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If Neda were ugly, she wouldn't be all over the news


Much like the way all kidnap victims on CNN.com seem to be cute and sexy.

Are you going to tell me that ugly men have not been killed in the recent Iran protests? Or ugly women? Isn't the death count around 20? Why Neda?

She is a martyr, but so are the others.


62 Comments

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Please tell me you are kidding.

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Agree with jsfox.

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Part of it is probably due to the fact that her actual killing was captured on tape (I don't know how many of the other 20 were, but I'm guessing not many). Part of it is probably due to her being a woman, and the image of women being beaten or killed by men is more likely to cause a more emotional reaction. And yes, being an attractive woman will get her more media attention.

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She also came to the forefront due to blogging. Her brother wrote a blog the day before she died outlining his planned activities. At one point, he acknowledged that he might be killed. The next day, he wrote a heart-wrenching blog entry announcing the death of his sister. "Today was a big day—Today I was killed," was his first line. I was immediately moved, and I didn't even know what his sister looked like. Nor did I care.

I also frankly don't think the fact that she was attractive mattered that much. What shocked everybody were the photos of her dead body, and I contend that no violently killed person looks good, no matter what they were like in life.

Besides, what if Neda had been a frail, elderly woman? Or what if she had been a little boy? Is it conceivable that such a person whose death had been captured on video might also have made an impact on the world's imagination and conscience? I personally think so.

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The death of a child or a woman is going to get a more emotional response and more attention than a man. If it were an old, frail woman it would still be compelling. Joan of Arc was more notable than John of Arc would have been because wars were fought by men. The attractiveness factor is more a comment on the superficialness of the media.

That said, I should also note that I am exceptionally cautious about the accuracy of things coming from Iran that are unfiltered and have not been verified yet, like this video, twittering and the blogs. The government crackdown on international journalists is largely responsible for people having to rely on the information of those who report to be ont he ground, but there are so many ways that can be misused or manipulated.

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The handsome Pat Tillman's death wasn't captured on tape, and we were led to believe he was a hero, and the media hyped his death up until the truth came out.

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..and that relates to this...how?

There are plenty of friendly fire deaths. I don't think it was just that Tillman was handsome; he was a celebrity. Yes, when Jack Benny died it made headlines but Jack Smith, who died the same day was just in the local obits.

If you think it was just his good looks, I don't think you've made a case.

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It was also because he walked away voluntarily from a lucrative football career to fight. People who sacrifice money for they believe in gets attention, if at the very least from those who can't believe someone would give up tons of dough for anything.

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Yeah, and this may offend people, but it's also and (*more* IMHO) because the U.S. is so filled up with football freaks. And the fact that his death was infamous does not in any way reduce the point that this poor woman is being celebrated in part, yes, because she was attractive.

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Regardless of her physical appearance - she's just as dead. Even if your point is true, is it necessary?

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Yeah, but it's all in that protection of free speech: it can order conduct which results in killing, but it's still free specech, regardless how "noxious".

It's always easy to defend the harm when it only happens to someone else.

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Why ineed? Isn't THAT the eternal question, posed 19 more times as well...and counting.

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Considering all of the incredibly significant things happening in Iran right now...

this seems to me to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to make a sort of twisted point.

Facts matter. And considering the media challenges maybe so far this is just the most clear media story available, with family available and able to relate the storyline.

If you check out the open thread on Huffpost you can view the CNN piece on 'you cannot beat our grandmothers' and the text of her fiance's statement to understand why the story is compelling. Shot 'through the heart' on a side street.. her not being a Mousavi or Achmeblahblahblah(disdain intended) supporter...

If you want to write a blog about 'beauty' and the media relative to being shallow and the value of all persons, great... but something about your trying to use this to go there just feels really creepy.

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Recommended for the comments.

Why Neda? Why, Indeed.

Has there ever been anything so poignant as that short clip of a woman's last moments? One might think it was staged, it's framing so perfect. Will Neda's death be the ikon of the Resistance?

Maybe the Iranians do not need the US to support their fight. I find it incredibly arrogant that they would feel more strongly and be more determined if the US advocated their cause. It exists separate from the US. We should get a grip on that fact. The world does NOT wait for what the US to validate their voice. That is just our ego-centrical imagination catering to the blind nationalism of false patriots and the like. I wish the Resistance fidn success and democracy thrive in Iran, but democracy begins at home.

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You know what. Fuck You.

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I hate to say it, but that was pretty much the sum of my first crack at this blog too...

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Fuck you too, guys.

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No, I'm with Saladin and Dorn. I don't know what kind of empty shell you have for a soul, "truthseeker", but you see a person die and all you can point out that this somehow wouldn't be tragic if she weren't attractive?

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I didn't say it wouldn't be tragic. I said the media wouldn't have made it a big deal. Please think better, and read better.

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I am thinking, and reading.

A woman was murdered, making a stand for democracy.

She took a bullet to the heart. She died on a street, surrounded by strangers who were trying to help her. Scared, probably knowing that she was dying. Someone took a video.

And your response is that she's being made a martyr because she's pretty.

Very, very cold.

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How many of the murders are on tape?

You could have a point (though I'm not sure why the heck you would make it) if there were other videos of "ugly" people being murdered floating around....

Who cares if she's beautiful. She's dead now. What is your point?

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Again, the death of the handsome Pat Tillman wasn't on tape; and the death of that Aruba chick that was killed wasn't captuerd on tape either. Yet they became media sensations, in the case of Tillman at least until it was found out that he had been killed by friendly fire. You guys are trying to justify this media behavior with the "it was on tape" excuse. It's not flying.

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Didn't you just say that a second ago?

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Yes, but TS thought it so brilliant, it should be repeated. Not the responses to the original statement, however.

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Yeah, I did, but I repeated it to another member who needed to know it.

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But she wasn't ugly.

So what now?

Either it's all about "the news" per your inane post and your lame attempt at twisting a meta critique from a single televised tragedy, or it's about the reality that a government that can't keep its own women and children safe deserves to fall.

My own children happen to be quite beautiful. Should I teach them to avoid the fray on the off chance that some sick observer like you might draw the wrong lesson from their commitment?

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Don't forget that I said Neda should be a martyr.

By the way, the beauty of your children may be objective. Another observer might consider them to be ugly as hell.

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May be subjective, I meant. Not objective. Correction.

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Judge for yourself, asshole.

http://pantaohui.blogspot.com/

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Put me down for a 'beautiful/cute' vote, chino. ;)

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Their beauty radiates from the inside, Chino.

=)

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miguelitoh2o & Bwakfat: that was probably a dopey move on my part, but since we just had Father's Day, what the hay, I'll be a dork if I wanna and thank you both for your kind words!

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I seldom comment on this type of post - which (in my opinion) both the title and context were utilized only for sensationalism and sad personal agenda.

I find it to be demeaning and disrspectful of this young woman. There was no need to use her as the context for your assertions. If indeed, your goal was to discuss your theory that the possession of or lack of perceived physical beauty plays a role in media coverage - anyone that doesn't get that already most likely wouldn't have the mindset to post on this site.

No matter your goal for using this title and post it speaks more to the extent of your flaws than any others ............

Shame on you.

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I agree. This post exploited the death of this young woman to make a larger point that could have been made without reference to the victim.

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Second'd

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She wasn't protesting. She and her father were watching the protestors when she was fatally shot. That is what makes it even more tragic. It goes to show that their clerics do not try to distingish between the protestors and passer bys.

Course, some would say had she not been there, she would not have been shot.

Perhaps, but I say, had the protestors been allowed to protest peacefully, and the theocrats were not so hell bent on being a totaltarism society, this would not have happened.

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It occurs to me, turning Truth'k'r's bloody-minded approach on its poor head, that some Basiji POS may have shot her (the shot came from across the street on a rooftop) because she was good looking.

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This is sort of like wondering if Victor Hugo would have abandoned the Quasimodo character if he had been good looking. Personally, I feel certain that Neda would be an icon of the uprising regardless of her looks. So I don't buy your thesis, truthseeker. Kind of silly to argue about it though - how would one prove it either way.

Roland Barthes wrote in his introduction to "Empire of Signs:" "This is a book about Japan. Not the real Japan, but the Japan that exists inside the French imagination." I think we owe Neda the person our respect and sympathy. Neda the Icon, however, has no history, never breathed, and forever dies each time the video is viewed.

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truthseeker can phrase things like a shit a lot of the time, but his point here isn't to take away from Neda, it's to remind everyone that there are millions of Nedas.

How many Nedas don't we see from Iraq, Gaza, Pakistan, the Sudan, and yes, even Tehran? It's wonderful if her sacrifice has helped people see the protests as being about more than just the election, and it's good that people apparently care. I just wonder if seeing a young girl's snuff video is really what it takes for people to get it.

She wasn't the first person in the protests to be killed, her death wasn't the first to be caught on tape, and she wasn't the last. Hopefully people don't stop paying attention after Neda's story has been relegated to the CNN archives.

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My thoughts exactly Demo.

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Go ahead guys, tell me how many missing black girls have been shown in the front page of CNN.com.

Just a quick guess: zero.

Because the media views white girls as more attractive and by extension best selling than black ones, unfortunately.

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Go ahead, truthseeker, and tell me how many snapping turtles get ruthlessly run over simply because they are ugly and happen to be crossing the road at an inopportune time. I feel the same for Possums, which many people find ugly, but they are our only marsupial and are wonderful animals that get rid of all kinds of pests for us.

If it just weren't for those pesky PEOPLE in this world who so desperately need to be educated...

BTW -- I am an advocate for both snapping turtles and possums, but I don't think they are the victim of a conspiracy -- just ignorance.

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I stopped for a snapper crossing the road about a week ago, and to my surprise, so did the car behind me, it was a dad and his young son. He insisted on moving it, and because of the kid, I said OK, but Oy! The guy didn't do it very nicely. and not even in the right direction. (always put turtles on the side of the road they're aiming for, or they'll just turn around and try again.)

(sigh)

They are dangerous, but really.

Still, lots of folks around these parts do stop for turtles and other assorted creatures.

It helps to remind me that most everyone is not a creep. The creeps tend to be a minority, thank goodness.

Thanks for the reminder, however inadvertent that was, C'Ville.

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That might be the most offensively off-point comment I've ever read. Biking without a helmet? Construction site accident? Republican parents? Don't wade into matters over your head--stick to the sports pages.

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quinn,

I'm still laughing - geez, I only wish you had posted this as a stand alone blog! This is, as they exlaim, PRICELESS!

(And ever so perfect.)

Thanks so much. (Geez, if dd sees this he'll most likely have to change his jammies!)

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It's a good thing that guy standing in front of the tank in Tiannamen Square was a looker.

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Win.

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Didn't he get a gig with The Gap afterwards?

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Is it Truthseeker's point to once again browbeat the world for confessing its stereotypical view of women by favoring female beauty over female brains?

Or is Truthseeker a misogynist, angry that this woman gets all the love?

Should we care?

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Hm. Rachel Corrie was relatively homely, but it did not stop rabid Israel haters from using their image.

But who knows, perhaps the impact of her tragedy would be much bigger if she looked like Neda Derakhshan.

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Recommended for the comments. I must say that had someone else died on camera who were not as attractive, the opposition would have probably tried to use the video just as actively. Would it have been as popular to the US media and internet viewers? It's hard to say.

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I remember years ago an essay that someone read on NPR. It was at least 30 years ago, and I still remember the essence of it, so it must have made an impression. It was about how people can get all wrapped up in a story about a kitten or a puppy that is in danger, while glossing over headlines about people getting blown away. I think it was in reference to stuff that was happening in Vietnam, where we actually saw footage of suffering and death.

Back then we saw what was REALLY ugly: the GI's in the trenches, (we actually feared we might see our very brothers (except the Bush's and Cheney's} who were exempt.

The NPR segment was questioning why we can hear an animal story and rise to the occasion, but steele ourselves against the latest bad news about our human citizens.

The answer that was offered was this: If we see an animal in a shelter we can take it; we can make a difference. I felt good about this 20 years ago. For some reason it falls flat on my deaf ears now.

If we, as citizens can't make a difference to our best and brightest, we are lost.

If MCB is reading this, I want you to know this is also how I feel. If you want to ridicule me for it, it says more about you than it does about me.

This matters.

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The clip went viral on youtube. As far as I know, its import/popularity wasn't a product of hype on CNN or some other MSM slavishness to beauty. [In fact, Rachel just covered it with class (predictably).]

Which is worse? Youtube showing the clip, or using her to enflame TPMCafe with a minor sociological observation?

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The point is, why did Neda's video go viral while the 50 others like this didn't?

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It is an interesting point, but it took clever folks like you to make it.

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demosaur: Couldn't see the video (it was blocked).

All I know is, this felt like a flame post that set TPMers attacking each other for no good reason.

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I think other people have noticed as well why her death has special resonance.

For many Iranians, though, the death of a young woman has special meaning.

“We know a lot of people have died, but it is so hard to see a woman, so young and innocent, die like this,” a 41-year-old who gave his name as Alireza said Monday.

Women were particular targets after President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad began to strictly enforce previously loosened restrictions. Thousands of women were arrested or intimidated because they did not adhere precisely to Islamic dress code on the streets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/world/middleeast/23neda.html?_r=1

That's not to take anything away from Neda, but to note that there are many Nedas which I'll grant the original poster put quite harshly.

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Could you please provide the link to a video of the moment of death occurring while in the arms of their wailing father for any of the other "many Nedas"? If you can, than the original poster *might* have a point. If not, there is no way to say her death is being "elevated" because of anything other than it's floor-your-ass-holy-shit-did-I-really-just-see-that documentation. It was like watching the unedited replay immediately after the towers fell on 9/11 and realizing all those little things that looked like bodies mixed in the rubble were humans.

Is it not possible for someone to be beautiful, young, innocent *and* worthy of being a symbol for an amazing tragedy? This isn't a fucking competition for homecoming queen! It's not something you win. If Neda becomes a symbol, an archtype, her tragedy becomes a metaphor for all the other many Nedas. Innocent blood flowing in the street while a parent helplessly watches is a very compelling - and worthy - symbol.

You are being far too generous to this post - this thing is a stinker. The original poster isn't noting there were many Nedas, they are asserting the only reason people have focused on Neda is because she's pretty. This is not written to elevate the other martyrs - this is to tear one down; a catty, "don't get me wrong she's still a martyr" tossed in doesn't change that. IMO, this is a narcissistic and petty attempt to cram a square peg into a round hole - for what ever reason the poster believes it's appropriate to exploit this situation.

Don't get me wrong, we all know exactly what TS is talking about - but the existence of the general phenomena doesn't mean every situation is applicable. This is just totally off base.

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Innocent blood flowing in the street while a parent helplessly watches is a very compelling - and worthy - symbol.
Except that the elderly gentleman accompanying her was her professor.
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If you weren't so ignorant would you have written your post?

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That's a loaded question, since I'm 'not ignorant.
You posted that comment because you thought it would make you seem cool and witty.

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