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Glenn Greenwald mocks new State Secrets rule


Slate (9-23-09): "The White House will announce a new policy today requiring career prosecutors and the attorney general to approve any requests to keep information hidden only if its release would significantly harm "national defense or foreign relations."

Glenn Greenwald (9-23-09): ""Checks and balances" in Washington: approvals from Executive branch officials are required for the Executive Branch to assert power."


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Further proof that Twitter is poised to become the last nail in the coffin of rational discourse in this country.

The new guidelines are imperfect. There is a need to empower the court--or at least a court, some Article III judge somewhere in the system, to make an informed decision about as to whether invocation of the privilege is justified by the facts, instead of just having to take the DoJ's word for it. And, they need to be codified into statutory law instead of being rules the next administration--or theoretically even this one--can sweep aside.

But snidely implying this isn't a very significant change in the way things have been done since the State Secrets privilege was invented is both wrong-headed and disengenuious. So is pretending like every AG is going to be the kind of obsequious, fulsome valet that Gonzo was. He's right that it's a potential problem because Republican presidents tend to appoint lockstep toadies to the job--John Mitchell, Ed Meese and John Ashcroft come to mind--whereas Democrats tend to appoint people who take that whole "uniquely independent cabinet appointee" thing seriously. (Smetimes even to infuriating degrees, e.g. Griffin Bell and Janet Reno.) But it's also true that the obsequious toadies' toadying regularly gets the president mired in scandals that result in their replacement by some more independent figure.

Decision-making authority regarding whether to invoke an evidentiary privilege has been removed from the trial attorneys and their immediate supervisors and has been kicked all the way to the top. And that decision is now constrained by explicit criteria rather than just leaving it to the AG's gut or the exigencies of the case. That's a big deal. There is no other evidentiary privilege that gets treated this way. Neither the attorney-client privilege nor the deliberative process privilege, both far more frequently used methods for hiding embarassing or corrupt government conduct from public view--are subjected to this standard.

No, it's not perfect. But it's a sufficiently important improvement to deserve more discussion from an important voice than a tweeted sneer.

Greenwald is an important voice. He's been right about a lot of stuff for a lot of years. In particular, he's been an important voice decrying the increasing irrationality of our public discourse, but he undermines that message by the rapidity with which he can descend into snitty, self-rightous purity-trolling prick mode and twittering is the perfect goad for that tendency.

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When I think of rational discourse, I like to think of sweeping generalizations and fallacious ad hominem attacks like:

"Well, the truth is that it's[the public option] not as important as some of you have made it out to be in your own minds. It's long since turned into just the latest in a never-ending series of tests that self-proclaimed "Progressives" have created that he must pass if he is to show that he really, really loves them. It's like they think his whole purpose for becomeing president was to tend to the bottomless pit of their emotional needs to feel appreciated and validated. "
-Posted by The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

yeah. you're fighting the good fight. Atleast you didn't twitter it, then it'd've really sucked!

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Stung, did it?

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you tell me:

"but he undermines that message by the rapidity with which he can descend into snitty, self-rightous purity-trolling prick mode and twittering is the perfect goad for that tendency."

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You know, if you look at that remark in context, I think you'd at least have to agree that, if it was unnecessarily provocative, it wasn't exactly the only comment on the thread that fit that description. I started that post out with a point about what I thought might be going on, ended it with what I (possibly wrongly) considered to be some extremely mild snark about the imminence of some ranting, and got a lot of rather personal abuse in return.

But the reaction I've gotten to the comment you quoted makes me suspect that I at least got some people asking themselves whether, at some level, there wasn't some germ of truth in what I was saying. If it took a little reductionism and snide language to accomplish that, I can live with the reaction.

If your point is that that's all Greenwald was doing with the twit and that it's thus bogus for me to take him to task for it after having done it myself, I'd have to concede you had a point. It's one I could argue a bit, but to do it I'd have to concede that, at some level, it also contains a germ of truth, so it would end up as a "pot calling kettle blacker kind of discussion, and, honestly, my irony filter wouldn't let me pursue it very far.

Look, we're bordering on thread-jacking here. I probably even crossed that threshhold with this response, So I'd like to suggest we take it elsewhere, to another purpose made-blog, maybe, if you want to keep it going.

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I like what Glenn had to say here:

This "new policy" would plainly allow the continuation of that conduct because the decision-makers now -- the DOJ -- are the same ones who asserted the privilege in the first place. So how, in practice, would this change anything?"


and the aclu:

"On paper, this is a step forward. In court however, the Obama administration continues to defend a broader view of state secrets put forward by the Bush administration and to demand that federal courts throw out lawsuits filed by victims of torture and illegal surveillance..."

and this by the aclu as well:

"Legislative action is crucial to make certain that not only this administration, but future administrations, are bound by the rule of law when invoking state secrets. Bills currently pending in both the House and Senate would mandate court review of state secrets claims, adding a necessary check on executive claims of national security. The state secrets privilege allowed the Bush administration to successfully draw a curtain around many of its nefarious national security policies and up until today the Obama administration has chosen to allow that curtain to remain. Congress must play a role in this reform to ensure an outside check on this broad executive power."

as far as your hypocrisy, I just find it funny.

How you still fail to see how you deride people if they don't agree with you (and your dogma), and then claim they have a purity test (and dogma), that's comedy.

How you generalize people who don't agree with you:

"Progressives" have created that he must pass if he is to show that he really, really loves them. It's like they think his whole purpose for becomeing president was to tend to the bottomless pit of their emotional needs to feel appreciated and validated. "

I was here on TPM during the campaign. I never had illusions that Obama was a liberal or a progressive. FISA let everyone know where he stood. So this purtiy test crap you peddle is silly.

So I guess I'm calling you all around hypocritical and silly.

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Here are your whining Progressives: 65% of the country:

"Would you favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government administered health insurance plan -- something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get -- that would compete with private health insurance plans?"

Favor 65%
Oppose 26%

Interestingly, according to the poll, support for a public option has jumped 5 points since late August and opposition to it has dropped 8 points." Times/CBS Poll from 9/24 as cited by Josh.


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Greenwald, unlike the blindly loyal apologists for all things Obama is not only rational but consistent and correct. I posted this on another thread but it is worth putting here too. It's a short excerpt from Greenwald's blog on this question of the alleged Obama reform of the state secrets privelege:

"This leads to a more general point: when it comes to uprooting ("changing") the Bush/Cheney approach to Terrorism and civil liberties -- the issue which generated as much opposition to the last presidency as anything else -- the Obama administration has proven rather conclusively that tiny and cosmetic adjustments are the most it is willing to do. They love announcing new policies that cast the appearance of change but which have no effect whatsoever on presidential powers. With great fanfare, they announced the closing of CIA black sites -- at a time when none was operating. They trumpeted the President's order that no interrogation tactics outside of the Army Field Manual could be used -- at a time when approval for such tactics had been withdrawn. They repudiated the most extreme elements of the Bush/Addington/Yoo "inherent power" theories -- while maintaining alternative justifications to enable the same exact policies to proceed exactly as is. They flamboyantly touted the closing of Guantanamo -- while aggressively defending the right to abduct people from around the world and then imprison them with no due process at Bagram. Their "changes" exist solely in theory -- which isn't to say that they are all irrelevant, but it is to say that they change nothing in practice: i.e., in reality.

"That's why I called yesterday's announced changes to the state secrets policy a "farce" (here's a Washington Times article today reporting on reactions, including mine). Yes, the changes they announced sound better in theory than what existed previously. It's nice that the DOJ claims it will voluntarily impose a higher burden on itself before asserting the privilege, will require the approval of the Attorney General, will avoid asserting the privilege only to avoid embarrassment over government wrongdoing, etc. But none of that would have altered the Obama administration's controversial, Bush-replicating assertions of the privilege. Not only the Attorney General, but the President himself, explicitly endorsed the specific assertions of the privilege that triggered the controversies in the first place: to block, in advance, lawsuits brought by victims of Bush's torture, rendition and illegal eavesdropping programs. This "new policy" would plainly allow the continuation of that conduct because the decision-makers now -- the DOJ -- are the same ones who asserted the privilege in the first place. So how, in practice, would this change anything?"

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"the Bush/Cheney approach to Terrorism and civil liberties -- the issue which generated as much opposition to the last presidency as anything else"

I'm assuming Glenn has a cite for this other than his own moral certitude. Because I happened to follow the last presidential campaign rather closely, and I don't remember the "Bush/Cheney approach to civil liberties" ever being seriously debated. Both candidates were against torture, and beyond civil liberties were simply not put up for discussion.

Don't get me wrong. The further encroachment of the police state as a result of the War on Terror is abhorrent to any civil libertarian. Unfortunately, there is also no issue which is more vulnerable to effective demagoguery from the right.

However, when Obama has made changes to Bush policy in this area (and admitting that those changes are inadequate to me personally), they are being made in the right direction; e.g., closing Guantanamo, the states secret issue under discussion here.

What I'm assuming is that he is going to wind the worst of these programs down, albeit slowly and quietly so as to not provoke the outrage of the right (seeing as how they still control the political debate in Washington).

What he is too politically cowardly to rectify I hope will be disposed of by the Congress (they are already questioning his request for renewal of the Patriot Act) and the courts.

Glenn's the type of guy who howls in outrage at anything other than 100% adherence to his principles. While his writing is valuable in that regard, Glenn does not have to deal with a reactionary rump party that is still wired into the establishment media, a significant segment of his own party that's not much more progressive than that aleged opposition, and an unsophisticated electorate that, when faced with a choice between their civil liberties and "security," will choose the latter every time.

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vulnerable to effective demagoguery from the right.

Well, boy howdy. (I think that's what the freshwaters say?)

Put differently, if the price of purity visibly displayed is two weeks with Glen Beck's *arm up your ass, might you want to approach your goals circumspectly...(circumspection, of course, drives me and my friends straight NUTS

*attached to a glowstick...

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Glenn Beck could put his forearm anywhere he chose (glowstick optional) if he wasn't rewarded with a Time magazine cover for it.

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In one sense, Greenfield's right about the decision makers being the same but, in a meaningful and practical sense he's also quite wrong.

He's wrong because he's ignoring the difference between being "responsible" for the decisions of your subordinates and being responsible for your own decisions.

In the former case, a good executive is always going to have a tendency to want to support the decisions of the man or woman on the frontlines, even if the decision is not one he would have made himself or that it would have been better not to have made in hindsight.

In such circumstance, the executive will even get some cred from those who should be applying the heat for standing up for subordinates who made a suboptimal choice. This can translate into cover for decisions the executive himself actually supports.

By removing the decision from the hands of people who have a career interest in winning the particular case at hand--the trial attorneys and whoever's supervising their conduct of the case--and moving it so far up the chain, they turn the decision into one of pure policy for which a single person is directly and personally accountable as a decision maker to Congress, the court and the public.

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Truly a lovely precedent for when the Republicans are next in power.

And,yes, Ashcroft is the exception that proves the rule.

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The FEDERAL Rules of Civil Procedure provide a sword for this apparent Gordian Knot:

When a party to litigation refuses to comply with the rules of discovery, his pleadings on the subject are stricken.

Assertion of the state secret doctrine is (per my cursory analysis) always germane to liability not damages.

Fine.

The government is free *to refuse to comply with the discovery demand, cede liability,and move on to damages.

Why does this somehow compromise national security?


*True fact: My father once paid five large in sanctions rather than comply with a Federal Rules deposition demand. "Never let them put you under oath", he used to say... Bill Clinton could have used that advice...

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