Well, it was fun... sort of
To all of TPM:
Well, it happened: I finally am fed up. This comment from Miguelitoh2o was the last straw.
It's obvious to me that it will be impossible for me to get around this idea that I am someone else. When renaye started posting to my blog, I didn't know what to do. If I responded people would think I was generating some heat. If I didn't, people would assume I'm ignoring her to "ignore myself". I chose not to respond. I figured less crap on a blog is better. (Yes, Old Grouch, that comment is aimed at you...)
Migeluetoh2o claims to have done "forensic typography" to determine that I am renaye. quinn told me that the pig was the "best and the brightest". Well, the pig is hardly either and he got this one very wrong. But now I saw that between the TheraP cadre and the pig, I'm never going to be heard on suspicions, etc. Why bother? I figured I'd have heat with some of my views, but never over who I am.
TPM is obviously a nice closed society and the majority want to keep it that way. (Different rules apply to different posters.) It's obvious that many are older, retireed people from the type of comments I've seen regarding technology. Cranky older retireed people who now, after years of laissez faire politics have finally woken up to the idea that they are about to be screwed. Guess what? Using the Democratic Party to turn the ship around at this point is too late. It's like the Titanic trying to avoid an iceburg... by the time you see it, it's over.
You'll figure this out soon enough. But by then you will be missing the rise of the new party. Just as the Repulicans came out of the Whigs, the Democrats are about to give birth to a new party.
So remain insulated. There is a cancer here: anyone that comes on with different ideas will be labeled a troll. Because the ruling class here isn't about discussing politics. It's about finding something to do during the day and making friends. And finding a group where you can feel "smart" because everyone agrees with everyone else. (Yes, I've heard that not all of you disagree... but the differences that you talk about are small indeed. There are a few people on the outside, it's clear who they are, but they are in the minority. And the rest try to squelch them at every turn.)
Most of you aren't any more open minded than Republicans. Talking a game is one thing, acting on the talk is another.
I know that most of you will feel because I'm leaving, I must be renaye. That's exactly the small thinking that gives you the stupid idea that if I don't buy into the Democrats, I must be Republican. Next time you wonder about why the poor don't pied piper along with you middle class folks under the Democrat banner, it's because of this: you have more to lose than me. You need my vote to keep your middle class lifestyle. I'm poor, I have no where to go but up. That's why I can be for real change and you can't. So, why don't you pied piper along with me for Socialism, next time.
You Democrats vote out of fear. Why don't you vote out of principle? I've heard alot about Clinton and his third way. Guess what? You are ALL "third way". You've triangulated yourself to becoming the GOP lite. You have no point of view. And that's why you have a hard time getting elected. If you were savvy you would know that this is not a resurgence of the Democratic Party... it's a repudiation of the Republican Party. And that means just as soon as the Republican Party regroups (and they are good at that), you will continue to drift to nowhere. And you deserve to drift to nowhere. Because the country is bankrupt. The best we can do is wipe the slate clean. And no one with any money at all wants that to happen. That's why the poor are the Socialists and you are not. You want to preserve your capital. But the corporations really own the capital. So you are stuck with government by the corporation.
You will deserve what you get for government. You deserve what you get here at TPM. Talk among yourselves while the Titanic sinks.
Some last thoughts:
Marquis, CVill Dem, TheraP, Barefoot and the rest of the ruling class: enjoy your closed society. You aren't about new ideas, you certainly aren't about kindness to people. You may cut checks for charity, but there is a lot of "needs testing" when one shows up here, isn't there? Well, it's Josh Marshall's board, not yours. You like to think you are kind, gentle souls? Hardly. But then again, Hitler was a vegetarian and little kids loved him. It's what you do to strangers who have different views that counts. If you look at our exchanges, all of you made things very personal very quickly. Yes, I responded in kind. But I started off by talking issues, not personalites. You couldn't do that. My favorite case was the way I was pilloried on Barefoots blog...and then the "kind" lady who ran the blog wouldn't stick to principle over friendship... she lectured me, not the Old Grouch.
quinn, oleeb, Jason, artappraiser and the other kindly souls who seem to really want to talk politics: I thank you for whatever fun I had at TPM. oleeb, I'm hoping you continue to espouse Zinn (and despite what I've read here, everyone should all go back to Chomsky too... after all, they are good friends!) Thanks to mjeffn and Hillarym99 for following me. I know that was brave to do in this climate. Good luck in your discussions. I wish you the best in dealing with the ruling cadre here.
Stillidealistic: I'm really, really sorry about the loss of your child. That's something that really does change one. As I said, there is nothing I can teach you... but hopefully now that you know about Zinn and Chomsky, you can get to them. oleeb can help you there.
renaye: congratulations. You really put a cancer on this board. Your influence is now spread to not only disrupting blogs, but disrupting the community at large. I hope you are happy. Enjoy your laugh. Karma is a bitch.
And to Miguelitoh2o: you aren't as smart as you think. In fact you are rather dumb. Anyone who reads my posts and renaye's and determines we are the same deserves the type of board they get.
Have at it people. I'm interested in breaking the ruling class' grip on America, not the ruling class' grip on the TPM boards. For what it's worth, from where I sit, the two aren't that different: they are in it for themselves. The big difference is that the ruling class here is ruling... an Internet board.
Well, it happened: I finally am fed up. This comment from Miguelitoh2o was the last straw.
It's obvious to me that it will be impossible for me to get around this idea that I am someone else. When renaye started posting to my blog, I didn't know what to do. If I responded people would think I was generating some heat. If I didn't, people would assume I'm ignoring her to "ignore myself". I chose not to respond. I figured less crap on a blog is better. (Yes, Old Grouch, that comment is aimed at you...)
Migeluetoh2o claims to have done "forensic typography" to determine that I am renaye. quinn told me that the pig was the "best and the brightest". Well, the pig is hardly either and he got this one very wrong. But now I saw that between the TheraP cadre and the pig, I'm never going to be heard on suspicions, etc. Why bother? I figured I'd have heat with some of my views, but never over who I am.
TPM is obviously a nice closed society and the majority want to keep it that way. (Different rules apply to different posters.) It's obvious that many are older, retireed people from the type of comments I've seen regarding technology. Cranky older retireed people who now, after years of laissez faire politics have finally woken up to the idea that they are about to be screwed. Guess what? Using the Democratic Party to turn the ship around at this point is too late. It's like the Titanic trying to avoid an iceburg... by the time you see it, it's over.
You'll figure this out soon enough. But by then you will be missing the rise of the new party. Just as the Repulicans came out of the Whigs, the Democrats are about to give birth to a new party.
So remain insulated. There is a cancer here: anyone that comes on with different ideas will be labeled a troll. Because the ruling class here isn't about discussing politics. It's about finding something to do during the day and making friends. And finding a group where you can feel "smart" because everyone agrees with everyone else. (Yes, I've heard that not all of you disagree... but the differences that you talk about are small indeed. There are a few people on the outside, it's clear who they are, but they are in the minority. And the rest try to squelch them at every turn.)
Most of you aren't any more open minded than Republicans. Talking a game is one thing, acting on the talk is another.
I know that most of you will feel because I'm leaving, I must be renaye. That's exactly the small thinking that gives you the stupid idea that if I don't buy into the Democrats, I must be Republican. Next time you wonder about why the poor don't pied piper along with you middle class folks under the Democrat banner, it's because of this: you have more to lose than me. You need my vote to keep your middle class lifestyle. I'm poor, I have no where to go but up. That's why I can be for real change and you can't. So, why don't you pied piper along with me for Socialism, next time.
You Democrats vote out of fear. Why don't you vote out of principle? I've heard alot about Clinton and his third way. Guess what? You are ALL "third way". You've triangulated yourself to becoming the GOP lite. You have no point of view. And that's why you have a hard time getting elected. If you were savvy you would know that this is not a resurgence of the Democratic Party... it's a repudiation of the Republican Party. And that means just as soon as the Republican Party regroups (and they are good at that), you will continue to drift to nowhere. And you deserve to drift to nowhere. Because the country is bankrupt. The best we can do is wipe the slate clean. And no one with any money at all wants that to happen. That's why the poor are the Socialists and you are not. You want to preserve your capital. But the corporations really own the capital. So you are stuck with government by the corporation.
You will deserve what you get for government. You deserve what you get here at TPM. Talk among yourselves while the Titanic sinks.
Some last thoughts:
Marquis, CVill Dem, TheraP, Barefoot and the rest of the ruling class: enjoy your closed society. You aren't about new ideas, you certainly aren't about kindness to people. You may cut checks for charity, but there is a lot of "needs testing" when one shows up here, isn't there? Well, it's Josh Marshall's board, not yours. You like to think you are kind, gentle souls? Hardly. But then again, Hitler was a vegetarian and little kids loved him. It's what you do to strangers who have different views that counts. If you look at our exchanges, all of you made things very personal very quickly. Yes, I responded in kind. But I started off by talking issues, not personalites. You couldn't do that. My favorite case was the way I was pilloried on Barefoots blog...and then the "kind" lady who ran the blog wouldn't stick to principle over friendship... she lectured me, not the Old Grouch.
quinn, oleeb, Jason, artappraiser and the other kindly souls who seem to really want to talk politics: I thank you for whatever fun I had at TPM. oleeb, I'm hoping you continue to espouse Zinn (and despite what I've read here, everyone should all go back to Chomsky too... after all, they are good friends!) Thanks to mjeffn and Hillarym99 for following me. I know that was brave to do in this climate. Good luck in your discussions. I wish you the best in dealing with the ruling cadre here.
Stillidealistic: I'm really, really sorry about the loss of your child. That's something that really does change one. As I said, there is nothing I can teach you... but hopefully now that you know about Zinn and Chomsky, you can get to them. oleeb can help you there.
renaye: congratulations. You really put a cancer on this board. Your influence is now spread to not only disrupting blogs, but disrupting the community at large. I hope you are happy. Enjoy your laugh. Karma is a bitch.
And to Miguelitoh2o: you aren't as smart as you think. In fact you are rather dumb. Anyone who reads my posts and renaye's and determines we are the same deserves the type of board they get.
Have at it people. I'm interested in breaking the ruling class' grip on America, not the ruling class' grip on the TPM boards. For what it's worth, from where I sit, the two aren't that different: they are in it for themselves. The big difference is that the ruling class here is ruling... an Internet board.
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Awwww . . .
It's just those narcissistic baby boomers that are out to get ya'...
Hahahahaha . . .
~OGD~
February 2, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cool SRY. I stopped reading after the first sentence or two, when I figured you're giving up here. Buh-Bye!
February 2, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cool SRY. Don't let the door hit you and all. Regarding: "Anyone who reads my posts and renaye's and determines we are the same deserves the type of board they get", I would counter that anyone who goes through all of your COMMENTS from the last 24 hours and fails to see the two of you as one and the same, may be "rather dumb", as you say. You would need to be a bit more clever rhan you seem to be to be able to maintain the fiction of two, (or more), identities without leaving tracks. Buh-Bye!
February 2, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS - REC'D! YIKES!
February 2, 2009 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
One other thing for the rest of you 'Forensic Typographers' out there. Please don't reveal your methods. It's better to pose it as an intelligence test for this creature. Chances are it won't pass the test.
February 2, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lighten up. The end is near and we are all looking for redemption.
Get over it and post some stunning political epiphany. Its ok with me.
You know how to read and write.
Write something. There are hundreds of people here. Some never even comment. I think it is fun.
February 2, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well Yikes, that was certainly fast. Perhaps a bit too fast in judgment, but that's your call. Getting the kinds of changes we want - whether in life, or here - takes time. But since patience is not at all one of my virtues, I'll just pass it on as a useful thought for the both of us.
Other than that, all I've got in the way of advice are the parting words of Bill Hicks, "It's just a ride." Or, as a perhaps wiser man used to say to us.... "It's all in the mind." Though I suspect you know that better than I. ;-)
Good luck, Y.
February 2, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh, nail on the head there, quinn.
=D
February 2, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could be. But it took me 'til this morning. Howard Zinn? Who knew dude was gettin' so much love round these parts?
And, also
February 2, 2009 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yez, the TheraP hunting tipped me off.
:(
Inappropriate, and malicious.
Hmmm, condescending, arrogant, and spiteful... Survey says!
February 2, 2009 9:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting.
February 2, 2009 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bummer. I missed all the excitement, but I loved your last post.
February 2, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why?
February 2, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a stand-alone post, it's nicely done: It's provocative, succinct, and incorporates Zinn and Chomsky in a single breath.
But come on, YIKES! is right. I know from my own experience: I've been labeled a Rethuglican on these boards plenty of times simply for defending Hillary Clinton. I've been called a McCain troll when I was critical of Obama's move to the right after the primaries. I've literally been called Billy Glad's butt buddy when I participated in Billy's comment threads. Hell, Jason Everett Miller even called me a neocon when we first interacted.
I haven't followed these threads much lately, but YIKES! reminds me of Jacob Freeze.
February 2, 2009 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno gasket. I remember those times, and I was labeled both a hillary troll for defending her, and an Obama troll for defending him. That goes with the territory. As for Billy, well he took care of hisself, and no one knows better than I do what it means to step over the line. Sure I defended him, but only when he was right. We all do that. Sometimes with consequences.
This garbage is overly personal, spiteful, and mean. This jerk is an attention whore and was from hour one. It was an old poster with a score to settle. They mainly made themselves into a parody of a screaming 2 year old. Billy wouldn't do this. Ever. He has class.
Angry? Heh. Sure, we all are. Spite is a whole 'nother thing entirely. It's gross. And inappropriate, and I for one, don't appreciate it.
February 2, 2009 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least no one called you a butt buddy! LOL!
But, yes, I agree that you have put up with a lot of grief here, Bwak.
In any case, I don't know who this YIKES! person is, but he/she has certainly succeeded in stealing the spotlight. So, unfortunately, mission accomplished.
Me? I'm gonna go finish that Chomsky article now before I move on to a four-part series on Pakistan recommended in a post by artappraiser. I'm in a reading mood rather than a fighting one.
Ciao, my feathered friend. ;-)
February 2, 2009 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Someone called you a butt buddy?
ack!
Letme at 'em
=D
February 2, 2009 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, gasket, YIKES! isn't complaining about anything you haven't brought up numerous times yourself. You've long been a critic of the echo chamber mentality that can sometimes creep up around here over certain topics.
February 3, 2009 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're right, jason. In fact I'm totally in agreement with YIKES! about that.
Hey, look: I'm even agreeing with you! ;-)
February 3, 2009 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, damn, that almost never happens! We should start looking for other signs of the coming Apocalypse.
February 3, 2009 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm putting you two in the sub-echo chamber if you keep this up.
Double-quick now, start disagreeing again.
February 3, 2009 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Butt out, you neocon troll! Who made you the hall monitor?
February 3, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I am busy disagreeing with Loki right now.
February 3, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know if YIKES! is renaye or not and I don't really care. I read the whole post and I agree with much of what is said. It has gotten pretty boring around here; everybody being so agreeable and complimentary to each other and all. Let's all get in a big circle, turn to your left, pat the person in front of you on the back while saying "Good Job".
It's getting to be a great big circle jerk and not just a little nauseating; but a lot.
February 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. And you're a bastard-prick-fart-smeller.
Now that that's over with, how's about some cookies? ;-)
Seriously, this stage'll pass, and the whole show here will see lots of new people coming in, new debates. Obama's still honeymooning, nobody's had any time to see whether his new proposals will work, the GOP's in disarray, etc.
My guess is that his proposals won't/can't do as much as we & the economy are gonna need. If that happens, we're gonna see the Republicans gunning for him... many Dems wanting to rally behind the flag... lots of people proposing new stuff, outside the bounds of the existing debate, but nobody clear on whether they support Obama & the Dems or not.
I figger the sheer confusion should be interesting, as well as producing lots of opportunities for creative name-calling. I've already got "Wobblie-Palinite," "Dodd-Trot" and "Britney-Hillary-Fascist" trademarked & ready to go.
February 2, 2009 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like cookies. :)
February 2, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh...and renaye...FUCK YOU! EAT SHIT AND DIE!
February 2, 2009 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
In what respect, Charlie?
February 2, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boyd, you missed the context here. Comments must always be taken in context. The fact is that these two lads (if there are two of them and if they are lads) do not have much respect at all for Renaye.
Just walk a way Renaye..
February 2, 2009 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I predict that renaye and her buddies are right now planning a new invasion of Arthur's Kingdom... maybe even in the NW corner of the SW of the EW. :)
February 2, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, you missed the context. Recognize the quote, which betrays a complete misunderstanding, or lack of knowledge of what was said before, such as "Explain the Bush Docttine."
I love it!
February 2, 2009 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moi aussi!
February 2, 2009 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
*bows* Thanks, you two. :)
February 2, 2009 11:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
...ya think?
February 2, 2009 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
keep on keepin on boys
February 2, 2009 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
DD - Actually, I didn't miss the context at all. :-)
I've stayed out of the YIKES! threads, largely because (1) I didn't think Y was really S or R, and (2) there should always be a place on any site for people who challenge the leanings of a majority of the users, as long as it's done respectfully.
February 2, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Charlie? Wha........?
February 2, 2009 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I GET IT NOW!!! hehehehehe.....ROFLMAO
Sheesh! Am I slow or what?
February 2, 2009 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is this new party Democrats are giving birth to? Will there be a baby shower?
February 2, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I predict octuplets.
Born: 9 AM, May 17th.
Combined weight of 8.07 trillion kilos.
February 2, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that's a whole of carbon.
February 2, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sh#t! An 8.07 trillion kilo Taurean. We're all f#$ked.
February 2, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Many people seem more interested in each other than the politics.
February 2, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
A very true statement that applies to most of humanity.
February 2, 2009 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I only come here to meet chicks.
February 2, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did ya hear hear that, bwak? Watch those chicks!
February 2, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mark is kinda cute...
February 2, 2009 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except for the misanthropes... Sad, that.
February 2, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know you'll be back, and see this.
You didn't fool anyone. You look like an idiot.
You are the most spiteful and arrogant creature I have ever seen.
Watch out for Karma. It's a bitch.
February 2, 2009 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what to think about the whole YIKES saga. If the guy was for real, I feel sorry for him walking into the middle of a melee and getting mugged due to mistaken identity. There's one thing he said above that I agree with 100%:
"renaye: congratulations. You really put a cancer on this board. Your influence is now spread to not only disrupting blogs, but disrupting the community at large."
I hate that pernicious bitch. I see that she hasn't pooped out any comments for over 24 hrs. now. Ding dong, maybe the witch is dead.
February 2, 2009 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
hahaahahahahahahahahahahah pooped comments?
TT, we must stay above the fray.
On the other hand, I now have a new def for PC
And I am happy to award you with the Dayly line of the day for this site, from all of me to you!!!!
February 2, 2009 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
;-] ;-] ;-]
February 2, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
"renaye: congratulations. You really put a cancer on this board. Your influence is now spread to not only disrupting blogs, but disrupting the community at large." - I think that was just SRY patting himself/herself itself on the back for a job well done.
February 2, 2009 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems to me socialists are not quitters, especially when it comes to communities. That, to me, suggests the poster was NEVER a socialist!
February 2, 2009 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya gotta treat it like a good mystery story, Thera. Like one of those after-dinner-club thingies. You got to wear the black hat this time. I suspect the cast will come out for a bow pretty soon.
February 2, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. I'm predicting dd has the scoop. And we'll get it in tomorrow's episode.
Yes, quinn, we need to be on the look out for all the Angles.
February 2, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is complete as I speak, er write. And a terrible end is in sight for Renaye, and no, she could not walk away.
February 2, 2009 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or a socializer. I didn't read all those arguments with Yikes but it did seem like he got a fistful of something he didn't want or expect.
February 2, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not a "socializer" - yes, apparently not good at predicting social consequences. What a flame-out!
February 2, 2009 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
This reference was informative.
February 2, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well Zinn is every bit as cranky in his own way as Bill Hicks was. That's not to say they're cranks mind you. Just impatient with the vast majority of folks.
February 2, 2009 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Touting Howard Zinn. Hmmm..... Looky here:
And who made that comment?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/01/memorize-dawn-johnson-weep-wit.php#comment-3331604
I keep seeing this small circle of Zinn devotees here. I'm wondering if there's a common denominator. (we could make a little collection of these people pushing Zinn)
February 2, 2009 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well jason will eat anything you place in front of him. That doesn't tell me much.
February 2, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love mystery theatre! Try googling "Internet board" (the last two words in Yikes post today) and "TPM" - and then look to see how many times it shows up, with the "i" in Internet capitalized. Very few.
Or try looking for Zinn at TPM, not just for who referenced him, but who actually LINKED to it.
Or better yet, who references Zinn, but CAPITALIZES the title of the book.
Any of those pretty much narrow the options. (Though there are others.) Not 100%, but..... a reasonable weighting, I'd say.
All of which is good mystery theatre --- but I DO think there's still something to what the poster is saying (even if not in the way it's being said, and the personalization of it.) After the election, reader numbers fell dramatically (by 2/3 I think, according to the tracking agencies), and everyone got to know each other better, and that made the formation of a narrower set of opinions more likely. Just because it's harder, in a smaller group, to avoid that. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, because I view it as temporary. Others got really really upset by it, and seemed to feel it was final. Some even... left. I'll be just as happy as more people come in again, and I suspect the Readers will deal with it just fine, after the usual stops & starts.
Not saying I like this little piece of theatre, I don't especially. For instance, it completely derailed & destroyed the conversation that was unfolding on my blog yesterday - which I'd put some time into it. But... I can understand that some people have been upset recently.
I have no idea about any link to Renaye/Spric, and which I don't see, frankly. Hopefully, I've already explained that slip, and apologized sufficiently.
A useful lesson all this, perhaps, in terms of worrying about who's who, rather than - as someone famously used to say here - the content of what they were saying. ;-) Mystery theatre!
Who knows? Maybe we'll come to know... maybe not. Even now, I'm not 100% sure. But... patterns of speech sure are interesting.
February 2, 2009 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
"But... patterns of speech sure are interesting."
Indeed.
February 3, 2009 6:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is it really all that interesting?
Do you guys seriously think I have the time or inclination to play these sorts of games? What would be the upside beyond a raging headache from too much time spent in front of a monitor.
Look at time stamps if you want to be junior detectives. I am pretty confident that at a certain point such an operation is impossible to hid because of the time stamps.
Sheesh.
February 3, 2009 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
So now it is a conspiracy of Howard Zinn fans or we are somehow all the same people? My real name is really a pseudonym? YIKES!, renaye and myself are all one in the same?
Doesn't sound all that sane of a position to me.
As to me eating anything that is put in front of me, it is amazing just how wrong you are about everything that has to do with me. I would think that even blind chance would allow you to get one thing right about me.
Odd.
February 2, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
We agree again, Jason. Odd.
February 2, 2009 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am I supposed to understand what you are talking about?
February 2, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You said: "Odd." We agree: Odd.
February 2, 2009 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but there was much in my comment and the "Odd" was qualified by all that came before it.
Do you seriously think I have the time and/or inclination to carry out some sort of strange plot that involves multiple TPM identities all in order to - What exactly would my motivation be?
This sort of inference is what I find odd. What exactly did you find odd?
February 3, 2009 7:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok I take it back, what won't you eat?
February 2, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most of the paranoia du jour being served up around here.
February 3, 2009 7:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Paranoia, not unlike hypocrisy, is an acquired taste.
February 3, 2009 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Case in point. No where in what I wrote could I be considered paranoid. That doesn't even make any sense. It is ad hominem. I am going to continue calling you out on those tactics as long as you continue to employ them. You must think you fellow bloggers are idiots. Pretty arrogant.
February 3, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nowhere did I even suggest, much less imply, that you were paranoid in that post, Jason. But now that you mention it, your reply is clearly a bit paranoiac. So maybe you're both paranoid and hypocritical to an extreme! Could be I hadn't noticed until you rubbed my nose it in. That's what I get for being a liberal, huh!
"You must think you fellow bloggers are idiots. Pretty arrogant."
I think most people make typos from time to time, esp. when they are getting hot under the collar instead of warming up to friendly camaraderie. Really, Jason, have you no windmills to tilt at in other threads?? I said that paranoia is an acquired taste, not that I liked the taste of your trash talk, paranoiac or not!!
February 3, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. That was totally my fault. I thought you had responded to something I wrote down below. Mea cupla. (In my defense, you do that kind of thing to me a lot, so the assumed behavior was hardly unprecedented.)
February 3, 2009 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: The paranoia alluded to is hardly an illusion as I and others are accused of all sorts of things that are clearly paranoid. Not the least of which I am some sort of posting mastermind who juggles multiple names all making different points. Come on. How is that not some sort of paranoid ranting?
February 3, 2009 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dunno, how it is or is not, but either way it seems rather irrelevant unless your ego is what is at issue in this thread! If that were true, it would lend credence to the notion that you're running a sock puppet shell game.
And, btw, I don't accept your judgment that "you do that kind of thing to me a lot". I don't even know what kind of thing you're talking about, unless it's that I let you get your momentum get the better of you, so to speak. That's not really my doing, is it?
Try adjusting your IFF system, you seem determined to see me as a Foe rather than as a Friend, far too often!
ps - apology accepted
February 3, 2009 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is informative, particularly the first link coupled to this statement:
"I would love to meet Old Grouch. Guys like him are too young or too old to be able to be so bold in the real world. I'm betting he is a teenager or a retiree. Either way, it's pretty weak to play hero via your monitor."
And this: "I've been in enough street fights to know what to do there. You make damned sure someone thinks twice before an unprovoked attack again."
I've lived in the East Village before it was fashionable to live there, and I've had remarkable success avoiding 'street fights'. Perhaps Zinn's thesis stands some exceptions.
February 2, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
WHOA....thera, you called somebody a name.... :)
February 2, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
ok, what name?
February 2, 2009 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You called (implied) YIKES! is a "quitter".
I think it's a first, and I uncovered it. Thera is a closet fellow snarker. Who'da ever thunk it was possible.
For shame. For shame. hehe :)
February 2, 2009 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quitting is a verb. Not a noun. It describes a behavior. In my comment I linked it to a self-descriptor of the blogger - as being a socialist. The two seem mutually incompatible. As does your interpretation and mine.
Peace be with you.
February 3, 2009 9:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
For what it's worth, I never did (and still don't) think YIKES was renaye or spric. He (it) just jumped in with one criticism after another, and making assumptions about us "lefties," which he condescendingly describes as Democrats who are only to the left of republicans.
-- If most of us here are passionate about universal, single-payer health care -- what is to the left of THAT?
-- He dropped the bomb about his son being killed by a drunk driver as a REBUTTAL to explain what it would take for him to hate someone! It was presented as a way to remove any criticism because of what he'd been through, but having one's child killed isn't a talking point for most people. He would probably accuse me of being pompous here, because he loves that word; but if I had a tragedy like that I wouldn't drop it as an aside. And it was dropped as an aside. It makes me wonder.
-- In other words, he showed up and told everyone we are a bunch of losers and here's why... and then he wonders why he hasn't garnered respect as a thoughtful blogger.
Just like everyone who picks out one word to parse (I used several different terms to ask him a question and finally used the short-hand : "You 'hate' democrats." -- his only argument was with the word "hate') to demonstrate that a person who disagrees is 100% wrong, he has climbed on the bandwagon of "troll misidentification" to try to put the blame on TPM.
I would agree that people piled on about something that really didn't make any difference. What I disagree with YIKES about is that it was our fault he was not respected from the beginning.
He was like a fingernail on a blackboard from moment #1, and that is not the way to be heard. I speak as someone who often scrapes the blackboard, but that isn't all I do. Like everything else in life, in order to be respected to have to earn it with thoughtful ideas and by showing that you have a view beyond your small horizon.
If you only come here to complain and pick people apart, and then complain that you got the same treatment, I have to say, -- some personal reflection is in order.
February 2, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's it in nutshell. Coupled with blaming others for cringing!
February 2, 2009 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The thought that he was renaye never occured to me before reading it here, though it wouldn't have made any difference to me one way or the other.
So he was abrasive. I like that. Rather than take his chiding me as a boomer personally, I saw it as a challenge to come up with a good comeback. I thought I did. I think it's all part of the experience of blogging. Besides, he did have a different yet no less passionate POV than the most strident of all of us as we finally learned in this thread.
Why should any of us take even a personal attack personally on here since we each have an online personality, that no matter how honest, is not the same as who we are or what we are like in person.
I have no problem leveling my punches and counter-punches to equal or better those of my opponents when in a confrontational back and forth. Without the confrontation this can all get rather one-dimensional.
February 2, 2009 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh
shut up
=D
February 2, 2009 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's interesting, years ago there was some jackass on a yahoo stock board I visited. He too used the dead son defense for obnoxiousness.
I usually don't engage with a-holes like this unless they want to talk policy. That's why I found renaye tolerable, she'd at least talk about issues. If it's just tit for tat insults, well I was married to a Russian for 10 years. Got enough to last me a lifetime out of that relationship.
February 2, 2009 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
:-)
February 2, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really don't follow things closely enough here to know what has transpired, but the comments in this thread seem to me to prove YIKES point. This used to be a discussion forum and has now, with some notable exceptions, morphed into a chat room.
I believe that those who spend their time accusing people of being trolls really have nothing of substance to offer.
February 2, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty much how I see it, Chris, in a lot of ways. Isn't enough to make me disappear, but does take some of the luster off at times.
February 2, 2009 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go back and read YIKES' comments. Trolling isn't the issue; it is harping and nit-picking from the very first post. Now, he is entitled to do that, but then the thin skin comes up. His feelings get hurt when anyone dares to disagree. He is the consummate victim.
Here is an example:
From YIKES:
My response:
YIKES's response:
Chris, you may agree with much of what YIKES said, or even just found it interesting, but it was always a one-way conversation. YIKES is a typical drive-by commenter. He has made the decision to get out of the kitchen, and that is probably best until he can figure out a way to offer some thoughtful input. It doesn't have to be the party line, but it helps to show some respect for those you are reading by trying to find something you agree about, and then go on from there.
If you cannot find one single thing you agree with here, you probably are not going to be happy here anyway.
February 2, 2009 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
He had plenty to offer that was thoughtful but never got a chance. I find it both amusing and ironic that liberals confused a socialist for a republican troll.
Now that should offer a learning moment grounded in something approaching humility.
The regulars around this place got a huge head when Obama finally took over and the tone changed noticeably. Every opinion outside a small circle of commenters was attacked relentlessly. I faced many of the same charges from the same people.
Hell, it's being implied above that I am somehow responsible for all three of these posters (or is fourn now?) and their comments because of a connecting thread of Howard Zinn references?
Some strange, paranoid and self-important shit has been going on around here these last few weeks.
February 2, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: We are all a bunch of nit-pickers and semantic warriors. It is why we blog. That seems an odd complaint.
February 2, 2009 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think you read what I said. You and I have had many lively, and some contentious, but often great conversations.
If you had accused me of "jumping all over you" because I started my post with "Um, Jason..." I don't think we would have ever gotten anywhere.
February 2, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
We have been OK, but that certainly isn't the paradigm for most people with my opinions.
The only reason I have been able to thrive here is a decent voice and the ability to back off my positions at times. A little more stubbornness from my political "youth" of last year and the same thing could happen.
Hell, the same did happen just last week.
I am not saying you actually piled on YIKES!, but even a reasoned comment after one has been defending themselves for however long can come across as combative.
We are still all human around here, as far as I can tell.
February 3, 2009 7:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
BFD. I have no idea what YIKES said. Like I said I don't follow things here closely as I've lost interest.
If you don't like what YIKES has to say then don't read it, and don't respond.
I'm going to say this really slow I-t-'s t-h-e i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t. People, mostly, post anonymously, for a variety of reasons. Just as some demented morons with computer make 9-1-1 calls to far off communities which result in the dispatch of swat teams to randomly selected innocent persons homes, there are folks who visit discussion forums in search of attention.
I really don't understand why it is that folks feel they must respond.
February 2, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was gonna respond, but thought better of it. ;-)
February 2, 2009 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't help myself. It's a target rich environment. Besides, through it all YIKES! really did, in the end, prove he had a lot to say. Who am I, or anybody else for that matter, to say it has to said one way but not another.
February 2, 2009 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly! Great point.
February 3, 2009 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wha, wha. Cry me a river, or should I say whine me a river?
Give me a break. Are you really that clueless?
There are posts here that that inform me. Like the post about Gavin Newsome's fund raising and oleeb's post on the single payer proposal as reported by CQ. What I do not find the least informative is circle jerking, chat room and troll sniffing nonsense.
Further, I would suggest that I've been hanging out here far longer than have you. And when I no longer find anything of value here I'll leave with out the YIKES drama queen nonsense or whining.
Once again, it's the internet.
February 2, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Oh Oh . . .
The old, I've been here longer than you chesnut ???
Kewl . . .
~OGD~
*Paddling the Cafe since June 2005 watching the "I've got a bigger 'bulge' than you crowd."*
February 3, 2009 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
February 2, 2009 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
What was it that Forrest Gump said?
February 2, 2009 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, that was something about chocolate.
=D
February 2, 2009 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong quote. It was "stupid is as stupid does".
February 2, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you're the expert.
February 3, 2009 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr Yikes,
There is a broad range of opinion expressed on this board. There are radically different styles of expression happening. There are high fives traded as quickly as Lehman stock. There are arguments that have been going on for years. I could complain that you haven't given us enough of a chance but whatever. I don't think you have given yourself enough of a chance.
moat
February 2, 2009 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lehman stock?
February 2, 2009 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. Lehman stock. I've got in in my portfolio. I keep it next to my standing orders for Standard Oil Trust and ValuJet.
February 3, 2009 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would also opine that YIKES is being thin skinned. Why take what anonymous commenters have to say so seriously? There are those here who take offense when one disturbs the chat room ambiance. BFD.
Again, it's the internet.
February 2, 2009 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not thin skinned, trollish devotion to ego-histrionics.
February 2, 2009 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give me a break. Who the f**k are you to determine who's a troll and who isn't?
February 2, 2009 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, so what's your definition? Seriously.
February 2, 2009 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
An effin expert, having studied and managed trolls here and in the gutter of the internet as well (other sites with much higher trash density). If you don't know what "trollish behavior" would be, I can see you'd need to attack me, so as to demo one kind of trollish behavior for us.
"Not thin skinned, trollish devotion to ego-histrionics."
You will note I made no determination in that comment as to any particular person being a troll. I suggested a more apt description. If accuracy irks you, good luck with that!
February 3, 2009 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pretending that implying someone is a troll is somehow different from them actually being a troll is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty I would expect from you on this particular issue. I suspect you are expert through emulation and immolation.
February 3, 2009 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
More dumb eloquent trash talk from Jason. Oh well.
February 3, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hypocrite.
February 3, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, but that may be what you see in the mirror, Jason.
It's one thing to write provocatively on topic, to elicit fresh thinking or challenge prejudices, another to abuse the privilege here to try to insult or injure your correspondents personally. Keep in mind that sense of humor doesn't propagate well here.
I didn't know you before you became a Republican, Jason. Maybe your view of hypocrisy stems from your own facade. It would be understandable if a person assumed that others were just exactly like himself except in insignificant details, but that could be a prejudice worth challenging.
PS - Looks like YIKES! wasn't really leaving...
February 3, 2009 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have treated everything I have written with a disdain and a prejudice that is very easy to pick up on. It's not like you tried to hide it. Every time I ignored a jibe, you simply got more aggressive.
The limitations of the software around here make it impossible to quote you chapter and verse, but anyone who has been paying attention for the year I have been around these parts is sure to know exactly what I am talking about.
You have purposely split hairs or taken umbrage or feigned outrage over 90% of what I have written, while I mostly leave you alone until you comment on something not directed at you.
By all means, feel free to comment, but the boulder in your eye is keeping you from seeing any of your own actions in those sins you project on to me.
You claim to be an independent and seem to hold more pragmatic policy stands than most on here, yet you debate like the most Raging Left (or Raging Right) weenie I have ever come across.
Good luck with those tactics. I happy to report you are mostly alone in practicing them here at TPM.
February 3, 2009 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I happy to"
Me happy to, too.
Jason, you sure do get all wound up about other people's stuff! I posted in re Chris Brown about the blogger at issue. You jumped in the pool and started splashing as if that were the point. After all your blah blah blah, here we are!
If you're out for trouble, looking to take offense where not offered, that's just your thing. You do appear to do that often enough to make it noteworthy. If not, you sure have a strange method of discussing things by avoiding them. Do you run on chaos theory all the time??
February 3, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You sure are quick to never take responsibility for what you write.
Instead, you jump on a single missing word in a very long comment as somehow indicative of a fragile mental state. Not only do you give yourself a little too much credit to have any real sense of humility, but you also continue with the ad hominem attacks.
Just can't keep it political, huh? You have to make it personal.
February 3, 2009 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jason, you wrote: "exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty I would expect from you"
That was not you seeing if mud would stick to me personally?? And what followed from you in the subthread had zero personal valuation?
If the quantity of dishonesty is 0, why even bring it up in those terms, except to troll or try to make it personal? If the quantity alleged is not 0, then it's you attacking me personally.
February 3, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
What the hell, dude? Speak freaking English.
Yes, that was an ad hominem attack. I firmly believe the best defense is a good offense and will respond in kind. You treat me with respect and you will be respected, whether we ever agree or not.
I have let bygones be bygones with a ton of people, but you just won't let this bone go.
February 3, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just checking on your tactics, sheesh. You made what you now acknowledge was a personal attack on me, which I deflected, and then you whined down the road about the subthread getting personal.
"I firmly believe the best defense is a good offense and will respond in kind."
Who needed defense at that point, the point at which you became offensive? What need had you to "defend" Chris Brown?
Go figure!
February 3, 2009 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I go on the offense when I spend comment after comment trying to be reasonable and you remain obstinate. It's not a very hard concept to get.
February 4, 2009 6:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
No Jason, that attack was your first entry in the subthread, so you go on the attack for other reasons.
As for "you're a troll", if it misses the mark, deal with it in context and promptly. I'm willing to try to explain my usage in such cases. However, I'm not willing to pander nicely to your abuse indefinitely. "Get over it."
February 4, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I expected that sort of intellectual dishonesty from you..." is only a semi ad hominem attack and was based on many interactions with you. I think you protest way too much to be credible. If you don't want me to respond in kind, perhaps you can knock off with the immature tactics.
February 4, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: My "attack" was pretty mild, however, and was focused on a specific attack you made, vice being the more general "You're a troll..." that typically comes from your keyboard.
February 4, 2009 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, your attack was mild, and as I noted already here I deflected it and moved forward. We're talking about it now because you couldn't move forward but brought up the subject of personal attacks later in the thread, as yet another personal attack from you against me. I pointed out where the attacks started, your unwarranted intrusion into the subthread. Your behavior is classic "chip on the shoulder" conduct.
Clear enough?
February 4, 2009 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Broken record. You started with the ad hominem stuff over the last few weeks and have yet to back off of it as your normal style. If you want to start fresh, that is all well and good with me as we mostly agree, but I will not be attacked without responding. It has nothing to do with a chip on my shoulder and everything to do with enjoying myself during my favorite pastime.
February 4, 2009 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it has everything to do with you having a chip on your shoulder, unless you're just trolling. You're the broken record here, Jason.
February 4, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am officially done with you unless you learn how to have reasonable conversations that aren't tinged with the steamy stench of victimization.
Feel free to comment as you wish, but unless you respond directly to something I wrote, rather than offering ad hominem attacks (notice your use the word trolling yet again) in the place of logical thought, I won't be speaking with you anymore.
Life is too short to spend with crazy people, on- or off-line.
February 5, 2009 7:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't take him seriously. Made two comments to him. One was in response to his response to me. The other was in response to an asinine, and aggressive comment to someone else. He is the jerk who posted a blog on his 'experience'. He takes himself a lot more seriously than anyone here ever took him. Kinda like that frenchy stuff Quinn was throwin' out over on Desidero's blog.
February 3, 2009 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bye, YIKES! I hope you get better soon
February 2, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll miss you, Yikes! No one else has ever called me part of the ruling class of ... well, anything. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Melissa Macklin (just so 'ya know)
February 2, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't get called part of the ruling class. Why does Mel rate, but I don't?
Gimme my ball, I'm going home.
February 2, 2009 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude! You decided to follow him just because he felt put out by his reception on Q's blog yesterday.
February 2, 2009 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
So. What's it to you?
February 3, 2009 2:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nuthin'. You asked why sryctp didn't include you in the ruling elite. This guy always wanted adulation and acceptance, and you gave him that.
February 3, 2009 2:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey....even I knew your real name. :)
Signed,
Anonymous Poster. :D
February 2, 2009 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
;)
February 2, 2009 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow! You posted a name. Big deal.
Here's mine:
Fred Smith.
Just so you know, okay? Now what?
PS I'm not the famous one, in case you were wondering about THAT.
February 3, 2009 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was late to the party on the YIKES! arrival, only got in on a bit of it, but once he left (after I quit crying over the loss) I went back to see what all the bruhaha was...
What a piece of work!
I respect and appreciate the diversity here. As much as I love eventually coming to something that approaches consensus, this place would be pretty boring if it was an echo chamber where everyone just posted and everyone else told them how wonderful they are...We would never learn anything, we would never hear different points of view, we would never have the opportunity to fine tune our positions or debating skills.
What I object to is the way some people come in and blast the heck out of nearly everyone, pass judgments, and attack, attack, attack. He could have been the most brilliant mind ever to walk in the door here, and who would have known it? When someone comes in shooting, it's hard to listen to what he's saying. I don't expect everyone that comes around to have exactly the same temperment, but jeez, if we can't be civil to each other here, how do we ever expect the outside world to be civil...
February 2, 2009 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, okay, fine I admit it, I was McCainpal back during the primaries.
Whoooo!
February 2, 2009 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
That old guy? LOL.
February 2, 2009 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't laugh. Back in the primaries, I was that guy Destor.
I still feel dirty.
February 2, 2009 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I LOVED McCainPal. I wish he would write again.
February 2, 2009 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks you guys.
I lost McCainpal's password and whatever email address I registered him with. So the old man is retired. But maybe this new age will spawn a new character.
Until then you have to deal with.... WHOOOO! The Natcha Boy!
February 2, 2009 11:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good grief destor! wots all this then? wedding garb?
=D
February 2, 2009 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't be sure but I think he's wearing a sled dog around his neck BWak.
February 2, 2009 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
itchy stuff
February 2, 2009 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yikes was fun....sort of.
February 2, 2009 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Uh huh . . .
But I just feel so sad that boomers had apparently shat all over her/him all those years, well sorta... Other than that, I never thought the person was a troll. And my feelin's have always been that trolls have needs too. It's a huge pond out there.
QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!
~OGD~
February 3, 2009 1:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
sort of....
February 3, 2009 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Incredible. People here are trying to figure out if I am real, troll, or some other poster. Still!
What's wrong with some of you???
I guess where a lot of people thought since I wasn't for the Democrats, I must be a Republican, it makes sense that you think they are only a few posters in the world so anyone you have trouble with they must be the same person!
I am who I say I am. But you went after Jason (who is Republican) because he mentioned Zinn once. I notice that you didn't go after oleeb because he KNOWS Zinn. Why? Probably because Jason is too much out of your collective narrow views. (No offense, oleeb, I'm glad no one thought you were me!!!)
That says a lot, doesn't it??
CVille Dem: you are about as obnoxious as they come. I mention something personal and now you doubt me???? Because I didn't tell you in a way you think I should???? I hope you never have to bury one of your children... and then have people tell you how you should be reacting to it.
CVille continues his small mindedness:
Is your IQ below 60???? How about a NO PAYER health care plan??? God, do you have limited imagination.
You walk around like the nice middle class robots that you are. And when someone comes with a different ideas you just piss on them. You have no new ideas because your "new" idea are just a little less Republican. That's not new. But it is trying to keep hold of the material gains you have. When the dollar is worthless, at least I know how to hunt game. I bet none of you even own a rifle. How are you going to eat???
Don't worry, I won't be posting again beyond this blog. I spent the better portion of the day trying to look for a job. Oops! Maybe that just sounds like I'm trying to "drop it as an aside." You keep wondering, CVille. Shame on you!!!!
If you think I'm harsh, just wait until you know what it's like to be in my shoes. Get ready for the birth of a real leftist party. Say goodbye to your hypocrisy!!! Closed society = Closed minds.
PS I hope all of you who read my comments with seriousness realize that none of this is aimed at you. It's just the pig and the ruling cadre.
February 3, 2009 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Boomer & IQ quotes pretty much makes up my mind who you are, you petty, vindictive, a-hole. Bad luck in the job search elite science guy.
February 3, 2009 1:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
ps. those things I said regarding the powerless seeking power are even more apt than I had anticipated.
February 3, 2009 1:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then why do you keep posting validating me???
Then why did you say at the beginning of the comments that you stopped reading after the 2nd line but then quote one of the final lines of my blog???
You are projecting, pig. This was never about power for me but obviously it's about power for you. I wanted to talk about politics. I have about 2/3 of my blog about some serious politics but most people here are just trying to do a PEOPLE MAGAZINE on me.
GROW UP!!!
You are a pig alright. Being led to the slaughter by your own self righteousness.
February 3, 2009 1:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
OOOhhh...stroke, stroke.
February 3, 2009 2:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Elite science GUY??? Wait! I thought I was SRY??? I thought I was Jason??? Maybe I'm YOU!!!
Yes, you are always sure you have the right answer. All I am is me. Thank you for proving my point. I was going to be tarred and feathered with someone's identity because you didn't like what I had to say. It's good I'm not wasting more time here. The comments here prove that.
February 3, 2009 1:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Buh-bye!!!!!!
February 3, 2009 2:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
PPS:
OldGoldenDecoy: I guess that narcissistic comment came a little too close to home, didn't it? Self centered BOOMER!
February 3, 2009 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Blow off punky . . .
You just can't hang with the adult crowd.
You'll get over it, when you're about 60, if you're fortunate enough to live that long.
And I hope you are fortunate enough. You've earned that many years of pain.
~OGD~
February 9, 2009 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
PPPS:
Stillidealistic: You may not like me, my views, or the way I post. That's okay. I know that you and I have done something most parents shudder to even think of. So as far as I'm concerned, we share a bond that very few really understand.
And I never claimed that I'm the most brilliant mind in the room. I'm not even close.
I'm just smart enough to know you should read Howard Zinn's book. You should also look at Noam Chomsky on youtube. You know why people here find him "dry"? It's because he knows his stuff inside and out and the immenseness of his brain tells you right away he is right and you have little room to maneuver. The guy is a sponge with facts!! I'm glad I was able to "teach" you that much. Good luck!!
February 3, 2009 1:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
YIKES! I didn't say you thought you were the most brilliant mind in the room. I said you COULD have been, but it wouldn't have been recognized, because of the way you came in shooting.
I try really hard to see past the bs to the content of what people are trying to say. I watched both the videos you provided. In all likelihood, I will explore further.
The point is not in agreeing or disagreeing with views, it is in coming into a new to a community (I take you at your word that you are not someone else) and just blasting away.
There was another poster here (he says he's gone now) who posted under the moniker ClearThinker who was a smart guy with some pretty good ideas, but he was incredibly obnoxious and condescending and acted like he was the be all end all and the rest of us were a bunch of idiots. I locked horns with him regularly, and finally got to the point where I stayed away from his posts, because the animosity was just too much. I am probably the loser on that, because he did have a lot of good information.
I wouldn't mind seeing you continue to post here. I really would like to hear more of your thoughts, and I think you could be successful if you stepped back from the attack mode. I would encourage you to keep the same name and just attempt a "do-over." In spite of evidence to the contrary, this is a great place, and I think you would find it worthy of the effort it would take to mend fences. Sorry, there goes the mothering again...
Anyway, I DO wish you well in your job search. I feel badly for anyone trying to find work in this economy. And if opt not to stay here, I wish you well in finding a place where you feel like you've got a better fit.
February 3, 2009 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
PPPSP:
quinn: you are right. People here will come up with anything to tar and feather you with someone else's ID. I guess they figure there are only 100 bloggers in the world. You decided to stay. These comments convince me to leave. It's not worth it for me. I can do more in the real world. Maybe because no one will confuse my face with someone else's. But there is definitely a cancer here. Good luck to you and those like you.
February 3, 2009 2:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cheers, YIKES! Come on back when you have more time to spar with the subpar. Remember, the republican party was the original "leftie" party in America and it is in dire need of an Extreme Makeover. The party on the way up almost never wants to hear about changes they still need to make.
February 3, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Just another . . .
. . . fart in the bathtub . . .
~OGD~
February 9, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
YOu must be used to the smell given the turds you lay around here.
February 10, 2009 7:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
We are the Borg, resistance is futile.
February 3, 2009 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tell me about it. For those that care, it starts with my post to Marquis where the pompous ass proclaims that NO NEEDS TESTING blah blah, and I disagree. That's how I step into the trap of the ruling cadre...
February 3, 2009 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
... then while being thrashed by CVille on Marquis' blog, I post on Barefoot's and find out the long arm of the elitists. Had to call Old Grouch out... who was like a child...
February 3, 2009 2:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
... so I posted my own blog pointing out how hypocritical many people here were and got a full does of TheraP's arrogance and self righteousness.
The good part of my own blog is it set up a dialogue between me and several other people. Then this morning, the pig is back to his old trick... and that is after I thought things were changing!!!
So, I saw that TPM is made up of all types but the obnoxious ones will never allow a real discussion to take place. Hell, the obnoxious ones think there are only two types of thought Republican and Republican-lite. There is definitely going to be a major upheavel. The more it comes out that the Democrats haven't controlled much either, because they are all corporate lackies, the more it will dawn on people that the only way to beat the corporations is to leave the Democratic Party for a real leftist party. That will leave the Democrats very weak and they will be absorbed by what is left of the middle class. Who will then wonder what happened to the value of the currency and what happened to their retirement.
From that view, the BS here is hardly worth it.
February 3, 2009 2:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
"From that view, the BS here is hardly worth it.
Cosign that statement!!!!!
February 3, 2009 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Boy, are you obsessed with me!
February 3, 2009 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto!!!!!
February 3, 2009 3:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're the dork who posted a blog opining how you've been mistreated. So it goes.
February 3, 2009 3:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
In response to two comments.
February 3, 2009 3:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think he was agreeing with you.
February 3, 2009 3:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was commenting that he keeps posting on this blog. He was the one trying to "root out" (another good pig action) "who I was"... and now he just keeps posting and posting. Somehow I must threaten him. Or he is in love with me.
February 3, 2009 3:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah but...ya gotta admit, this whole thing has gotten damn funny.
February 3, 2009 3:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess. I wonder how Josh Marshall feel about his "regulars"???
February 3, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
He probably thinks we all a bunch of lunatics. Hell, he probably joins the fun once in a while under an assumed name just for the hell of it. Who knows.
One thing I've learned is to not take anything, particularly myself, too seriously.
February 3, 2009 3:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't give the pig any more ideas.
February 3, 2009 3:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, for a guy who doesn't like this board your post might be close to a record as far as number of responses goes. I have no idea but, it has got to be up there. Good job.
February 3, 2009 3:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not even close.
February 3, 2009 3:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
thus spake the fool.
February 3, 2009 3:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
speak for yourself CT. ;)
February 3, 2009 4:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, so now you want daddy to come in and pwotekt pwoow sryctp? Why don't you grow a pair. You don't participate in honest debate. You post blogs under aliases and expect people to honor you. You said it here. Take it to heart. Grow up. Daddy did what he did to you. Get over it.
February 3, 2009 3:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, whatever, but look at the involvement. We haven't had this big of a game in a long, long, long long long time.
February 3, 2009 3:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Haven't had this big of a fraud in a long, long time.
February 3, 2009 3:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is only one kind of person here, obnoxious. Ask both sides.
February 3, 2009 3:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are ONLY two sides???
February 3, 2009 3:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
poetic license.
February 3, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
This stream is classic. ROFLMAO ;)
February 3, 2009 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Me too.
February 3, 2009 3:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Which is exactly the reason you should stay, though I agree with much of you assessment; it can be pretty rough around here for anyone challenging ideas or the status quo. Personally I've more-or-less given up on TPM for the same reasons, and spend most of my reading time elsewhere. I've been with TPM on and off since it started (but have only recently posted), but the atmosphere has changed a lot since then (who am I kidding, there was no atmosphere then -- just Josh and a dream . . .).
That said, and I am saying this in all niceness, your tone does turn hostile rather quickly when opposed. Using emotionally-charged language like "lefties" to denigrate people you presume to debate is simply unacceptable. Please bare in mind that the opinions expressed on TPM are just that -- opinions -- even when those opinions are your own and you happen to like them. Everyone believes their own ideas are golden, else why post? But it generally goes over better if you explain your position, rather then firstly lash out and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of needing to see a shrink. Blanket suppositions such as that, all-inclusive name-calling ("lefties"), and attacking through emotions rather than logic . . . yeah, we all do it at times, if not here than somewhere else . . .but it is a particularly pervasive tactic amongst the Right in general and extremists in particular. Don't be that guy.
Regardless, the friction you've experienced here is probably pretty mild compared to some. If you want to talk about controversial posts that frequently devolve into flame wars, Clearthinker has you beat by a country mile on that score.
February 3, 2009 3:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! Random you can't be Clearthinker!!! I just got accused of being Clearthinker!!! That when I'm not everyone else they are claiming I am.
This place is truly fucked up. No wonder no one can make good political arguments.
February 3, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Glad you finally took some time to 'walk around' TPM as Quinn suggested you do in your first blog, and get to know the 'characters'. A lot of less astute people would have taken much longer to interpret what/who Dij was referring to when she called out "CT/Yikes". You just blew it. Like I said, it's hard to cover all of your tracks when you try to maintain the fiction of more than one screen identity. One thing is certain, you've shown us an aspect of your nature, (read: mean and petty), in its undiluted form here in this new persona you've graced us with. Why don't you try to defend your arguments on their own merit, and according to your abilities, instead of attempting to add weight to them through the extra screen names? Cheers!
February 3, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take the 'blew it' part back. The rest stands. You know this isn't just a game. Maybe you don't. Your actions count and are counted, as your do your ideas. You demonstrate your subscription to your thesis, that there's a 'ruling cadre', by trying to create your own little fiction of a mob. Take your own advice and 'grow up'.
February 3, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way ct I notice 'Random' only posts one or two comments a week. 20 total since Dec. 6. Perhaps he/she/it doesn't have much to say, but I think it more likely that online fictions should be exercised more frequently if you want them to hold up under scrutiny, (when they poke their heads up).
February 3, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I said in my last comment that it would be the last on this thread (got stuff to do, and this thread is giving me a friggin' head ache), but now I have to set the record straight.
miguelitoh2o, I am most definitely NOT CT, nor am I anyone else on this board. I have been around, on-and-off, for a long time. Since the beginning of TPM, actually, but I have never posted until this last election cycle, and only then because I needed an outlet for my political frustration. Digital communication just isn't my thing, I prefer face-to-face. As such, TPM is the only online place I take part in "regularly," regularly being used very subjectively here. I'll add a post every now and then at other blogs, or on a forum if I need tech help, but this is the only place I have an actual account, and this is the only account I have here. So yes, as you said, I just don't have much to say. Nothing personal TPM, I'm just a generally quiet guy.
If you apply your "forensic analysis" to me, you will notice that I am usually cogent, and only fly off the handle when someone is being a complete ass (I remember in particular a 9/11 denier back in August or September of last year), or when discussing religion (sorry, hot-button issue for me there. Can't help myself . . .).
That said, I don't think YIKES! is clearthinker, either. Completely different MO. As much as people here disagree with a lot of what CT says, at least he responds to argument with argument. He usually does a good job of defending his position with examples and data. YIKES! says he well support his argument, but he never actually makes an argument, then attacks everyone else as being an ivory tower twit.
February 3, 2009 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be fair, I don't think many "regulars" gave YIKES! a chance.
He may have had something of worth to contribute as a fan of Zinn and Chomsky, though I am not too familiar with the latter, People's History is still the most influential book I have read with regards to my political identity and understanding of what I never learned in high school.
Otherwise, right on.
February 3, 2009 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Jason. Though it is also right on that Yikes is not allowing everyone else to give him a chance. He (or she. Do we even know?) is a bit too quick to haul out insults and get self-defensive, without offering anything of substance. His method of refutation seems to rely exclusively on insult first, ask denigrating questions later. Not my style. Granted, I have blasted a few people around here, but only after a demonstration of intransigence.
February 4, 2009 2:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
No argument. It is certainly a two-way street do defuse situations or to ensure they rarely happen in the first place. However, much of the same behavior he faced, I have faced recently as well. Sometimes it takes superhuman strength to not respond in kind.
February 4, 2009 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, pig, you are always so damned sure. Right at the top of this very thread you were sure I was renaye. Remember the "forensic typography"???
Hey, pig:
BOO!
February 3, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you think I've changed my mind about that? Boo-hoo!!!!!
February 3, 2009 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS. I'm tired of reading your insults and countering your ad hominem attacks. You even attacked my Dad in an effort to reinforce your 'argument'. Hehehe! Were you born intellectually lazy or did you work to get to this point in your life? You've created perhaps the greatest circle jerk of your tenure here ct. Pat yourself on the back and as suggested on a 'related' post, slink away. Buh-bye.
February 3, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Slink link.
February 3, 2009 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
No pig, you attacked my father. All I had to do was point out the obvious that you still had a hang up about your own father's life.
I guess you aren't used to getting smacked back. You are fat and soft like a pig.
February 3, 2009 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
last time... I swear... Stroke, aaahhhh!
February 3, 2009 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
No no, I never implied I had been accused of being clearthinker, nor was I accusing you of being him. I am merely stating that CT's blog and comments tend to generate a good deal of heat. As in, scorching. What I AM saying, is that if he can take it, so can you.
Listen man, any debate is rough. In debate, people disagree with you. That's why they call it a debate. That is what you presume to engage in, that is what you have told us you are trying to do. But, objectionably, that is NOT what you have done. In your very first post you accused someone who disagreed with you of needing to see a shrink -- implying as it does that ANYONE who disagrees with you needs to see a shrink. You also, in that first post, used an emotionally-charged blanket term -- "lefties" -- to pigeon hole anyone in disagreement. You may not have been conscious of doing so -- most people are unaware of the tactics they use to control a situation -- but using that term and phraseology was your way of stopping debate before it even started. What that tactic is intended to accomplish is guilting people into agreeing with you (so they don't appear to be the All-Feared "lefty who needs a shrink"), and shutting-up those who DO disagree (for the same reason). It is similar to John McCain's campaign tactic of constantly referring to his POW status to stifle debate. That might get your way in real life, but it won't work around here -- the anonymity of the internet makes it very easy to tell someone to piss off.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the status quo or the posters who attacked you. I've read a lot of irrational responses to your presence, but we are all irrational people at times.
That said, rational argumentation does not resort to name calling, petty accusations, emotionally-charged language, and the constant dismissal of dissenters as "pretentious," "obnoxious," "arrogant," etc. Above, you accused everyone here of not being able to debate politics, but I have yet to read any cogent argumentation from yourself. If you want to debate, then debate. If you are unsure how, take a class. But for the love of the gods, get off your high-horse and EARN respect around here, rather than demand it.
Jesus, you sound like Sarah Palin at the VP debate -- refusing to answer the question, instead carrying on about your own self as if you are god's gift, then throwing names around to deflect attention from you lack of cogency.
Anyway, I'm done. Last comment. I'm too busy trying to find a damn job to get drawn into this shouting match.
Peace.
February 3, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, I'm sorry, I was mostly responded to the pig's calling you Clearthinker.
Yes, I used the term "leftie" but when I used the term shrink I meant it. Marquis claimed that needs testing was "dehumanizing" as if we are too fragile and boo hoo hoo. Needs testing should be given for everything and if it was it would have been given for TARP. So my point was literally, if you are a too fragile to be asked about your need, maybe you need to go to a shrink. But I get why you read it metaphorically.
February 3, 2009 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it can be argued that needs testing IS dehumanizing, so point to Marquis. But that does not necessarily exclude it as a means of quality control, so point to you. But here is the deal -- this is an area where the two of you disagree, however categorizing everyone with a word you obviously mean in a very negative way, or questioning their mental stability, is NOT an appropriate way to engage ANYONE. Save maybe some raving loonies on the far-Right.
But I don't know why I bother. Now you are onto "self-important," "pigs," and, in your next blog entry, "idiots." It is becoming ever more clear that you don't wish to engage in debate, but only convince everyone else of your own correctness. Everyone who disagrees is obviously a stupid, deluded ivory-tower moron with so much money they will never feel true compassion for the poor.
February 4, 2009 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! Random you can't be Clearthinker!!! I just got accused of being Clearthinker!!! That when I'm not everyone else they are claiming I am.
This place is truly fucked up. No wonder no one can make good political arguments.
February 3, 2009 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, clearthinker is my alter ego.
February 3, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is this your other username, that's mo' pop'lar, CT? Thanks for letting us know what the other one is!!!!
February 3, 2009 4:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
'Random' , that is. Positively Brownian, I'd say.
February 3, 2009 4:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
A humble suggestion:
Start your own discussions on issues that are important to you. Offer some background to your ideas. If you have knowledge to share, share it -- don't get bogged down in tit-for-tat intrablog politics. Your viewpoints should stand on their own merit. If you get lost in an off-topic argument, something's gone wrong. Take a breather, rephrase, and try again.
You can never convince someone if you just push an ideology. Truth, on the other hand, is self-evident. Don't attack: Educate.
February 3, 2009 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I recently read an interesting thought on truth:
"We judge and punish based on facts, but facts are not truth. Facts are like a buried skeleton uncovered long after death. Truth is fluid. Truth is alive. To know truth requires understanding, the most difficult human art. It requires seeing all things at once, forward and backward, the way God sees." (Greg Iles in Blood Memory)
What that has to do with the current discussion, I don't know...just liked it and wanted to share :-)
February 3, 2009 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is a perfect allegory of many debating styles at TPM, stilli. Many present their ideas as having some sort of hold on the "truth" and do so from a very limited framework. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong, but it can make them monolithic in their thinking.
I have been accused of dogma, when in fact I am quite quick to claim a complete lack any knowledge and instead offer additional bits of information, something to help flesh out the skeleton if you will, that I see missing from the conversation.
The Echo Chamber can be a dangerous thing and has brought down many a budding movement before this one.
February 3, 2009 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
For what it's worth, I posted a follow-up here which talks about witchhunts, TPM style.
February 3, 2009 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone that can't see the "score settling" here, isn't paying attention.
That's probably a good thing.
When a poster accuses Dijamo of wanting to lynch someone, that goes waaaay beyond the ToS here, as well as the rather unwritten rules as to acceptable commenting among normal people.
This level of viciousness and petty, spiteful malevolence is not run of the mill internet postings. I've only ever seen one other on this level in 10 years of internet posting. It's hardly usual. I would appreciate it if no one responded to this freak, so that we can get back to politics.
Thanks.
February 3, 2009 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that all the birds here are self important?
Go play with OldenMoldie, you cackling hen!
February 3, 2009 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
See . . .
Ya' just can't stay up with the adults.
Poor poor pitiful YIKES!
Waaaaaaaaaaa . . .
~OGD~
February 10, 2009 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink