Moussavi ain't no saint. He's got blood on his hands, probably more than Prez MockMe I'mAhDinnerJacket

Its true that none of the candidates preselected to run for president is anything we would consider a progressive. Probably anyone in a leadership position has blood on their hands in Iran. But the demonstrations are not run or organized top down. Its a grass roots movement and people are dieing for some movement towards freedom, some change to as much as a degree as is possible withing that system. Moussavi is being pulled along not directing it.

Were the most "left" outcome possible in Iran to come about it would likely still not be any system we would want to live under, but it would be a vast improvement for the people of Iran. I support that striving for freedom by the people even though they aren't striving for the degree of freedom I would desire and even though none of the politicians are very attractive to me.

If we were to look at the American Revolution from the outside and from the vantage point of our time it wouldn't look so pretty. In some ways less pretty that Iran. Slave owners and soldiers engaged in the genocide of the indigenous peoples of this land. The revolution didn't change any of that. It took us more than 200 years to get where we are today. And we still have a ways to go. Its an on going journey for us and so it will be for them too.

The question that is important to me is not how close Iran comes to achieving the freedoms America and other modern nations enjoy but how far they can move from the repressive system they have. I support them in that endeavour in spite of the nature of the leadership thrust upon them.

And Ahmajinidad was (is?) supplying Iraqi insurgents training and materials to create IEDs able to penetrate our armored vehicles - leading to the death and permanent disability of thousands of American soldiers over the last 6 years.

Do you have a point? If so, it's pretty hard to discern. Obama already pointed out there isn't HUGE difference between the candidates - maybe you should pay more attention to the Prez :-)

Looking at the tragedy of Neda's death - I would draw the lesson that we need to account for the atrocities of our own tainted regime ... interesting reaction you are having.

The TPM Cult is not made up of bad people. They are simply people in need of a leader to follow. Now that it's not so cool to worship Obama, because Helen thomas, Bob Herbert, Greenwald, Hamsher and so many other progressive bloggers seem disappointed) the cult members need a leader; a them to coalesce around. And right now, that theme is "Mousavi is God and we should root for a suspected murder." They don't want to hear that Mousavi might have killed a woman. That woman doesn't exist for them.

But the love will die. It might take a few months, but it will die. Obama is still somewhat seen as a God, but progress has been made. I will help you guys come around, but telling you truth you don't want to hear. Truths about your Gods and about your cute little stories.

Other than this way to the right leaning Retired Admiral saying Mussavi was involved is there any other evidence. Not saying it's not so, but some backup might help.

As to the post in general the first thing that struck me - Truth once again prefers to stir the pot than add anything to the sauce.

I know what you're trying to do, truthseeker, but I think you can do it better. Provocation is fine for jolting people awake, but it's even better when it's backed up by strong (if not impeccable) sources. That takes a lot of work, of course, and I think you've picked an impossible topic in Iran. I've not seen anyone on these boards with much of any expertise on Iran (mostly typically myopic American opinion), so you could easily fill the knowledge gap by providing more (a barrage of?) sources that contradict the status quo opinion here (whatever that might be).

Part of what I like about your posts is that they sometimes make me uncomfortable. The most uncomfortable posts start with me feeling unable to agree with you, but the more you add to the comment section, the better I can grasp your intended meaning. I admire that you are willing to stick your neck out and make mistakes: That takes guts. Judging by the commenters, you've got smart people who are reading your posts (including a guy named quinn, although he's currently in an altered state of nicotine deprivation these days, for which he should be congratulated and fed lots of chocolate or he'll rip your jugular out).

A cult mentality is always worth criticizing, but re the subject of Iran, we're all unfortunately in the same boat: Americans are flat-out too ignorant after being subjected to decades of propaganda by our own government. Challenging our ignorance and assumptions is easy (on the surface), but getting trustworthy sources to uncover the truth in this case is hard. I myself am reluctant to take anything, pro or con, at face value at this point.