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Critical Mass


I made a promise to Oleeb that if the administration balked in any way on going after the policy architects of Bush era torture that I would be more outraged than him... and here I am. I am angry, frustrated, and ashamed for my President. This is the second opportunity that this administration has failed to take advantage of the political moment to administer decisive change for this nation. Both of these failures will lead to an even greater consolidation of power into the hands of the worst people in the nation and guarantees a repeat of Bush in the not too distant future. I can only say that Obama must not be listening to his constituents nor international law, but instead to the entrenched powers that are making threats.

I have given President Obama a lot of leeway because history shows that this nation is an empire masquerading as a democracy. That being said, I could not expect miracles. I did, however, expect strategic and tactical skill and a degree of competence mixed with swagger. In my opinion, Obama was swept in on a tide of "Anything But Bush" (ABB). I base this opinion on the general trends in the primary and election campaigns. Whosever appeared to be making the least risky argument for ABB moved up in the polls, and whosoever sounded/acted like Bush or echoed Bush dogma moved down in the polls. The strongest McCain surge in the polls occurred after it appeared that he had broken away from Bush and had donned a maverick and reformer image that was going to be bolder than Bush around the world and fiscally reactionary at home. Once McCain inserted his foot in his mouth and echoed Bush tropes about the economic crisis (and once Palin showed herself as too green for world power), he slipped and never recovered. This is not to say that we are a "center right" nation, but we are a nation that prefers conventional wisdom. As long as the facts gently conform to the media viewpoint, a small majority will fall in line. It just happens to be that the media is a hard right factory that manufactures center right consent.

Any progressive or liberal tendencies are pruned by the ever-present and tacit threat of upheaval (catastrophe) if we the people listened to the better angels of our nature. This is where President Obama is uniquely qualified to upset the status quo. His skills at the bully pulpit are the strongest in over a generation of politicians... the strongest since Reagan. The opposition is in disarray and out of effective ideas or tactics. I won't go as far as to say he should run the cycle on the opposition, but he should at least swing the bat.

Instead, on a pair of key national crises, he has failed to seize the moment. The first was and is the economy. I can understand (and even sympathise) with hiring FRB whiz kids and Clinton era retreads. The idea makes a degree of sense. Larry Summers and the Rubin school helped create a legitimate economic tide of prosperity in the 90s. The head of the New York branch of the Fed is the closest connection to Wall Street without necessarily being Wall Street. But President Obama has invited almost no one else to the table, and their ideas are the only ideas being offered from the bully pulpit. And their ideas are being roundly and soundly criticised because they fail on multiple levels. The action is too temperate, and the ultimate solution is a reinflated housing market and megabanks passing toxic assets between themselves like a hot potatoe and subsisting on taxpayer largesse. Quite frankly, the Summers/Geithner plan is the biggest social welfare act in US history... over ten percent of the national GDP is now being used to subsidize less than a tenth of a percent of the national population who provide less capital than they are receiving. Further, the Summers/Geithner plan allows these few banks to collude with the Fed and guide fiscal policy in perpetuity. This will guarantee increased costs, a rise in poverty, and the continuation of debt servitude that has consumed the middle class.

Why didn't Obama invite other economic thinkers to the table? Why isn't there a commission running alongside the administration that can offer a broader pallet of ideas? Why is the administration slow-playing the public with grim projections on Sunday talk shows without the consistent refrain of sound ideas? That is criticism one.

The second criticism is over the refusal to prosecute anyone associated with violation of domestic and international crimes against humanity. There isn't even a hint of independence. There isn't any allusion to potentially hiring a special prosecutor to sift through the wreckage. There is no vocal reaching out to Congress to hold investigations. The administration wants to "look forward," but it sounds more and more like they intend to cover up a national trauma. At the very very least, an effort should and must be made to investigate the ineffectiveness of torture as an intelligence technique. Lord knows we have field evidence to prove this assertion. This could shut up the critics on the right who believe that torture somehow saves lives. Further, I personally accept nothing less than an expurgation of our national sin by holding the architects of the policy accountable. The Bush administration committed unspeakable acts to men and laws. They were allowed to make clear language that prohibits torture obscure. They made a mockery of meaning that will (mark my words) give rise to grosser abuses in the future. This has to be repudiated in public through investigation and prosecution. Nothing less will do. Otherwise, we will simply pass the baton to the next administration who may or may not respect the rule of law. In other words, every passing day is a roll of the dice so long as sweep this under the rug. We will be one terrorist incident away from reigniting the same amoral fervor.

In conclusion, I want to apologize to Oleeb and others who I disagreed with for the sake of context. I temper my outlook through (I hope) a sober appraisal of history... and with history as my guide I castigate the Obama administration for making a mess out of two critical areas. There is a line between pragmatism and the path of least resistance. Real pragmatism will make difficult choices if they are in the line of the best possible solution. A real pragmatist will expend political capital to achieve the best possible goal. The path of least resistance leads to a kakistocracy that is a threat to world stability. The path of least resistance will acquiesce to the entrenched powers and tremble before the intractable assault of the right wing media. The path of least resistance will rely on a forgiving populace and uses the benefit of the doubt as a crutch.

I will continue to give Obama time to work on cleaning the Aegean stables... but from now on whenever he neglects a mess or sweeps dirt under the nearest rug, I will not apologize for it. It has become obvious to me that he needs to be held accountable. The fact is that if were a nation of laws, what Obama has done by failing to hold the architects of torture policy accountable is an impeachable offense. Quite frankly, even with the threat of a rabid right wing, Obama needs to correct himself. I will not let the potential of the crazy right keep me from repudiating the weakness displayed by our leadership. I will now get off my soapbox. Have a nice day.


57 Comments

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left in final paragraph should read let. Spellcheck FAIL.

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You can fix a post. Go to blog now, then manage, then entries, then this entry - you'll get the same screen you used to write this blog. Fix and save!

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Thank you. Fixed.

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This is a beautiful blog! Well written. Great analysis. And above all, your humility here. I concur. Like you, I was willing to wait and see. But last night, when I realized that the architects too were being ruled out, I was outraged. Nevertheless, I remain hopeful that Holder will still act independently to appoint a Special Prosecutor, especially as he insisted at his confirmation hearings he had this to say:

I want to assure you and the American people that I will be an independent attorney general. I will be the people's lawyer.

You lay out the best case for what I'm calling for, which is that Holder either appoint or resign. (I'm going to link to your blog from mine.)


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But last night, when I realized that the architects too were being ruled out, I was outraged.

I know I haven't been up on things much, and I don't blog here any more, but...when did this happen?

Was there a statement made that included the memo writers and their superiors in Obama's non-prosecution guarantee?

From reading Obama's and Holder's statements last Thursday, I got the very strong sense that Addington, Yoo, Judge (*vomit*) Bybee and the rest would be hearing from Mr. Holder again.

I firmly believe that any prosecution that starts below the memo writers is a waste of taxpayer money and political capital. However, I share Zipperupus's insistence that the policymakers must be held to account for their actions. If that's off the table, that's where I get off the train.

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The Chief of Staff said that those who devised the torture policy would not be prosecuted either.

It looks like there is enough fuel in the tank to impeach Bybee... but Bybee was a crony who polished a turd. The real criminal is whoever shat the turd.

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Jesus Christ...I've been off doing the dad thing since Friday, and wasn't expecting a big news day yesterday. A quick tour on teh Google got me caught up, though.

Emanuel's statement is ridiculous. And it completely undercuts the statements made Thursday, which seemed specifically written to leave a very wide door open to going after the policymakers.

I can't imagine he would go on the talkingheadfest and say something like that without having an OK from POTUS, so I've got to join in with you on your second criticism. Time to crank up the noise machine.

(I don't co-sign as readily on crticism #1, but that's a different blog topic altogether.)

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I appreciate your co-signing on criticism #2... I also think we should have a blog on #1. I am interested in any and all reasonable opinions about this economy. I have been a doom-sayer since 2007, and my main point has always been that megabanks were issuing margin loans and this was bound to erupt. But the solution now that the worst has happened escapes me. If I were him (not possible, but I digress) I would have broken the megabanks apart, at the very least into commercial and investment banks, so as to drive a stake into the monter's heart.

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I confess to being a bit of a latecomer on the economy. Hindsight being what it is, I can see now that this sort of profligate behavior really has its roots in the government's response to the S&L failures. The banks have been operating for the last 20 years assuming that Uncle Sam (if not the FDIC, then Treasury or the Fed) will fix all their boo-boos if it gets to that point.

To my mind, the best thing to do would have been (a) no bailout of any kind, or (b) a hyper-regulated bailout from Day 1. Paulson's three-page masterpiece, of course, didn't fit either category. And it started us down this road we're on now.

I do believe the Geithner plan will work, IF (huge word, of course) everything is transparent. No hiding toxic assets. No sweeping problems under the rug. No winking or nudging while your old pals redesign their executive relaxation areas for $20 million. And enough with Wall Street's screwed-up compensation structure.

I'd feel better if there were job postings all over the country for forensic accountants to go work for the Treasury.

I completely agree about breaking the megabanks into commercial and investment units. AIG is NOT too big to fail. AIG is just too big. Too unwieldy to be managed properly. Pare it back to its core businesses - the ones that made it profitable before someone decided to get greedy.

Oh, and hand over Joseph Cassano to the nearest angry mob.

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Yes! Cassano should be held accountable. It seems to me that he is untouchable even by his own organization!

My problem with the Credit Default Swaps is that it is betting on the loser, which is something easily manipulated. It is much more difficult to win. Winning should be rewarded, not losing.

In the financial world a credit default swap suggests the money is lost twice! First by the organization that tanks, and then by the insurer who BAILS OUT the investor, who may not have been investing in the first place, but rather setting up companies to fail because those "investors" will be rewarded when the credit default swap kicks in!

It was said on talk radio, I do not know which program, that the banks holding Chrysler's credit are wanting Chrysler to fail because they believe they will get money from the credit default swap, or, even more probable in our fast-money nation, they will get money sooner. Even if it is less money, it would be money NOW, and that is all the matters to Wall Street, money now.

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What's worse is that CDS were unregulated so that multiple parties could take swaps out on a derivative, even if they were not the holder of said derivative. Therefore, if you take out fire insurance and 100 people bet that your house is going to catch on fire... who is to say that one of those 100 won't commit arson?

And there, in a nutshell, is why upwards of 4 trillion (according to today's IMF estimate) vanished into unaccountability wonderland.

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Boyd,

' and I don't blog here any more, but...'

Sorry to go off main topic, but please resume posting your terrific blogs here! PLEASE!

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Here is the video of Emmanuel from yesterday. This was my tipping point!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cvp-7YOtRI&feature=player_embedded

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Zipperupus

(thunk)

You totally blow me away. You rawk!!!

Quite frankly, the Summers/Geithner plan is the biggest social welfare act in US history... over ten percent of the national GDP is now being used to subsidize less than a tenth of a percent of the national population who provide less capital than they are receiving.

Funny, dat, by the same banksters and goons crying for SS to be dissolved in favor of private accounts... insanity? Oh, yez.

The Attorney Generals office should be VERY busy right now. I have already written, but I'll write again, and again, and again.

The bankster welfare was bad enough, but letting torturers get away with destroying everything we, as Americans, have to hold our heads up high?

UNACCEPTABLE.

Unacceptable, President Obama. We need to change his mind. Now. This blog would be an excellent addition to any communication.

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Get out of jail free with Holden General Welfare!

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No need to apologize to me at all.

Of course I agree with what you're saying. But what you've written here is put very, very well. I hope it will influence others. Hihgly Rec'd!

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In the interest of fairness, I took you and others to task because I knew it would not be an easy task to not only undo Bush but in many other areas restore our government. My hope was that there would be little positive steps that would build into a major overhaul (the so-called 11-dimensional chess strategy). I didn't view Obama as a progressive champion, but certainly a Consitutional scholar with a pragmatic attitude... someone who would attempt to create and enforce regulations and promote transparency. The last month has disabused me of that notion...

Anyhow, thank you for being gracious.

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We seem to be walking many of the same paths of late.

There is really only one single "justification" I can come up with for the latest outrage and that is that they didn't say they wouldn't go after those ultimately responsible, just those who carried things out based on orders from on high.

However, even that though isn't enough to dissuade my mind from thinking perhaps we were duped or he was simply unprepared to hit DC like a the ton of bricks he promised. Either way, our pens must remain pointed and persistent if we hope to force an ounce of progressive change from a man who seem predisposed to such, even if he hasn't made the moves we would have expected.

Great blog, Zipper. Semper Fi.

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Great post! I can't believe so many, apparently, are just going to accept this decision. I really believed there would be huge opposition, at least as large as poll numbers. It just sets up so much doubt about so many things. Some of the bloom is fading. What a crying shame!

"Now, if I found that there were High officals who knowingly broke excisting laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then basic principle of our Constitution is nobody is above the law." Barack Obama.

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Contact the White House at:

White House

and repudiate the Bush/Obama approach to torture and violation of law.

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Or call:

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461

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Thanks, CT. Here's what I just sent--it isn't eloquent, but I hope it's adequate:

Dear President Obama,

Recently you have stated that you want to 'look forward' on the torture issue. And recently it was reported that Chief of Staff Rahm indicated Sunday that the White House "does not intend to prosecute Bush administration officials who devised the policies that led to the harsh interrogation of suspected terrorists."

To me, this is absolutely counter to the presidential oath that was sworn in January and seems counter to international law and my own judgment. We absolutely must find out all that was carried out systematically, find who was responsible, and bring all to justice (whether they are acquitted or no). The recently released memos let us know that crimes were committed and that they were sanctioned. To discourage or squelch investigations into our nation's role in torture is wrong.

We are a nation of laws--which are useless if these laws are not upheld with rigor. I ask that that Rahm's opinion not be sanctioned and that Attorney General Eric Holder continue to be allowed independence in dealing with this mess.

As an American, I feel personally affronted that more is not being done to swiftly put torture behind us in a straightforward and judicial manner. I do not want torture to be swept under the rug, it just leaves the rug all bulgy and the dirt is still there. There must be accountability.

Sincerely,


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I wish I'd saved mine. That was good of you.

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heh, I think that the Eric Holder part was, um, influenced by your blog. ;)

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I told them how for the last 5 years my top issue has been the Rule of Law, Constitution. Then talked about how important it is that everyone be held to the same legal standards, etc. That Obama took an oath to uphold the Constitution, that failing to investigate torture undermines the Rule of Law, etc.

I'm touched you got some ideas from me. I truly am.

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As a scientist, I'm always building upon others' ideas. Only occasionally do I think about how indebted I am to others' thoughts and epiphanies.

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Thank you for sending that in.

I'm working on mine right now.

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I think a blog for everyone to post their letters with the links on where to send them would be good... I think I will do that tomorrow.

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Thanks for this, Zipperupus. Very well said. And I hope I haven’t sounded too sanctimonious in arguing about these issues (it’s easy to come off that way without intending it). Also, thanks for “kakistocracy” but not for making me have to look it up. :)

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You always make me think and consider whenever you present your opinions... With zero sanctimony.

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Thank you for your thoughtful post, Z. I've been mulling over my thoughts on this for several days.

I was dismayed, but understood, in a way, the position that Obama stated last week: that those who inflicted torture (or in the odious euphemistic phrasing, "practiced harsh interrogation techniques") would not be held responsible because they thought they were consistent with a legal opinion. I didn't agree with it, but I could understand the argument. I don't agree with it because the "I was following orders" position removes any responsibility from the individual using the argument.

At the same time, as a psychologist, I understand the powerful influences that others can have on one's behavior.

But over this weekend, with the very clear (at least to me) statements by Emmanuel, I realized that this Administration is unwilling to hold anyone responsible for these acts. I tried to make sense of that, as well. As in "Well, at least we're not using torture anymore, right?"

It's not working any longer. Particularly after reading these words of Obama today:

"I believe our nation is stronger and more secure when we deploy the full measure of both our power and the power of our values, including the rule of law. I know I can count on you to do exactly that," he said.

Can we count on this president to deploy the rule of law in this instance? With each day, it becomes evident that we cannot.

Thanks for the post.

I wish I had something more constructive to add than the phone numbers and contact information I posted above, but I don't.

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There really isn't anything more constructive at this time. We need to make our opinion heard.

The problem is that we have not repudiated torture both morally and realistically. This needs to be done for posteristy. Otherwise, the word will mean less than it used to, and we will persist in the myth that torture extracts life-saving intelligence.

Torture extracts confessions. That is all torture is good for. Ths history of torture tells us nothing less. If you want to stovepipe intel and reinforce a police state, torture is the way and the means to achieve it. Torture is useless otherwise... compounded with the immorality.

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It's a time of grieving. Your comment echoes how I've been feeling. It's a sense of loss... of something slipping away. Something we worked so hard to grasp, want so much to hang onto.

I for one will not give up trying to get things right. But it's a sad, dark time. Mustering hope is work now.

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Well, recently there was a protest for taxes while arguably we have one of the least taxing tax burdens in decades.

Could the issue of torture, a real issue and not just a winger taunt, get more people protesting? Could Democrats and Republicans together demand that the rule of law be fulfilled? Could many of Obama's supporters protesting his administration policies wake him up? I'm not someone who likes to protest. I've only done it once or twice and usually because I just wanted to see what it was like. I'd rather write a letter or email or bitch on a blog.

But doesn't this issue seem to be one that is important? If me, someone who absolutely hated knocking on doors for Obama last October could actually protest something, would others protest as well?

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People think torture works.

They think of torture, and images of Keifer Sutherland and the entire series "The Unit" flood their minds. Those manly men, protecting us poor citizens from those awful bad guys. That's the problem.

Those screwballs were willing to "protest" on April 15th because they felt, feel, threatened by Obama, despite all evidence to the contrary (I noticed the increase in my paycheck in April--I couldn't have been the only one, right?)

But torture? That's what we do to bad guys. We're becoming a dehumanized citizenry. Add to that the fact that cable news has been talking about a) the danger done to our country by releasing the torture memos b) the freaking handshake ALL WEEKEND LONG, rather than the immorality and illegality of torture? We're in trouble.

But keep sending those letters.

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I think we're going to stay in trouble unless we can figure out how to form a cohesive faction to stand together on a few core issues like civil liberties, consumer rights, employment rights, privacy rights, universal healthcare, etc. We need a left-leaning version of populism. Neither party is representing the middle class and neither gives a hoot about a whole range of human rights issues that impact ordinary people.

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We want our rights: civil rights, health care rights, consumer rights, employment rights, privacy rights.

How's that?

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I'll bring the tea.

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If we called it "the rights party" - some people of the right might get confused and vote for us!

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Bank robbery work too!

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Correction: Bank robbery works too!

(better than my typing!)

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NY Fed is 33 Liberty, 3 blks from Wall St. I think your financial managment work must mean you know the Fed is private -- more Wall than Mall. Fuckers. Why do they have to put us against the wall like this? I don't mind if other people are super rich as long as I have enough to get by.

But I guess a lot of people just are not good at assessing limits or proportions. Apparently normal families in Dubai take total advantage of the domestic slaves from 3d world countries.

(http://www.alternet.org/audits/136877/dubai's_lesson_to_america:_how_the_middle_east's_shangrai_la_became_a_hell_on_earth/)

People I could probably imagine myself socially identifying with sequester their nannies' passports, pay them only at the end of the multi-year contract, and make them work 16/7. It's quite distressing to wonder how much of the progressive population would really be any different under the same circumstances......

Best Wat

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"The second criticism is over the refusal to prosecute anyone associated with violation of domestic and international crimes against humanity."

Obama has not refused to prosecute on a blanket basis. He clearly indicated that conduct which went out of bounds was subject to investigations and prosecution. Let's look at the alleged crimes on a spectrum and go after the worst ones for sure (homicide?).

Apparently the FBI and CIA disagree about whether enhanced interrogations produced any useful results. That's a curious state of affairs. What would the FBI know first hand about what went on in CIA interrogations? Is the CIA flat out lying, exaggerating, or what?

Let's also be clear about the difference between crimes and non-moral conduct (human rights abuses).

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So true. And as of last evening (Monday) Eric Holder hasn't ruled out a special independent prosecutor, both the House and Senate (Dianne Feinstein's statement) are signaling something else is coming down the pike.

To the rest, who are calling for "leftist" "rights" tea parties, I'd caution you'd be brewing a rather weak cup of tea, losing your focus and misdirecting your outrage. To start complaining about all your "rights" being trampled sounds to me a lot like the teabaggers of last week. Mixed messages. Poor results.

None of us receive the intelligence briefings or any other background info the President does. So it is possible, his moves are not based on placating you, but a larger field of responsibility.

As I continue to say, and history bears out, Americans don't charge other Americans -- especially those in the upper echelons -- with war crimes or human rights violations. Which is not to say we condone it, but we do very little about it.

Sometimes, pragmatism is the right path to take.

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History certainly bears you out. Powell's hand in the My Lai coverup is a classic piece... along with the Cambodian bombing operations, the use of white phosporous and napalm, the clandestine use of "zippo raids" as SOP in south and north Vietnamese villages...

And, of course, the "School of the Americas," and its use as a training facility for every last right wing paramilitary that committed human rights atrocities on the US dime throughout the last several decades.

What sets this instance apart is the fact that the memo release is extraordinarily recent. The last document release in my memory was the release of classified documents regarding the cozy relationship between the CIA, ITT, and the dictatorship of Pinochet. There was a clear violation of international law regarding sovereign nations, and it also set up a clear need for similiar document releases regarding other South American nations, specifically El Salvador. There was also the juicy tidbit that ITT helped funnel money into the CIA clandestine budget which was a clear collusion of business interests with federal power. But it was flushed down the memory hole.

This is the first truly recent release of unlawful sensitive information since the Pentagon papers... therefore, the SOP should not apply and pragmatism would dictate that we should pounce on this opportunity to reform SOP once and for all.

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"unlawful sensitive information"

Oh? Aren't you assuming the conclusion here? At least please be specific about which memo in particular you think is most egregious. I've only looked carefully at Bybee to Rizzo, and casually at Bybee to Gonzalez.

If you include either of those, please be specific about what's unlawful about them.

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Or at least being sensible and rational!

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All of 24 hours has passed, and it seems Obama may not be such a "disgrace"....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/us/politics/21intel.html?hp

Key part, where aides didn't rule out the prosecution of torture memo authors after all...


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I appreciate the walkback, but still... the limitation to authors is something I addressed earlier. Bybee polished a turd, but someone else crapped the turd. I am all for getting the legal beagle who elasticised pre-existing law, but ultimately it was Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld who requested that their special little cronies do the dirty work.

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I hear ya, I just think we need to give this some time...And I do see the value in pushing from our side of the fence.

I just don't want you going over into hyperbole. Obama does not = Bush. Yet.

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I only say this because you are now on record as wanting to impeach Obama..."if we were a Nation of Laws".

I know you're upset, and on your soapbox, but why cross over into nuttiness?

Impeachment isn't a legal proceeding, it's a political one. Remember the "House Managers"? You want Eric Kantor up there prosecuting Obama? You're off your tree with that kinda stuff.

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I say "off your tree" with all friendliness, and thought I should note that I enjoy argument, and always appreciate your substantial knowlege on these subjects....

Feel free to insult me in good humor. Please.

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I am not advocating impeachment... I used the "if" in a rather Clintonian sense. I fully support the Obama Presidency, and I don't stand behind an impeachment. I was only saying that obstructing the prosecution of international crimes against humanity would fall under high crimes and misdemeanors. In other words, I was raising the red flag to let readers know just how serious the situation is if we actually behaved as nation like we pretend to the rest of the world.

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Further, I'm not insulted by just about anything anyone could possibly say about me... my big peeve are military issues and the exploitation of veterans for political points by both the right and left. That is the only time you will see me take umbrage. Otherwise, blast away. It is all in the spirit of debate.

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I'm curious...

How can they charge the authors of the opinions.

They were 'Opinions' which could have been rejected by the administration... in which case no harm, no foul...

But these opinions were accepted... I'd say, at this point, those who implemented these 'opinions' as policy would be the criminals...

:confused:

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I'm quite upset about the way things have been going... Between "Sovereign Immunity" and THIS, I'm downright pissed.

Here's the trouble as I see it: Re-Election.

This concerns me for a few reasons...

1) With Obama's rush to the "Center" and Bush coverups... I fear he'll lose the Liberal Dems... You know? Those dems that were MOST Excited about him... those dems that hit the streets going door to door.. Those dems that gave a LOT of time and effort throughout the primaries and the general election... He's alienating them now, and without them, he might not be re-elected...

B) HOWEVER... the Repugs are in disarray and are unlikely to have a strong candidate or message when that time comes... So, Obama might just win re-election anyway...

III) If the economy is recovering and people have a few bucks in their pockets, then most will simply forget the crimes and rights violations... and they'll happily sanction all of President Obama's CRAP by voting for him again...

So... 2 of my 3 scenarios have Obama winning re-election...

What bugs me is that his re-election will be tacit approval for this garbage... We will be so far removed from "W" by then... other problems will have popped up... and most won't give a rats ass about any of it... Poof! Gone! Just like that...


Oh... the rights will have still been lost... but who cares?!?!? I got a new flat screen!

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Zipperupus

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