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Universal Heath care petition!


I would encourage all of you guys a TPM who believe single payer is the right way to go to sign this petition to show your support for it.



http://sanders.senate.gov/petitions/index.cfm?uid=7fd59f2e-88e1-477a-8eaf-762a5b050809


23 Comments

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Done!

And recommended!

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Thanks Zeno. Signed it this morning.

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Thank You, oleeb!

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Signed and highly rec'd...

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I don't know if its true not but someone told me that close to 40% of health care cost in the US is profit for the industry and Wall St.
If that number is even half correct it's outrageous.

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I've heard that about 25-30% is excess costs plus profits, compared to costs of running Medicare. The includes advertising and other thing Medicare doesn't spend much on. I don't know if it includes HMOs or just "insurance".

Keep in mind that profit compared to equity is very different than profit compared to gross income (premiums plus investment income).

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You sign?

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Huh?

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Oh, the petition. No. I like some things about single payer but I don't reach the level of

"believe single payer is the right way to go"

Call me agnostic. I have signed other similar petitions this year...

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""I don't reach the level of"

"believe single payer is the right way to go""

And what is the better way to go? Or better yet what should health care look like ideally? What should it be about to you?

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I've been getting around to that in my own blogs which have not stirred much interest.

I have no reason to commit to one method of reform, so far, so I'm keeping an open mind and trying to sift through the chaff coming from all sides for the wheat which might be there so as to have a sound opinion.

Single-payer runs up against the distinction of Uniformity vs. Diversity, in addition to Big Government concerns. It offers reduced overhead but the actual savings are not clear (could be as little as under 10% or as much as over 25%) of current overall costs. Medicare is hardly perfect, and studies have shown that over 90% of insured Americans are reasonably happy with what they have.

I think I understand Obama about "single-payer is nice but 'you caint git thar from here'.

I think single-payer is not reform but revolution, in the USA. As such only violence (virtual, economic, or otherwise) is likely to get it implemented. It might warrant a Constitutional Amendement, depending on which flavor of single-payer is under consideration.

2% employee + 7% payroll tax is 9%. What controls costs to keep those from rising? What rations health care which is current rationed by price of premiums, deductibles, and denials of service? Is is National, Federal, State, or what? Citizens only, or anyone at all?

I'm not sure the problem of moral hazard is that significant, but of course checks and balances are necessary to deal with criminal cheating or frauds. And profit motives are stifled by excess uniformity (while of course excess diversity generates waste and is no guarantee of quality either).

I think single-payer is really socialized medicine with a facade of "it's only social insurance".

Things like that.

Thanks for asking.

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"I think single-payer is really socialized medicine with a facade of "it's only social insurance".

nonsense, single payer is the government collecting the insurance money and paying the doctors without taking a profit for doing so.
It's non-profit insurance.

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Signed Zeno, thanks. I've still got my issues with Howie Dean, but I so wish Obama nominated him as Sec. of HHS. I just contributed to DFA to fight for preserving the public option. Single payer would be awesome, but not having a public option would be a giveaway to the insurance companies of epic proportions.

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Signed, sealed and delivered.

Zeno, who says blogging is a waste of time when you deliver stuff like this!

Thank you so much.

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ZoC,
Signed, called his office in DC to tell him about "The Pain Tax" and also Rec'd!
THANKS for letting "U.S." know!

If you are interested in what the pain tax is look here:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/tmcpac/2009/01/how-many-people-do-you-know-th.php

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Signed, thank you!

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Signed!!!!! Rec'd!!!!!!! But are they listening? I hope so!

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Petitions are good, individual FAXes are better. Encourage everyone you know to FAX your elected official. My recent blog has some pointers.

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Thanks, and thanks to Bernie Sanders.

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eds, said something which got my attention up the comment que. It got me thinking about why I support single payer and nothing else.

The gist of the situation for me is that we are a community, a society if you will, and as such we have a responsibility for the well being of everyone and thus the preservation of the community itself. Each of us should contribute what we are able to a pool that pays for the care of all, in the same way our taxes pay for our defense. The current "private" system leaves health care to those who can afford it only. This allows those who can to only take responsibility for themselves. The power of the collective will is felt through democracy itself. The exercise of democracy is being denied through the force of financial power. The health and well being of the community as represented by our taxes is suffering as a result. No private health system or private army can ever represent the will of the community because it has no responsibility to do so.

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Do you consider yourself a communist? Your paragraph makes it seem so.

I do agree that "the force of financial power" speaks loudly in DC (and in state capitols), but I have to wonder why consumers (and employers who offer a finite selection of plans) don't speak loudly with their pocketbooks.

It's been suggested that there are cartels operating behind the facade of 1000s of "insurance" companies. Got anything on those?

I've probably spent under $1000 on health care in the past 25years, not counting a car accident for which I negotiated a decent settlement from the insurance company on my own. So I am not in touch with the realities of health care costs except via horror stories and the like. While I have libertarian tendencies, I also have socialist tendencies and consider myself a progressive (and except for fiscal stuff usually a liberal).

I don't believe in the Collective except as 1) a statistical ensemble of individuals and 2) a [usually] muddled notion in people's psyches which can range from a delusion to a basis for lemming-like behavior.


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A communists expects to take all property for the use of the community. I do not. I see my views a close to Socialism. I believe that as a community, or society if you will, we all have a shared responsibility to look after the health of everyone in the community. I believe there are certain services that are essential to a functioning community such as access to fresh water, food and energy production which should be treated like communal property and regulated to the benefit of the community. The idea of communal space is not Communist in the ridged sense you describe. Communism in the idealistic form you describe is complete abdication of private property and enterprise. Please, explain to me why it has to be an either or dichotomy. Democracy is shared power and shared responsibility. Democracy is a form of socialism. Capitalism as it is practiced in the US is anti-democratic and leads to autocratic rule.

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"I don't believe in the Collective except as 1) a statistical ensemble of individuals and 2) a [usually] muddled notion in people's psyches which can range from a delusion to a basis for lemming-like behavior."
It is not necessary to believe in the power of collective will or responsibility. All idealism operates inside a conversation between people. Community in that it exist at all exists in the shared language and concerns of the people. The separateness of the elite is at the root of the disillusion of the community and the root of the current conflict. Democracy has failed because the power of the community's will has been usurped by the power of money and high status. That is the result of unfettered Capitalism.

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