My plea to Panetta: Help release EVERYTHING the CIA has on the JFK assassination
Although the Assassinations Records Review Board helped release during the 90's millions of records pertaining to the coup, many more key documents are being blocked by the agency. Indeed, The Huffington Post reported as recently as October, 2007 (via their blogger and ex-Washington Post writer Jefferson Morley) that the CIA was blocking the publication of records related to George Joannides, a top CIA agent whose secret anti-Castro cell had contacts with Oswald. The records remain sealed as I compose this entry:
Morley (October 22, 2007): In a July 2003 FOIA request, I asked for all records on Joannides' contacts with and responsibilities for the DRE in 1962-64, as well as records on his stint as liaison to the congressional investigation in 1978. In the course of the lawsuit, the CIA admitted the existence of 33 still-secret documents in Joannides' administrative file. The CIA refuses to release them in any form, claiming that the release of even a single word would harm national security or violate someone's privacy. Those records have been "denied in full."
The CIA denies any obligation to release JFK-related documents in the Joannides files. "The JFK Assassination Records Act has no applicability" to a FOIA request, according to a brief filed by the agency this summer.
These and other files (If not yet destroyed) which might potentially shed light on the coup should be unearthed. No ifs or buts.





Yeah, and then release everything the CIA has on 9/11 being an inside job.
January 6, 2009 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your disrespect for this reasonable post is uncalled for. Do you really believe that one man killed JFK with one magic bullet? Give me a break.
January 7, 2009 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is the Discovery Channel a dupe or conspirator?
January 7, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yippie, a big channel hired the chief of the Sixth Floor Museum to conclude that Oswald shot Kennedy.
I guess no conspiracy!
January 7, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what about Texas A&M University, speaking of big names, whose researchers concluded that the lone gunman theory was inplausible:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070517142528.htm
January 7, 2009 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sharpshooter in the Discovery channel's show, "JFK: Inside the Target Car", was able to fire off the rounds, on target.
January 7, 2009 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Was the car moving? And how fast?
January 8, 2009 1:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Never mind, this video shows the car in the experiment wasn't even moving. What a hoax by the Sixth Floor Museum Chief and his cronies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULJ1KvmqbF0&eurl=http://blogs.discovery.com/jfk/2008/11/gary-mack-answe.html
January 8, 2009 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
PseudoCyAnts--
I posted this on my blog site shortly after viewing the Discovery Channel program you allude to:
Discovery Channel's Laughable JFK Re-Do.
I just got finished watching Discovery Channel's re-staging of the JFK Assassination, ghoulishly titled "Inside the Death Car," and it's filled with so much illogic, distortion, and one-sidedness that its evidentiary value is minimal. It left me wondering what is the purpose of such a program, who really funds it, and why is it being broadcast? If its purpose is to sway the uninformed and uncritical to the "lone-assassin" side, it may have succeeded, but why is this of value? Whose purpose does this serve? Certainly not history's, because the program left out a ton of known facts and happenstances that, if included, would have contradicted the show's obviously preconstrued premise. In other words, in 2008, who is still so avidly invested in covering up the truth?
I perused the credits for funding information, but found nothing. Apparently, it's a Discovery Channel production all the way. I leave it for others to divine why TDC wants so desperately to finger Oswald as the lone assassin, when 80% of America believes he was not.
Anyway, the funny stuff began right away when somebody who contracts with the Australian (Did TDC have to go all the way to Australia find an idiot who would agree to do this?) defense industry recreated what was claimed to be an exact replica of JFK's neck and head. Just one problem with that--the fake head swivels and bounces like one of those bobbleheads they give away at baseball games. The brain matter? Oh, they injected that right before the test firing. That's right, TDC hired a world-class marksman to shoot at the replica. But get this, they did not do it in Dealey Plaza, though they had Dallas police close down the Plaza for a limousine run-through; they "re-created" the shooting out in the wilderness somewhere, claiming that it was an exact duplicate of Dealey Plaza's dimensions. While the participants admitted it was clear that a shot could have come from behind the picket fence (the most logical locale for the head shot given all the facts) in the Plaza, they had the marksman shoot from what appeared to be a burm in an open field at some undisclosed place. And instead of shooting from the front-right position from which the actual picket fence shooter fired, the marksman shot from a right angle, virtually perpendicular to the JFK dummy. The shot blew a hole through the through the left side of the president's fake head, and the narrator (one Gary Mack, I'll get to him later) gleefully exclaimed, "...this does not correspond to any known wound on the president." Of course it did not, because the marksman shot from the wrong position. Interestingly though, the wound had the exact size and shape as the one Dallas Parkland doctors described the president as having in the back of his head on Nov. 22, 1963! Without realizing it, the TDC bunglers provided substantion for a shot from the front and, thus, a conspiracy.
Other little tidbits that unintentionally prove conspiracy are included. One is the Secret Service agent who wiped off the back seat of the death car at Parkland Hospital. Against all logic, the TDC show tries to convince us that this proves there was only one gunman because the agent wiped away only evidence which would prove that JFK's brain matter flew forward. The agent inexplicably left only the blood, skull and brain matter which indicated a frontal shot. I guess the Secret Service just wanted to make it harder for the Warren Commission to hang it on Oswald? Wow, not even Arlen Specter would lay claim to that one.
To assimilate the 15-20-mile-an-hour winds in Dallas that day, TDC wheeled out a huge fan to blow on the limousine. That one made me howl. An electrical fan duplicating the winds of a city...how scientific!
But the best was Bobby Hargis, the motorcycle cop who was riding to the left rear of the limousine on November 22. Apparently, he is still alive and still breathlessly exclaiming how he was covered in JFK's blood, skull and brains when the fatal shot hit. I guess the producers never considered that this is some of the best evidence of a shot from the front right. The exit wound made by a picket-fence shot would have splattered anyone to the immediate left rear of the death car, right where Hargis was positioned.
Presiding over this whole mess was Gary Mack, curator of the Sixth Floor Museum in the old Book Depository Building. Mack was once sure that he saw a rifleman wearing a badge shoot from the shadows on the grassy knoll. Now he's certain that the kill shot could only have come from behind. I suppose he'll sway with any wind, even one from a giant electrical fan in the middle of nowhere, to drum up ticket sales for his museum.
Tim Fleming
www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.html
http://leftlooking.blogspot.com
January 8, 2009 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, you don't have to be a kook or a conspiracy nut to realize that we have never been told the truth about the murder of our President in 1963. The official story is quite literally unbelievable. Nobody with any sense believes it. Certainly no one who has ever visited Dealy Plaza believes it. None of the people on the scene at the time believed it. We have been lied to for far too long on this matter.
I do not claim to know what the truth is or the exact nature of the conspiracy to kill the President but I (and many other quite sober people) believe there was a conspiracy and that it has yet to be revealed. I can say with great certainty that we know what is not the truth and that is the official government version about a lone gunmen and a magic bullet that takes 90 degree turns and all the rest of that ridiculous lie. The House committee that looked into the matter concluded there was a conspiracy.
The only way to find out what the truth is, is to release all the information that is available and for the government agencies to stop lieing about what they know, what's in their files, and turn over the documents for public examination.
January 8, 2009 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are we to speculate that your lack of evidence for your unsubstantiated conspirabunk proves it true?
Are we to believe that your actually leaving THIS thread open for comment means your aren't yet again acting from less-than-pure America-hating motives?
Why do you hate the gov't, when in reality the gov't is WE THE PEOPLE?
January 7, 2009 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what, pray tell, is the conspirabunk you reference? I don't claim to know the truth of what happened. But if you think the official story is true then I'd say you are beyond gullible.
Conspiracy means a plot involving more than one person and that is all it means. It simply is not believable that one man fired all those shots and one of them was able to defy physics and do all the damage they claim it did. It simply is not true. The House Committee on Assassinations demonstrated clearly that this is not true. They did not come to a conclusion as to who was involved, but they did conclude there was a conspiracy based on solid evidence.
Personally, I would like to know the truth. Wouldn't you? The only way to find it is to look at all the evidence. The ongoing refusal of government agencies to release everything they have only impedes the search for truth.
January 8, 2009 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
What do you know about Mark Lane, the person who started the profitable cottage industry of JFK conspirabunk? Do you even know the original source of your speculations?
Mark Lane, truthfully or not, claimed he was to be Oswald's lawyer. His resonsibility as such was to come with a "thery of the case" which accounted for all the evidence and facts, but lead to a differnt conclusion that that propounded by the prosecution.
Here's the nitty-gritty: his book Rush to Judgment is essentially his defense brief expanded to book length.
Now, what is the content of a brief in an adversarial proceeding? It is ONLY the evidence and "facts" of the DEFENSE side of the case. It is NOT OBJECTIVE.
That is the original source for all the various internally incoherent and inconsistent, and mutually irreconcilable conspirabunkerings about the JFK assassination. 99.99 per cent of which is intellectually dishonest for this basic reason: it BEGINS, EXCLUSIVELY, with the premise that there WAS a conspiracy -- then sets out to fit the evidence and "facts" to the premise. Such tracts, such detritus, such trash is the equivalent of "honest" "searches for the truth" theology which "proves" there's a "God" by at the ouutset rejecting OBJECTIVITY: as in, "Is there a God>" instead of "There's a God, and I can prove it."
January 26, 2009 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
To JNagarya:
Huh?
January 8, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're an expert on forensics?
January 26, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Bleeb and Truthseeker. If there's anything behind held back about the Kennedy hit, then let's have it.
January 7, 2009 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure. Because nothing can possibly be more pressing or important.
January 7, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now, TOG, the murder of a President whose brother is still alive and hopefully returning is a serious matter even if 45 years have elapsed. With our economy collapsing and a million other problems to solve it's obviously not the only matter to be considered but it's still important.
January 26, 2009 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear! Hear!
January 7, 2009 12:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
January 7, 2009 7:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
From early intercepts of Cuban diplomatic communications, it was clear that, far from being involved, Castro's people were as mystified by the assassination as the rest of the world. "The assassination of Kennedy," said one message from Havana to its embassy in Mexico City, "was a provocation against world peace, perfectly and thoroughly planned by the most reactionary sectors of the United States." An intercept of a message from Brazil's ambassador to Cuba back to his Foreign Office indicated that Cuban officials "were unanimous in believing that any other president would be 'even worse'" than Kennedy.
_____
Right: We believe "Commie" cover-story propaganda when it supports our anti-"Commie" conspirabunk.
January 7, 2009 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
To JNagarya:
Are all conspiracy theories including the one about John Wilkes Booth automatically "conspirabunk"?
January 8, 2009 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
When those who want a conspiracy to be a conspiracy, but lack the basic forms of expertise to conduct "invstigation" and evaluation of evidence and facts get "on the case," we are dealing with lack of competence.
When they BEGIN with the premise that there WAS a conspiracy, they are rejecting objectivity AT THE OUTSET.
January 26, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about when you begin with the premise that there is not a conspiracy? I began with that premise in 1963 and changed my mind by 1966 due to what I had heard and read. Later, Josiah Thompson's SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS really convinced me to research even more about the JFK assassination.
January 26, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't begin with the premise that there wasn't a conspiracy. In fact, as I detailed in one of my posts in this thread, I went back and forth on the question for decades.
Mark Lane began the cottage industry as result of his irresponsibility with Rush to Judgment. I thought that was compelling until I got an education in law and realized he was published ONLY the DEFENSE THEORY of the case. It was and is NOT OBJECTIVE. His goal was to change the subject -- to take the focus off of Oswald and put it on an unsubstantiated "conspiracy".
January 26, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then it wouldn't matter to you if the records regarding this "secret anti-Castro cell" being made public were to jeopardize the lives of Cuban Nationals?
January 7, 2009 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Names of Cuban nationals who are still alive could be redacted.
If it is the case that any of these Cuban nationals participated in the plot, then they deserve to die anyway.
I don't think that if a wacko killed Obama we would be justified to cover the murder up because some Cuban national might be in danger 45 years later.
January 7, 2009 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Simply redacting a person's name does not protect them from being exposed as a source.
You are assuming that the data in the FOIA requested documents will reveal something incriminating, and as yet unknown about the Kennedy assassination. That is exceedingly unlikely. Vast conspiracy theories are lame.
January 7, 2009 9:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Vast conspiracy theories are lame? What about the well-documented conspiracy to get us into Iraq based on trumped up intelligence? Just sayin'
January 7, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
He won't answer you Scooter. He's either delusional or working on a payroll. He would probably argue that Curveball made honest mistakes of memory, and the White House had no reason to doubt his claims.
January 7, 2009 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
a 911 truther calls me delusional? rotlmao. still think Northwoods was a CIA plot?
here's a new conspiracy theory for you: i didn't answer right away, because I had business to attend to, and did not return to this site until now.
January 7, 2009 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's the ticket: there are only two kinds of people:
1. One religiously "knows" there was a conspiracy. Or --
2. Everyone else is a member of the conspiracy.
January 26, 2009 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neocons lying us into the Iraq war is hardly a vast conspiracy theory. There is a difference from criminal conspiracy and conspiracy theory.
If the War Upon Iraq had been a part of a vast conspiracy, there would have been WMDs planted in Iraq as proof.
January 7, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
JFK and Iraq (and 9/11) were criminal conspiracies.
How was Iraq not a vast conspiracy?
White House Iraq Group
+
George Tenet/factions of the CIA
+
coerced intel from CIA underlings
+
Iraqi National Congress (Chalabi, Curveball, Federal funding)
+
Widespread media deception (flashy scary graphics, almost exclusive use of war proponents, and minimal anti-war guests/talking heads, trivialization of huge anti-war protests, NY Times Executive Editor Bill Keller giving Judy Miller/Michael Gordon front page real estate to spread lies (over fierce internal objections), Networks hiring retired Generals to promote the war, while knowing full well the Generals had serious conflicts of interest, broad refusal to point out that the U.S. gave Iraq their chemical weapons, condoned their use on civilians, and sent Donald Rumsfield to visit Saddam to show support after Kurds were gassed, etc, etc, et effing c.
+
Total Congressional Complicity
+
Infamous 16 words
+
Outing of Valerie Plame to discredit Joe Wilson and intimidate others
+
Colin Powell reciting what he knew to be lies to the U.N. and the world
+
Downing Street Memo, and it's proof of British knowledge that the case for invasion was scrounged up AFTER the decision to invade had occurred
=
VAST CONSPIRACY
What more do you need? JFK's assassination was not too much more complicated than that. Even Dan Rather participated, by viewing the Zapruder film in a private screening and reporting that the shot pushed JFK's head forward violently, instead of the actual back and to the left. Here's young Rather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXi0usMq30E
Since the Zapruder film was in the safe hands of Life Magazine, which was owned by Skull and Bonesman and CIA propagandist Henry Luce, Rather's producers were probably told by their handlers that the film would never be made public, so their young puppet should describe the head as going forward.
Just accept it. Establishments take care of themselves by any means necessary, and vast conspiracies are sometimes "necessary."
January 7, 2009 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think there's a vast conspiracy, plotted and initiated by the powerful minority that secretly controls the tin-foil-hat industry. And that the intent of their vast conspiracy is to bullshit everyone that there's a vast conspiracy by others.
And that the vast conspiracy by others makes their vast conspiracy, part of which is to deny their vast conspiracy exists, necessary to the security of they don't dare, or adamantly will not, reveal as to identity.
And I have the on-location eye-witness video to prove it. Send $9.95 to:
Knight Time
Box X,
00000-0000.3
with request for "Plan 9 from Outer Space". Among the evidence shown in this eye-witless documentary are flying saucers, disguised as pie-shaped tin-foil plates hanging from threads, while flying menacingly toward an electric fan turned up high.
January 7, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said, billwalker.
January 26, 2009 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The media's bottom line is cash, cash, and more cash. They'll promote any view to that end, without regard for fact and truth -- which includes publishing religotracts scribbled out by members of the vast JFK conspiracy industry.
January 26, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's no mystery. Watch the Zapruder film. JFK was obviously shot from the front.
January 26, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're an expert in ballistics and forensics?
January 26, 2009 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope just a human being with two good eyes and a brain. I can tell when Ryan Howard hits a home run to right field that it went to right field from home plate. The Zapruder film is that easy to interpret. Watch it again.
January 26, 2009 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
And fifteen witnesses to an event will have fifteen different descriptions of it.
It requires more than beginning by ruling out all alternatives to conspiracy; otherwise and one is stacking the deck.
January 26, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope - the emperor has no clothes as everyone could see but the child had to call them on it. Also Dreyfus clearly didn't write those border notes as anyone could see if he/she didn't listen to the "experts". I ask anyone following this exchange to watch the Zapruder film and tell us what you see. It's not an Agatha Christie mystery - it's as plain as day!
January 26, 2009 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
"[W]ell documented conspiracy"?
1. Show us the documentation.
2. Substantiate that it was "vast".
January 26, 2009 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
They aren't protecting any foreign nationls. That's a completely bogus argument, a red herring if you will.
If they are protecting anything or anyone it is the agencies and people inside the US and our government that are being protected. Perhaps they are protecting themselves from embarassment as opposed to involvement. We don't know. But that's the point of releasing the documents. It is high time we did know and if someone gets embarrased or exposed well that's just too damn bad.
January 7, 2009 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
you have seen the documents in question, and know for a fact that no Cuban Nationals would be exposed were they to be released?
Perhaps? that's fine deductive logic.
Perhaps James Bamford is a NSA dupe or co-conspirator? why didn't you address the "Body of Secrets" citation?
January 7, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
They aren't protecting foreign nationals. I don't have to read any of the excuses or documentation of the excuses to know that. Even if they were, they could release the information in a way that protected them. 99% of the time the refusal of the government to release information is internally driven and unnecessary. This case is no different. The argument that they are protecting anyone outside their institution is simply bogus and it's especially bogus 45 years after the fact.
January 7, 2009 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
They aren't protecting . . . .
If they are protecting . . . .
_____
Now that's so religious an "argument" as to be a blind leap of faith.
Architectural clue: "IF" does not stretch far enough to make a bridge between the "YES!" of absolute certitude, and the off-the-cliff walking-on-air "Huh?"
January 7, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I shold have said "even if" but you are niggling on a very small point and missing the bigger point which is that the entire argument that the CI fucking A is protecting sources is nothing but pure unadulterated bullshit. They are simply being an overly secretive government agency, likely protecting the institution from embarassment or exposure but that isn't one of the protected areas under FOIA. They make these bogus arguments all the time. This is also known as lieing which is part and parcel of what the CIA does.
January 8, 2009 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"[N]iggling"?
Writing is thinking on paper, and thus perfectly reflects that nature -- quality, or not -- of one's thinking.
REwriting is the process of critically evaluating ONE'S OWN THINKING in order to correct the errors in it.
The critical evaluation of one's own thinking in the rewriting -- and rewriting again and again -- is a direct means of practicing and making habit of the fundamentals of logic.
And yet again: Wehn one's PREMISE is that there WAS a conspiracy, objectivity is rejected and all other possibilities excluded.
January 26, 2009 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Psuedo,
Ok, but am I a cold-hearted bitch for momentarily thinking that it might be worth the exposure of a few aged Cuban nationals to completely shut down the huge JFK conspiracy industry? :-)
Well, you don't have to answer that, because on second thought, what a silly goose I am to think for a second that that would be the result. What would happen if everything was released unredacted is a complete revival of the industry, requiring gazillions of new words explaining how the Obama administration is in on the scam and created out of whole cloth all the extra information confirming Oswald's one-man job.
January 7, 2009 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
What!? You hadn't heard that Oswald and Obama attended the same racially-integrated schools in Leningrad, TX, and actually "palled around together"?
And that there are marginalia in the secret/withheld elementary school records which can only lead to the conclusion that they were the originators of the JFK conspiracy? The conspiracy, that is, hatched by JFK himself to disappear for the insurance money behind the hoax that he was assassinated?
January 7, 2009 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it lame to you that an impostor impersonated Oswald in Mexico City in September/October 1963.
Is it lame to you that autopsy photographer John Stringer said his pictures were developed in Ektachrome film while the National Archives pictures use ANSCO film?
Is it lame to you that while autopsy doctor Finck said in 1965 that he examined Kennedy's brain after November 29, doctors Humes and Boswell place the date at Monday, November 25? Have you read the Blumberg report? Do people have two brains?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05E1DA113EF933A25752C1A96E958260
Is that lame?
The mortician who embalmed Kennedy, Thomas Robinson, and many others, described a fist-sized wound to the back of Kennedy's head. Is that lame?
The cameras stationed outside the CIA Mexico City should have taken automatic pictures of Oswald during his visit there, but such pictures have never appeared. Is that lame?
January 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
By labeling conspiracy theories "lame" people get away with them. By labeling those of us who were always against the Iraq War "disloyal to the troops" the war wages on.
I did not believe that there was a conspiracy with Kennedy's assassination until I researched it myself; urged on by a friend. I have absolutely no doubt about it now at all, and neither would anyone who bothered to check on all the facts that are available. I didn't believe it because I didn't want to bother. But you are right, and I agree we should know the facts.
Jacqueline Kennedy knew. That is why she left the country; to protect her children.
January 7, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I went back and forth on whether there was a conspiracy responsible for the JFK assassination. I read dozens of books "proving" it, over decades. The various "schools" of "proof" of "conspiracy" are as irreconcilable as the seversal schools of the "science" of psychology that can't be reconciled.
I finally concluded that the only "conspiracy" is the JFK assassination-by-conspiracy industry conspiracy to convince everyone that there was a "conspiracy" other than their conspiracy.
I do feel wistful about it all, though; I'm disappointed those tin-foil pie-shaped flying saucers actually are tin-foil pie-shaped pie pans hanging from the ceiling on threads.
January 7, 2009 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to have the temerity to disagree with you, JNagarya, but I do. As a matter of fact the JFK conspiracy is a "transparent conspiracy".
January 8, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don't like the facts! I want different facts!
"So I'll change the rules of the game: it wasn't merely a 'conspiracy: it was a transparent conspiracy!!!!
"(And if that isn't sufficient means by which to elude the debunkings I'll imagine up another dodge.)"
January 26, 2009 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Transparent" as in obvious to anyone who researches it. Look at the Zapruder film.
January 26, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear! Hear!, CVille DeM.
January 8, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not lame, but what do you think the chances are that Obama will waste one iota of energy trying to force CIA documents on the JFK assasination to light?
How about documenting more recent abominations like rendition, torture, etc.?
January 7, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I figured I should add that I totally agree with you, and I think it is one of the darkest marks on this country that we still have no clear answer as to who killed JFK.
January 7, 2009 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
What you mean "We," kemo sabi?
January 7, 2009 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love a good conspiracy theory. I'd like to see the documents released so we could have more answers, but it's way down on the list of priorities for me. Maybe it's something we tackle during Obama's second term.
January 7, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's hope Obama gets re-elected then.
January 7, 2009 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I was little, I liked history, especially the history of the ancient world. Egypt's King Tut always interested me, and everyone, including many Egyptologists, believed that there was a massive conspiracy to have him murdered, owing to the known inability to turn his head and the fluid shown in the back of his head. Some people would say, "is that lame?".
Yes. Yes it is. National Geographic had the body subjected to a CT scan. The fluid was the fault of a lazy embalmer, and the spine may or may not have been deformed in his life. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0506/feature1/text2.html
People see patterns where they do not exist, but more importantly, they fear what they do not understand. Lee Harvey Oswald's motives are hard to fathom, especially to those who loved Kennedy, so it must be something else, more sinister. It's easy to blame the CIA, a group we progressives have never liked, for the plot. It's also, in my mind, absurd.
January 7, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
What really irritates me is that the government is hired by the people and yet refuses to inform the people what they have done while employed by the people. We have a right to everything, IMHO. We paid them to do the work, now we are entitled to know what work they did.
January 7, 2009 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will not sleep until I know who killed Cock Robin. Then with what. Then where. Then if there was a CIA connection. And we know they really won't release everything when they do.
January 7, 2009 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if we were told the ACTUAL truth about who assassinated Bambi.
Was Bambi really an undercover agent dressed as an adorable baby deer?
January 7, 2009 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
IN some way I don't entirely understand, Obama's election feels to me to be finally putting closure to the vast, stinking, festering psychic sore that stems from the assassinations, Vietnam and the times since.
I don't believe the JFK assassination truth is the most important thing we can address right now, but speaking merely as one who lived through '63 and cannot let it go entirely, it is important nonetheless.
I look at it this way: Let's see ALL the facts. It's been long enough. If the facts are fully flushed out into the open and they don't reveal a conspiracy or -- most likely -- a fuckup of colossal proportions by the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, or some other agency, then fine. Or maybe we'll find out that some dark and murderous forces unleashed by Bobby Kennedy's efforts to whack Fidel somehow rebounded to kill his brother in the kind of Greek tragic twist that he would have been familiar with.
Or, maybe, Lee Harvey really did it all by his own, crazed, genius-marksman self.
We at least will know.
If the facts do show a mob connection, or a Cuban connection, or -- most likely, IMHO -- a combination of mob and borderline right-wing Dallas millionaires and KKK sympathizers who wanted to get rid of the Papist and keep us in Vietnam so they could make more money, then we need to know that, too. We need to know so that we will understand how the psychotic twists and turns that we've been subjected to from Vietnam on are their fault, and we need to plough the earth their graves are in and sow the land and everything they ever touched, and that their children and grandchildren have, with so much salt that nothing associated with them will ever live again.
It's a beginning, anyway.
We need to know the truth, whatever it is.
January 7, 2009 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the Bill Moyers documentary "Buying the War"
about the media conspiracy to sell us the war:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html
January 7, 2009 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah! SOLID proof there was a conspiracy behind the JFK assasination!
But I don't think Bill Moyers had part in it.
January 7, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's footage of the Secret Service stand down order to the agents guarding the back of JFK's car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jfk&emb=0&aq=f&aq=f
January 7, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are we to speculate that your lack of evidence for your unsubstantiated conspirabunk proves it true?
Are we to believe that your actually leaving THIS thread open for comment means your aren't yet again acting from less-than-pure America-hating motives?
Why do you hate the gov't, when in reality the gov't is WE THE PEOPLE?
January 7, 2009 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Secret Service Stand-Down Order!
Five-hour film of it at 11:00!
January 7, 2009 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I only care about UFOs
January 7, 2009 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
See above.
I cared about flying saucers too -- until I discovered too late that I had been seduced and abandoned by a tin-foil-pie-pan-on-a-thread-from-the-ceiling-is-actually-a-flying saucer-from-outer-space hoax.
January 7, 2009 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
THEY ARE REAL AND THEY ARE HERE. Otherwise how did they find me three different times in twenty years in the middle of the night--and get this--at three different addresses.
January 7, 2009 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dickday, have you forgotten the faked moon landing?
/snark.
January 7, 2009 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't forget the faked moon landing because it didn't happen, so I didn't remember it when it didn't happen.
I'd ask that you fill me in about it, but as it didn't happen . . .
January 7, 2009 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was not faked. Shadows work differently on the moon. There is different gravitas.
January 7, 2009 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
We can only hope that Pannetta is a different kind of CIA director than Allen Dulles, or Richard Helms, or Poppy Bush, or all the other disinformationists, plausible deniers, and bald-faced liars.
Tim Fleming
www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.html
http://leftlooking.blogspot.com
January 7, 2009 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink