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Should the White House Punch Down?
Morning Joe, like many of his right wing buddies, frequently equates right and left wing extremists as the same stating that "extremists on the left did the same when Bush was President, calling him Hitler."(paraphrased) Mika frets whenever a story appears to be hitting the right wing's extremists over some looney claim (eg. birthers) without reminding everyone that extremists on the left called Bush II Hitler, when he was in office. She likes equivalence even when its false.
Please tell me if my memory serves me right. During the Clinton and Bush II eras, I don't remember hearing anything about Clinton murdering Vince Foster or Bush being called Hitler in the mainstream media. I remember seeing 30 seconds or so of mainstream coverage on the million (more than fringe) person anti-war demonstration in England, weeks before BUSH II invaded Iraq. The left-wing fringes who believe that Bush II let Al Queda hit the WTC towers in order to invade Iraq and steal their oil also received little coverage except after Rosie O'Donnell pushed it on her show and later on "The View." Even then I don't think it got much coverage.
Neither the left-wing or the right-wing fringes got much mainstream coverage in the Clinton and Bush II eras. At least that's my memory. But with Obama, it seems like the extremists on the right are going mainstream. The town halls, birthers and teabaggers made their way into mainstream venues when in the past they would have been largely ignored. If so, doesn't that make "them" very different from their counterparts on the left?
Those of us who follow politics closer are likely to be aware of most of these stories. When these stories go mainstream, it lends some credence to the story and influences a percentage of the population, even if its a small percentage. If anything, during most of Bush II's tenure, the right-wing and its extremists moved more mainstream, left-wing extremists were ignored and more moderate liberals were marginalized. So much for the liberal media.
So why is the mainstream media covering such nonsense? Obviously, the media needs controversy to draw an audience. The fact that this is what they have turned to, speaks to the powerlessness of the Republican party in general, and the weakness of moderate republicans. It isn't that no reasonable leader in the Republican Party exist, but the party will not accept a reasonable Republican as their leader. Additionally, more moderate outlets, see Fox New's success and hope to improve their ratings by inching in their direction. More extreme views make it onto CNN and other outlets.
IMO, the White House has good reason to break tradition and push back against the mainstreaming of these extremists, including Fox News because more and more, the fringes are gaining mainstream attention and that attention is likely to influence a percentage of the population. If you keep getting hit, and ignore the attacks, ala Sen. Kerry's swift-boating, then you run the risk of appearing weak and losing support.
Gallup headlines that Obama's September '09 media blitz had no effect on the President's job approval. Said another way the slow, long-term drop in the President's approval was halted after the media blitz. There was a point to the blitz and it was somewhat successful.
Fox's ratings rose after the White House's comments last week. Some view this as a win for Fox news and a lost for the White House. I don't think so. Those viewers are tuning in to see what the White House is talking about. I think shining more light on Glenn Beck is good. Perhaps it will help keep CNN from needing to slide further to the right.
If you found this post of interest, provocative, or believe others might benefit from reading it, please recommend. Thanks.
Modified and reposted.
Please tell me if my memory serves me right. During the Clinton and Bush II eras, I don't remember hearing anything about Clinton murdering Vince Foster or Bush being called Hitler in the mainstream media. I remember seeing 30 seconds or so of mainstream coverage on the million (more than fringe) person anti-war demonstration in England, weeks before BUSH II invaded Iraq. The left-wing fringes who believe that Bush II let Al Queda hit the WTC towers in order to invade Iraq and steal their oil also received little coverage except after Rosie O'Donnell pushed it on her show and later on "The View." Even then I don't think it got much coverage.
Neither the left-wing or the right-wing fringes got much mainstream coverage in the Clinton and Bush II eras. At least that's my memory. But with Obama, it seems like the extremists on the right are going mainstream. The town halls, birthers and teabaggers made their way into mainstream venues when in the past they would have been largely ignored. If so, doesn't that make "them" very different from their counterparts on the left?
Those of us who follow politics closer are likely to be aware of most of these stories. When these stories go mainstream, it lends some credence to the story and influences a percentage of the population, even if its a small percentage. If anything, during most of Bush II's tenure, the right-wing and its extremists moved more mainstream, left-wing extremists were ignored and more moderate liberals were marginalized. So much for the liberal media.
So why is the mainstream media covering such nonsense? Obviously, the media needs controversy to draw an audience. The fact that this is what they have turned to, speaks to the powerlessness of the Republican party in general, and the weakness of moderate republicans. It isn't that no reasonable leader in the Republican Party exist, but the party will not accept a reasonable Republican as their leader. Additionally, more moderate outlets, see Fox New's success and hope to improve their ratings by inching in their direction. More extreme views make it onto CNN and other outlets.
IMO, the White House has good reason to break tradition and push back against the mainstreaming of these extremists, including Fox News because more and more, the fringes are gaining mainstream attention and that attention is likely to influence a percentage of the population. If you keep getting hit, and ignore the attacks, ala Sen. Kerry's swift-boating, then you run the risk of appearing weak and losing support.
Gallup headlines that Obama's September '09 media blitz had no effect on the President's job approval. Said another way the slow, long-term drop in the President's approval was halted after the media blitz. There was a point to the blitz and it was somewhat successful.
Fox's ratings rose after the White House's comments last week. Some view this as a win for Fox news and a lost for the White House. I don't think so. Those viewers are tuning in to see what the White House is talking about. I think shining more light on Glenn Beck is good. Perhaps it will help keep CNN from needing to slide further to the right.
If you found this post of interest, provocative, or believe others might benefit from reading it, please recommend. Thanks.
Modified and reposted.
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I agree. At first I thought the White House was "lowering itself" somehow to take on Fox, but the more I think about it and the more I see people react to it, I'm becoming convinced that it is a risky, but perhaps very needed, step. Anyone reading this is a political junkie - we don't count in this analysis. Folks who go about their daily business and pay more attention to other things in life for the most part see Fox as simply "another" news channel, an increasingly popular one, taking its turn as the most-watched, just as CBS did and later on NBC. And if that's all they watch, who is going to clue them in that what they are hearing is anything but "fair and balanced" ??
It's certainly unual for an administration to single out a single news channel ...... and decidedly unusual for this "no drama"/"avoid direct conflict" administration to do so. But the very fact that it IS unusual may be enough to get John and Jane Doe to at least question what they have been taking in as undisputed truth.
Every once in a while I'll drop something, just a small comment, about Fox -- and people at work are shocked. Since I'm well known as the (token) liberal Dem, I don't think they are shocked I don't like Fox .... they are shocked that I would actually question its accuracy! Someone very high up recently said to me "But Bill O'Reilly is a very careful researcher - he always makes sure of his facts before he talks about something." Er, no - not really, sir. (I dredged up some accounts of his "there are no homeless veterans" tirade from back during the campaign to show why I might be suspicious of the man's facts.)
October 19, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Every once in a while I'll drop something, just a small comment, about Fox -- and people at work are shocked."
Which flies in the face of the often repeated meme, that most people know what the difference between entertainment and journalism. Unfortunately, the reality is that many people believe the Fox News hype, "fair and balance." My God, that was painful to write. It is what it is.
October 19, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fox is more balanced than any other major news outlet. Yes, they lean right, but they do have numerous leftwing guests (Far more than the occasional token moderate that the other outlets call their conservative. On ABC it is not uncommon to see the left/right view presented by 2 different Clinton admin members. Now that's balanced!). Obama's administration was pissed at Wallace for fact checking the VA director and pointing out she was not telling the truth. They prefer the media to accept their lies unchallenged.
October 19, 2009 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, BD, I honestly am trying to figure out a way to empathize with you. You are being used to a pathetic degree. I wonder how many dogs who think they are clever agree with you. It's looking like 23% or so.
How is this going to end? My dream is that when all of you "used people" who have been suckered by fake wedge issues -- realize that they can take their children to the doctor for well-baby checks; they can have Pap Smears, and get blood pressure medicine BEFORE they have a stroke -- maybe they'll stop screaming "SOCIALISM" and start voting for those who believe in the common good.
Sorry. I know the "common good" is equivalent to a curse-word for you, but maybe you'll evolve.
October 19, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are delusional if you think the democrats care about the common good. They care about power, and use populism and class warfare to obtain it. Healthcare is their great idea on how to cement their control over our lives. I can do all the things you 'dream' of now, I have a doctor and I have insurance (which I pay for). You imagine that government control will somehow make it free. No, it will not. It will limit choices and make other people pay the cost, and you may find that you are one of the other people.
October 20, 2009 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
You delusional to think Fox News is fair and balanced. This is the old Ailes trick. Nothing is truthful. Everything is distorted. You tell everyone the other guys lying, while you lie through your teeth with every breath.
No one says health care will be free. If you think that Democrats believe that then you have deluded yourself. Did you get that idea from Fox News?
The income for wealthy has rising by 600% in the past 30 years while middle class income has risen 22%. You think these guys deserve it? The last time we had this disparity of income between the classes, was just before the Great Depression. Too much play money in too few hands. The government let go of the controls over the financial sector and look what happened. The f'ed up the world's economy. Like in sports you need referees. Otherwise you get anarchy.
You think the guys that created the financial collapse deserve to get paid multi-million dollar bonuses?
I have a doctor and I have insurance
Good. But how about the people who can't afford it?
It will limit choices and make other people pay the cost, and you may find that you are one of the other people.
If you pay taxes or pay for insurance, you pay for it anyway. When someone without insurance goes to a hospital, someone else pays for it. That's you.
I don't mind paying for it. As long as the insurance company anti-trust (monopoly) exemption is eliminated and a public option exists. I'm not interested in continuing to pay for an insurance company's sky rocketing profit for the sake of wall street's casinos. I'm not interested in paying for an insurance company executive's multi-million dollar bonus for a day's work.
Health insurance should first be about health, not profit.
October 20, 2009 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you appoint yourself Czar of who is worth what, and you get to decide instead of the market place? The government didn't let go of the controls, they mandated that bad loans be made to people who couldn't pay them back. FNM and FRE created a market for bad paper, the Justice dept threatened banks with lawsuits if they didn't approve more low income loans. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were major players in the fiasco.
If everyone who needs treatment is getting it anyway as you say, then why the urgent need to remake the whole system?
You simply want to destroy the insurance business, which is what a gov't option would do. No company can compete with a gov't than can print money. So then the gov't takes over and Obama gets to decide who gets treated and what is covered. No thanks.
October 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You simply want to destroy the insurance business, which is what a gov't option would do. No company can compete with a gov't than can print money.
Public option exists in Australia right along side private insurance industry. How'd they do that? Not everyone wants to sign up with public option. I would probably continue to pay for "lower priced" private insurance (thanks to the PO), one that doesn't need to give tens of million of dollars in bonuses to it's CEO and other top executives.
In the past 8 years, insurance company profits have risen 428%. (Fox News won't tell you that). Those company profits will shrink with a public option.
Did you know that an anti-trust exemption exist for insurance companies? (Fox News won't tell you that either) Do you know what that does to pricing?
The government didn't let go of the controls, they mandated that bad loans be made to people who couldn't pay them back.
You've been listening too much to Fox News. Go read up on Glass-Steagel. Then take a look at bank failures before and after Reagan took office and started deregulating banks. You can see the effect before and after government controls are released.
If everyone who needs treatment is getting it anyway as you say, then why the urgent need to remake the whole system?
'Everyone' gets treatment on an emergency basis. That cost a lot more. You probably don't know that cause its not part of Fox New's meme.
October 20, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Personally I think the Fox 'sucks' and I never watch it, listen to it, allow it to permeate my senses.
That being said the First Amendment to the United States Constitution (part of the Bill of Rights) states "...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances..."
Bush was slowly but surely striping away our rights. The Obama administration would be following in his footsteps if it was allowed to determine who was and who was not Press.
I do not appreciate the piffle Fox News spreads.
But I will , vociferously, defend Fox News right, to make a jackass of themselves.
October 19, 2009 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I listen to them about 1/2 hour per week, mostly 5 minutes at a time, just to get a sense. The station is not interested in telling the truth. They are interested in speaking to those people who believe winning is all that matters. Whether that's accomplished by truth, lie or delusion doesn't matters.
So they bring you 2 months of wall to wall birther coverage not because they have any proof, but because they know the innuendo, half truths and lies can help erode support for the other side.
Talking socialism is fine. Inflating it with Hitler and the rest is demagoguery. That's their forte.
October 20, 2009 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
This issue is, for me at least, easy to answer. Is it reasonable to believe that Fox will simply stop its propaganda if it's ignored? Of course not. Fox has a large audience, and its propaganda is clearly paying it dividends. Therefore it must be addressed. The WH has the bully pulpit - and the skills - to slap Fox down when it lies or parrots GOP talking points. It should therefore do so, under those circumstances, which is pretty much all the time, except maybe sports (even then I'm not so sure). I don't think it's an issue of first amendment rights. The WH is not preventing Fox from broadcasting, it is disputing Fox's point of view, as it is freely entitled to.
October 20, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't watch Fox News. Pretty easy to avoid when you don't have cable. I've only seen the content when people link to online content so I can follow the threads, or when I tune across it when staying in hotels w/o Internet access on business trips.
I have been known to ask bartenders to change the channel...One of the things I miss most about having given up the juice!
When the local cable monopoly and the satellite providers send sales drones to knock on my door, I tell them I will never subscribe to their media as long as the basic package includes Fox's content. I hope they don't call my bluff, as I really don't need to expand the variety of crap programming on my television....but if they were to start charging extra for the Rupert content, I guess I'd have to as a matter of principal.
October 20, 2009 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink