« "Progressive Conservative" columnist disappointed with Sotomayor pick | truthseeker77's Blog | Hawaiian officials are partly responsible for the ongoing "Birther" controversy »
I'm not going to defend Gates because it's the "liberal" thing to do
There are conflicting reports as to what occured during the minutes prior to the arrest of professor Henry Louis Gates.
The Police officer says Gates provided Harvard identification only (which has no address to confirm residence) whereas Gates claims to have shown both a Harvard I.D. and a drivers' license, which does have an address.
Gates says officer Crowley ignored the former's request to state his name and badge number, whereas Crowley claims he did so twice, and refused to do it a third time due to Gates' noise and unnecessary insistence.
Who is telling the truth? I don't know, and you don't know either. There is no video, no audio, or media report of what the witnesses gathered around the site had to say.
It would be ok to take a wild guess and side with one of these two individuals, if their past history revealed patterns of racism (in the case of the cop) or disorderly behavior (in the case of Gates). But no such clues exist. Both individuals seem to have impeccable records.
Unfortunately, the kneejerk reaction by some in the Left is to defend the obvious "liberal" position: the black victim is right, and the white male cop is wrong and racist. The right-most elements of the Right do the same: The white guy is right and the black guy is wrong.
Sometimes it's ok to say "I just don't know." Try it.
The Police officer says Gates provided Harvard identification only (which has no address to confirm residence) whereas Gates claims to have shown both a Harvard I.D. and a drivers' license, which does have an address.
Gates says officer Crowley ignored the former's request to state his name and badge number, whereas Crowley claims he did so twice, and refused to do it a third time due to Gates' noise and unnecessary insistence.
Who is telling the truth? I don't know, and you don't know either. There is no video, no audio, or media report of what the witnesses gathered around the site had to say.
It would be ok to take a wild guess and side with one of these two individuals, if their past history revealed patterns of racism (in the case of the cop) or disorderly behavior (in the case of Gates). But no such clues exist. Both individuals seem to have impeccable records.
Unfortunately, the kneejerk reaction by some in the Left is to defend the obvious "liberal" position: the black victim is right, and the white male cop is wrong and racist. The right-most elements of the Right do the same: The white guy is right and the black guy is wrong.
Sometimes it's ok to say "I just don't know." Try it.
Advertisement
















Police have in car computers with access to DMV records. I would think a patrol car going to a residence would know the name (and have a photo) of the resident before they arrived. Unless of course the officers were stupid. Where did I hear that word lately?
July 24, 2009 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
How do you know what was in the police car in question? How do you that Professor Gates has a driver's license?
Life must be easy for those who know everything.
July 24, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
What does the Massachusetts law say?
And then I have another question.
July 24, 2009 6:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
While the initial knee-jerk liberal reaction may be to see this as white black, police harassment etc. The more logical (and "conservative") view is to see this as private citizen vs. state. Professor Gates was on his own property, a fact easily verifiable by the local constabulary yet was ultimately arrested for disorderly conduct, in his own home. If the right-wingers were true to their standard BS about individual rights above all else; THEY should be screaming about the violation of Gate's rights as a private citizen by the State. Aren't they the ones that defend the Second Amendment as our last defense against the tyranny of the government?
July 24, 2009 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is the argument liberals should use when discussing this issue with conservatives.
As far as I can tell, everything else is hearsay and irrelevant to the larger issue of a defacto police state in this country, something that should be anathema to any true conservative. Time to remind republicans of their real heritage, one that began long before Saint Ronnie entered the scene and was born with much more progressive values than the modern GOP has ever seen fit to emulate.
I wonder when both parties will start practicing their "better histories" rather than this constant race to mediocrity and partisanship.
July 24, 2009 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's hwo I saw it.
Regardless of race, once the cop discovered it was in fact the man's home, the ONLY thing he needs to do is leave.
I don't care if the home owner is irate or rude or even disorderly, it is his goddamn house and the cops have no right being there.
Bottomline: It's his goddamn house. There was no crime. Once they knew that, they MUST LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.
These cops were obviously on a power trip and have a sense of impugnity. What's next? While they are there, have a look around in his closets and drawers?
I have tremendous respect for police who do their duty and serve the public. But they do serve the public, not the other way around.
July 24, 2009 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bravo!
July 24, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
And co-sign this whole damn thread, up to and including "bravo."
July 24, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The right-wing Second Amendment lie aside, Crowley publicly admits -- however inadvertently -- that he handcuffed and arrested Gates because of things Gates allegedly SAID. Unfortunately for Crowley, whatever Gates SAID is PROTECTED speech. So Crowley has admitted that he violated Gates' civil rights, and that, based upon that violation, subjected Gates to false arrest.
July 24, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not sure that 'right' and 'wrong' enter into this tempest in a teacup. Legal and illegal do apply, however. But what does it boil down to? A cop is dispatched to investigate a report of a break in. The resident, just returned from traveling halfway around the world, is stressed and tired. He hears 'something' in the tone or manner of the officer to cause him to feel he is begin harrassed in his own home. He expresses this, along with the concern that he is being hassled in his own home because of his racial identity. He asks for the officers badge number.
That is pretty much it. Whether Gates elevated the volume of his voice, whether he waved his hands in the air, whether he asked the same question in rapid succession--they are stylistic details.
Police officers are agents we depend on to assure the public safety. What public's safety was in jeopardy here? What did Gates do or say that was illegal? Was this a legitimate arrest? Many people say Gates acted improperly. Some say the officer did. I know that I would have acted differently, if I were either Gates, or the Cop, but I believe there is a time and a place to fight for your rights, and this was probably not it. However, what did Gates do that was so wrong? And why did the officer REALLY arrest Gates? If it was a legitimate arrest, why drop the charges? Either they could make the case or they couldn't. I have never heard of a case being dropped that the District Attorney belived they could make in court. Doesn't that say something about the case? Either way, the whole incident is something of a Rorschach test.
July 24, 2009 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"why did the officer REALLY arrest Gates?"
According to Crowley, in public interview, and however inadvertently, he unambiguously said he arrested Gates for things Gates allegedly SAID.
Unfortunately for Crowley, that means he falsely arrested Gates for uttering PROTECTED speech, in violation of Gates' first amendment rights.
And it doesn't matter how many cops he can rally to back him up (the Cambridge press conference by the "Fraternal Order of Police," or whatever they call themselves, was interesting: all white faces, except for a single Asian in the back): Gates has a legitimate legal action against Crowley, and the Cambridge PD.
And according to the public statement by the Cambridge PD chief, there was "a crime in progress" -- though in fact there was not.
July 24, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but don't call an illegal arrest a stupid act, or else the entire fraternal order of police will collectively weep at the terrible injustice of the remark. I never knew the police union was possessed of such delicate sensibilities.
July 24, 2009 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
President Obama, realizing that the Gates controversy was distracting the public from his effort to promote healthcare reform, has moved promptly to restore the public's focus on that higher priority issue. He has backed away from his original use of the word "stupidly", and praised Officer Crowley for him fine record of performance as a police officer. At this point, the Senate Finance Committee is deliberating the reform package, and there is some danger that they will dilute or event eliminate the public insurance option, which is a critical feature of healthcare reform. This probably deserves more media attention and debate than it is receiving, and thd Gates controversy is being perpetuated by healthcare reform opponents to perpetuate the distraction.
July 24, 2009 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's my take for what it's worth. Gate's crime - pissing off a cop.
The Cambridge Police officer's mistake allowing a cranky old man to get under his skin.
As to what he was charged with, Disorderly Conduct. No way this could have held up. In order for this to have stuck in MA Gate's would have had to been in a public place affecting the general public. Not in his own home and yes the front porch does constitute part of his domicile. Being rude to a police office is not a crime.
July 24, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both men were wrong (from all accounts).
However, CIVILIANS ARE ALLOWED TO BE WRONG INSIDE THEIR OWN HOUSES.
Perhaps the police academy in Massachusetts has not gotten that legal point across to its graduates.
the INSTANT Gates' identity was confirmed, the officer should have excused himself and left the home. Preferably after apologizing for the inconvenience caused by the report of a 'break-in".
Both men should probably apologize to each other and end this inane and childish nonsense.
July 24, 2009 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
you seem to be singing a different tune today.
"Cupcake - if a police officer catches you breaking into a home - even YOUR OWN - you MUST comply if he asks you to step outside and verify your identity.
And if you fail to do so, they have the right to forcibly detain you.
Please don;t comment on subjects about which you know little or nothing."
July 24, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have the order of facts wrong -- and I'm basing this on Crowley's police report:
It was AFTER Gates proved his identity, AND that he belonged there, AND that Crowley determined that there was NO crime in progress, and NO laws being violated, that Crowley handcuffed and arrested Gates.
And according to Crowley's own public statement -- however inadvertent -- he arrested Gates for "disorderly conduct" because of things Gates allegedly SAID.
Gates' speech is PROTECTED speech: there was no ground for the arrest.
July 24, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
i agree entirely. the quotation is from a post by gayithacan.
July 24, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
What? If Gate's ID was inside his home how can he come out and show his ID? Both Gates and Crowley ( according police report) went back into Gate's kitchen where he offered up his ID. Crowley then verified ID. At this point Crowley should have left, period. However, because Prof Gates got up into his face Crowley got pissed and this is what he was arrested for . . . pissing off a cop. Sorry, but this is not a crime, rude maybe, stupid maybe, but not a arrest-able offense.
July 24, 2009 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
i agree entirely. the quotation is from a previous post by gayithacan.
July 24, 2009 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why would a police officer refuse to give out his name and badge number? Aren't they required to do so when asked?
Again, without knowing all the facts, the officer apparently could not arrest anyone in their own home, so he had to WAIT until the homeowner left his home and walked outside.
Did the officer do just that? If so, then what he did was wrong.
In TX, we have a lot of stupid laws and the way that officers make these types of "stupid" arrests is to get an individual to go outside of the location where the investigation is occurring.
I don't know is this is what happened, but given that the police are not releasing information, I will assume that is what happened and the police officer didn't know who the citizen was...or it never would have happened.
Just 2 more questions. Do police in Boston all travel alone and call for back-up only when they think it is needed? If this was a home invasion report, then how does one officer think he can catch anyone, as most homes have a front and back door.
July 24, 2009 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the problem: The police officer said that when he did state his name several times, and at one point when he began to state his name Gates yelled so loud that it interrupted the police officer.
After a third attempt to answer Gates' question then the police officer, he says, refused to keep trying.
July 24, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your SCAM is to rely on a part of the he said-he said you like.
The he said-he said can be wholly ignored: Crowley admits that he arrested Gates for things Gates allegedly SAID. Problem for Crowley: Whatever Gates said was PROTECTED speech.
There was no ground for a FALSE arrest which violated Gates first amendment rights.
July 24, 2009 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
From photograph of the scene:
Four cops with guns.
Gates and his driver.
July 24, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your title doesn't really cut to the meat of this issue. Gates doesn't need to be defended.
The bottom line - and the reason why Crowley will continue to take the lion's share of the heat - is that Gates was in his own home at the time of the encounter, and produced proof of his identity and place of residence prior to being arrested.
Unless Crowley had some reason to suspect that Gates was engaging in some other criminal behavior, the moment he reviewed the Harvard and Massachusetts ID cards, his job was done. Since neither Crowley nor the CPD has asserted anything other than Gates disturbing the peace (on his own property, of course), it is safe to assume that no such reason exists. Ergo, Crowley went way over the line.
Notice that, in all the CPD's public talk since this happened, they have yet to offer a defense for arresting Gates at his home. There's a good reason for that: it's indefensible to anyone with more than two functioning synapses.
As for believing Crowley's report...well, I really don't give it much credence. (I don't give a lot of the Gates recounting much credence either, but it seems to be agreed that Gates produced ID before being arrested.)
July 24, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I accept as valid the parts of Crowley's report which indict Crowley. And, of course, his PR campaign in which he publicly states that he arrested Gates for things Gates allegedly SAID. And says what those things were.
Problem for Crowley -- and the CPD: All of what Gates allegedly said is PROTECTED speech. There was no ground for what was a false -- vindictive -- arrest.
July 24, 2009 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody is disputing whether he showed ID or not. It's the kind of ID that's at issue. Harvard ID alone? Or drivers' license as well?
July 24, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently it was the kind of ID the police accepted as proof. His charge--the one and only one that led him away in handcuffs--was "disorderly conduct".
July 24, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The police officer's accoiunt is that he did not accept it as proof until he called Harvard Police, which came over to the house and confirmed to the officer that he was the owner.
If Gates' account is correct (that he also showed a drivers' license originally), then Crowley called Harvard Police for no reason.
Again, some of you might choose to believe one over the other. I won't.
July 24, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of bias: Why are you believing everything Crowley says, but nothing Gates says?
Especially when the facts as reported by Crowley, both in his report, and public interview, are that Gates was handcuffed and arrested AFTER Crowley ACCEPTED Gates' proof of Gates' identity, and that Gates belonged there?
And -- CROWLEY admits -- that Gates was arrested for "disorderly conduct" -- it's illegal to be "disorderly" in one's own home (unless one is WHITE, "truthseeker")? The nature of the "disorderly conduct" according to Crowley: things which Gates allegedly said, which Crowley repeats, and which are PROTECTED speech.
July 24, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong. I was responding to a member who did exactly what you condemn: Take as fact what one of the parties said. The member said: "Why would a police officer refuse to give out his name and badge number?" as if it has been established as true that Crowley refused to give his name. There are conflicting accounts of what happened, and you are pretending that I am believing what Crowley said. I am simply giving readers the opportunity of hearing the other side. In one-sided websites such as TPM, you will not rarely if ever hear the other side.
Why didn't you criticize member afisher for not being skeptical? I have no idea (like I said in the original entry) who is telling the true. You know that I said that nobody knows who's telling the truth. But you, JNagara, are taking the obvious "liberal" position: defend the black victim over the white cop, because white cops are bad liars and black people can't lie.
Now condemn afisher and get back to me.
July 24, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once it's been ascertained that no burglary was taking place and the suspect was indeed the homeowner it's the officer's duty to get out of his house, leave the man alone and go back to his other duties. Anything else is just asking for trouble.
July 24, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm very very white, and I've had my share of police encounters like this one, so I'm perfectly open to the possibility that Gates was too quick to assume that Crowley was racially profiling. It's also entirely possible that Gates was jet-lagged, cranky, argumentative, even abusive. So what!? Remind me, which of those things is against the law? Crowley's own account makes it clear that he is one more arrogant, power-hungry cop, convinced he deserves respect because of his fucking badge, not because of the strength of his character. I hope the press never gets off his lawn. I hope his lawn is ruined. I hope his life is ruined.
July 24, 2009 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
President Obama disagrees with you. He thinks Crowley is a good man and "outstanding officer".
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/mostpopular/20168882/detail.html
July 24, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you truthseeker. The discrepancies are many, and we don't know what happened for certain.
And the notion suggested here that officers should not arrest people 'in their own home" is somewhat misguided, because many people are arrested in their own home or on their own property.
If an officer comes on someone's property (and this house did not belong to Gates, but to someone else -- Gates was a renter) in the line of duty, investigating a potential break in or even a domestic violence call, you can bet that officer has the right to arrest someone who is behaving in a manner that is deemed "disorderly"or "disturbing the peace" by the officers present. And as I understand it, the officers along with Crowley are backing him up.
There is no case for Gates here. It would be best for all parties if they just got together and shook hands.
And then, the landlord ought to bill Gates for breaking the door.
July 24, 2009 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink