And, um, Sumerian legend on TPM. Wow. I know of Utnapishtim (I don't know how to do italics or diacritics in comment mode) from the Epic of Gilgamesh, and of course from the variation that became Noah's Ark; if you know of other Utnapishtim stories, please tell me where to find them.

And (shameless plug here) there is a discussion of Gilgamesh in my book, Shadow of the Antlered Bird (http://www.drolleriepress.com/bookshop/), but it deals more with Enkidu, and why having sex with a mortal woman means you can no longer talk to animals.

David

Do you think he has any of that left? Personal pride, I mean.

I also liked Kevin Spacey in _Dave._

Well said. Well reasoned. Well thought.

For me it was James Jeffords who caused this revalation in 2001, when he abandoned the GOP over the foreseeable consequences of Bush's tax cut. Of course, that didn't make him a moderate Republican--it made him an ex-Republican. But it occurred to me that if it was possible for someone who had been elected as a Republican to leave the party over something as simple as bankrupting the U.S. economy, then most likely there were others with similar views who hadn't left yet. In this sense, Colin Powell and David Brooks are more remarkable than James Jeffords and Mike Bloomberg, because they make (what I believe to be) the right choice without abandoning their affiliation--they continue to hold views with which I vehemently disagree, but they still found their way to the same choice I have made about whom to support this November.

And if you want to see the benefits of Goldspinner's approach, look at recent columns by Christopher Buckley, David Brooks, George F. Will, and others, giving Obama his proper respect. Heck, I even read a bit where Bill O'Reilly spoke respectfully of Obama--albeit emphasizing their disagreement at the same time. And why? Because Obama knows how to give people respect even when he disagrees with them.

Sure, I'd rather see the Dems in charge. Heck, I'd rather see the Dems and the GOP both lose out to the Green Party. But the approach that Goldspinner is advocating is the REASON Barack Obama will win big on November 4th.

This is something Biden addressed in the debate, when he told the story about being corrected by a colleague after he, as a freshman senator, said something disparaging about Jesse Helms (against whom I've said some disparaging things myself, once upon a time).

Wanting people to respect each other and focus on the issues over character attacks isn't a luxury of winning; it's a necessity of discourse. If we allow the discussion to descend into insults and ad hominem attacks, then we grant power to the people who thrive in that domain, raising the Bush/Rove types over the thoughtful conservatives--and more to the point, raising the John McCain of 2008 over the John McCain of 2000.