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In principle, that is, with Tesla's new offering, the Model S. Priced at roughly half of the Roadster's six figures, the sedan can be charged in 45 minutes for 160 miles, or go 300 miles with the larger battery option. We're having trouble, some of us, remembering that batteries are not only those things in our cellphones; they also served to sink Nazi and Japanese shipping, powering our hybrid diesel-electric WW II submarines. And they can run trains just as easily.
But I would say we should still use liquid or gaseous fuels for most long-distance transport. These can be derived from several non-fossil sources: Ethanol of course, which should not be from edible corn but from trash cellulose; solar-derived hydrogen peroxide is a compact form of chemical energy, also used in WW II for submarines (Germany); hydrogen can be stored in metallic "sponge" for leak-free safety; and solar-derived hydrogen can be feedstock for methane made with CO2 captured from the atmosphere. Some algae yields 80% burnable oil by weight, and there is all that fast-food frying oil out there, for diesels.
While a train can include a separate car or two with an immense battery set, a long-range car or bus should be a full series hybrid, not the parallel versions we use now. Instead of a fairly powerful gasoline engine assisted by an electric motor, a series hybrid (like a train engine or strip-mine truck) only uses its fuel engine as a generator. There is a big increase in efficiency when that motor can be run full out, on or off, without the challenge of smooth throttle response.
I would like a car with an electric motor like the Tesla's, but with a smaller battery set, a fuel tank, and a fuel motor just a little bigger than needed for holding highway speed. This would be roughly 30 hp or so, for a Prius-sized car. The excess allows recharging while holding speed, to provide acceleration and hill power. And with a dedicated generator/engine, mileage should be near 100 mpg.
With no need for acceleration power and no need for good throttle response, any fuel works, from methane to alcohol, or a diesel could run on algae oil and used frying grease. And the mid-size battery set would still allow straight charging from homeowner's or employer's solar panels, for a fuel-free commute. Trucks have plenty of room for batteries, and little need for fast acceleration; getting up the hill is enough. Satisfying trucking power demand should be easier than for the automobile, and trains are easier yet. Long-haul freight already gets the equivalent of 300 mpg---how hard could it be to run those trains on batteries? But they don't need to, since they are so maxed out for efficiency already. Still, it's fun to think about railroads lining their rights-of-way with solar panels and electrifying the rails, with the train engine taking extra juice to keep its batteries topped for those grades and cloudy days.
If employers at large sites like the Pentagon covered their parking lots with solar panels they could sell power to employees, as well as to the community grid. Does 600 megawatts sound like a large amount? It's a medium-sized coal plant, or the Pentagon's peak solar power output using its 3 square kilometers of roof and parking. Next time you fly, look out the window at all the warehouse and store roofs , the parking lots, and the roadways. Cover that with solar.
First Solar is supplying panels at $1/Watt in large quantities, and that price will work its way down to smaller setups soon. The Tesla Roadster needs roughly 10 KwHrs for a 50-mile commute roundtrip. A setup with 2000W peak output, maybe ten square meters, could deliver that charge in a day's shift at work. That's something like 8ft. by 12 ft., or a parking slot, roofed with panels, protecting the car from sun and hail. True that its usefulness is somewhat seasonal, but still worth it if the parking slot can earn a few extra bucks every day, even when it's empty. The panels keep the bird droppings off your Tesla, too. The lot probably would charge a premium, higher than average home rates, but convenient for heading home with a full charge, and it could be a deductible expense to offset that cost, for users.
My next car will likely have an electric motor---cool, I'm tired of the sound of pistons pounding and the complexity of fuel delivery and ignition. The little generator engine will be nearly silent, and when pulling power I'll just hear gears humming.
















Good summation Tom. Encouraging. I hope there will be components of the stimulus package that promote these technologies. Oh... and if you buy a Tesla, can I drive it?
March 27, 2009 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
... Hi Tom . . .
How's it going there in the windy city?
Here .. Meet Aptera
Mine is reserved and on the line right now as I type.
Perfect for inner-city commutes when I'm not riding my bike or using the subway and light rail.
~OGD~
March 27, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Oh and . . . Here ...
This is an article in the NY Times that was published yesterday
wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/.../another-view-of-the-electric-future
Enjoy . . .
~OGD~
March 27, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice ride Duck!
March 27, 2009 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Figures the Duck would want that thing with wings! ;-)
Seriously, how much are they supposed to retail for, OGD? Gorgeous vehicles, but no way we'll have them up here for a while, at -40, bad potholes and snowdrifts!
March 27, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cute little thing. But boxy is so useful, it keeps coming back.
Anybody have a good all-season bicycle recommendation? I'd like something with studded tires and a fairing.
March 28, 2009 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Tom,
I lived in Fairbanks for a few years, and I ran into some serious winter bike riders at the local bike shop. They have winter riding all figured out. Here is a website I found:
http://www.allweathersports.com/winter/winter.html
Nice article, the next car I buy will have an electric motor of some sort.
March 28, 2009 1:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I mainly need the studded tires, for the snow/ice/pavement uncertainty. (Hurts to fall down on ice.) Super-low temps not an issue usually, here, and I just want to get to the train in sloppy conditions.
March 28, 2009 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like the Aptera, but the report I saw on it said that in order to drive it in Calfornia, you had to have a motorcycle license.
I like the Tesla roadster better though. :-) (Well... except for the price)
March 28, 2009 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is encouraging Like my friend Miguel says.
March 27, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Tom. I love the Tesla's, but if you want a car with an electric motor, but a smaller battery, a fuel tank & a gas engine of 30 hp or so... then you'll be able to get a Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV.) And there's lots coming. The Chevy Volt is just one particular incarnation, and being 1st Generation, it won't be perfect, but... still, it only needs 16 kwh's of battery, and a 1.4 liter engine. Lots of PHEV makers look to be coming in with even smaller batteries (5-10 kwh), and smaller gas engines. (Volt's gas engine will be downsized, at least to 1.0 liters, but they wanted something already being produced, off the shelf as it were.)
And once you shift 70%-80% of a car's gas needs to electricity, what's left is small enough that ethanol, biodiesel, etc. (from different sources) can handle it.
I'll be happy with wind-power here, thanks, and let you all lead on solar... as each wind-turbine we put up will take 5,000 cars or so off gas. "Ride The Wind," baby!
March 27, 2009 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm waiting for more work on large-scale batteries like redox flow. Plenty of wind in arctic climes, eh? I envision turbines at lonely windswept outposts, polar bears sniffing around, and the electro-juice being packaged as charged redox or separated hydrogen for shipment to NYC.
If a house has enough battery it can store that wind power, and use groundwater for heat, driven by electric pumps running off your very own electrons. Split water for hydrogen-based liquid fuel to fill the SnowCat.
March 28, 2009 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wowsers Tom!
That went (whoosh) over my head. But it shouldn't.
(shuffles feet)
I have some studying to do.
March 27, 2009 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, butanol (butane alcohol) is probably a better bet than ethanol. Both can, in theory, be made from cellulosic wastes. Neither can be made economically yet.
I'd like to see the new fast-charge LiFePO4 batteries become a reality, and find out what that does to battery-electric car design. There's no reason we could not have charging stations every 50 miles, say, or even embedded into roadways.
March 28, 2009 5:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is that you, Clear Thinker(ct)? If so, I haven't seen any posts from you in a long while. We all come and go from the site sometimes, you know, mental burn-out followed by re-charge.
You, me, codegem86 and others have participated in some good TPM discussion threads regarding alternative energy and electric vehicle technology. Tom Wright would likely find them interesting, wherever they are hiding in the TPM archive.
ct, pardon the above presumption if you're not, in fact, Clear Thinker.
March 28, 2009 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a Chinese company building cars using LiFe... batteries, and that company started out as a battery company! I read that the batteries are expected to get 2000 full charge cycles. At once a day that would be 6 years, not great but not bad.
March 28, 2009 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Batteries are very old technology, hundreds of years old. The newest batteries are only different combinations of chemicals. Batteries still produce waste products. Even more modern fuel cells are simply batteries that have fresh chemicals added to them as they are used up. They are a lot more efficient than exploding gasoline, but still have major drawbacks.
For a real breakthrough we are going to need a new theory or technology. The most likely one I have read are slow release capacitors. Who knows if they will ever figure that out. However, compared to victorian era battery tech, they are very 1900's.
March 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, calling battery tech old is like saying jet engines burn fuel just like a steam locomotive. True, but trivial.
The foundations of wet cells are old, dry cells somewhat younger, lithium is pretty new chemistry,and ultra-capacitors are in use in small apps like flashlights. It is the general concept of batteries, some kind of storage that allows high-efficiency recovery of electricity, that is crucial now, and large-capacity batteries of reasonable size and deep-cycling ability are not the norm.
The reduction-oxidation flow battery is not compact, for now, but is most definitely not Victorian design, and produces no waste, does not wear out, nominally, and has arbitrary capacity and/or output. It uses membranes like fuel cells. A large installation, 750 kilowatt-hours, is in use on King Island, Tasmania. It can run a town of 15,000 for three or four hours, if the wind slows and their wind turbines' output drops.
An initially appealing concept was flywheels, but they are for now only used as super-fast emergency power. The energy density needs are too scary for large wheels, I think. The easiest form to store is chemical, like burnable fuels, since they are slow to degrade. Batteries lose power going in and out, but are pretty good at shelf life. Storing power as compressed air has some value, but loses energy pretty quickly. Hydro plants can pump water uphill, which has good shelf life, but has losses in and out, also.
March 28, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was a little inprecise in my nomenclature. I used the generic word "battery" when I was thinking of the more specific term, galvanic cell. It has been 15 years since I received my chemistry degree, so my word usage was a little rusty. I just usually think of all batteries as galvanic cells. I vaguely remember test questions in which we had to calculate the voltage between two elements in a galvanic cell, but I certainly have no idea how to do that now...
The redox flow battery is interesting, I wasn't up to date on that technology.
Thanks for this post, I usually learn quite a bit from reading your blog.
Here is a trivial battery story you might not have heard about. They finished it while I was living in Fairbanks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2861493/Worlds-biggest-battery-switched-on-in-Alaska.html
March 28, 2009 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Monster solid-state battery, pretty cool. They use it for switch-in, like the flywheel systems I found used for telecom centers. Alaska is an important market for home and other small systems, like little wind turbines, 400w for $600. Check ABS Alaska.
The redox concept can apparently be efficient, with exotic chemicals, but also use more ordinary stuff at low efficiency. It looks like the best thing for houses; an engineer friend calculated that a medium-efficiency one would be able to run an efficient house for a week with four oil drums' worth of liquid, two for the charged and two for the discharged side.
March 28, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just ran across this, thought it might be of interest to know of an argument the Obama administration is listening to:
March 30, 2009 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink