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Reverse Robinhoods, I am not just PISSED I am FUCKING IRATE!!! Sorry about the F bomb but this deserves it. This will be short and to the point!
I just powered up my DVR to watch Bill Moyers Journal, on this episode of "The Journal" Bill had a guest named Emma Coleman Jordan and during their conversation it was pointed out something I did not know,
THAT HALF OF THE FIRST $160 BILLION HANK PAULSON HANDED OUT WENT TO PAY SHAREHOLDER DIVIDENDS!!!!
FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!!
"Gipsies", Tramps and Thieves! Talkin' 'bout the government that we see, call them "Gipsies", Tramps and Thieves!
And people wonder why those Chicago workers at Republic were upset.
It is Reverse Robinhoodism as the Bush Administration steal from the poor to give to the rich!
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Yes I found the Angry Left! And angry for the Right reasons. *Salute* I wish to join you as an angry left brother for this reason.
December 13, 2008 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
How Eastern of KY? Ashland? Greenup?
I am in Jackson, OH.
December 13, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
The joke i make should help. "If not for Pike county West Virginia would invade Kentucky" But right around Pikeville KY
December 13, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I saw that too. Does anyone know a source for that info?
December 13, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Republicans who believe in the free market for the people and socialism for themselves. Hypocrites.
December 13, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Um, unless I'm missing something here - Democrats own stock, too; it's not just repugs. And shareholders are main street.
If it was the Boards of Directors who had been handed the money, I'd be pissed. But it's hardly fair to imagine that every damn person who owns shares is a rich Repuglican. It's not the truth.
Lots of people's retirements depend on these stocks because their companies invested the money.
See the bigger picture, please.
December 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
While, ordinarily, "dividend" is something I associate with the making of a profit, I agree better dividends than executive bonuses.
December 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The bigger picture is that most stocks are earned by the top 2% of the population. Yes, the school teacher might get a small token dividend, but exceedingly wealthy investors (domestic and abroad, like Saudi Arabia) will see much greater dividends based on their ownership of many more shares.
I wouldn't describe this gross corruption as a handout to average people, and if that was indeed the goal, it could have been given directly as a middle class tax break, mortgage relief, etc.
That's the bigger picture.
December 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right but only kind of. Yes, shareholders (either direct or through mutual funds or their pension funds) do benefit from the dividends but:
Paying the dividend was likely irresponsible given the financial conditions of these companies. Thje real return to shareholders is through long-term capital appreciation. Paying the dividend jeopardizes that.
And, of course, the dividend reward goes to the people who own the most stock. That's not Main Street.
December 13, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your point doesn't justify the federal government paying the dividends. When you invest in stocks you take a risk. I doubt that the government supplements my dividend income which will likely fall because of the dead economy. The amount I receive is modest, but neverthless it is 1/3 of my retirement income. The government should not be paying dividends on private equity.
December 13, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure that "half" went to dividends. They are also using the money to buy other troubled banks (like JPM buying WAMU) and I think that helps everybody in the long-run
Honestly, everyone's screaming that the banks still aren't lending money to people. JPMChase has increased its lending this year, but it's not going to start lending $ to people who's LTV on their house is still very high.
There are still a lot of over-leveraged consumers out there who unfortunately aren't going to be getting MORE credit. Chase has also recently announced new programs to stem foreclosures for its customers.
They wouldn't have done all this without the TARP funds
December 13, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think when they are stating that they are not giving loans, the loans they are speaking of are unsecured loans, or redlined loans as they were doing under FM,SM, and the Fannie Mae loans. Seems they were giving loans to everyone and anyone irregardless if they could pay it back. I am not sure how it worked but that seems to be the buzz where I work.
December 13, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to Moyers (and he is one of the few I trust) HALF went to pay DIVIDENDS!
It matters not who got what it matters that rather than doing what the SPIRIT of the TARP was these Corps paid dividends with money they got to help "EASE THE CREDIT CRUNCH"
DAMN I AM MAD!
December 13, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought we were told that it was to help "loosen credit" to support the economy. I don't get how paying dividends loosens credit.
December 14, 2008 7:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't look now, but Evan Bayh and blue dogs have formed a caucus to stamp out radicals like you.
December 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
As our very way of life crumbles like dust.
As we print money to buy and sell the dust.
As we gnash our teeth .... while slowly turning to dust.
I predict a lot of soul-searching.
December 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is going to be my answer to a lot of things now!!
I don't believe in superstars,
Organic food and foreign cars.
I don't believe the price of gold;
The certainty of growing old.
That right is right and left is wrong,
That north and south can't get along.
That east is east and west is west.
And being first is always best.
But I believe in love.
I believe in babies.
I believe in Mom and Dad.
And I believe in you.
Well, I don't believe that heaven waits,
For only those who congregate.
I like to think of God as love:
He's down below, He's up above.
He's watching people everywhere.
He knows who does and doesn't care.
And I'm an ordinary man,
Sometimes I wonder who I am.
But I believe in love.
I believe in music.
I believe in magic.
And I believe in you.
Well, I know with all my certainty,
What's going on with you and me,
Is a good thing.
It's true, I believe in you.
I don't believe virginity,
Is as common as it used to be.
In working days and sleeping nights,
That black is black and white is white.
That Superman and Robin Hood,
Are still alive in Hollywood.
That gasoline's in short supply,
The rising cost of getting by.
But I believe in love.
I believe in old folks.
I believe in children.
I believe in you.
But I believe in love.
I believe in babies.
I believe in Mom and Dad.
And I believe in you.
December 13, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
And are you surprised in any way that our billions in tax dollars have been distributed to stockholders? The time to be upset was BEFORE the great heist, uh, I mean "bailout" for Wall Street. Thank the Democrats in Congress who rolled over for this bullshit including one Barack Obama.
It was bullshit from day one just like the bullshit about WMD's and anyone with half a lick of sense could see it. But apparently, other than Bernie Sanders and a couple of other Democrats with functioning eyes AND balls it was impossible for Democrats in Congress to see this and prevent it. Just remember this, the Democrats--espeicially the centrists are not particularly allies of the people in this country. They are just slightly more progressive in their thinking than full blown troglodyte Republicans, but they serve the same interests and those are not the interests of the people.
December 13, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad Bernie doesn't put his hat in the ring. Maybe we could become the happy left and vote for somebody who isn't afraid to wear the label.
December 13, 2008 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The purpose of giving money to AIG was so they could buy some time to sell off unprofitable assets. To date, they have divested themselves of precisely nothing. Hank Paulson belongs in jail.
December 13, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a liberal, and a business owner, nothing pisses me off more than this REALITY. When you invest in a company, you take a RISK. If the company, whether it is a bank or a drycleaner fails or loses money, you LOSE. Sorry, shareholders are not protected and paying any kind of dividend with this money is DISGUSTING. I have started both a successful and an unsuccessful company, and know firsthand the pain of loss and bankruptcy, and the joy of making money and giving people jobs. The idea that any of these companies should be paying a dividend is just as repulsive as the executive pay. As my business, where I have invested my life savings, reputation, and years of effort, teeters and is ineligible for a "bail-out", my neighbors who invested their money in a crappily managed, speculative financial institution make money. Talk about moral hazard. My retirement is gone, and I get no more credit line for cash-flow, in spite of profitable operations, I am responsible for 200 employees and their families, but my liberal colleagues of many years still think it is OK and can rationalize this. ATROCIOUS thinking and behavior from folks who should now better.
December 13, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jekyl,
It appears you are new. Welcome to TPM! hope you continue to post and stay involved. What business are you in?
December 13, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our current business is representing claimants for Social Security Disability. We are not attorneys, and represent them from the beginning of the process rather than waiting until appeals after 2 years. We employ around 200 people and have several thousand clients across the nation. Before that we consulted government, industry and not-for-profit sectors on disability policy. Even further back, had an applied anthropology consulting group specializing in Latin America, employed a gaggle there too.
The family business for a generation before that was durable medical equipment and moved into disability access - wheelchair lifts, etc. ... - and then eventually into elevators.
Before that we were all roughnecks, miners, cowboys, and literally a butcher, baker and candlestick maker. Original members of the wobblies - Joe Hill, literally a family friend - and UMW, investigated for being communists, arrested protesting nuclear testing.
I don't think anyone, anywhere in the family has ever voted for a Republican (or at least is too ashamed to say so), and that is from original Mormon pioneers in Utah - the reddest state in the country.
Proudly liberal, and a benevolent but hard-nosed capitalist. If I don't make the money and control where it goes, someone else who doesn't give a damn will.
That may help you understand where I am coming from.
December 13, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great posts jekyl.
I totally agree. Shareholders earn dividends based on the investment they make being profitable!
December 13, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
The money should have been paid FIRST to the sub-prime mortgage borrowers, so THEY could have reduced their payments to the point they could make the remaining payments.
THAT money would have still ended up in the hands of the same lenders, but would have helped Joe Main Street first.
This would not have hurt ANYONE, and helped millions.
The amount paid to each borrower would have been not paid off the loans, just to paid to pay down the principle and bring the monthly payments to a manageable level.
...As to dividends, the money should have been used to pay DEBT, not dividends. Dividends are supposed to be FROM SURPLUS PROFITS, not taken out of what should be paid on debts.
So, TWICE they screwed it up.
.
December 13, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is all nothing more than a great big Ponzi scheme. Now that there are no more investors to keep it afloat...it is the public taxdollars financing the Ponzi schemes created by the wallstreet investment bankers.
They are nothing but hustlers in brookbrothers suits who speak the language of the wealth and affluence. Just common thieves and confidence men who persuade folks to gamble on their investement schemes known as derivatives, hedge funds, credit default swaps and mortgagebacked securitys...all smokeand mirrors.
Sounds good but it is nothing but big time legalized gambling.
Hucksters and hustlers all of them.
December 13, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The purpose of giving money to AIG was primarily to prevent them from collapsing.
They have sold some assets - approximately $250mm. Not much, but there's no buyers out there. People are all still hoarding cash. Who's going to buy their American Life Insurance subsidiary in this crazy market?
People need some more patience. AIG isn't going to sell these assets in a few months. It's going to take longer than that.
December 13, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the Banks need to be patient with their credit and mortgage holders, too, eh Bill?
After all, they aren't getting a bailout.
December 13, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are being patient. Chase announced last month (after getting TARP funds) that it's going to work to restructure hundreds of thousands of mortgages to help people that are close to or already in foreclosure.
December 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The federal reserve has refused to disclose what it has done with $2tn in relief funds. That much money would keep a lot of shareholders happy.
December 13, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, surely they deserve some parties and trips to Tahiti, or at least Hawaii? If not that, some millions in bonuses, right?
I want to say right now that I cannot visualize a million of anything, and I certainly can't imagine anyone actually EARNING a million dollars in bonus money.
This absurdity has to be called out. No one should make more money in a year than they can spend in a lifetime! No one!
December 13, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd want to see the actual data re dividends. Some banks took federal money while alleging they didn't want it. Paulson told them to take it anyway. Don't forget that TARP money used as stock injection is supposed to give the Treasury senior preferred stock in the companies, which is relatively low risk and also pays interest of some sort to the Treasury.
But banks in bad trouble should have been required to substantially cut or defer dividends.
December 14, 2008 5:42 AM | Reply | Permalink