The Religious Right: A Threat to America
BENEATH THE SPIN · ERIC L. WATTREE
The Religious Right: A Threat to America
When I became of age one of the first things I did was to reassess all of my previous beliefs and attitudes. Thereafter, I discarded as invalid anything that didn't stand up to logical and objective scrutiny, because even at that young age, I'd lived long enough to recognize that most of the problems in this world are a direct result of our failure to re-examine our illogical views of reality. Most religious zealots not only fail to go through that process, but refuse to as a matter of religious doctrine. It is due to that kind of zealotry, along with their doctrinal obligation against even considering the fact that they might be zealots, that makes the religious right a clear and present danger to both the United States, and the world.
Now, I don't have anything against religious people, per se - I was raised by Christians, and they were wonderful and loving people. In fact, I'm very spiritual myself. But if you show me a man who believes that Moses parted the Red Sea, I'll show you a man whose logical assessment of reality cannot be relied upon.
Such people fail to realize that efficient thought require that we must first see reality as it is, and only then, as we would have it. But these people have a tendency to try to force reality to conform to what they want it to be, then demonize, and in many cases condone the slaughter, of others who they even suspect might view the world differently. Thus, it is primarily their kind of thinking that introduce into the world the related horros of xenophobia, homophobia, racism, etc.
And the GOP leadership is expert at dipping into this well. While most GOP leaders could personally care less about religion, the intolerance of religious zealotry is one of their most potent weapons, and as we speak, they're mounting a campaign of intolerance against President Obama. And to demonstrate just how potent that weapon is, just tune in to FOX. The zealots are currently wallowing in their intolerance like hogs in slop, even though it means cutting their own throats.
Because the fact is, the zealots don't really care about religion themselves, at least, with respect to how it relates to God. If they did, those very same people wouldn't be so mean-spirited, selfish, and wedded to the instruments of death.
Another indicator of that is how they only embrace those tenents of their religion and/or patriotism when it promotes their point of view. Take school prayer, for example. While these zealots are ready to lay down their lives for the constitution when it comes to their right to come armed to the teeth to a presidential assembly, they're prepared to ignore both the Bible and the constitution when it comes to the separation of church and state.
Matthew 6:6 says the following:
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
So, according to Matthew, public prayer is not the proper thing to do (and by extention, I would imagine that God also wouldn't be impressed by the ostentation of flags and crosses being worn as lapel pins). But the zealots aren't interested in that scripture, because it neither contributes to their point of view, nor is it condusive to their campaign to demonize others.
Another thing that zealots tend to conveniently overlook is the fact that their entire concept of God is merely an accident of birth. If they'd been born in in the Middle East, chances are they would have been Muslems, or if they'd been born in China they'd probably have been a Buddhist, or if in India, a Hindu or Sikh.
That immediately suggested that religious doctrine is more a cultural manifestation of man than it is a dictate from God. So anyone who has surrendered their soul to any organization, be it religious or otherwise, and have a mind that is so closed to reality that they don't recognize that fact, makes me very nervous, because they're obviously more into hating others than they're into loving God. After all, the only reason that we're wasting young lives in Afghanistan, is because we're trying to keep Pakistan's nuclear missiles out of the hands of religious zealots - and by definition, a zealot's a zealot.
One would think that any clear-thinking person would recognize that God - or Nature, if you will - provided us with a sense of ethics, common sense, and empathy to guide us through life. So man doesn't require a users guide any more than birds require a calendar or map to fly South for the winter. And since ninety-nine percent of all the conflicts throughout the world involve a religious component, common sense should tell us that religious doctrine not only does NOT come from God, but indeed, represents the very darkest side of man.
Think about it, with all of the organized religions throughout the world, and all of the billions of people who claim to love God, why is there so much cruelty, murderous atrocities and suffering in the world? Why is it that with all the collection plates being passed around, collecting billions of tax-free dollars in the United States, for example, that there's any homelessness or suffering anywhere in this country? And most instructive of all is, why is it that the Bible belt was the birthplace of slavery, and the most bigoted part of the entire country?
I'll tell you why - because our religious doctrines are not focused on teaching us to love our fellow man. They're more focused on teaching us that other people who are unlike ourselves and have different beliefs are heathens. It is in our churches where we learn that God is on our side, and "those others" who don't look and think like we do are un-Godly, and are going to be condemned by God to eternal damnation. No? I'd be willing to bet a years pay that some of these so-called "men of God"are condemning me right now for having the audacity to speak the truth.
That's what makes it so easy for us to commit the most horrendous atrocities against others. Our religions spend all of their time teaching us to "have faith" in what we're being told, and hardly any time at all teaching us to love our fellow man. Man's need to control the minds of the masses dictate that they focus on teaching us to be selfish and hateful, rather than loving and Godly. It's all about saving MY soul from the devil, and what God did or is going to do for ME, instead of what I'm going to do to make this a better world.
Consider what man has told us to have faith in. Over the centuries we've been told such things as God wants us to burn young women at the stake because they're a little different. They told us that God wanted us to excommunicate Galileo and threaten other brilliant scholars with death before the inquisition for having the audacity to try to educate us and give us the benefit of their God-given brilliance. And why? Because their brilliance betrayed the erroneous thinking of church leaders who claimed to be getting their information from a direct pipeline to God.
We see that very same Mindset today. Many church leaders dismiss the validity of evolution, even in face of the fact that every time we get our children vaccinated it validates the fact that man is evolving.
When we're vaccinated we give our bodies a manageable dose of a disease. This allows our bodies to evolve to the point that it can tolerate a disease that would otherwise killed or disabled us. But the church has a vested interest in discounting evolution, because new knowledge is often in direct conflict with their version of creation. Thus, for their own selfish reasons religious leaders dispute evolution, global warming and other valuable knowledge, even though every bit of new knowledge we've ever collected has served to glorify God's wondrous creation much more thoroughly than Biblical authors could even dream of. But religious leaders don't care about glorifying God - they're only interested in saving face, and revenue.
Thus, some of the most serious problems that we have in the world today is a direct result of our organized religious leaders having our minds on lockdown. Their activity in that regard is a direct assault on the will of God, since God clearly made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to think. We know this, because all of the evidence available to man shows that God made man's ability to think the key to his survival.
Man arrived on this hostile planet as a necked ape, but with neither a legitimate ape's agility or strength. Man wasn't as ferocious as the lion, as strong as the elephant, nor could he soar like the eagle. He should have been dead on arrival, but God provided him with one tool to help him to survive - the human mind. And it is through the development that tool that man, this most unlikely and fragile of creatures, has established dominion over the entire Earth, and in an incredibly short period of time. Now, through our God-given intellect, we've become more fearsome than the most ferocious lion, we've created machines that are thousands of times more powerful than the strongest elephant, and we can now soar far beyond the eagle's domain. We've even left the planet to explore other worlds.
Thus, it was clearly God's will that we be logical, thinking beings. So for us to now allow man to come along and tell us that we should suspend our nature as thinking beings, and "have faith" in what he tells us, is a slap in the face of God. By doing so, we're showing more faith in what man says, than what God has done.
That is the source of all of our problems, we're not remaining true to our nature. To tell a man not to think is like telling a fish not to swim, or a bird not to fly. If either of those creatures were stupid enough to comply, they would not survive. And if man continues to listen to other self-serving men instead of utilizing his mind as God intended, he's not going to survive.
It was through putting our faith in man that we believed that God condoned the Manifest Destiny, that led to the near genocide of Native Americans. It was through our faith in man that we believed that God condoned the brutal enslavement of millions of African Americans. It was also man's faith in man that allowed Hitler to convinced the German people that God condoned the murder of six million Jews. And more recently, it was through having more faith in George Bush and Dick Cheney than the common sense that God gave us , that the American people were convinced that God condoned the sacrifice of our youth and the blatant murder of 102 thousand innocent Iraqis, who did absolutely nothing to us, other than being in the unfortunate position of possessing the oil that we coveted.
But don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with being spiritual. But always remember, just because a man has the gift of gab and says he's a man of God, that doesn't mean that God sees it that way. God doesn't speak to him any louder than he speaks to you, and no man speaks for God. So whenever you want to hear God's word, just listen to your heart, and God will speak to you directly.
And there's one other thing. While admittedly, I don't speak for God myself, I think I'm pretty safe in saying that God will never tell you to buy another man a big house and a new Cadillac - he didn't do it for Jesus, so why should he do it for these latter-day saints?
And for you zealots out there - Before you start to condemn me, don't forget, God works in mysterious ways, and the truth shall set you free, so maybe you should think about what I'm saying . . . if you're allowed to.
Eric L. Wattree
wattree.blogspot.com Religious bigotry: It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does.
The religious right is a threat to our immortal souls.
I'm sick of being lectured at by those who think Jesus gave the hungry a food stamp form and asked the leper to fill out a Medicaid application.
Jesus is not a God damn conservative!
September 20, 2009 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
God told me to recommend this post.
September 20, 2009 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, LisB.
I thought I was going to be thrown under the bus for this one. But I call my column "Beneath the Spin" because I try to specialize in discussing issues that no one else wants to discuss.
But I just might feel the wheels of the bus yet, since the operations manager of the main paper that I write for has warned me repeatedly (at least 10 times - this year) not to go over 1000 words, and this one is 1549 - and she's a devout Christian.
September 20, 2009 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Mr. Wattree. I appreciated ALL your words, even the 549 extra ones. Keep writing!
September 21, 2009 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lovely -- and clearly superior writing. Even though I'm an agnostic.
On one hand, I've long asked:
Why is it that God only talks to people in the Middle East, and the Southern United Stats?
On the other hand, be forewarned:
God talks to me. In fact, He talked to me no more than five minutes ago, and He said that He does not talk to all those others who claim He does. Unless they agree with me.
September 21, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha!
You know, JNagarya, he just told me the very same thing! It's too bad we don't have a virtual collect plate - we'd be in business. And think about this - we'd never have to worry about anyone coming back to say we're lying. Now, that's what I call the perfect scam.
September 23, 2009 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
So how do we eliminate this threat?
September 20, 2009 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
We shine a light on it, just like I'm doing.
September 20, 2009 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
By enforcing the 1st Amendment and not letting their religious beliefs into the public sphere. Laws and the policies of our government must be based only on a legal foundation...and an individual's or group's relgious morality has no place in the process. People should be free to worship however they see fit but that freedom ends when it comes to making laws or public policy.
September 21, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interstingly, freedom of conscience was secured -- and not for the first time -- in state constitutions adopted during 1776-77, and 1780. The latter was the Massachusetts-Bay constitution, which was the second attempt, because the first attempt didn't include a bill of rights. A prominent voice opposing the first attempt was a Baptist: his complaint: it didn't protect freedom of conscience.
It's also something of an irony. The first Georgia constitution, as example, not only secured freedom of conscience -- and the right not to be compelled to contribute to the building or sustaining of "religions" not one's own -- but prohibted active clergy from holding public office.
And secured the right to preach religion -- so long as not seditious against the state, which was cahracterized as treason.
North Carolina was another Southern constitution which included strict constraints on religion vis-a-vis meddling in politics.
September 21, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's another good point, Libertine. We should also pass legislation mandating that they pay their fair share of taxes. The constitution mentions "freedom of religion", but it didn't say a word about our having to subsidize it.
And about school prayer - Matthew 6:6 says the following:
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
They must have skipped that page.
September 23, 2009 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just repeating my common theme--look beyond the religious right to those paying for the promotion of their agenda.
September 20, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhh,
another article. The GOP is a coalition between fiscal conservatives (big business), and their army, the social conservative wingnuts. But there are problems on their horizon - undocumented workers, that the wingnuts hate, and big business need to undermine the middle class.
September 20, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd!
September 20, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
“The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not”
Eric Hoffer
September 20, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
In spite of what I've written here, I find it quite amusing how many atheists tend to take a condescending attitude towards people who believe in God rather quaint and less than intelligent. But the fact is, when we look upon nature and the universe, the belivers in God have more evidence to support their position than the atheist has to support his.
Personally I do belive in God - not as a matter of faith, but through evidence. Again, we look upon the perfection of nature and the universe, from my point of view, that alone is prima facie evidence that God does exist. Even if he or she doesn't exist in a way that we can conceptualize, to me, whatever force that created the universe, or even the universe itself, is God.
When one looks at it that way, we're no longer discussing whether or God exists, but rather, the nature of his existence.
So for me, a sin is whenever you upset the balance of nature, or God - rather we're talking about destroying the planet, or making your wife miserable. Thus, you don't do what is right to try to stay out of hell, you do what's right because it is right to do what's right, and that's nature's way.
September 20, 2009 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
None of the "evidence" you cite proves anything beyond the existence of itself.
You fail to distinguish between belief and faith. What you believe is actually faith in that for which the "evidence" is neutral.
September 21, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then "existence" itself is God. We can't assume that God is corporeal. One could also argue that the entire universe, including ourselves is one organism - called God.
September 23, 2009 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
One can "argue" whatever one wants -- and that's the problem:
If "God" is perfect and infinite, as "religionists" insist, then we, being imperfect and finite, incapable of comprehending let alone knowing perfection and infinity, cannot "know" there's a "God".
The opposite is also the fact: we can't NOT "know".
That renders the question not merely moot but irrelevant. That leaves one without an abstract posit onto which to slip one's personal responsibility. See Theravadan Buddhism, accesstoinsight.org.
Onto which to slip one's responsibility? I'm pointing at the totalitarian/authoritarian determinism underlying the view. As example, when a football player gets a touchdown, he blames -- yes, blames -- "Gawd" and the "Lawd" (we don't have a monarchy with lords an' dukes an' duchesses an' such . . .). But when he fumbles short of the goal line, he blames himself.
What sort of negative self-esteem/self-denegration does that view instill -- reflect?
If there's a "God," and we are made in "His" image, as alleged, then "He" intended that we use the free will "He" gave us. That means it is more spirited and intelligent -- and perhaps respected by "Him" more than the slavish opposite -- to be agnostic, if not sincerely atheistic. (Does "atheism" really insist that there isn't a "God"? Or does it simply reject man-made "religion"?)
Perhaps more pointedly: Kierkegaard points to the fundamental flaw of all theology (except his own, of course):
It begins with the premise that there "is" a "God," then sets out to logically prove the premise is true. Well, gee, reasoning in a circle is the problem, ain't it!?
His challenge (not only to theologicans) is to begin honestly with the question, "Is there a God?"
But that -- he recognizes -- is the thing of which they are most terrified: entertaining the idea that there isn't. Thus they tiresomely begin with a single uncontrasted premise, which virtually guarantees they will arrive at the conclusion they want: back at the premise.
September 23, 2009 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have me confused. I see your religious leaning in this essay, but can't come to grips with the fact you attack the foundation you stand upon. Personally, I've always believed in the Bible, but not in the way everyone thinks. I believe it's real title is The Owner's Manual for the Human Race. It has nothing to do with God, per se, rather how we should treat one another...with respect. Too bad the message is lost amongst those who cherish the words without ever comprehending the meaning, much less put into practice when they read.
September 21, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Beetlejuice,
What you describe is the difference between religion (see superstition), and spiritualism.
I'm a spiritualist. We tend to use the same vocabulary as the religious, but we tend to forgo the voodo.
You show me a man who believes that Moses parted the Red Sea, and I'll show you a man whose ability to think can't be trusted.
September 23, 2009 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another great post Eric! Really. You are producing some mighty work of late.
A couple of thoughts...
"It's all about saving MY soul from the devil, and what God did or is going to do for ME, instead of what I'm going to do to make this a better world."
Excellent point! Many churches do teach exactly in this way which is far easier than teaching that if we believe in the timeless truths universally taught by all religions that one cannot avoid coming to terms with the fact that enlightenment requires that we serve others as well as ourselves instead of being solely concerned just about ourselves or saving our own souls and then somehow being relieved of responsibility for our fellow human beings or what is going on in the world around us. But there are other churches and religions that do not shy away from this. These churches preach as you are advocating and they do not concentrate on the message of me, me, me that fills the pews and the coffers at the mega-churches for example, or the other religious straings that focus on personal salvation as the goal rather than loving service on behalf of others and a constant recognition of the interdependence of the human family and our responsibility within it.
"But the church has a vested interest in discounting evolution, because it's in direct conflict with their version of creation."
"The church" is, IMHO, the wrong phrase here since this characterization does not accurately describe many liberal religious traditions which embrace science generally and evolution in particular. "Some churches" might be a better way to say it or you could say "the fundamentalist church" which would be accurate.
"Thus, some of the most serious problems that we have in the world today is a direct result of our organized religious leaders having our minds on lockdown. Their activity in that regard is a direct assault on the will of God, since God clearly made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to think. We know this, because all of the evidence available to man shows that God made man's ability to think the key to our survival."
Again, "some" organized religious leaders might be a better way to put it since not all do this and in fact some actively encourage the viewpoint you are eloquently espousing about using the gift of critical thinking that the creator of the universe bestowed upon us all.
"So for us to now allow man to come along and tell us that we should suspend our nature as thinking beings, and "have faith" in what he tells us, is a slap in the face of God. By doing so, we're showing more faith in what man says, than what God has done - and that is the source of all of our problems, we're not remaining true to our nature."
I love those words of yours especially! In the Bible it says: "it will be written on (or in) their hearts." Which is a way of saying that people already know God's will if only they will use their brains and see the obvious. Another way to think of this is that through the proper use of our rational brains and the skillful use of its capacity, we can now determine this for ourselves and know, at least, who not to listen to.
Your words have the same ring of righteous indignation and genuine outrage that so many religious dissenters have had in the past against the intellectual restraints of hierarchies and dogma and rightly so! Believe it or not, many of the greatest voices of rebellion in the history of Christianity have had this same ring to them whether it was Jesus himself, the extraordinary St. Francis of Assissi or other brave monks, priests and sisters through the ages, some of the more revolutionary leaders of the reformation era against the iron grip of dogma and corruption afflicting the Roman church in their day, the Puritans of England, the Huguenots of France, Martin Luther King, the Berrigan Brothers, and so on.
Bravo Eric! Great post! From your mind to the ears of those who so desperately need to hear this message!
September 20, 2009 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Oleeb.
And maybeI did use too braod a brush. I though my title and repeated us of the word "zealot" made it clear that I was mainly referring to the religious right. But one should never take shortcuts in one's writing.
You seem to be very knowledgable in theology. I would love to read a post by you on this subject. I might be able to pickup a little knowledge that I could use in future writings. Religious manipulation is a subject that hits a raw nerve with me, so I know I'll be writing on this subject again.
As for your last paragraph, unfortunately, those who need to hear it most have cotton in their ears. They're afraid that thinking constitutes a lack of faith, and it might send them to hell.
Man, some of these preachers got it made. And just think, they don't ever have to worry about anyone coming back and saying they're lying.
My late wife and I used to have this debate every Sunday. I used to love playfully irritating her by saying that T.D. Jakes was a pimp (actually, I kinda liked him, but I never let her know it). So we made a deal that if there was life after death, whichever one of us died first (I always assumed it would be me) would come back and let the other one know. Well, it's been four years now, and I haven't seen neither hide nor hair of her. But then, maybe heaven's a few light years away.
I'll keep you posted.
September 20, 2009 10:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just think it important to distinguish between the hucksters using religion to sell snake oil and those who are trying to convey some real wisdom and insight into our lives for the betterment of all. You really zeroed in on one of the most telling differences between the two and that is the focus on one's self in a small and fearful way as opposed to focusing on loving God's creation and our fellow human beings.
It is easy to misuse religion. That is self evident. It is difficult to convey religious beliefs while protecting against their misuse.
It's a common oversight IMO that people often lump religious groups and people together despite significant differences. It always sticks in my craw, for example, when people use the universal term "Christian" when they are really only describing fundamentalist Christians or when the term "the church" is used in a blanket way when really the reference is to only a particular denomination or school of belief within Christianity.
It was clear to me that you were referring to the extremist zealots, but to many people, unless a distinction is made for them between the zealot and those who are not that way, they will assume that all religious people fall into that category simply because they are not aware of the difference. That's the only reason I suggested the qualifiers.
I sure don't know the answers, but I do know that no religion has a corner on the truth. I am grateful that I was brought up in a religious tradition that was not afraid of intellectual inquiry but that welcomed it, in fact, demanded it! Anyone who believes that they or their chosen religious group has the exclusive franchise on the truth is trapped in a dogmatic prison and thus blind to the truth. I know when religion is used to build empires and fortunes for its leaders then it is a religion being misused and perverted by corrupt leadership. I know that any religious group or leader who is not humble before God and humans but is instead filled with ego and pride and surrounds him or her self with the trappings of personal wealth and power is not to be trusted. For example, I belive the Dalai Lama is paid tremendous respect and has tremendous moral authority because of his humility and his obvious respect for others. Contrast that with any of the dancing bears of televangelism. They are anything but humble and everything about them is a demand for respect as opposed to offering respect to others.
There are many paths to the truth but they all have some common features including tolerance, fearless rejection of blind obedience to petrified opinion and dogma of all kinds, an open attitude toward intellectual inquiry and the use of reason to evaluate circumstances, facts, and so on. People of goodwill, regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof can always work together toward common, universal goals for the benefit of all. There is no need for dogma, there is no need for the primacy of one set of beliefs over another, there is no need for religious conflict if respect is the watchword all round.
I'm sorry to hear of the passing of your wife. I cannot imagine what that must be like. I've lost other loved ones though and of course, we will all find out soon enough whether we will all get together and compare notes and share observations once again.
About a year or so ago I heard a program on religion on the local NPR station one Sunday morning. The host was interviewing an astronomer who was not a believer of any religion. Still, the host was discussing the topic with her from some interesting angles. The astronomer said something that stuck with me about the miraculous circumstances of all our lives and of life in general here on earth. She said that she thought people should take some time to appreciate what we know for certain about who we are and how we came about. She said that we are all made from stardust, literally speaking. As such we can literally be thought of as starchildren. That the debris and dust from the sun is what we are made of, that we are animated in large part by the energy of the sun and without it we would not exist and that generally speaking our form of life is a rare and extraordinary thing indeed as is all life on earth. Perhaps that isn't terribly profound stuff but it got my attention, made me see things a little differently than I had before and seemed to speak to me anyway.
Like ML King, I believe the moral universe to be as real as the physical universe. I believe it important perhaps in ways we will never know but that we must treat our fellow creatures in ways that are morally and ethically acceptable simply because it is the right and moral and ethical thing to do. As you indicated above, that is what we owe God's creation. It seems to me any sentient being would recognize this simple proposition is true. Much can spring from this but in essence we don't really need to know a whole lot more do we? We can take this much and be able to conduct ourselves in morally and ethically sound ways.
Any set of religious beliefs or any religious group that departs from this general zone of belief does not ring true to me.
September 21, 2009 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow!
Oleeb, I consider what you just said profound eloquence, and it is exactly what I believe.
We are indeed star-children. Every molocule in our body was created in a star, and in that regard, since matter cannot be destroyed, we will all exist, in some form, throughout eternity.
For me, that point alone is more awe-inspiring than anything written in the Bible, or any other book.
September 23, 2009 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Over my 66 years of life, I've seen death in many forms. I would like to say I'm wiser, perhaps, in dealing with "the finds of life." But, in no way, can I explain the "spark of life!" As a result, I no longer hunt and return all fish to the river. No, I have not attended church in years...Only a couple of funerals which I, hesitantly, attended. Yet, when my son was in ICU for 51 days, I spent hours in the hospitals' chapel...And I prayed. I fear no man nor organization. Yet, what a glorious 66 years I have experienced! What a wonderful world! So I keep thanking this illusory god for giving me the experience. Should I give myself all of the credit?
September 20, 2009 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chuck,
What a beautiful testament.
Both your experience, and your attitude towards seems to reflect my own.
And I don't even kill insects. You should have seen me trying to catch a cricket in my kitchen the other night. I finally flushed him out from behind the refrigerator, but I didn't have the heart to step on him, so I tried to catch him with a plastic bag.
Man, you haven't lived until you've had one of those things decides to come in the house and serenade you to sleep at night. They'll stop just long enough to remind you of the sweet sound of silence. Then just as you're finally dozing off, they'll start up again.
But those things sure can jump. I never did catch him. I finally decided to give him the house for the night and went to sleep in my motor home. But that turned out to be pretty nice, so I do that quite often now - even without being evicted.
September 20, 2009 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live on the Mississippi river. I love to fish. Overlooking the river is a graveyard where many of my loved-ones are interred. In some cases, I watched them draw their last breath. I have been in the military and have also come upon the scenes of fatal accidents. If one lives..We must, also, accept death.
We must deal with death, but if possible, never cause death. The cricket would have survived your ordeal with me. I, safely, evict spiders, but I do swat flies.
As I previously stated...I fish. No more live bait! No minnows or night crawlers. The closer I move toward my own demise, the more I respect the miracle of life...Damn! What a ride!
I believe in the theory of evolution. Yet, my experiences nudge me to believe that there is "another" force that has affected my life. I have no control over my destiny. and I am one tough SOB...Yet I pray. Go figure.
September 21, 2009 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Outstanding. Amen!
Rec'd!
September 20, 2009 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Aunt Sam(?).
I sincerely hope that stands for Samantha. :>)
September 20, 2009 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very well put. I'm not religious but some of my best friends are. I, too, try not to paint religion with a broad brush. I'm always surprised, thought, that the mainstream churches don't come out against the most vocal faux-religious zealots. It seems to me it would be in their best interests to condemn that kind of sacrilege. It's too easy to put ALL religion in the same basket when a group of fakers makes all the noise.
Some churches and their congregations do an enormous amount of good work, but they are not the ones we hear about. That's too bad.
But I have to say that religion as a whole, in all its historic bigotry and intolerance, creates its own bad name. They have a tendency to leave God out, even as they speak His name.
September 20, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh oh, it's late and I should have been in bed long ago. That's my excuse for saying I try not to paint religion with a broad brush, and then I do it in my last paragraph.
I'm going to let the last paragraph stand. I've read it again and it's what I meant to say.
September 20, 2009 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course it wasn't meant to be taken literaly, it was meant to refer to all any manufacturor of diary products
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jV8QQSlEq8
September 21, 2009 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wattree, this is an eloquent and intelligent piece of writing and reflects a lot of my own feelings about religion. Thank you for publishing this for all to read and savor.
September 21, 2009 5:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Jan.
It was my pleasure. It's time we start fighting back. Washington doesn't see the wisdom of reinstating the the Fairness Doctrine, so I guess we'll have to create our own here on the net.
September 21, 2009 7:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
As best as I can tell, there is no correlation between religion and spirituality.
I seems that man's biggest problem is the belief in separation: we think in terms of God and me rather than God as me. If indeed God created the universe then are we not one with all life? Are we not all one? Yet we cling tenaciously to the one concept that makes us miserable, hateful and destructive: separation. We believe we are separate from nature, separate from each other and separate from God. To accept one simple truth, we are all one, would change the way man lives on this planet.
There's an old joke that the optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds and the pessimist is afraid he's right. One of the assumptions our culture takes for granted is that man is the pinnacle of evolution. We are the end product of how ever many billions of years this process has been going on. Hmmm.... It makes me wonder if this is what God had in mind.
Jesus' teaching was pretty simple: love God and love one another. We are all one.
September 21, 2009 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
TJ, that is as profound an indictment of religion as I've ever heard. "We think in terms of God and me rather than God as me." Brilliant.
And this: "To accept one simple truth, we are all one, would change the way man lives on this planet."
It takes my breath away. Thank you.
September 21, 2009 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Namaste
September 21, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I remember an illustration that defined people’s attitudes about religion.
Charlie Brown was in the back yard, shooting arrows at the fence. After the arrow hit the fence, Charlie would run over and paint the target around the arrow. This went on for hours.
Lucy having watched this go on and on, ran over and told Charlie “why are you doing it that way? You’re supposed to aim at the target."
Charlie replied “I hit the mark every time."
As Christians we are to strive to hit the mark. Our target; to bring our lives into harmony with his will, and to follow the model left by Jesus Christ.
People don’t conform to religion; they want religion to conform to them.
September 21, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just religion, though it's more obvious in religion. The problem is humanity's refusal to accept it's own humanity. Our barbaric side as well as our civilized side. And we are much closer to our barbaric side. We just refuse to really look at it.
Science fiction has show this many times. Star Trek's "A Taste of Armageddon" where the people of Eminiar and Vendikar had been ar war for 500 years but and computerized it so they did not have to actually be at war.
Or Forbidden Planet where Morbius refused to accept that He was the faceless muduring monster.
We do the same thing by writing Amendments into our religions. All of which are very clear about life and death, right and wrong.
Killing is bad...except. Life is good...except...love thy neighbor...except...do not steal...except...and on and on.
I cannot even say we are hypocritical since that word does not seem to fit because we are constantly amending the amendments.
More Schizoid than anything else.
And we justify this behavior even with in our own laws and legal system.
In order for humanity to make any kind of progress on the social, economic and emotional fronts we must first be willing to honestly accept that we are not nearly as civilized as we pretend to be. To accept our inhumanity and mindless primitive side and start to deal with it - instead of trying to ignore or justify it.
C
September 21, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you all are misinterpreting the purpose, function, and content of religion. And the O.P. seems to miss out on faith, without which religion is glorified freemasonry.
Faith is belief without evidence, even in spite of evidence. Subjecting it to "logical and objective scrutiny" is precisely the wrong thing to do, because by doing so, you've already failed. The failure of belief is not that it does not stand up to scrutiny, but that it would be scrutinized.
Of course the O.P. was a Christian because his parents were. That's how most people come by their faith ("because my spouse was" being a distant second). Path dependence is not an indictment of faith.
Anyway, I don't think much more of the Dobsons of the world than the O.P., but I think quite a bit more of the concept of faith.
September 21, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Faith is belief without evidence, even in spite of evidence."
Substitute the word "prejudice" for the word "faith", and you'll see why that argument is specious.
Belief in what? Ask any faithful pilgrim and you'll come up with a different interpretation. That's why "faith" is such an easy word to abuse. Every action by the faux-religious can be based on their absolute faith that what they're doing is right.
September 21, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
(Hebrews 11:1-3) . . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for,
the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. 2 For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.
3 By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by God’s word, so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear. . .
September 21, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course it is.
I don't understand your point. I'm not arguing that faith based reasoning is better than logical reasoning. Nor am I arguing that it -is- logical reasoning.
I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make any sense to apply logical reasoning to faith. If you're doing that, you've -already- abandoned faith.
People believe in what they believe in, it is as simple as that. Some of us believe in logic and empirical data, and treat those tools as the ultimate arbiters of right and wrong. Others believe there are more important things than logic and empirical data.
Drawing moral relevance from, say, mortality statistics is no more appropriate than drawing moral relevance from really old books. It's just a different moral framework.
September 21, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I misunderstood. Got it now.
September 21, 2009 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
FYI to Eric and others...
I just heard the very tail end of the NPR Program Fresh Air with Terri Gross. The guest was a woman named Karen Armstrong an author and ex-nun. She was discussing a number of things quite relevant to this post. I would highly recommend listening in to anyone regardless of one's beliefs. This woman had some extremely interesting things to say about God, religion, the purpose of religion and helping humanity to realize it's purpose.
September 21, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a link to the website where you can listen to the broadcast if you like. I should have included this above. C'est la vie!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13
September 21, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell me Wattree.
What do you call the relationship of Adam and Eve with their Father? Is this religion?
I think it credulity to accept the theory of evolution as fact; it takes more faith to believe in men who promote this theory, who whose sole purpose is to undermine belief in a Creator.
Oh they'll say God used Evolution, but the God of the Bible clearly states he made man and woman.
So now some men question or call God a liar. "No you didn’t' do it that way, we know for a certainty you used evolution." How dare they.
Almighty God has never completely abandoned righteous individuals.
You wrote "One would think that any clear-thinking person would recognize that God - or Nature, if you will - provided us with a sense of ethics, common sense, and empathy to guide us through life, so man doesn't require a users guide"
Who told you that? We are children; do we not teach our own children continually? Some mature faster than others, but do we not need constant reminders? This is how God’s Word the Bible, becomes our guide. We don’t know everything. Some people think they do, and those who follow such ones, are following blind guides.
You wrote “But the church has a vested interest in discounting evolution, .... But religious leaders don't care about glorifying God - they're only interested in saving face"
Lets talk about role reversal. Evolutionists want to undermine God's role in the creation of all things. God tells me it was HE that made Adam and Eve and some punk, comes along and calls him/ me a liar?" How dare them, stealing my right to the credit and honor and the praise for my works.
Evolution is a threat to God's written word, sold out in favor of some philosophy, an unfounded theory, looking under rocks in order to prove me a liar.
God say's to you deaf and dumb ones I created ADAM and EVE How loud must he scream in order for you to hear.
You then wrote, “Thus, it was clearly God's will that we be logical, thinking beings. So for us to now “ “allow man” “ to come along and tell us that we should suspend our nature as thinking beings, and "have faith" in what he tells us, is a slap in the face of God.
What? We should have faith in what he tells us, and then somehow I should suspend this thought and accept evolution? A man made theory? You’re absolutely correct; talk about a slap in the face.
You then wrote, “God doesn't speak to him any louder than he speaks to you. No man speaks for God, so whenever you want to hear God's word, just listen to your heart, and God will speak to you directly.
I am a Christian and the only way I can accept and believe in the Holy Scriptures, is my belief that Jesus did speak for his father. Without accepting this fact the Bible could never be understood, because it all centered on the seed of Abraham, the eventual seed being made king, sitting at the right hand of God, this one called Jesus Christ
To the Christian we listen to the voice of his appointed shepherds, I prefer to believe this is a natural thing, and not an organized religion thing.
But as Moses led the throng of released slaves from out of Egypt, I guess one could call them Organized, And when Korah thought he didn’t need to listen to Moses, and he thought he could hear and speak for God, he found out quick enough, he was pretentious and he worked against God's will. The Earth swallowed him up, along with his false organization of followers.
The key to individual salvation, (John 17:3) . . .This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. . .
ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE ESSENTIAL
(Romans 1:28-32) 28 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, 29 filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless. 32 Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.
They did not want to follow the Guidebook, or to find the Accurate Knowledge
The Religious Right: A Threat to America?
No the real threat is All who do not know the Law of God, are just as guilty as the Religious Right.
September 21, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance, you're missing the point of Wattree's post. He is speaking from his own point of view. He is speaking of religious intolerance and you may not even recognize it, but your response is a perfect example of religious intolerance.
You can't come at this as if only you are right because you believe in the word of the bible, and everyone who doesn't is wrong.
You might want to read Wattree's post again. You're railing against something that isn't even there. Nowhere in his post does he speak against God.
The religious right IS a threat to America, just as any form of intolerance is. There's nothing Godly about it.
September 21, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are absolutely correct if you think I am intolerant of so called christians. (c)
They dishonor the TRUE God and the one whom he sent forth Jesus.
Like Judas of old who turned Jesus over to be crucified.
Today’s false Christians, adulterate the Word of God and they would as easily turn against Christ's spiritual brothers even today, just as Judas.
(Matthew 7:21-23) . . .Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness. . .
Jesus wasn't talking to Buddhists; he was talking to professed Christians.
Example. Who told you, the Christian God made people burn in hell? How many lives or souls will be turned away from loving my Father because of this malicious lie?
Or this preposterous lie "once saved always saved." Ask Judas?
This is why the apostle Paul stated the need for "ACCURATE" KNOWLEDGE.
The Antichrist has slipped in amongst Jesus’ flock and has twisted the word of God for their own designs. Christians were warned to be unguard.
I am intolerant of those who claim to be Christians, and instead of helping to spread Accurate Knowledge, they would rather be spreaders of lies. Causing many souls to be swept away.
Jesus called them Vipers. Doesn’t sound tolerant to me
(Mark 7:6-7) . . .This people honor me with [their] lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 7 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.. . .
If you thought Jesus was intolerant of the money changers in the temple, how much more intolerant will he be when he searches and find so called Christian parishioners teaching and spreading falsehoods, and persecuting TRUE Christians who expose their lies.
(John 4:23-24) . . .”Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.. . .” Worship him with TRUTH,
Why do you presume there is no one doing so? Despite the claim by many who say "who can know the truth"
I read Wattree’s piece and I can only speculate he too was intolerant, of the organized religious leaders who are modeled after the moneychangers.
Did I miss the point; was he a promoter of evolution? If he is claiming to be a Christian and promoting anti Christian beliefs, I will courageously speak up and defend GOD, Is this what you call intolerant; Courage?
God made Adam and Eve. Period , except the truthfulness of that statement or get away from me you workers of lawlessness.
Or should I be hypocritical and have fellowship, with unbelievers or those who hate God?
September 21, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course I believe the Christian faith, or I wouldn't have dedicated my life to be a follower.
September 21, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since you are totally discounting the theory of evolution, let me ask you an age-old question: Did Cain and Abel marry their sisters?
September 21, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like some child, you ask what should be so clear.
Unless you enjoy the salaciousness and if I respond, whom else do you suppose they would have married?
Then you'll run off and find an old National Geographic Magazine and giggle?
September 21, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides, I don't recall Abel having had offspring, he may have been dead by then.
Lay down the Geographic and read the bible accountfor yourself, and then ome back and tell us all, what you have learned.
Be constructive to the conversation.
September 21, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Permit me another childish question: How come some people are light, some are brown, some are black, some are olive,etc?
September 21, 2009 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Genetics. Within Adams loins his DNA contained all the possibilities. It is said that within one cell, thousands of genes, the transmitters of hereditary traits, can create differences.
Imagine; A Sperm cell injected from a male, into a female reproductive organ, fertilizing an egg and developing in a womb, attached by an umbilical chord.
Yeah right! Evolution figured that one out all by itself?
I’d prefer the simple statement God Created.
Variant species can be attributed to language and geographical differences.
Evolutions convoluted theory:
By Chance the right chemical combination, by Chance the right atmospheric conditions, by Chance occurred at the right time.
By chance we might get Idiots to believe this, convincing many, GOD lied when he said he did it.
Life begets Life, ever seen anything to suggest otherwise?
September 21, 2009 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am speechless. I have no idea how I could possibly respond.
September 21, 2009 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance, you said:
"By chance we might get Idiots to believe this, convincing many, GOD lied when he said he did it."
God Lied?
You're assuming facts not in evidence. You have yet to prove that God spoke.
And beyond that, it is only through man's incredible arrogance that he would assume that God would bother to speak to him. Look out in the night sky sometime, man! Earth is located in the ghetto of an insignifican galaxy.
Yet, even though this galaxy is insignificant, it's one hundred light years across. That is, it would take light travelling at 186,000 miles per second, one hundred years to cross it. And it contains more stars than there are grains of sand on evey beach on Earth. Then, there are more such galaxies in just (our) universe (scientists suspect there are others) than there are grains of sand on every beach in the world - and you believe man is so significant that God would want to talk to us?
Let me ask you - would you tap dance before the germs on your toilet seat to try to get them to worship you? Then what makes you think God would?
September 22, 2009 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance,
Pardon me, I mis-spoke. The distance across our galaxy is 100,000 light years. If someone left from the other side of our galaxy traveling at the speed of light when the dinosaurs were walking the Earth, they still have 35,000 more years to travel before they got here - and they're coming from our own neighborhood.
So when we look at what God represents, it becomes clear that the only thing in nature larger than the universe is man's ego. If man thinks that by being a good boy he'll be able to have a Budweiser summit with God someday, he's gonna be mightily disappointed. So we might as well start doing what's right, simply because it's right.
September 22, 2009 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are a man of great patience to respond to Resistance. I ran out.
September 22, 2009 8:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
TJ,
Believe me, I know what your saying. But the Limbaugh, Palin, Beck phenomenon has taught me the danger of becoming so non-judgmental that gross ignorance is allowed to go unchallenged.
One of the biggest mistakes progressives have made over the past 20 years was to assume that ignorance would work itself out in the end. That is simply not true. If progressives haven't learned anything else since the Reagan era, we certainly should have learned that Ignorance, left to its own devices, begets ever more pronounced ignorance.
September 22, 2009 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
You ran out, because you couldn't defend your position in the debate.
It isn’t that you lack patience, it’s that you don’t like to hear the Truth. You might have to reason and it must be too difficult to draw upon any knowledge or lack of knowledge.
While you may have thought you had a complex question, as though to embarrass me. It is not I that should be ashamed.
Evidently, your true objective for the question was to drag Cain and Able into your sexually oriented fantasy, about incest.
Would it be any different if your imagined Glob of evolutionary matter, would not have had to deal with the same question? TJ's posed question
"Did Cain and Abel marry their sisters?"
Let alone, not only did the glob or matter, have to have a male AND a female counterpart, what are the odds? How do you suppose under your hypothesis, your evolutionary soup assured the species propagated?
I wouldn’t say your problem was lack of Patience. It’s more probable; it’s a lack of Gray matter.
Never to late to learn, but it does require honesty and a willingness to learn.
September 22, 2009 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since you seem to want to divide up your thoughts, I'll address each segment you wrote
Wattree's words in quotation
MY REPLY: Of course everybody look, Wattree has called “God a liar”. The great and powerful Oz Wattree has declared it so.
“You're assuming facts not in evidence. You have yet to prove that God spoke”.
MY REPLY: Why should he speak to you? You wouldn’t listen anyway. Or is it you who haven’t called him anything, but a liar. I guess that would shut off lines of communications in your world?
"And beyond that, it is only through man's incredible arrogance"
MY REPLY:“Man’s incredible arrogance”, now that’s too funny. Coming from someone familiar with arrogance. Incredible indeed.
Then I don’t know what all the rest of your musings proved, except someone “Created the Heavens you see at night”.
MY REPLY: Yeah! overstate the obvious.
But this part should have humbled you, as it has me “ and you believe man is so significant that God would want to talk to us?”
MY REPLY: Yes, isn’t that the greatest relationship in the World, the whole Universe. The most powerful entity, wants to communicate and have a relationship with insignificant ME.
Then you write “Let me ask you - would you tap dance before the germs on your toilet seat to try to get them to worship you?"
MY REPLY: I am truly honored and humbled
Oh by the way! Did you ever realize it was you on the toilet or in it, asking God to do a tap dance for you?
Why would I expect God, to do anything more than give me life and how to direct it? Teaching me how to not become as the rest, who would trample or treat as nothing, the ability to have a close relationship to a father, MY Loving heavenly Father, my creator. Who would open his hand and bestow upon me wondrous things to behold, sharing them and listening to little old me tell him about my troubles, proving and showing me how to trust in him.
Like my father comforting me and saying there, there, my son, do not despair at the evil around you, I am here, so do not fear, that big bad man causing trouble, I’ll take care of him.
Just because some of my siblings would dishonor our father, I won’t.
September 22, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance,
An old English teacher of mine used to repeatedly say to me, “Eric, don’t tell me what you mean, show me.” So allow me to attempt to show you the difference between the use of logic, which I believe is God’s will, and faith, which I’m convinced is a manipulative tool of man.
Christianity contends that there is a heaven and hell, and if one adheres to a given standard that one is assured of going to heaven rather than burn in hell. So we’re going to go with that for the sake of discussion.
Now, if we can all accept that God knows all, and he cannot be wrong, I’d like to pose a question.
If God knew a billion years before Billy would born, that Billy would live, then die, and then ultimately end up in hell, is there anything that Billy can do in life to make God wrong about his ultimate fate?
If Christian is doctrine is correct and Billy can save himself by the way he conducts his life, then God is not infallible. But if Billy cannot save himself since God already knows that he’s going to be bubbling in hell, then religious doctrine is meaningless.
September 22, 2009 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/wattree/2009/09/the-religious-right-a-threat-t.php#comment-3610013
September 22, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance,
I consider the relationship between Adam and Eve fairytale, plain and simple. And before it comes up, I consider the Devil an adult version of the Boogyman, and used for the very same purpose.
I'm more worried about Dick Cheney than I am the Devil.
September 23, 2009 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is it because you don't see the Demonic influence upon Cheney? Can you not see the demonic influence upon our wicked world, filled with demonic influence?
Demons are invisible,
Just as man didn’t want to believe in microorganisms until the invention of the microscope, would you have questioned spontaneous generation too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation
September 23, 2009 7:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
My mistake,
Would you have been as active, quashing or shutting down as nonsense, any one who questioned the theory of Spontaneous Generation?
As you appear to be doing with those with a capacity to understand, what you don't or won't, that mankind was created by a divine being. So because he is invisible, you won’t believe it?
There is an invisible spirit realm, and it would be arrogant, as you put it to believe man is the only creature with a mind, with intent.
Is it your wish to ignore the intent of the wicked spirit forces, intent on your destruction?
You'll find out your like the illustration of the Bird catcher, who sets his trap out and the little bird unsuspecting the danger, walks straight into the trap. To be devoured.
September 23, 2009 8:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
If man didn't fear death, most churches would either be parking lots, or used as bastions of bigotry and intolerance.
"It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does."
September 22, 2009 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
"It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does."
My God is not that way.
In fact in his recorded words he states as much.
So, if your interested in hearing the Accurate Truth about my God; or if you're satified in believing lies told by liars, about him, it's your choice. You are not forced to accept one or the other, but you do have to make a choice.
One choice gives you life one causes your death.
Besides wouldn't you rather live in a world free from hate. A world filled with Love.
What would your reaction be if someone you never knew, went around spreading malicious rumors about you, in order to discredit you before others. Liars telling others how hateful you were or how you treat people, or stay away from him he's cruel and other lies.
Would you not want an opportunity to set the record straight?
When God ask's who will tell the people I am not that way. I said "Here I am, send Me" I will declare how loving you are and I'll expose the liars.
September 22, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You wrote, "Christianity contends that there is a heaven and hell, and if one adheres to a given standard that one is assured of going to heaven rather than burn in hell"
Your supposition is false. If you said some PROFESSED Christians believe in heaven and Hell that would be a truth.
But as I have pointed out before, just because someone claims to be a Christian, doesn’t mean they really are. Is this not a TRUTH?
Just because some claim to have knowledge of God, one should really ask, do they have an ACCURATE knowledge?
If you were one wanting to seek advice, on any matter whether it would be on taxes or legal matters, would you not first find out, are they really who they say they are, or are they a fraud? Of course you’d be wary.
Why would you think it any different if one was saying trust us, with your salvation.
Would it not behoove you to ask, what do you teach, is it in harmony with God’s Word the Bible?
Now here’s what God’s word say’s about HELL. It is not a fiery place of torment.
Now why would some churches tell you it is? What is to be gained by them, for telling you lies.
Do you want God’s word? (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
There is no suffering in Hell, for what reason do men tell you there is? The liars want your money.
Now just because some so called Christians, fraudulent Christians lie, doesn’t mean they’re aren’t those who tell the TRUTH, according to ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE
As for the soul named Billy you wrote; " is there anything that Billy can do in life"
Absolutely, Billy could bring his life into harmony with the rest of creation, doing the will of God, which bings not only benefits to Billy now, and but the rest of Humanity benefits as well because billy has transformed himself to reflect God's Love, he also is finding favor in God's eyes. Becoming a friend to the only one that can decide Billy's eternal fate. Life or Death.
Just as Billy has a decision to make, so do we all. The only thing any individual needs to keep in mind; WILL YOU BE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
How do you get your name written in the book? Please the one with the pen. Will you be resurrected or will you remain as dust?
September 22, 2009 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance,
I’m sure that you’re a very well-meaning person, but your incoherent and disjointed ramblings having an “accurate knowledge” of God reinforces the point of my post more eloquently than I could ever hope. Somewhere along the line you’ve been brainwashed into a totally unthinking existence.
In fact, you could serve as a poster child for the very people I’ve discussed who have been convinced that independent and objective thought constitutes a sin, and is an abomination against the very God who saw fit to provide you with the tools for analytical thought.
But I must say this: You have indeed served as an instrument of God tonight - you've made me feel blessed.
September 22, 2009 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
You’re absolutely correct I have been brainwashed; cleansed of all the filth and the lies. Brainwashed to remove hatred of others, seeking to create a world of peace and brotherhood.
No I will not accept evolutions pitiful solutions, of only the fittest survive.
Looking in the mirror and saying to myself "How can I expect a better world, if I am not willing to change the only one I have control over, myself"
Whereas for you; will you only complain about the Right, yet never seeing your just as guilty.
September 23, 2009 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance, you said:
"Just because some claim to have knowledge of God, one should really ask, do they have an ACCURATE knowledge?" You went on to say, "Would it not behoove you to ask, what do you teach, is it in harmony with God’s Word the Bible?"
This is the one thing that you've said here that I'm in total agreement with - that one should ask one's self do these people have "ACCURATE knowledge." Now, what evidence do you have that the Bible is "God's word" - other than the Bible says it is? And please don't start quoting scripture, since you can't defend the Bible by using the Bible in it's own defense.
With regard to my question you said the following:
"Absolutely, Billy could bring his life into harmony with the rest of creation, doing the will of God, which bings not only benefits to Billy now, and but the rest of Humanity benefits as well because billy has transformed himself to reflect God's Love, he also is finding favor in God's eyes. Becoming a friend to the only one that can decide Billy's eternal fate. Life or Death."
Thus, you're saying that Billy can prevent himself from going to hell in spite of the fact that God knows that Billy's going to hell one billion years before Billy is even born. So according to what you've said, God is not infallable, and can be outwitted by man.
That seems to be against a TRUE Christian would believe. So now I have to follow your prescription and ask myself are you a true christian with an "ACURRATE KNOWLEDGE" of God, or just another phony.
September 22, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
If we examine deeply the Title of your work: The Religious Right: A Threat to America
I agree they are a threat, but the threat can be overcome, using Accurate Knowledge.
If the Christian Right is going to rely on the Bible, I too am trained in its use.
So I don’t suggest people of other faiths don’t have a basis for their hope or faith. I am only presenting to people who claim to be followers of the Word of God as found in the Bible.
Other faiths can be challenged by historical events, such as the spreading out of mankind, carrying with its false doctrines, perpetrated and allowed to spread from the Plains of Shinar, the famed location of the Tower of Babel, in ancient Babylon. But that is best left for another discussion
Your main focus was the Religious Right?
Yet, I say many of today’s problems could be solved, not just focusing on the rights faults, but our society as a whole could benefit if false Religion was exposed.
But lets focus on the Christian Right for this discussion and eliminate the threat.
So then I can say to other so called Christians, "Open your Bibles, Please, and show me your knowledge and I’ll show you accurate knowledge."
Now one of two things happens, either they see their teachers are false, and they proceed to make the necessary changes. To becoming TRUE Christians, filled with and truly displaying the love, their leader told them to do; or, I have exposed them as False christians. They’re not even Christians. No longer able to hide behind they’re so called authority, that supposedly comes from GOD. Yet I show them the Christ rejects them.
Does that make sense?
Example of “How the Truth will set you free”
You wrote "Thus, you're saying that Billy can prevent himself from going to hell in spite of the fact that God knows that Billy's going to hell one billion years before Billy is even born. So according to what you've said, God is not infallable, and can be outwitted by man."
There are two elements to your position, one of them dealing with predestination?
I will not go there, unless you want a further discussion.
What you have been told about Hell, should be questioned.
I will use the Christian Scriptures to prove TRUE Christians don’t believe in a fiery Hell.
(Revelation 20:13-15) . . .And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha′des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire. . .
1) And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire.
The Greek word Hades is rendered “hell” and the Hebrew word Sheol is rendered “hell,” “grave,”in the King James Version.
1A Hades another term for Hell, is thrown into the lake of fire?
This same lake of fire, False Christians teach as HELL
Hell is thrown into Hell?
Or to put it another way the lake of fire is thrown into the lake of fire?
You want to talk about illogical.
So a sincere person would have to delve deeper,
So how can it be, that Hell (Lake of fire) is thrown into the lake of fire?
It’s because False Christians are teaching something that is wrong. They are mistaken and if it is pointed out to them, it is they’re decision to either accept the Truth of Accurate knowledge or believe the lie.
A truth: There is a hell and Accurate knowledge of the Bible tells you it is only a grave and not a fiery lake of fire.
So when you write “Thus, you're saying that Billy can prevent himself from going to hell in spite of the fact that God knows that Billy's going to hell one billion years before Billy is even born.”
Yes Billy is going to hell (Grave) like every other being on Earth, he’s going to die and go to the Grave. Accurate knowledge.
But if you’re still insisting Billy is going to Hell (a place of fire) that is a false teaching. Not based upon Accurate Knowledge.
The lake of fire is symbolism, for complete removal.
(Revelation 21:3-4) . . .With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,
and death will be no more,
neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.. . .
Death will be no more, because it was thrown into the lake of fire. No more, done away with. Take a hundred Dollar bill and burn it completely to ash, what’s it worth. Nothing it’s gone. Burned up in a lake of fire.
Now that’s how you use the Bible to separate the right from they’re God, because they don’t really have one, they believe in lies. The Christian Right needs to ask themselves What does the Bible really Teach.
September 22, 2009 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance,
You cannot use the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible. Common Sense 101.
September 23, 2009 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I could ask you, why do you believe in wind? in electricity? Or in the law of gravity? Have you ever seen them? Is it a sound reason to deny God’s existence, because no man has seen God?
Moving along,
My last article was intended to prove the validity of those claiming to be Christians.
I did not offer proof of the validity of the Bible during that particular discussion.
The Holy Scriptures of the Bible is a book for Christians, because Christianity is a religion that is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the belief that he was the son of God.
So you absolutely can use the Bible as a benchmark. (How did you so kindly put it? common sense 101)
The only real source accepted by Christians, to teach other Christians, how to be footstep followers of Jesus’ conduct, would be the Bible.
Historian Will Durant speaking about early Christians “Into the moral vacuum of a dying paganism, into the coldness of Stoicism and the corruption of Epicureanism, into a world sick of brutality, cruelty, oppression, and sexual chaos, into a pacified empire that seemed no longer to need the masculine virtues or the gods of war, it brought a new morality of brotherhood, kindliness, decency, and peace.”
Dr. James Hastings in A Dictionary of the Bible “It never occurred to any writer of the Old Testament, the Hebrew Scriptures to prove or argue the existence of God,” further saying “It is not according to the spirit of the ancient world in general to deny the existence of God, or to use arguments to prove it. The belief was one natural to the human mind and common to all men.
Like the old saying goes, only a fool judges a book by its cover.
Every Christian should know what's contained within its pages. Looking at the cover does not make one a Christian, and a critic looking at the cover is valueless.
I would think the validity of a critic, should be based upon whether they had read the book.
Imagine reading a critical review of a book or a movie, and then finding out the critic was only offering his opinion, based upon someone else's opinion. Having never read the book or seen the movie themselves.
Now that would be a blind guide.
Those choosing to be Christians use the Bible because it a unique source of knowledge, its practical counsel can help us to live meaningful and happy lives. It answers questions that humans have long pondered, where did we come from? what is the purpose of life? How can we find happiness in life? What about the future
Not listening to critics who have never read it. Many have examined the evidence for themselves, and have concluded that the Bible is from God.
Many have found after a process of learning, meditating and experiencing the value of its wisdom, it’s really a book for all people, not just Christians
September 23, 2009 7:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Resistance, You said:
"I could ask you, why do you believe in wind? in electricity? Or in the law of gravity? Have you ever seen them? Is it a sound reason to deny God’s existence, because no man has seen God?"
That question only goes to demonstrate how incredibly shallow you are as a thinker. First of all, I never challenged the existance of God. We're discussing your contention that the Bible has provided you with an "acurrate knowledge" of God.
But for the sake of argument, let's say that I was challenging the existence of God. The argument that you put forth only goes to prove how intellectually challenged you are in the area of logical syllogisms.
You put for the following syllogism:
We can't see gravity, but gravity exists. Therefore, since we can't see the Boogeyman, the Boogeyman exists.
My God, man! With thinking like that, no wonder you're so gullible.
September 23, 2009 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do people really buy the paper you write for?
September 23, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes they do, Resistance.
The fact is, I write for several papers across the country - and one of them is conservative, and the publisher told me that his wife is my biggest fan. He said, she's trying to help him to see the light.
September 23, 2009 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink