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Like Big Brother: Fox Propaganda is EVERYWHERE! (update)


Mr. TheraP told me first.  Mr. Deanie Mills noticed it too.  I've checked google and there's a growing awareness out there.  A blog at TPM.  And others.  All saying:

Fox News is ubiquitous!
•    Medical Waiting Rooms.
•    Auto-repair Waiting Rooms
•    Hotels
•    Motels
•    Restaurants
•    You name it!  And please do.... [airports!]
Do they subsidize TV's or cable to force viewing?

Is this a way to drive ratings up?

Inquiring minds want to know:  Something fishy is going on here!

If you don't like force-fed propaganda, contact your legislators.

Seems to me the FCC should be regulating this.

I can tell you one thing for sure:

  Last time I was in a medical office, I tried to turn the sound off.

  It was impossible to do that!

Force Feeding of propaganda seems inconsistent with a free society.


[I've cross-posted this at Oxdown/FDL - to make sure we get the word out!]

_____________________________

Update:

Add airports.   Media specifically do look for a "captive" audience.


203 Comments

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Not up here in the hinterlands. No our waiting rooms are CNN. But I live in a Democratic stronghold.

I hate to be vague (Like I am not always vague) but there was a blog on our site a while ago relating a cable/satelite conspiracy of sorts where Fox was getting the better end of things.

Publication is everything. And nothing happens by chance at Fox.

Something to think about. Maybe we need a 'grassroots' campaign. People should not sit still for this--as it were.

Complain to the person(s) responsible for providing the cable at the location!!!

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What about your hotels? Motels? Restaurants? Surely they want to catch the travelers! ;)

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I agree completely. In fact, writing Michael Copps at the FCC now is a very good idea. He is acting Director and his commitment to the public good is beyond question.

You can fire off a quick email here:

http://www.fcc.gov/commissioners/copps/mail.html

Or

File a comment here:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/Upload/

They have a matter on their docket called:

Cable and Satellite subscriber options, e.g. a la carte channels - Docket 04-207

Which is somewhat related,

or send a real mail here:

Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street SW
Washington, DC 20554

Thanks Thera, this is a very important topic. Big business should be held accountable for turning our 4th estate into a cesspool.

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Thank you, bwak. I've posted this over at Oxdown/FDL now. And in a comment I placed a quote from you, including the info for emails and snail mail.

We need to get the word out! More than anything is the annoyance of their propaganda blasting - with no way to eliminate it! (What a way to help the sick, eh?)

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Once I was sitting with my daughter in a hospital, waiting to have some test or other done, and Fox was on in the waiting area. It was so annoying. There was a (gasp) Mountain Lion (THEY ARE KILLERS YOU KNOW!!!) Near an elementary school (IT'S IN LOCKDOWN!!!), sniffing at garbage in a nearby home, in Los Angeles.

It apparently was News to Fox, that Mountain Lions (THEY ARE KILLERS YOU KNOW!!!!) Periodically do this, and generally are shot with a tranquilizer dart and then examined to determine their health, given Medical Attention if necessary, and then transported back into their own territory. I grew up there, and this Mountain Lion, (THEY ARE KILLERS YOU KNOW!!!) wasn't looking for trouble, just a bite to eat. The buzzing helicopters and news vans likely didn't make the professionals jobs any easier.

So my daughter and I started ridiculing the talking silicone hairdo and soon had the waiting room people laughing and smiling. Everyone agreed that it was ridiculous. Sometimes, ridicule is a good weapon.

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Further confirmation. Just got this email:

Oh yes, absolutely. When we were waiting in the doctor's office for Tony to get his cast off last fall, it was on there--in a part of town that went for Gore, Kerry and Obama. It was right when the John Edwards, Rielle whatsername scandal had broken, and it was unbearable. The thing is, I can't tune out sound, to it was impossible to ignore it and just read a magazine. There's a TV in the women's locker room at the gym I used to go to, and once it was on there. Fortunately, the remote was also available, so I changed it to PBS. When I joined the new gym, where I know the manager and which was reopening and glad for my membership, I specifically requested that it not appear on the TVs there. (It may be on one--I couldn't tell yesterday--but mostly it was CNN.)

The amazing thing is that when you tell people that Fox is utterly biased and propagates lies, they are surprised. They had no idea--and it's not because they are diehard Repugs. I think it just never occurred to them that the "news" might not be news.

You are the greatest, bwak!!!!

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Well, I have found that a combination of direct dealing with the FCC as well as pressure on the congress actually works.

For anyone who isn't familiar with what the FCC can and can't accomplish, the details of deregulation and loosened standards can be seen here:

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/mediatimeline.html

It details how the public fought the law and the public won. Don't let anyone discourage you.

=D

Fox News shouldn't be able to call itself 'news.' Period. They are a foreign owned conglomerate that practices propaganda for the benefit of corporations, not the public. Since this is the case, they should lose their license, or at least should not be allowed to be counted as a "news" station in a media bundle. Obviously, media bundling is an issue the FCC is grappling with right now, as is evidenced by their docket. Now is the time for public comment, and yes, it certainly makes a difference.


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Oh, and keep in mind that the NRA joined this fight, they may do so again, if it is framed correctly.

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I bow before you, bwak! Top TPM Bird!

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That is a very interesting link, bwak. Of all the options open to us, writing and communicating with the FCC is probably the best one. That is why when regulatory changes are made, comments are solicited by the agencies that are making the changes.

Thanks for pointing us to the FCC.

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Yez, in other word, the framework is there for direct public input, and they do respond to it, as that is how they were set up. Even before the internet, they solicited public opinion, (except when Powell was chairman) and the public let them know that was unacceptable.

Thanks seashell, your command on issues makes me look like a piker, but this is an "area of interest" to me. I am amazed by the amount of disinformation out there. Discouraging people to get involved is anti-democratic, and runs contrary to how our government was set up to function.

Kinda of makes one stop and go, "huh?"

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You have a VERY good command of the issues, Bwak, especially the one under discussion here, where the issue is not TV noise in public places, but the ownership and availability of channels to the public.

Clearly, one of the proper recourses for those concerned about the real issues under discussion is to make use of the FCC's comment framework. It is only the uninformed that think contacting the FCC is pointless. Thanks again for pointing it out!

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Pretty simple stuff. Unless one needlessly complicates it and engages in purposeful misinterpretation.

=D

Fox is the only news station in many parts of the country due to bundling. So, regulate bundling practices to give customers a choice. It should not be left up to just a few corporations whose self-interest is ruining the fourth estate.

I earlier said that the issues were related. They are. It may not be exactly what Thera blogged about, but it is a path to address it.

I find it's better to be constructive and helpful. Doom and gloom gets us nowhere.

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A doctor's office is not a public space.

A restaurant is not a public space.

A grocery store is not a public space.

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Only if you are speaking narrowly. We were speaking broadly. Obviously.

A broader meaning of public space or place includes also places where everybody can come if they pay, like a café, train, movie theater or brothel. A shop is an example of what is intermediate between the two meanings: everybody can enter and look around without obligation to buy, but activities unrelated to the purpose of the shop are not unlimitedly permitted. The halls and streets (including skyways) in a shopping center may be declared a public place and may be open when the shops are closed. Similarly for halls, railway platforms and waiting rooms of public transport; sometimes a travelling ticket is required. A public library is also more or less a public place. A rest stop or truck stop is a public space. For these semi-public spaces stricter rules may apply than outside, e.g. regarding dress code, trading, begging, advertising, propaganda, riding rollerskates, skateboards, a Segway, etc.
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If it's a private establishment, you are welcomed not to use it. End of story. But like Old Grouch who segued from doctor's offices to walking on streets, people here complain about one thing, and then move onto the next when they can't defend against a rebuttal.

The case as presented here is weak and you wouldn't be able to convince anyone except the closed group here who think the whole thing is "self evident".


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Apparently facts do not deter you. As cited above, the broader public spaces that are what we are discussing here, are actually subject to more regulation, not less.

If you have an establishment into which the public has access, you have certain responsibilities. Or don't have the establishment.

THAT is the salient fact. Also that Fox news is part of the cheap bundles, which is certainly an issue the FCC is inviting public comment to right this minute.

Now you can continue to play dumb, or just admit you are not informed on this issue and go learn about it. It's pretty obvious you are be contrary because you wished to hijack Thera's thread. If by chance you want to learn, the links I provided might be a good place to start.

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If you have an establishment into which the public has access, you have certain responsibilities. Or don't have the establishment.

This statement is patently not true for the topic at hand. But I don't expect much from your "logic" which usually amounts to being angry at anyone who you perceive has authority.

The public having access to a restaurant, hotel, etc. is not the same as a public place like a library.

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In this instance it is, and the limits to dispensing propaganda are if anything, more restrictive. You are simply, wrong. Look it up, I provided the wiki, but it's easy enough to google. You have provided nothing.

You do like to make assertions in a dismissive style, but the fact is, what I have said is true. If you don't think that private establishments that broadcast into public spaces isn't subject to regulation, then you haven't looked into the matter. Even a little.

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You can dispense whatever you like, short of threatening anyone, in a private establishment. Please show me a federal law stating otherwise?

Moreover, you would have to prove, in a court of law, that Fox news is a dispenser of propaganda.

Care to show me a well-respected lawyer who would sign of for that case?

When your rebuttal is "do your homework" you are to be dismissed as quickly as we all dismissed Condi Rice for stating the same.

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Seriously? Where have you been?

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2000Q4/lawsuit.html


Next?

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Seriously? You kidding???

Published in PR Watch, Fourth Quarter 2000, Volume 7, No. 4

Over 8 years ago!

a) you never showed me the federal statute that I requested

b) you have to prove the Fox News is a propaganda *machine* in your case in 2009. This lawsuit does nothing even close to that. It merely shows a single story was distorted. It's a nice start, but not even close to what you need to prove.

But I understand your confusion. You must have types "Fox Lawsuit Propaganda" and this came up.

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Oh, ally. Well, "the corporation," a link you like to throw around heavily, is from 2003 and actually featured that lawsuit.

Kind of a strange point, here. I understand that mindless dismissal is about all you got.

I'm afraid you've bored me, now. Ignorance just ain't all that interesting.

Have a nice evening.

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Yep, the perfect Internet technique: when you can answer a simple question, claim you were bored and move on. That way some may forget you couldn't answer the question.

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I did. The links are up. Lying about the news and slanting it are clearly not in the publics best interest, is it? Fox admitted that they slanted the news, in a court of law. I answered your questions. Try answering mine.

Google "FCC" Read their statement of responsibilities. Digest them, and when you get caught up, perhaps you will be able to discuss these issues in an intelligent and somewhat informed manner.

As I said, it's obvious from your first belligerent and rather far-fetched first comment that you were here to disrupt this thread. You have added nothing but belittlement and insulting condensation. No substance. Why are you here?

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Wow, just thought I'd add one more reply. I'm hoping that the thread ends up being one letter per line!

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CT - here is the reference point for my post:

I often dislike TV noise in public places as well.

Posted by clearthinker
May 10, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink


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Oh, and here is some more of what you said in that same post of yours that I was referencing about TV noise in public places, CT:

Here's my solution in places like an airport or a doctor's office: get yourself a little headset and play whatever music you like.

So who is the one complaining that people here complain about one thing, and then move onto the next when they can't defend against a rebuttal?

Please. Look in a mirror and go re-butt yourself.

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Nice job conflating two statements.

Let me be clear:

1) Background noise can be a nuisance when I am out in public.

2) When I am faced with noise in a collective area, headsets are valuable.

I hope that clears things up.

Doctor's offices, restaurants, hotels, etc. are private places of business. Therein lies the difference. Okay? Okay.

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Private companies that have common or public spaces are subject to government regulation.

You wouldn't want to eat in a restaurant not subject to regulation, anymore than attend a doctors office and get inundated with propaganda. Both of these scenarios have long established government agencies that regulate what they can and can't do. Otherwise, one wouldn't need a license.

Okay?

Okay.

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Here is the page for a specific complaint:

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

I tried the others. But this is specific.

I've complained to them in the past and they've been very helpful in resolving problems. Both going after an annoying telephone solicitation and getting charges I never authorized reversed from my phone bill.

Thanks for the advice, bwak, Queen of Birds!

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To make up for the dreary topic on a nice holiday, for lovely music, go here:

http://revjph.blogspot.com/2009/05/midnight-jukebox_09.html

A wonderful selection!

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I'm talking about the music below the photo.

(haven't tried the music to the right - might be ok too)

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Why does this phenomenon bring A Clockwork Orange to mind?

Here in the liberal DC area, it is usually C-SPAN droning in the background. But if I go into a retail establishment (e.g., carry out, dry cleaner) and Fox is blasting, I usually leave, but not before telling the person at the counter that I find it insulting to be exposed to media porn against my will.

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You nailed it!

media porn!
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Wow. I thought it was a joke--but you can actually order these???

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Just think, we can sneak around and do good! ;)

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That's bloody brilliant!

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I WANT one!!!


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I just bought one from Amazon. I'll let everyone know how it works.

Creating a Fox Free Atlanta, one TV set at a time!

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Amen! :-)

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Now we just need a closet bgone

(trucknutz!)

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Let's make that: clutter b-gone! ;)

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You know TheraP and Bwak, I think my definition of clutter might be changing, even as we speak.

CluTter in locked closets might not be a bad thing, ya think?

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Ahhh, thank you for that, TheraP. Very enlightening in clearing a path through the clutter.

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Yes, and if we ever need it, I have the very link were tt was attacked for having two ID's - by the very one who later admitted same. Oops!

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No "oops" TheraP. As we have discussed many times on this board, the policy of having a non-political cartoon character is ambiguous.

It may be too subtle for you, but tt's characters were not in that mold.

Pirate Peet was everyone's friend and everyone liked him.

But as usual, you try to address these things in a passive aggressive manner.

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I guess we need the full monty here. Check the link, folks, and look above it to see the threadof what happened. You be the judge:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/01/simple-justice---not-a-witch-h.php#comment-3347085

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Your reactions, TheraP, are really entertaining. Would you care to get back on to the topic of YOUR blog, or would you care to discuss stuff that I've already discussed that's at best tangential?

You are the only poster I know who spams her own blog!

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I have to go with CT on this one. There is nothing but aggressive disregard for dissenting opinions on that link. If the title needs to disavow something, the what follows is almost always that entirely. The comment thread on that particular blog does nothing to change that assumption for me.

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I read the whole site. What a hoot. I rarely go places where there are TVs on except where I live now (my parents) but I will keep this in mind when I get to the point of taking them more places and waiting. I think that is a really great invention.

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How long before it is illegal to turn off a TV? Actually, it probably already is, since it belongs to the establishment. (The actual, not metaphorical one.)

Perhaps a lawsuit is in order. TV-Begone could provoke a test case.

I hate TV in the grocery or hospital; it's a blathering idiot in the corner, unresponsive to the real world, clearly insane. But it doesn't end there, we now have active billboards lighting up the highway, and I expect ads on clouds any day. Now that companies get free advertising on shoes and shirts (don't just do it), we have to get tattoos to get paid for the service we provide.

Adding insult to injury is the utter lack of awareness of aspect ratio, so we are tortured by talking heads that are squashed, stretched to outlandish bloat by the unavoidable widescreen flat panels. It's enough to make one stay home and not shop, oh wait, that's already happening.

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HOW DARE YOU CALL THE 'MENTALIST' BLATHER!!

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They should change the name of that to to smug. Is he mostly plays mind games and appears smart because he leaves everyone else out of his ploys.

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I always cite Mentalist as an example because I like the show, I watch the show, and yet...something nags at me. I mean its a stupid show.

Gregor you got me laughing before noon. hahhahahaha

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I/have/watched/it/once.//He/impresses/himself/a/lot.

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TVBgone has been around for years.

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Even if you invented it, and stand to gain, I'm gonna get me one of those....

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Hi TheraP,

I am doing some research on all of this. Did you notice that today in 'lockstep' Newt, John McCain, and Emporer Cheney were on the talk shows...transmitting 'their' message... they are trying to control perception. They have been doing it for some time and become quite masterful at it.

One things I am reading about is mind control. If you google Karl Rove and mind control you'll be suprised what you find. The reference has been constantly... as Dickday pointed out to me yesterday... since Nixon. I even found a website that claims to have a device that will block out Fox News on your cable.

I am curious if you polled all of the people who willingly or less willingly watch Fox News whether they would agree that it is a 'christian' news station.

Propaganda and 'controlling perception' are apparently what the rebuplicans have used to rule in our country. They try not to 'budge' on message so that people hear it over and over again. People don't realize what is happening to them.

I am also curious to the degree that people trust what they hear based on 'faith' or a perception that their religious views are shared... when they are actually being exploited for that.

There is so much here that I can't write a blog until I do more research but there's no doubt in my mind that Dick Cheney is out their like Blagojevich trying to 'inform' public perception to lessen as much as possible public support for the investigation or prosecution on torture.

Today Cheney said that the president 'authorized' these techniques... sounded a bit like Condi's argument... Somehow I just don't believe that Mr. Dick was 'just following orders' and I know that does not excuse him from breaking the law and not upholding our laws as vice president.

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Sorry, I know I went on a tangent here because I am reading all of this stuff about the propaganda and mind control, Karl Rove, etc. trying to understand why it has worked for them. Fox News is definitely one of their biggest tools.

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Tangents very connected to this, I think!

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I'm not sure how people would describe Fox, but christian would have been the last I would have expected.

I look forward to your blog on propaganda. You've done good work here!

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There was a TV Clip of Bush Air America used to play where Bush/admitted/he/had/to/repeat/the/propaganda/for/it/to/take/effect.///My/space/bar/is/stuck,but/this/propaganda/issue/is/critical.//It's/Soviet-style/government.//Probably/what/Bush/saw/in/Putin's/soul.

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I often dislike TV noise in public places as well.

Nevertheless, the solutions here are not in line with the usual "live and let live" philosophy that liberals like to espouse. Reading this post and it's comments reminds me of what you might find on Red State if they found a television tuned to MSNBC.

Here's my solution in places like an airport or a doctor's office: get yourself a little headset and play whatever music you like. If you don't want music, there are plenty of white noise, or rainfall, CD's out there.

Fox is not the only station I've seen on. CNN and "women's programming" (e.g. Oprah, The View) and a local news station are also common. In many doctor's offices, it's a tape loop of health tips. If you think about it, the situation is simply the next step beyond Musak.

Is the issue the TV, or Fox?

Using the gadget described is simply passive aggressive and a sign that one is too cowardly to do something about the situation for real. Here's a tip: most places will gladly lower the volume even if they don't want to turn the television off. I know, I've asked. It's easy. You don't need a revolution to do it. And you don't need to be a sneak. And if you were really "doing good", you certainly wouldn't have to be stealth about it.

How often do you see no one watching the television? If anyone is watching, does that give you a right to turn it off? (After all, they didn't put the television there, the establishment did.)

Writing to the FCC is pointless and it's hard to imagine them getting involved at all. It's the establishment that controls the dial.

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Live and let live is only worth pursuing if it's mutual. Otherwise, it's merely ceding control to the overly aggressive.

It's not about anything other than exerting a bit of control over some of the ambient noise in our environment. Much of it we can't do anything about. TV noise, especially including Faux News propaganda, sometimes we can. And why should we not? Would you allow someone to come into your living room and harangue you endlessly for no good reason? Would you put up with it from an actual living person in a public space? (I'm guessing not, or you truly are a wimp.) If not, then why put up with it from an electronic annoyance?

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Besides, the solution suggested assumes everyone both can afford the headphones and has them handy all the time.

I really like your answer better than my hedge, however.

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Can't afford a head set, but you can afford a TV jammer? You are on thin ice, TheraP.

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Nonsense!

I'm sure you realize I'm referring to the population at large. The jammers cost $20 or less. Noise canceling headphones are more. For dd those might mean giving up eating for a day or more.

Besides, OG's refutation overrides mine in terms of its importance.

I'm not arguing with you over this any further.

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Who said anything about noise cancellation? My comment was having headsets for personal music.

Your argument is beyond ridiculous. Someone should spend to get a jammer, but can't afford a headset? They, too, are under $20. Here's an MP3 player and all for $22. If someone can afford one gadget they can afford the other. If you are poor, you can't afford either one.

And your argument about "too poor to afford the solution" is a red herring and a technique you often use. It's a nice way to try to paint anyone with a counter viewpoint to look like Simon Legree. It also doesn't add to the discussion.

Your response also implies you see nothing wrong with dictatorially shutting off televisions that you decide you don't like. Oh, yes, you are just the sort of person I'd want making those decisions.

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Headphones are a bad idea in many instances. They isolate us from our surroundings and make things like walking in urban areas, where traffic is a problem, potentially dangerous. I prefer being aware of my surroundings rather than trusting to the brakes - and skills - of some unknown driver.

Just to point out one example.

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Wow, Grouch: how did we get from doctor's offices to walking in the street?

Your example is a non sequitor at best. I guess you've run out of substantive arguments.

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Shut up and give me your lunch money, punk. And if you don't like it, leave, like you advocate others doing.

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You've confused so many issues, Grouch.

1) You aren't in my living room, you are in a public space

2) If a private establishment allows someone to speak in a corner, that's their right. If you don't like it, leave.

Right now, I can hear my neighbor's kid practicing piano -- it's pretty hard to listen to. Maybe I should go over and say "knock it off"?

You talk about "electronic annoyance" but then switch into "turn off Fox news". My point is that these are two separate issues. In fact, this is a bait-and-switch ploy worthy of Fox News itself: try to control what the public does or doesn't hear on the basis of a complete of electronic annoyance.

Passive aggressive. Beautiful. Or as TheraP would say "a hedge".

So, you tell me: which issue are we really discussing?

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I get it - your handle is ironic!

You are incapable of grasping even the simple truth that your own right to be left in peace is what's at stake here.

If I come up to you in a public place, where you are enjoying your surroundings, and I begin haranguing you, you're going to leave? You're not going to stick up for yourself? And if I keep following you, you'll keep moving? Brilliant!

You're a bully's dream. An endless, willing victim, incapable of even realizing that standing up for yourself is a good idea.

You make me embarrassed to belong on the same end of the "political" spectrum. Really.

Oh, and to clarify: The issue we are now discussing is how much of a chickenshite you are, being unable to summon the courage to stick up for your own right to be left in peace.

Maybe you're fine with that sort of wimpiness. I am not. Nor would I ever encourage it in anyone else. I may (only) at first turn the other cheek, but believe me, the third one's going to be mine, and it's a beast.

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Your emotional reaction in trying to trash me, prevented you from actually bothering to read what I wrote. I see no point in replying until you do.

Same for your comment below.

I leave it to others to judge you on your belligerent response.

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I read what you wrote. You're a punk antagonist, and you're not especially good at it. If you don't like that, leave.

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The most perfect humor and irony is generally quite unconscious. [Samuel Butler]

:-)

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Bravo, Old Grouch. Well said.

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Liberals have been playing clean and nice since Gene McCarthy's office in the Watergate got busted into. Look where it has gotten us and the world.
A little electronic intervention is fair. It's my space too. If you want to go annoy some receptionist that's OK too. Then again if the chanel just flips they probably won't notice for three days. And if it just mysteriously keeps turning off they will assume it is broken and leave it off.

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Not very fair to put the receptionist in the middle here either. I like your theory of "free space".

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Again, are we talking about having a TV in a place or what's on the TV?

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A little electronic intervention is fair.

Either you believe in fair play or not. If you can't promote your view without resorting to dirty tricks, that should tell you that your view is not very convincing. Whatever rules you chose to play by it fine with me as long as you are consistent.

But remember that the other side will use your behavior as an excuse for theirs as well. Then we have all kinds of TPMers whining about the big bad GOP.

And please remember your quote when I jam your cell phone because I'm tired of listening to you talk on it.

As with most things, people don't really think through the consequences of their opinions.

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I believe in my right to be left alone. You seemingly do not, so how dare you talk of jamming someone's cell phone? Wouldn't you be more consistent with your own weak-kneed worldview if you simply moved on down the block?

Or does consistency only matter to you when it's someone else being consistent?

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Remember, CT posts as a self-described "character" - and also admitted to posting as another "character":

some of you may not have liked this character. I have had one other character on this board

See here (bottom of the quote):

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/01/can-americans-be-happy-with-le.php#comment-3358768

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Yes, TheraP, when you can't attack the message, attack the messenger. You never respond in substance to my comments to you, which leads me to conclude that you believe your position is not defensible when examined.

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You have a message?

Other than misdirection, I mean...

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He might claim to be a "character" but shows a clear lack of same.

He reminds me of the sort of punk who pesters others until someone takes a richly-deserved swing at him, then runs crying to his mother.

Consider me underwhelmed by this self-styled "clear thinker". What a pathetic, deluded loser.

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See, Thera, here I'm adopting the "character" of someone rather bellicose, someone who pushes CT a few times, gets in his grille if you will, to see if he does as he advocates and moves along rather than resisting. And he'll no doubt whine and whine like a crabby four-year-old over it.

So now we'll test this "character" of his...

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But If you're "adopting a character," which I doubt, it's with the very same message as always:

For What Noble Cause?

I salute you, kind sir!

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And he'll no doubt whine and whine like a crabby four-year-old over it.

That's the sum and substance of it, OG. Nicely put.

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Cosign!

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For once, I have to agree with CT on this. The doctor's office is not public space, or your space, it's the doctor's space - the same as your living room is your space. Turning off the TV in the doctor's office is exactly, specificially and indistinguishably (I think that's a word) the same as if I came into your living room and turned off Olberman (actually, I'd sit down and watch because I cheaped out a few months ago and cancelled my basic cable package, but I still miss Keith, but I'm making a point).

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So you serve the public in your living room? Charge them for goods or services? No?

Two different things entirely. A private residence is far different from a doctors office, one requires business and professional licenses to operate, (both state and federal,) the other is the place you sleep.

In this case a doctors office is considered a public space under the broad definition of public space.

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Only one little teeny tiny inconsequential comment, aheam.

It's MS Deanie Mills. ;-D

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You told me it was your husband who told you! So that's why I called it Mr. ;)

I know you're a woman! :)

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She's a lady.

=D

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Lady Deanie. And Sir Mr. :)

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I think the primary issue is that faux news claims to be fair and balanced when it is anything but. Many people think it is actual news, when in reality it is entertainment. The fact that in some places faux news is available when msnbc is not, or you have to pay extra to get msnbc is galling. Yes, you can sometimes avoid listening which is certai my an option for informed listeners, but lots of people are not informed and they are being duped into thinking they are watching/listening to news.

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Shall we call it Fox Spews?

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Fox Spews! I love it!

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Interesting comment. While I agree that the most dangerous thing is an uninformed person thinking that he is informed, that criterion can be applied to many of the people here at TPM on critical issues of science, technology, and natural resources.

Now, if you were to think this comment arrogant, that's okay, but that's how you look to the people who like to listen to Fox News.

So just as you have an issue with me because of how I present facts, the people you are trying to reach have an issue with you.

By the way, MSNBC is also entertainment ("The worse person in the world?", "Puppet theater"?). In fact, what Fox has done is destroyed the boundary between news and commentary. I suggest you watch the documentary, THE CORPORATION, and see how this not only came about but why other stations raced to get to the bottom with them.

And, no, bloggers as we know them today won't save us. They are serving micro-demographics and also can be woefully wrong (remember the DailyKos hysteria over Palin's kid)? The only way for bloggers to gain respectability is to have a editorial oversight, etc... which turns them into the MSM on the Internet. We need professional journalists.

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CT, believe it or not, I'm glad to have you commenting once again...As much as your style can drive me up a wall, I think a lot of what you say has merit. I'm going to make getting past your demeanor and trying to focus on your points a priority. :-)

I watched your documentary...no new information, but it was presented in an interesting fashion.

Here's the problem as I see it. Somehow in America, and perhaps in the world, we have lost sight of what "news" is...Maybe I'm just romanticizing the "good old days," but it seems like there used to be a thing called "journalistic integrity." Things got "reported." We weren't told how to feel about it. Or maybe it has always been screwed up and I just wasn't paying attention. That is certainly a possibility.

Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoy listening to the pundits. I enjoy the banter and segments like "worst person" make me laugh. But that segment is not portrayed as "news." Billo, on the other hand, is very vocal about his desire to "look out for the folks." To hear him tell it, he has the skinny on everything, and will clear through all the b.s. and give it to you straight. What a bunch of hogwash!

When I was a Fox news fan, I thought I was getting news. It wasn't until I discovered Obama, and I knew that the things they were saying about him weren't true, that I realized how far Fox had gone in slanting the "news." So much, in fact, that it was no longer news, but merely their "spin" on the news..."NO SPIN ZONE" my booty! Fair and Balanced? Not even close.

My issue now is the way FAUX (which says it all, as far as I'm concerned) seems somehow to have been embedded in our lives, and how they are allowed to basically LIE, under the guise of fair and balanced reporting.

Synchronicity has parents who thought it was straight shooting news, and she set them straight. But two people at a time is going to take forever...If the FCC won't take action on its own, seems like we ought to help them.

At the very LEAST, if Faux is offered as basic cable, CNN and MSNBC should be, as well. It is my opinion that no one of the three should be on the airwaves anywhere without the others. And in order to be able to call yourselves fair and balanced, you should have to be.

Just my opinion. Not a fact.

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Yes, the bundling is at issue right now. The reason it is on in so many places, is simply because it is included in more bundles. People want to be able to choose their own cable channels in these bundles, and it is an issue the FCC is working on now.

I would think that if the people prevail, Fox won't be on on so many public spaces, nor will their ratings be kept artificially higher than they probably are.

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God, if that passes, I might get cable, just to cut out Fox!

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First: Nearly everything you see on the cable networks is commentary, not news. This goes for *all* of them. The reason is simple: they have 24 hours to fill and they have to show a profit.

I suggest you rent GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK to discover a little bit about what news used to be like -- and why it changed. (True, it is fictionalized, but the general points are made clearly.)

So, for starters, it's just not Fox, it's CNN, and MSNBC... and CNBC, etc.

Second: the 24/7 news cycle promoted by all the cable networks has changed the way news is even delivered. This is the reason for the major mistakes made by places like the NY Times, CBS, NBC, etc. that used to be stalwarts of solid journalism.

Most of what you see today is spun PR -- and that includes *everything*. This is the reason you hear talk about keeping the President "on message". This started for real under the Reagan administration, but *all* administrations have used this model since.

Third: There's no conspiracy for Fox News. Cable companies want to provide as much content as possible. It's probably that Fox News is literally giving away their content. Do you know why Rush Limbaugh is on so many stations? Because the show is given away for free, but Rush gets to keep the advertising dollars. So if I have a small radio station, I can problem upwards of 20 hours a week with a real name and build the rest of my programming day around it. There's no conspiracy at all, but it would be easy to concoct one in your mind if one so chose.

tpmgary makes excellent points above, but no one really addressed them (even though there are responses to his comment). If a doctor's office has Fox on, it's not the FCC's problem. Moreover, one's complaint can't be you don't like Fox News -- as I have stated above, I've seen all kinds of programming on public televisions.

The central issue for this blog still remains open: are we concerned about electronic noise here, or by Fox News' being on *some* (not all) televisions?

If you want a perspective on how this thread looks, check out http://www.redstate.com/ and see what happens when a group of like minded people can convince themselves of. As an example in this mode, you may remember that when I said that the GOP was hardly a dead party, Aunt Sam immediately came back with "Yeah, but we won and you lost!" Really? How does she know that?

Isn't that exactly the type of narrow and misled thinking that people here are complaining about when it comes from the right?

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Maybe you could respond to the points I made?

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Punk antagonists such as CT don't do that. They'd prefer to misdirect and generally make noise.

I think we've found an attention whore...

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An attention whore? Grouch, you keep talking about me with no end in sight! LOL!

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Looks like you may win the prize of the day, OG!

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You wrote:

Somehow in America, and perhaps in the world, we have lost sight of what "news" is... At the very LEAST, if Faux is offered as basic cable, CNN and MSNBC should be, as well. It is my opinion that no one of the three should be on the airwaves anywhere without the others.

I responded very directly to both of your main points

a) addressed the issue of where news went in American

b) explained issues involving how programming gets distributed.

But while we are at it, perhaps you could read with fresh eyes some of the responses of your friends. It's revealing. If you choose to see it with fresh eyes.

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I am not responsible for what anyone else writes. You are a big boy, perfectly capable of defending yourself. You once told me that you have a mother and don't need me to try and be yours. So, I'm honoring your wishes...you can fight your own battles.

As far as "our" conversation goes, I don't know who makes the rules, but it certainly seems like there should be some, if there aren't. Making sure that everyone has access to more than one point of view where the "news" is concerned should not be too hard to do. I would not want ANY channel to be the only one available anywhere.
There is just too much riding on it.

My bottom line...people need to be made aware that Faux News is not news, and it is not fair and balanced. Should they choose to still watch and use it as their main source of what they think is news, have at it. But they should have a choice, and they shouldn't have to pay extra to get it.

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Stilli,

Your condescension is amazing. You needn't talk down to me and refer to me as a "big boy". No one asked you to fight my battles. I merely wanted you to note the unprofessional, immature way some of your friends post. That you missed my point is not surprising. After all, your previous post to me asked me to address your issues when I already had.

Part of the problem is that you were "ignorant" about Fox News. Guess what? How do you know you are on the path of light now? Is it because you are getting reassurances from your friends?

As far as choices, we've gone over this one. Your choice is to turn it off. Same as pamphlets left in your mailbox. What you don't like, you toss. Were NBC to give away it's cable news, I'm sure you would have that on your dial as well. Why not write to your cable company and ask about pricing structures? Why not find out something definite?

Here's a real plan: find out what your cable company offers. If it's not to your liking, you can then fax (always) fax a letter of complete to your congressional officials and raise the issue with them.

Heck, you live in Sacramento... why not drive to the capital and raise something with your state officials as well?

And do please go to Red State at some point. Read the posts there and reflect on how similar they look to the posts here.

That might tell you something.

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According to Merriam Webster, entertainment is " amusement or diversion provided especially by performers ". My own personal definition includes the word "voluntarily" somewhere in it.

Some people are entertained by Fox News. Some people are entertained listening to Barry Manilow nonstop.

I'm not.

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If they were merely being entertained, that would be one thing...but many of them think they are getting the news...fair and balanced. THAT is not right, and should not, IMHO, be permitted. I AM entertained by Barry Manilow, but I when I'm listening to him, I don't think he's giving me the news.

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Here's what worked for one email friend:

I was in my barber's chair yesterday and asked him to get Fox News off his big HD tv screen, which he did with alacrity. He asked what I would prefer and I said MSNBC. He changed it and after my cut said, "That's a good channel. I'll have to watch it."

People are ignorant.

And the greatest force of nature is inertia.

Give it a shove!

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When I mentioned this exact response, you didn't acknowledge it.

Then you said you didn't want to get the receptionist involved.

Now you are endorsing the "speak up" response.

Which is it, TheraP?

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yes,

sadly, many people don't realize options are available. AND sadly many people do not recognize, do not understand that Fox is not NEWS and it is NOT Fair and Balanced.

My mom was an example and I know she felt a bit embarassed when I talked to her about it but the information also set her free, allowed the part of her that doubted information more freedom to question and pulled the plug on the ability of Fox News to 'yank her chain' i.e. manipulate her.

For those who are aware they definitely have a choice to not listen, ask people to change the station, wear headphones, sing loudly, etc.

But I do have real concern for the unaware people who would make different choices if they understood what was really going on.

The excessive exposure used/available to Fox News is something that expanded during the Bush years when rules were bent to allow Murdoch to own more media avenues. So we definitely have some cause to expose media and in this case particularly Fox News for what it is. It is empowering to those who are less aware.

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It was your blog, as I recall, that set the ball rolling here. Since then there have been others complaining on the web. It's touching a chord!

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Has the initial question-- whether or not FOX has some unfair practices advantage with regard to FCC rules or Nielsen or media regulation-- been answered?

I can't just write the FCC saying I think it's unfair for hotels and doctors' waiting rooms and other public places to be default-tuned to FOX.

Especially if I think they should be tuned to some particular other station with a different political bend.

How do you prove in a court of law that Fox news isn't really fair and balanced? (I know this is going to sound strange, but aside from the fact that it is self-evident?)

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That is what the FCC is for. They make their determination based on legislated criteria, and if Congress doesn't like it, they change the law. Then the FCC uses the new criteria, but the criteria is there. It's a question of whether what they do can be considered actual news or not.

You might just question whether or not they meet the definitions of serving the public good and information that the title "news station" implies. Then question why they are included as a news station if they fail that definition, and the apparent uneven cable bundling practices. It is an issue on their docket right now (links above) and they are looking for public commentary.

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I complained on the basis of unfair advertising. That they are exposing captive audiences to propaganda. And I asked if they are providing the TVs or the cable service and if the TVs are set to Fox automatically. I explained you can't turn them off or turn down the volume.

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Well stated, tpmgary. You will also note that many posters here are arguing two different points:

a) electronic noise

b) Fox News

Normally, I would assume this is a result from some poster who didn't get the point of the original blog, but in this case TheraP is also discussing both points. That's one reason it's difficult to have a specific discussion -- and you'll note that no one has yet really answered my question about what the central topic is.

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I was contacted by someone from this site

when I posted my blog about rebranding Fox

check it out!

FoxNewsBoycott.com


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Interesting. Thanks


=D

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I guess I was part of a boycott, but never knew it. We don't have cable. But our antenna pulls in Fox. Though, as I say, we never, ever watch it. But it's not the full-time news channel. Or I don't think it is.

But I'll check out your link. Thanks for posting it!

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Wow! You can get FOX even people without cable may be exposed...

I don't have cable or dish either...just internet but I am looking into changing my internet service provider as comcast is a sponsor of FOX News.

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If/it/is/on/the/public/airwaves/there/are/different/rules.//We/may/have/found/an/Achille's/heel/even/if/only/in/one/market.//FOX/has/a/less/regulated/broadast/because/it/is/cable/and/NOT/on/the/public/airwaves/though/it/seems/it/is.

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Perhaps the most insidious propaganda ploy Fox has made is to corner the market on so much sports broadcasting. This gives them incessant access to what they see as their core audience- working people who relax and socialize in bars to watch sports after work . Even if it's not a news show, that banner at the bottom continuously displays their talking points. It's borderline subliminal indoctrination, except that it's right out there to see. I assumed that this was widely observed by progressives, but perhaps not. It scares the hell out of me.

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Wow,

I knew that Fox comes with most basic cable while it rarely includes CNN and usually does not include MSNBC... which clearly makes them appear to be 'the' mainstream' 'news source'. And I know that Murdoch owns DTV and apparently at least for some people that I have confirmed with, you have to pay more to get channels like MSNBC and CNN but Fox comes with basic.

Not being a sports fan this aspect had never occurred to me. Yuck!

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Use this very link to complain about deceptive advertising:

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

That's what it sounds like you're getting at. That people tune into sports and are treated to propaganda!

Thanks for that info. It's horrifying!

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It's called free enterprise. Fox pays a lot of money for the broadcast rights. NBC cross promotes all the time. Or did you miss all the appearance of Jim Cramer on the Today Show when CNBC was in trouble.

Horrifying? Please. It's called a media conglomerate.

Here's what's amusing about this thread:

No one here is upset that corporations control your access to information. They are upset about *which* corporation is controlling it. Kind of ruins the purity of the argument, doesn't it?

Proof? Not one person has mentioned that CBS/NBC/ABC are talking about not carrying Obama next time in primetime because they have lost revenue on his 3 previous press conferences. Why not write the FCC about that issue?

Of course, be prepared when a president who wasn't your choice is on television all the time as well.

Perhaps the best joke of all is that people here think that they are getting more news from MSNBC or CNN. I know, you don't believe me. But some of you wouldn't have believed me 8 years ago if I told you the same thing about Fox when you watched it, right?

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Broadcast rights come with responsibilities.

Are you aware of what those are?

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Yes, and Fox satisfies those rights. As does MSNBC.

The real question are YOU aware what they are?

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Yes, and I am not sure that Fox does. You were maybe an FCC commissioner recently? if not, your surety is rather inappropriate. Much has changed recently.

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If your arguments are similar of those that produced your pulling up the case you cite above -- that is over 8 years old -- I'm pretty sure your logic needs to be carefully gone over.

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Yes, I gave you the first one. I'm not going to do all the heavy lifting here. I figured you'd appreciate that suit as those two reporters were in "the Corporation."

How old id that, BTW?

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Fox is NEVER on in my house and I leave any business or anywhere else it is on. No exceptions. This makes people nervous and uncomfortable. It also makes them think a little. Which is more than what they were doing watching FOX.

As for the ubiquitous part. Some serious money is being spent trying to revive the republican brand. Madison Avenue has to be rolling in dough from the marketing dollars being poured into this. They are very good at what they do and know that a lot of people won't even see the scam coming. The corporate media behemoths are in their corner as well. Just like with Wall Street their target is our pocketbooks. Everything else is just misidrection.

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You are to be commended for your stand!

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Good for you tpc. It's never on in my house either. If I want to see what everyone's talking about, I have to go to TPMtv or YouTube.

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Just in case you missed this:

Fox News Caught Repeatedly Cropping Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/05/fox-news-assailed-for-vid_n_196719.html

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And you'll note that even the blogger commented that the 3rd example was a bit reaching. I follow Media Matters a lot but am uncomfortable when such an obvious reach is part of their "evidence".

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Great catch! Thanks! :)

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If I had realized that the simple mention, and mocking, of Fox News, could be so entertaining, I would have blogged on this long ago. But live and learn...

This whole thread reminds me of the "Great Snowball Fight" of childhood memory! What a great run we're having. As far as I can tell one lone serial, multiple ID poster is standing up for Fox, while the rest of us are having the time of our lives. Likely there's another "character" there that insults people who love Fox (on other threads in other places)! Then again, we'll never know. The problem with multiple identities is: How many are there?

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TheraP,

Apparently you've not comprehended most of what I wrote if you think it's a defense of Fox and yet your techniques of "shoot the messenge" are those that Rupert Murdoch would be proud of.

Many times you've enjoyed other posters (e.g. Ripper and Genghis) who has similar "fun" characters. You felt no need to bring this up when debating them. That weakens the "high and mighty" position you aspire to in your posts. You simply aren't consistent in your outrage. Your ethics are merely situational.

But you can keep attacking the messenger if that's the best you can do.

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Oh, TheraP has comprehended everything you've written as has everyone else reading this thread, CT. The problem for you is that you are not commenting to a bunch of dunderheads that are ever so grateful for your opinion and agree with your every pronouncement because they don't have the knowledge not to.

Even outside the blogosphere, TPMCafe is known for its smart and wonky readership. When you come in and disagree with everyone here and arrogantly try to set us straight, well, you can see the result for yourself. From what I can tell, you would have problems passing a freshman political science course, but that is just my opinion. Others may differ. But what I can guarantee you is that you are not the brightest and smartest person here.

And that's a fact that I'll bet we call all agree on.

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Um, the TPMCafe blogs that are discussed are on the left side of the page, not the general readership here.

But it's nice you can speak for TheraP. Mind reading is a rare skill.

May I suggest you stick to your other post where you were so quick to try to berate me that you kept providing material that proved my point?

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Sigh. Who said anything about what blogs are discussed? I only noted the quality of the readership, not the blogs.

Try to keep up, CT.

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You can haz cheezburger. One per comment here!

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I'z buzy counting my cheezburgers! I'll have mine with Dijon, pleeze! Thank You!

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"You/can/see/the/result/for/yourself"?//NOT!!!

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American thought and American politics will be largely at the mercy of those who operate these stations, for publicity is the most powerful weapon that can be wielded in a republic. And when such a weapon is placed in the hands of one person, or a single selfish group is permitted to either tacitly or otherwise acquire ownership or dominate these broadcasting stations throughout the country, then woe be to those who dare to differ with them. It will be impossible to compete with them in reaching the ears of the American people. — Rep. Luther Johnson (D.-Texas), in the debate that preceded the Radio Act of 1927 (KPFA, 1/16/03)

Some months ago while looking at what the Fairness Doctrine was, an issue related to yours, TheraP, I bookmarked this 2005 article by Steve Rendall.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0212-03.htm
A good historical perspective covering both radio and television.

The Fairness Doctrine was abolished in 1987 by the FCC. Twice Congress has sought to bring it back in one form or another. Twice it was vetoed, first by Reagan, then by GHW Bush.

This next bit is some quick updating I just did...

Michael Copps, the acting Chairman of the FCC, has said he does not support resurrecting the Fairness Doctrine, preferring to concentrate on diversity in broadcasting by promoting more stations be owned and operated by minorities and women. President Obama has also stated that he has no intention of reimposing the doctrine. That's not good enough for Republicans, though. They want legislation that will "guarantee the doctrine would not be imposed"

In the current Congress, some members have introduced the Broadcaster Freedom Act of 2009 (S. 34), to block reinstatement of the Doctrine.
.

Some of the problem with all of hoo haa over Fox Noise, is that the Fox News cable channel is a separate entity from Fox, the broadcast channel, although both are umbrellaed under the same corp. Same goes for MSNBC and NBC and others. Cable channels are regulated differently from broadcast channels. That's why we can watch the Playboy channel on cable or satellite all day long if we pay for it, but Janet Jackson can't show her ta-ta at the Superbowl (or where ever). The parent broadcast company had to pay a fine for that oops.

I do understand though, the point being made that Fox News is misidentifying itself as 'news' when it is in fact entertainment. Where are the journalistic credentials of the 'news' anchors.....oh, wait, they're NOT called news anchors, are they? They're called 'hosts'.

And, I do understand the concern over being inundated by the blather in public spaces. I have yet to run across a waiting room television that could not have the channel changed, though.

Apologies for the length.

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Fox News is definitely not labeled as "entertainment" except by a few here. It's a legitimate news organization, but the real issue is that commentary and news have been mixed together. However, as I stated before, this is now endemic on *all* cable news stations. Remember, Olberman was a sports caster. What journalistic credentials are there? That's the problem with much of the discussion here (and tpmgary brought up): you can construct a mirror image argument against (say) MSNBC that is just as correct. That means that the argument against Fox News presented here isn't based on propaganda, but rather a form of reporting that a particular person doesn't like.

However, flowerchild, you have delineated some of the other issues about cable v broadcast quite well.

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No./Actually/there/is/no/mirror/as/pervasive/as/FOX.

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Broadcast and Cable operate under mostly the same guidelines. Exceptions are made for cable due to the variety of it's channel spectrum, which is larger than broadcasts, but the idea that the regulations for either are much different changed in 1984. Cable must carry broadcast now.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/csgen.html

Worth the read.

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If, of course one is more interested in fact vs. arrogant assertion and bluster. I know that I prefer facts.

=D

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Also.

Buttsecks!!!

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Great link, Bwak. Migwetch.

Yep, a couple three years back when we were still subscribing to satellite (Dish, not DTV) we got the broadcast channels added to the basic package because we are located so far from civilization, regular tv reception is laughable. I recall when we first subscribed...1998, I think it was...broadcast channels were NOT available, then we could get the 3 major affiliates piped in from New York City & LA only, then local affiliates became available if you were outside their broadcast area, then finally, it didn't matter and you could get the local affiliates regardless. Changeling TV. :o)

As a side note...Mr.flowerchild was terribly confuzzled by the satellite remote...he had no idea how to program the thing. When I was programing the allowed channels in, I left out Fox News......on purpose. No one ever missed it. Ok. I reckon I will get hit by lightning any minute now for being such a sneak. Oh, well.

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Too funny, TheraP, too funny.

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This thread started at lunchtime today (May 10). It is now 9:14 p.m. (Eastern) and the same group of people have been going at it for nine hours. Has anybody thought that maybe they should, well, I don't know... GET A LIFE?

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Yeah, it's pretty amazing, isn't it? ;)

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Standing apart of group again? Pyschologist, analyze yourself! ;-)

What's most interesting is that this thread began with some "self evident" assertions and yet no one was able to prove those assertions. And if you can't handle the heat of a simple Internet site, how do you expect to convert those in the "real world"?

I'd love to see the letters everyone here will be sending to their legislative folks. What exactly are you after and have you documented the issues thoroughly?

Some more work has to be done, I would think. Much more.

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Ah, CT...another rousing go-round...I'm beat, and have to be up early in the morning. We've accomplished very little, but it was fun.

BTW...Comcast in Sac offers all 3 stations at the 2nd tier pricing, none are included in basic cable. That is not the case in all areas, as we have discussed in prior threads this week.

I am no longer able to follow TPM during the day Mon. through Fri. on a regular basis, but I'm sure our paths will cross again...

See ya later!

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What's most interesting is that this thread began with some "self evident" assertions...

What I see is a "self evident" ass.

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You really are a Harpie, aren't you, seashell? No matter which portion of the thread I let you have the last word on, you continue to make comments that have nothing to do with anything substantive or close to the topic at hand. I know you love me, but please find another object of affection. Perhaps one who will love you back.

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So/that's/what/giving/seashell/the/last/word/looks/like?

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Nice try, Gregor, but look up above. Threads follow linearly in time, not in space. After a bunch of comments about me from her, I posted this comment. After all, Old Grouch has learned me that I have to "hit back". And Old Grouch is esteemed here by one and all. ;-)

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I feel the same way. Especially when I deliver a document to a business on the 30th floor of a swanky building--and I see fox on all the televisions. I feel like I've walked into a scene from The Matrix.

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Bingo!

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Frankly, Stilli, I think a lot was accomplished. I think that some found out that the arguments promoted here didn't amount to much in the way of convincing.

And that, when challenged, many here have no real answers. But they sure love their passive aggressive techniques. Including being "sneaky" with TV jammers and the like. Kind of hypocritical in my book.

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Hmmm. I think that CT has a point.

I work the desk at a motel, with a 25" flat screen TV right in front of me. When on, I have it tuned regularly to MSNBC. Especially in the evenings during the weeknights from 6:00 'til 10:00. Guess what I'm watching? I am regularly fascinated by who pays attention and who does not. I have never been asked to change the channel, but if I were I would simply turn it off. Yet, I am not required to do so by any law - because it is private property. Once they rent a room, they are protected by their renter's rights and can watch whatever they please.

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Eliot, over at Oxdown has this to say:

I was under the impression that Fox paid for the teeVees.
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I also just spent the night in a hotel that offered FOX, CNN and MCNBC among their in-room channel line up. Didn't notice a TV in the lobby.

I am in coastal NC, the aforementioned hotel was very close to the TN border.

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Deanie Mills wrote me this morning, and that was BEFORE I put up this blog:

my husband, who travels all over the greater Southwest area, says that in every motel or hotel he stays in, the TV's are always set on FOX news, and it's the same in restaurants with TV's.

So there must be some difference where you are from where he's traveling. Now, who knows for sure if he's referring to lobby TV's. That would be my guess. The public areas.

I can say for sure, however, that the medical waiting rooms and auto repair waiting rooms are set to Fox. (And my google efforts yesterday turned up more evidence, more complaints about ubiquitous Fox News.)

But I certainly believe you about your desk and as far as rooms go, I think there's always a choice inside the room.

I hope the FCC investigates. I sure can't!

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Another interesting aspect to this is that the my diary over at Oxdown is #2 on their diary list right now (thus has moved up all day) with no dispute whatsoever going on. I doubt there would have been much of one here today without the tireless efforts of one person only. Strange....

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Dearest Thera, I know you are not adverse to differing opinions. Even if presented in a less than pleasant manner with questionable motives. Having a diary reach a spot of prominence without dispute is not your agenda, or ultimate goal, I'm sure.

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Oh, that's true. You are correct. I was just noting the difference between the two.

And naturally I'm interested in how this working in different places. But see below for evidence that these folks are definitely looking for captive audiences and expanding that. My question is not how your specific place of employment deals with it, but what seems to be happening increasingly in our society. Due to corporations being given rights as persons and thus, via their money, having more clout.

I value your views. And I have no doubt that not all places of business have become "captive" to the media. But many, many have done so.

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I've said recently that Fox does seem to be the channel of choice in many waiting rooms and offices. No dispute there. I agree that it is in large part due to the fact that in many areas it is the only "news" channel offered by basic satellite / cable providers. I would surmise, however, that the businesses, etc. offer it because of that fact with little thought to anything else. My point is that it's not any more illegal than is the choice to display the Weather Channel.

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Hmmm. What if the weather channel was broadcasting bogus weather?

"There is no law, rule or regulation against slanting the news"

http://www.alternet.org/story/10832/?page=4

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Just quoting from your link, bwak:

Nader told jurors what the FCC has repeatedly said, that it is "a most heinous act" to use the public's airwaves to slant, distort and falsify the news. "A reporter has a legal duty to act in accordance with the Communications Act of 1934 in addition to their professional responsibility to be accurate, not to be used as an instrument of deception to the audience," Nader testified.
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Communications Act of 1934:

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/U/htmlU/uspolicyc/uspolicyc.htm

This legislative act remains the cornerstone of American television policy six decades after its initial passage. Though often updated through amendments, and itself based on the pioneering Radio Act of 1927, the 1934 legislation which created the Federal Communications Commission has endured remarkably well through an era of dramatic technical and social change.

As amended in 1996:

http://www.fcc.gov/telecom.html

It's supposed to give greater access to news, not less!

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See below, barefooted. Fox is doing it. Others are too. Specifically to "captive" audiences!

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News story from 2008:

Media firms use airports for branding, revenue

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26726030/

USA Today, CNN, other companies promote awareness to 'captive audience'
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This sure fits the FOX story:

As media companies look beyond their core properties for new revenue streams in a lackluster advertising market, airport locations seem ideal for promoting their brands.
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And this IS Fox!

"We look for unique opportunities to expand the brand and expand our awareness and also reap some additional revenue," said John Malkin, Fox's vice president for affiliate marketing.
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"You have a captive audience," she said.
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Obviously they are looking for places with captive audiences and they want to promote their brand!

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Is Fox making deals with anybody to show their station. eg. airports, hotel chain etc. It would be interesting to know.

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That's the very question I want answered!

The FCC needs to investigate!

My supposition is yes!

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I've read through this thread, and I have to say, the idea of the FCC legislating what should or shouldn't be on the TV of a place of business, NOT a public accomodation, is just plain silly to me.

I thought we liked freedom? Some here seem to be asking for the Government to force people to turn off Fox News, or force a cable company to pick up MSNBC.

What Fox is doing seems like free enterprise to me, and I can't stand the crap they show. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Ask to change the channel, or turn it down. Otherwise, you may have to deal with it, it's not your TV, and when you're not in your house, you're not in control of every damn thing.

As for the airport, every airport in the Northeast shows CNN. Why aren't we investigating them too?


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Exactly right

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Megadittos. There is no constitutional right to not be offended or annoyed or disagree with the views being presented. When Fox is on in a public venue/private establishment, I don't ask them to turn it. I sneer at the TV screen when they do unbelieveably biased stories and talk back to the screen (occassionally grunt random asshats) as is my constitutional right. There is value in watching what you disagree with so at the very least you can be informed when you criticize it to others.

More traumatic for me is my mom's doctor's office which for some reason plays Hannah Montana & The Secret Life of Zach and Cody on Saturday mornings. And this is for a doctior who specializes in geriatric patients. Egads. I know to bring along my iPod to drown it out.

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Dij: I loved your comment about the danger of other content! Thanks for the laugh!

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You are so right about this, TheraP.

These wingnuts are so ubiquitous, in fact, that even progressives who disagree with them are beginning to adopt their dysfunctional mindset--the gross intolerance of anyone who disagrees with them.

And even worse, at one time the Bush Administration was actually banning all progressive talk shows from even being aired in Iraq. That explains why even with the information that we had regarding the Bush administration's gross manipulation of the American people, he was still reelected to a second term.

There's only one solution to the problem--the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine. If FOX News and its counterparts had to give equal time every time they told a lie, they'd have to provide office space for truth-in-media organizations--and Limbaugh would have to broadcast with a progressive co-host.

Limbaugh and company take the position that the Fairness Doctrine constitutes censorship, but that's nonsense. In fact, it would promote more speech. No one would be preventing them from saying what they want to say--the American people whold simply be asserting our right not to allow OUR airways to be used for public manipulation.

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Thanks for weighing in, Eric. Much appreciated. I am counting on the FCC.

Especially for captive audiences, Fairness is a necessity!

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There's/where/the/rubber/hits/the/road.//These/are/public/airwaves.

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Wattree:

How much did you listen to Air America? How much did your friends listen to it? Did you support it with donations or by using the sponsor's products?

Suppose we show that the 3 top political sites on the Internet are

Huffington Post
Daily Kos
TPM

Does that mean they need to bring in right of center columnists?

Rush is successful on radio because of his business model which I discuss above. He is a media figure because the media covers him (including TPM). Air America's star (Franken) ran for Congress. A guy with essentially no political background. Imagine if Bill OReily ran for office. What would the TPM comments be?

Hannity and Colmes was a Fox show that would fit your notion of a Fairness Doctrine (two co-hosts different ends of the spectrum). Did you watch that show nightly? Did you think that it provided "balanced" coverage? Yet it followed your prescription. CNN had a similar show. Did you follow it? Did you find it valuable?

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Dorn writes:

you're not in control of every damn thing.

Bingo! What we have seen here is vigilante style protest. Ironic because this same group of people were very upset when the other side was doing it.

Moreover, as I noted waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up above, CNN, women's programming, local news, etc. are very much often on the screens.

I've yet to see any evidence among the vigilantes here to do real work in understanding how Fox ends up on screens. I pointed out to Stilli how Rush Limbaugh ends up on so many stations but no one picked up that thread.

One of the things that I love about the ACLU most is that they stick to principles -- and despite the liberal base of their donors, they correctly pointed out that freedom of speech ought to be open to Nazis as well in concordance with the law and federal and local regulations.

There is also a woeful lack of understanding of our judicial system by some here. The article cited by Bwakfat (and picked up in sentence style by TheraP) is about a single story from Fox back in 2000. Somehow they want to use this piece of evidence to talk about how Fox can be shown, in a court of law, to be a propaganda machine. That's extraordinarily difficult. Individual news stories can often be brought to court to be shown false, but that doesn't prove anything about the news organizations itself.

As a simple example: did any of the vigilantes stop reading the NY Times when they did their boo-boo about McCain? Sure there was an apology but did that violate your trust in the entire NY Times organization? Well, for people already upset with the NY Times, it was a great talking point as to why the NY Times shouldn't be taken seriously.

I'm fully familiar with Fox and have recommended people watch OUTFOXED, but to prove that there is an endemic style to be a propaganda machine in a court of law isn't going to happen. Even children know that all news media are biased (merely by the stories chosen and their order) and unless you found specific collusion between the government and Fox (that Fox was getting tax breaks from the government to push certain stories, etc.) how to you claim that Fox is dispersing propaganda?

There's no law against being stupid and there is no way to regulate what the general person in society is fed (which amounts to government control of the media). I remind everyone here that Air America was a dismal failure. Why? Who knows? Maybe not enough left of center people listen to radio. Maybe it was boring. I know that I listened for about 20 minutes (two 10 minute chunks on two separate weeks) and I found it as tedious as Rush. Maybe it was too expensive - they didn't give away the programming like Rush.

Ever drive through rural America? I often do. Much of the radio (FM also) is loaded with religious programming. What about the Fairness Doctrine there? Because we have Christian programming, we need Jewish programming, Muslim, ... hell (pun intended), we need Satanic programming also!

The only rational way of dealing with this is to allow access to multiple sources and hopefully people will get smart enough to examine and determine what they are being fed and where they should listen. (Noam Chomsky will tell you that NPR is certainly right of center and corporate, so even NPR is not enough for some!) If people don't want to deal with these other sources, fine. Nearly all US homes currently have Internet access, so they have the capability of finding out anything they want.

You can't educate the unwilling. But to regulate what the unwilling are exposed to ultimately undermines my freedom of choice. I want less regulation about content (except to bust monolithic monopolies -- which to a large degree we already have, and well beyond Fox!) and to target one organization and to imply "conspiracy" rather than strong business practices puts the sources of news I currently prefer at risk as well.

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Good points, CT, too bad they're being met with the sound of crickets.

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Not exactly.

Some of us work for a living.

=D

Thanks for the cynicism, though Dorn, got me off my chicken butt.

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Bwakfat, it didn't get you to do anything than repost what you already did here. I returned the favor.

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