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Shut the Hell up, Jimmy Carter


His op-ed piece today in the Washington Post speaking his mind about the Gaza conflict is a violation of the rule that there's only one President at a time. His name is George W. Bush.

Enough mixed signals! I'm with Obama on this one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/07/AR2009010702645.html


65 Comments

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I hate to state the obvious, but Obama meant between W and himself. You know, the one who will have the power to do anything in 2 weeks. You can't send mixed signals between the current president and the next.

Jimmy Carter, however, can speak his mind. He can do so as a former president with no repercussions. He is a remarkably under appreciated pol and has an excellent foreign policy mind.

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Mage, I agree with that. JC was and is a good man.
A rare thing in Washington.

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Carter was one of the hardest working, most inappropriately maligned individuals in public life, despite being dealt a nasty hand or two by fate (sand filters on those helicopters in Iran might have spared us Ronald Reagan and everything that hatched out thereafter). Despite W's perseverating idiocy on the subject of how history will reflect favorably upon him (akin to Truman's retrospective reassessment), I do believe that an evolving historical perspective will reflect differently upon Carter's integrity, intelligence, and (where energy policy is concerned) prescience, however much his warnings were ignored (or perhaps because they were). I always enjoyed his press conferences. Since JFK, he's been the only US president besides Clinton fully capable of conceptualizing a paragraph-size concept and articulating it in complete sentences. I always found it gratifying to watch him interact with the press.

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Sorry but you have forgotten LBJ. We haven't seen a political mind like that since in the last century. He was gunning to be the next Lincoln, and if not for Vietnam -- which ironically was something he didn't care about as he wasn't much about foreign policy -- he possibly could have been.

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LBJ was the consummate politician. Jimmy Carter was the consummate gentleman who truly practiced his Christian faith without imposing it on others - the opposite of everything GWB stands for. I would submit that he's done more good works since he left office than any other president, although Bill Clinton is working on it.

I expect to see Dubya in two places in the next 20 years - the golf course and the million dollar speaking circuit. Maybe rehab if the gossip about his drug and alcohol relapse is true.


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Boardrooms. Lots and lots of boardrooms.

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GWB in a boardroom is just scary. I hope they make public every company whose board he is on so we'll know not to invest in them.

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If Dubya's the boardroom it's just a payback, probably related to their war related profits. They will ignore him just like Cheney did.

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You can refer to "W's perseverating idiocy" all you want, but I believe the proper psychological terminology is "fuckin' moron."

;-)

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Right. Got my DSM-IV right here, and it looks like you're right!

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Not to make to fine a point of it. Carter is an ex-President, not a President elect a big difference. To say he cannot write a column on the I/P situation, one he very familiar with, is like saying no one, but the present administration should have an opinion on it. Next, he is not the first ex to weight in on foreign or domestic policy once he is out of office.

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This is a ridiculous post. Carter is a US citizen; he is free to speak out if he chooses. Obama is president-elect, and is following protocol by not speaking before he becomes president.

The big question everyone should be asking is: Why do you Rec you own blog posts? Have you no shame?

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Hey Pseudo, how many times can I get away with that.

: )

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The big question is: Why didn't you ask the author of the top recommended thread as I type this, entitled "Uh Oh" why he recommended his own post? Has he no shame? Why did the author of the third most recommended thread recommend his own post? Has he no shame? Could it be that you are angry that you couldn't explain yesterday why an impostor impersonated Oswald, why two different brains were examinated allegedly being Kennedy's, etc? That is the only explanation I can come up with. Your blood is boiling and that explain the double standard.

I highly recommend my posts.

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Nope, it's equally lame for everyone who rec's their own posts. Your posts are just usually as lame as the self-recs. Hope that helps clear it up!

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Gotta disagree here. It's not lame to vote for yourself. You don't think Obama left his presidential ballot blank, do you? ;-)

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I consider the act of posting to be an endorsement. Self-recs just seem like a way to game the system; either other people like your stuff or they don't. :)

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clearthinker, did you know that demosaur called himself lame because he recommended his own thread in Octobertitled "any of 'em; all of 'em"?

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/demosaur/recommends.php

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An errant click from how many blog posts? :) Keep raging, man, it helps with your incomprehensibility.

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Either people like them or they don't. I know that. And I happen to love my posts.

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Did you post a message calling those other authors lame for recommending their own post?

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There is nothing wrong with Carter's op-ed, in fact, it's quite restrained for him. To wit:

We knew that the 1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza were being starved, as the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food had found that acute malnutrition in Gaza was on the same scale as in the poorest nations in the southern Sahara, with more than half of all Palestinian families eating only one meal a day.

If you don't believe in a free press, government transparency, or the "public square," why do you blog?

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Truthseeker77 you'd do well to take your own advice for President Carter.

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The op-ed piece by Carter was informative, supplying information about the situation between Hamas and the Israeli government that I did not know. Background information on this situation has been difficult to obtain. Critizing this piece, as others have pointed out, is completely uncalled for. Carter's situation in no way resembles Obama's. You are wrong, wrong, wrong in this case.

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President Carter is a wiser, more knowledgeable, and far better human being than you will ever be should your wildest dreams come true. He also has far more understanding of the current situation in both Gaza and the Mideast in general than you will ever achieve, even if you devote the rest of your life to swallowing whole the propaganda you regard as intellectual nourishment.

You are nothing more than a belligerent, blithering idiot - a monkey throwing its own feces seems a semi-accurate, if insulting (to our simian brethren) metaphor.

Take your own advice. And stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

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If he's so smart why did he choose to speak to Hamas earlier this year? Obama criticized him for doing this while speaking to a Jewish group.

Did Carter show good or bad judgment back then?

Should Obama have stuck his advice to Carter where the sun don't shine, too? Let's see you provide analysis instead of attacks that you think make you seem cool.

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If he's so smart why did he choose to speak to Hamas earlier this year? Obama criticized him for doing this while speaking to a Jewish group.

Did Carter show good or bad judgment back then?

Dude - you answered your own question without even realizing it.
Whom was Obama speaking to when he criticized Carter for speaking to Hamas?
Carter is out of politics, he doesn't give a flying fig about appearances, he's focused on substance - not getting elected.

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You should not accuse Obama of pandering to the influential Jewish circle in order to get votes. I take offense. Please respect our leader, as your insinuation might lead some to think that Obama is silent on Gaza because of the same allegiance to the group in question.

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Because, you ignorant clown, progress is made not by talking only to those we agree with, it is made by talking to those we disagree with.

Hamas is not my idea of an ideal negotiating partner, true. Carter, though, realizes very clearly what you deliberately choose to ignore: They are the elected representatives of the Palestinian people. In order to make progress, of any kind, they will have to be moved off the dime, and so will the Israeli right wing government. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be quickly done. It's not going to result in a solution anyone would likely think of today. It does need to happen.

And spare me your whining about how Hamas is rocketing Israel. That may be something on which we agree, yet you will likely never accept that occupied people have the right of resistance. And people who are penned up in what may be most easily described as the Levantine equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto also have the right of resistance. Hamas did not break the cease-fire, by they way - it expired, and they did not renew it after the Israelis would not lift their blockade of such terrible weapons as food and medical supplies.

If you feel so passionately about this, go to Israel and head for the front lines. And be sure to take the point, chickenhawk. Or is it chickenshit?

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Damn fine answer.

Co-sign.

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chickenhawk? That makes no sense, since I'm not pushing for Israel to bomb Gaza. I'm with Obama that only Bush can opine because he's the President. Carter is influential therefore shouldn't send mixed signals. Do you read? And is Obama a chickenhawk?

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Admit it, you're enjoying the hell out of it.

And Carter can do what he wants, and say what he wants, as others have noted, he is doing so for reasons of his own and making no attempt to claim that he is speaking on behalf of the US.

That his words clearly have hit a nerve in you shows the level of credibility he enjoys - something you can only fantasize.

And yes, chickenhawk, chickenshit, feces-throwing monkey, they all ring true. Give it up - you've lost, and more to the point, you are lost - in a maze of your own making.

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Lost? You are the one that can't figure out why you are calling me a chickenhawk. Note that you simply repeated the charge of chickenhawk without answering my question, since a chickenhawk is one who advocates war without participating in it.

Is it that you are trying so hard to find insults that conform to your "grouch" name that you fail to make sense?

Let me try one more time: On what grounds did you call me a "chickenhawk"?

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OK, genius, one last time.

You decry President Carter's speaking up about the murderous intensity of the IDF's bombing, shelling, and invasion of what is the equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto.

I therefore presume you stand in favor of that same sequence of actions.

I know you do not possess the courage (fortitude, testicularity, whatever you choose to call it) to put your own quivering ass on the line for this, you just want an opposing viewpoint silenced.

Therefore, you are a chickenhawk, and a censorious, hypocritical one to boot.

Got it now?

Besides, it's kind of fun provoking you - you're quite thin-skinned and rarely if ever right on anything.

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You are the thin-skinned one, since I got you cursing and dodging questions. You are rattled because you find no way to justify your use of the word chickenhawk. I am calm, on the other hand.

You simply make no sense in seeking to explain the term, because I condemned Carter not for taking a certain side, but for speaking up period.

Didn't I tell you that I agreed with Obama? Did Obama take sides? No, he did not.

Do you think Obama supports the same course of actions taken by Israel?

The more questions you fail to answer, the more your credibility suffers.
You wanted to curse really bad, because you are playing the role of a "grouch" (and because I'm frustrating you), so you thought: "chickenhawk, cool! I wish I could use that word somehow so let me make something up".


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I'm sure it pleases you to believe so.

Asserting things, however, does not make them so.

Look, you've been caught out, not just this time, but often. You're really nothing but a troublemaker. And not a very able one at that. Annoying, yet of no real consequence. Some of us like poking you with sticks. Be glad there are not nails attached.

You like the death and destruction. You think anyone, such as President Carter, who speaks out against it, is somehow a traitor. You relish the very thought of someone far away doing what you dare not, inflicting misery on others. It stimulates you, excites you. I dare say your breathing is getting a little faster and shallower even as you read my condemnation of you, for that very reason.

And you are a coward, as you spent how long refusing to allow comments on your posts? And finally, you were shamed into it, no matter what you say, as people were slagging you all over this forum for your churlish cowardice.

So go ahead, say whatever you will - it is as a mosquito whining in the next room. (No aspersions meant toward the insect kingdom.)

Believe me, I am sparing you much of the contempt for you I feel.

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So you say that assertions don't make things true. Does it mean that the bunch of mind-reading assertions you just made, a la Maureen Dowd, aren't necessarily true either? That's what I thought.

You are rattled; that's why you pretend to know that my breath got faster as I read your last post, in which you once again failed to explain why you weirdly called me chickenhawk.

And go ahead, answer your own questions. How many posts did I write with comments disabled? How many posts did I write with comments enabled before that? Give me a number. Go to the archive. Don't ask questions when you have statistics in front of your nose. How many? What did I and David Seaton cite as the reason why we disabled posts? You conveniently leave that out.

And did I or did I not answer the allegations of those like you who called me (and David Seaton) cowards because we disabled comments for the reason that people like you contributed nothing to threads?

Your face is red as we speak. You are screaming "arrgh!" due to your inability to explain why you called me a chickenhawk. You are shaking, and it makes you miserable that you don't even trust yourself to create entries. Your blog is empty because you settle for replying to comments and putting up an act as a "grouch" who curses.

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And here's one that's going to hurt:

If you claim that I support the attacks on Gaza, why did I recently complain about the fact that the media has been biased towards Israel during this conflict?

And why did I tout a poll showing that most Demcrats oppose the Gaza offensive?

You had time to cherry-pick information from my archive, but conveniently ignored these posts that weaken your claim that I support Israel's offensive. No wonder you don't trust yourself to post entries. Logic is just not your friend. You just were not born to debate.

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Are you are afraid of the developing consensus and Carter's role in setting it out?

Why else would you pretend to be offended when an ex-president doesn't observe your imagined (and v. silly) rules of decorum.

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a majority of israelis are for speaking to hamas. what's your point?

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Truthseeker:

What got your riled up here? The actual opinion?

Carter has been looking at that region for 30 years and was instrumental in the setting up of the first normalized relations between Israel and and Arab country (Egypt). Carter is one of only two US Presidents (Nixon is the other) who has had a significant impact on decreasing tensions in that area.

I would say it's a near certainty that Obama's office saw that piece around the same time as it was delivered to the WaPo. It's quite possible that Obama will use Jimmy Carter as his special envoy to the area. He then pulls in the Clintons afterward before taking the stage himself for a negotiated settlement. In fact, the US has never been so poised as having an impact in the region.

Lastly, let's not forget that in addition to being president of the United States, Carter is a Nobel Laureate.

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And remember also that Carter's partners in the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt were both assassinated not long thereafter by fundamentalist religious extremists of their own religion and nationality.
And there were more than a few Reagan idolators here in the USA who suggested the same should have been done to Carter.

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Menachem Begin (the Israeli Prime Minister) was not assassinated.

In fact, he grew more hardline about settlements.

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Carter is one of only two US Presidents (Nixon is the other) who has had a significant impact on decreasing tensions in that area.

I give up. Other than not being too happy with Israel and its nuclear build-up, where did Nixon have such an impact on Middle-East tensions?

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How frightened these people are who cannot stand to hear the simple truth, simply stated.
We don't all go along with your demands that we accept your way of looking at things--through the lens of your denial.
That must be frustrating -- for the response to be
"shut up". "Don't tell me the truth." "I've got my fingers in my ears." "I can't stand to hear it."

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This post represents the rock bottom level of the "one-president-at-time" authoritarian stupidity that is going around. Now its not just presidents-elect who are supposed to shut up, but other important private citizens as well?

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ya, but readin this putz try to defend his pathetic drivel sure is a hoot

did ya see the part where the old grouch schooled this fool upthread ???

I love it when morans think they got a worthy idea, only to end up defending the indefensible

hey truthseeker, Jimmy Carter earned the right to say what ever the fuck he wants about world affairs

and you should leave censorship advocacy to people who have triple digit IQs, okay ???

it's more fun arguing with intelligent wingnuts

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a few points to peaceniks

A) the UN GAVE Israel to the Jews
B) If hamas stopped rockets ISrael would open borders again and would not have closed them

It was entirely reasonable ot close the borders. It was a reasonable response to rocket attackes that you never heard UN complain or DID ANYTHING about for 3+ years

If palestinians want land - they should All MOVE TO THE SINAI DESERT .

iN 50 years jews made isreal bloom from just a deseert but the arabs / moslems have done NOTHING

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Holy crap! Talk about historically wrong on so many levels where does one begin. Not to mention spelling errors.

Please I beg you go read up on The British Mandate, Balfour Declaration, Sykes Pico Agreement. The National Zionist Movement of the 19th century before you weigh in again on this subject.

To merely state that the UN gave the country to the Jews so misses the larger context and grey areas of I/P conflict.

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Besides, weren't the British more involved in the land splitting thing? And everything else you said, jsfox.

You may be interested to know, j1rose, that all the UN's resolutions have been against Israel, with none against the Palestinians.

This is not because the UN is full of anti-semites and Israel haters. It is because Israel tends to be in the wrong on these matters.

Just trying to point you in the right direction. :-)

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What needed to be said has pretty much already been said here. Carter is a private citizen speaking on behalf of a NGO whose mission is promoting world peace. He has never claimed to be speaking on behalf of the U.S. government or its policies and is not doing so now.

Could be that Carter felt an acute need to speak up because the Bush administration seems to have shut out the lights in the State Department. It appears everyone has broken camp and headed out to join W. on his Turd Blossom Revisionist Reality Tour. Meanwhile, reality rages on.

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Carter does not need to shut up dude. Me thinks it could be you that needs the quiet time. Carter can and should say something and I hope that Obama sends him over there to help.

And Bluemeanie - you got that right, the lights are out over there and have been for the last 6 months. What a lame excuse for president and his administration. Is this going to be one of those things that we look back on and say "My God, how did I put up with that for all those years - he should have been impeached."

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First, it is important to note that what Jimmy Carter says is true. It is also fair to note that not only does Carter talk the talk, he walks the walk. You may remember that, if we don't include Eisenhower ending the Suez adventure, Jimmy Carter is actually the only US president to have ever brought any peace to the Middle East.

I think the chances of Obama sending Carter to the Middle East are those of a snowball in hell. Obama is going to be centered on the economy and he does not want the enmity of the Israel lobby, to whom Carter is poison for the reasons I've noted above... Clear action and clear speech.

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Plus I would imagine that it might serve Obama well to look and say that he is against Carter, to placate the rumbling from the right. It is almost a certified fact that all GOP'ers have an instinctive disdain for the man. Down here you have to verify your conservative credentials by railing agianst Carter and his admin while juxtoposing it with Reagan ascendence to making all that is right about America back. It may be a falacy but this does not change the rather tangeable hate of Carter from those I know.

I have never really understood this because I was very young when he was president. However my father, my uncle and I all got into this over X-Mas this year and my uncle being from Ohio had a very different perspective of Carter than my father. It's ludicrous to not acknowledge that Carter has worked for peace, acknowledged energy issues far earlier than any of the Presidents over the last 30 years and in my mind has been a perfect example of a man of faith and conviction.
Maybe that is why many Southerners have distaste for him, because he actually walks the walk and can talk the talk!

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BINGO!!!

A question I like to ask about people who dislike Carter is, "How many hostages were brought back alive, and how many of those soldiers stranded in the desert were brought back." Then, just cause it usually shuts them up, I follow up with, "So how many soldiers did Reagan bring back from Lebanon?" Oh, guess that did not work out so well, did it?

As for an enduring peace, his recruited nation, Egypt, appears to be admonishing Hamas in the 21st century, 30 years later. Carter not only coaxed Egypt to sit on the sidelines of the Arab/Israeli conflicts, Egypt has actually become an active partner in the peace process. Guess Reagan just couldn't give peace a chance.

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Nixon was president during the Yom Kippur War. As a result of that war, Nixon supported increasing aid to Israel. Aid went from about half a billion dollars a year to over 2 billion. The bulk of that money was used to buy military hardware. Israel's great military strength is a direct result of Yom Kippur War and Nixon's support.

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Well, with all those weapons, who needs to talk about anything?

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Shut the Hell Up, truthseeker77!
I agree with Obama on this one.
There's only one president at a time.
His name is George W Bush.

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If there's only one president then you should shut up too.

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I guess truthseeker is inappropriately named, or perhaps he only seeks 77% of the truth?

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Ok, I have perused the 53 comments to this post and found the following:

28 distinctly disagree with Truthseeker
15 are neutral. They refer mostly to presidents other than Carter.
10 were distinctly favorable, although they were all made by Truthseeker. However, mysteriously, the post did get 10 recomends.

From the above raw data, I conclude the following.
1. Truthseeker has more enemies than friends, although he apparantly has 9 friends who recommend his posts. They are the strong silent type.
2. Truthseeker is very good at getting people a little riled. On purpose, I think.
3. Truthseeker is pretty good at pulling people's legs.
4. Many highly intelligent people don't know when they are getting their legs pulled.
5. Y'all should spend a little time in the South where leg pulling is a favorite sport.

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I believe that some of those 10 were able to figure out that I'm actually in favor of Carter's op-ed and against Obama's excuse that he can't opine about the issue because there's only one President. My previous posts on the issue, such as this one three days ago condemning the media's and Obama's silence, are indicators that I'm pro-Palestine and in favor of everyone speaking out against Israel's atrocities. But they hate me so much that they can't think straight and reach hasty conclusions.

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No, I think we all get your attempted point, we're just letting you know that your comparison is apples and oranges. Obama to Bush does not equal Carter to Obama. Two of these men are, or will be, setting national policy. One is speaking independently and cannot be misconstrued as speaking for the nation. It's been spelled out a few times already for you, but hopefully this breakdown is useful to your reading.

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You can blame the responses on the shortness of your post, the awkwardness of your expression, and your overall obtuseness in replying.

People aren't under any obligation to research your prior posts.

You'll know better when you reach voting age.

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This may be the singularly most vapid post I have ever read at TPM. I am sure at some point the Obama bobbleheads who have nothing more to do than extol Obama at every moment will find a more productive venue for their essential work.

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