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No Way He Could Lose, but...


John McCain must be the worst campaigner since the beginning of politics. His opponent has direct ties to 2 terrorist organizations (weather underground and the PLO). His opponent has a close personal friend and 'spiritual mentor' who is on tape saying 'God Damn America' and calling this country the 'USofKKKA', in addition to blaming us for creating AIDS. His opponent was on record demanding we surrender in Iraq, claiming the surge would be a failure and that the war was lost. His opponent has close ties to ACORN (in fact he first ran for office as an ACORN candidate), a group now being investigated nationwide for voter fraud. His opponent has ties to the former heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, he is the biggest receiver of donations from Fannie Mae, and he supported the legislation (backed by ACORN) that directly caused the sub prime meltdown and destroyed the world financial markets. In short he is running against the most liberal candidate since McGovern,  a man with no experience and radical views, and he is losing. Amazing!

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How much of this do you actually buy?

His opponent has direct ties to 2 terrorist organizations (weather underground and the PLO).

By that logic, McCain also has "direct ties" to several felons and terrorist organizations himself. (Far more than 2.) Just as with Ayers, several convicted felons have held fundraisers for McCain. Other than being a bulletpoint in McCain's speech, what makes Ayers special for you? How is he different than the numerous convicted felons that raised funds for McCain? (I'm assuming you're smart enough to not fall for the "working for the same chairty" line.)

His opponent has a close personal friend and 'spiritual mentor' who is on tape saying 'God Damn America' and calling this country the 'USofKKKA', in addition to blaming us for creating AIDS.

Do you really want to look at who McCain's "close personal friends" are? We could start with Keating, if you like.

His opponent was on record demanding we surrender in Iraq, claiming the surge would be a failure and that the war was lost.

And McCain is on record claiming we would be greeted as liberators. You know, flowers and all that.

His opponent has close ties to ACORN (in fact he first ran for office as an ACORN candidate), a group now being investigated nationwide for voter fraud.

As does McCain. Also, ACORN is guilty merely of hiring lazy workers (and arguably having insufficient oversight of said workers). I sincerely doubt that the person who registered to vote 20 times will be allowed to vote 20 times, just because s/he has 20 voter registration cards. If it was that easy, I'm sure they'd just be able to use the same voter registration card 20 times.

His opponent has ties to the former heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac…

As does McCain…

…he is the biggest receiver of donations from Fannie Mae…

Not true. He has received no money from them. He has received money from their employees, as private citizens. As Obama has raised much more money than McCain overall, from many more people, it's no surprise that if you pick a random company, more of its employees will have donated money to Obama.

he supported the legislation (backed by ACORN) that directly caused the sub prime meltdown and destroyed the world financial markets

That's one perspective. Another is that McCain supported the legislation that removed the regulations (Glass-Steagall) designed to prevent this meltdown.

In short he is running against the most liberal candidate since McGovern, a man with no experience and radical views, and he is losing.

As has every Republican candidate who has ever run. I challenge you to find a Democratic candidate for President who wasn't called the most liberal.

This is not to say that it's OK for Obama to do something just because McCain did it. I don't believe that. However, most (if not all) of your accusations are based on such flimsy connections that they could be applied to almost any political candidate.

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Ayers is not a convicted felon, but he is a traitor. A domestic terrorist that should have been executed, and is instead allowed to spread his filth indoctrinating college students. Obama knew who he was and what he stood for, and he willingly associated with him to further his career. Same with Wright, and the PLO terrorist that babysat his children. Obama's connections to radicals are not superficial, they define his character.

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Let's stick with just one, so we can see just how superficial it is. I'll pick Ayers. What, exactly, are these non-superficial connections? Be specific.

I know of 2:
1) Ayers held a fund-raiser for him.
2) They served on the board of a charity together.

Do you have anything else, or are you willing to apply the same litmus test to McCain? I can provide a whole laundry list of people who have held fund-raisers for McCain that you're not going to be proud of, and as for the people he's served with…

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With Ayers, he founded the Annenberg Challenge, Obama was selected as the chairman, and Obama then authorized large donations to Ayer's Peace School. They shared office space together, effectively working 'side by side'. Ayers held a fund raiser for Obama at his home. He introduced Obama to the Chicago left wing establishment. They exchanged emails, and phone calls as late as 2005, 4 years after Ayers appeared on the magazine cover standing on an American flag and boasting of his desire to have committed more terrorist acts. They served on the Woods Fund together, and authorized donations to the AAAN, a group founded by their common good friend, PLO fundraiser and spokesman Rashid Khalidi. They both attended a testimonial for him and both spoke on his behalf.

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Annenberg Challenge: Do you see anything wrong with this challenge, or do you think that Obama should have refused to help because one of the three sponsors was William Ayers?

"large donations to Ayer's Peace School": That was part of the Annenberg challenge. I don't see that this was Ayers' peace school. What's specifically wrong with this?

They shared office space together, effectively working 'side by side'.

As has McCain and several convicted felons.

Ayers held a fund raiser for Obama at his home.

This is the most damning bit of evidence. However, most politicians (including McCain) have had fund-raisers held for them by unsavory characters.

They exchanged emails, and phone calls as late as 2005

It's kind of hard not to, when you're both working for the same charities. Do you think that Obama should've refused to work for these charities because Ayers was also working for them? Do you know how many e-mails and phone calls McCain has exchanged with convicted felons?

They served on the Woods Fund together

As have several prominent Republicans

and authorized donations to the AAAN, a group founded by their common good friend, PLO fundraiser and spokesman Rashid Khalidi. They both attended a testimonial for him and both spoke on his behalf.

Unlike McCain and Arafat

What's your source for all this? I doubt you brought all this together by yourself, as much of it is hard to find out about by normal Google searches. Whatever your source, you should question the information they've been providing you, or, more specifically, the frame they're providing it in.

Basically, it boils down to Ayers living in Chicago and being a prominent actor there at the same time that Obama was. Anyone who lived in Chicago during that time (including several Republicans) has "associations" with Ayers. When viewed this way, your argument basically boils down to stating that Obama shouldn't live in a city where an unrepentant terrorist lives.

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They were more than just 2 people living in the same city Ben. Come on, he clearly knew this man, associated with him, was supported by him, returned that support, etc. Same with Khalidi, another terrorist supporter. Is it just bad luck all his friends turn out to be terrorists or America hating loons?

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All of his friends? No, all of his friends appear to be good, decent people. Does he have some acquaintances that are unsavory? Sure. Ayers and Obama were two prominent actors acting in the same town. Of course they're going to have to interact—as have several Republicans located in Chicago. Obama's "connections" to Ayers are no stronger than several other Republican politicians in Chicago. How does that fit into your theory? (OK, one difference: Ayers does support Obama. I see no evidence that Obama supports him, though.)

On a totally unrelated note. You need an avatar. It just so happens that I've created one for you.

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To be more specific, the Annenbergs of the Annenberg challenge are Republicans.

For more, see this blog entry:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/bacalove/2008/10/william-ayers-funded-by-republ.php

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Interesting to think that America is polling overwhelmingly for the most liberal voting record in the Senate. Makes you go "Hmmm?"

Get used to minority status. Practice saying, "Palin 2012, Palin 2012". It'll be fun.

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Or could it be that a majority of the American people have heard it and said. . . Not this time. We are not buying innuendo dressed up as facts.

And you are right McCain has run a terrible campaign, because rather than say why he would be better all he has done is say why Obama would be bad. And more to the point he couldn't even stick with on narrative on why he would be bad.

...once you’ve made a narrative choice, you do have to stick with it - you can’t just keep bouncing around, or people become confused. If you are telling the story of a scary vampire, you can’t decide in chapter 2 that he’s also 500 feet tall and radioactive and bent on destroying Tokyo, in chapter 3 that he is actually a giant man-eating shark, and in chapter 4 that he is all this and a super-terrorist trying to plant a nuclear bomb in Los Angeles. All of these things are, indeed, scary, but taken together they add up to a muddle.
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It's more than innuendo, but the media is completely on Obama's team, so the truth is heavily filtered. McCain should have been more aggressive, but he is too much of a 'bipartisan' guy.

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Yeah, those Fox News guys -- you know, cable's most-watched news channel -- are really in the bag for Obama.

I wonder why they failed so spectacularly for Kerry and Gore, though. Any thoughts?

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It's more than innuendo, but the media is completely on Obama's team, so the truth is heavily filtered.

Please lets be clear - it is your opinion it is more than innuendo. And more aggressive, my point was he was too aggressive and even here couldn't stick to one narrative.

Reality is John has not given the American voter a reason to vote for him. All he has done is try a give us reasons not to vote for Obama. While doing this maybe should be a part of your campaign it cannot be your whole campaign. It's a weak tactic that McCain has attempted to turn into strategy.

And I think this goes all the way back to the summer when the McCain campaign couldn't even come with a solid talking point as to why John McCain should be president.

The campaign was in the throes of an identity crisis by June 24, when a number of senior strategists gathered at 9:30 a.m. in a conference room of McCain’s campaign headquarters in Arlington. As one participant said later, the meeting was convened “because we still couldn’t answer the question, ‘Why elect John McCain?’ ” Considering that the election was less than five months away, this was not a good sign.

My finally point, I always liked John and used to think highly of him. A lot of that has gone away this cycle by his own doing. However, I still think he was/is a good Senator, but would he be a good President? After watching the way he has run his campaign I very much doubt it.

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Oh I was expecting an argument. I must have wandered in to the abuse room by mistake.

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Rather than addressing Mr. Clever Bulldog's rant, which is as tiresome as it is oft repeated, I will merely say that it is sad to me how impossible it is for one side to understand and respect the other. We come from different world views that have been subsequently reinforced by different experiences and we have enforced our prejudices with differing sources of information.

I love my brother, but we cannot talk politics because there's no basis of understanding. He thinks abortion is the only issue that matters. If I point out that it is a ploy that the conservatives use very successfully to get support, so successfully that they never actually DO anything about it because that would lose them a wedge issue, my brother becomes unhappy with my argument, but it doesn't change our relative stances and beliefs.

So, I'm sorry for you, Clever Bulldog, because you have chosen to believe a smear campaign that doesn't hold up when subjected to impartial scrutiny. You will never admit you're wrong, but will continue to filter every positive report about President Obama through your extremely slanted view of the world.

I would venture to say that even if President Obama manages to be a very good manager of our national crises in an extremely difficult time, he will get no credit from his opposition, no admission that their beliefs were incorrect, based on lies intended to provoke passion.

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If Obama does less damage than Jimmy Carter I will be stunned. He is as naive as Carter, and far more radical. I judge him by his own words and actions. He supports abortion, even partial birth abortion. He supports banning guns (though he lies about it now). He is a socialist, a fan of high taxes and more government control. He would run our economy like Cuba or the old Soviet Union, with the gov't. making all plans, not the free marketplace.

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A question- Should you be wrong will you have the courage to admit it?

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If I don't die from shock. I would like to be wrong about him, but there is no reason to suspect I am. Judging from his past associations and votes on key issues, he is everything I despise. I have no doubt he will do his best to destroy this country.

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I have no doubt he will do his best to destroy this country.

Careful -

“Doubt is uncomfortable, certainty is ridiculous."
Voltaire

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CleverBulldog,

Do you really believe that Palin is competent to be vice-president? President? To my knowledge, you have never answered this query.

Excellent piece on Politico about media 'bias', pretty much sums it up.....factually! Have you read it?

And have you considered the others who were involved in the Annenberg Challenge board, et al. and also served with Ayers? Supporters and friends of McCain!

What about McCain's former compatriot who has been arrested for voter fraud?

Interested in your reply.

Thanks.

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Re Palin, I don't know. The VP job doesn't require much. Al Gore did it and he is a total idiot. As far as President, I think she would benefit from some experience, like VP, first. Of course same could be said for Obama who has less experience than Palin.
Re media bias, haven't seen that yet. I have seen the 30 plus AP investigations into Palin vs the 0 into Obama. The detailed instant investigation of 'Joe the Plumber' vs the total silence on Ayers.

And Obama's connection to Ayers was far more than serving on a board together.

Don't even talk about voter fraud, with Obama being the ACORN poster boy. He started his career in the ACORN NEW PARTY in Chicago. He lawyered for them, donated money to them, and paid them to work for his campaign. And they are the kings of voter fraud.

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Ok I'm sick of this sitting here like a turd, so let's go.

Cain must be the worst campaigner since the beginning of politics.

This is the only part you got right.

His opponent has direct ties to 2 terrorist organizations (weather underground and the PLO).

Direct ties? So he's a member? And about the weather underground: f-you. Ayers was fighting against government tyranny. Comparing them to modern terrorists who want to kill American citizens makes you look like a fool.

His opponent has a close personal friend and 'spiritual mentor' who is on tape saying 'God Damn America' and calling this country the 'USofKKKA', in addition to blaming us for creating AIDS.

Oh wow. You man a black preacher was upset about how his parish was being treated? Wow, I cannot believe it. Unless you know *directly* the oppression these people live with every day, you can just STFU.

His opponent was on record demanding we surrender in Iraq, claiming the surge would be a failure and that the war was lost.

Obama never *demanded* surrender. What he said was, quite correctly, that our resources are far better off being spent elsewhere. You still disagree with this? You're like the last person on the planet.

His opponent has close ties to ACORN (in fact he first ran for office as an ACORN candidate), a group now being investigated nationwide for voter fraud. His opponent has ties to the former heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, he is the biggest receiver of donations from Fannie Mae, and he supported the legislation (backed by ACORN) that directly caused the sub prime meltdown and destroyed the world financial markets.

This is just so badly misinformed it's hard to refute due to the high amount of insanity. I will try, however. ACORN registers people to vote. How can they possibly be causing *voting fraud* when they are doing exactly what the govt tells them to do - submit fraudulent claims along with the rest. If there's any fraud, it's by individual registrants lying to make a buck. There is no grand conspiracy, much as you want one. This is entirely unrelated to Freddy and Fanny, which was actually caused mainly by idiot banks lowering their credit standards, and a government standing by and unwilling to intervene.

In short he is running against the most liberal candidate since McGovern, a man with no experience and radical views, and he is losing. Amazing!

Liberal != poison, no matter Bill OReilly and Manatee Hannity are telling you. Infact, Michele Bachmann just got spanked for spreading crap like this. Hopefully you are next in line.

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>Direct ties? So he's a member? And about the >weather underground: f-you. Ayers was fighting >against government tyranny. Comparing them to >modern terrorists who want to kill American >citizens makes you look like a fool.

Ayers was fighting against tyranny? By trying to kill American citizens? By planting bombs at a judges home and terrorizing his family and neighbors? By trying to bomb a dance for young soldiers and their wives/girlfriends? He is no different than AlQuaeda or Tim McVeigh. He set off bombs to kill and terrorize to get his way politically, because his deranged views were not supported by a majority.

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Ok let's talk about domestic terrorists then.

A group from the 60's was so utterly disgusted with the behavior of their government that they went crazy. One of them has understood what he did wrong, atoned for his sins, and is now a well respected faculty member at the University of Chicago. Who the fuck are you?

Let's try it this way: at least a dozen times over the past century right-wing terror groups have bombed abortion clinics or made hit lists of abortion doctors. John McCain is hard-right anti-abortion and has not denounced these radicals. Oh also, John McCain has close ties to G. Gordon Liddy. Therefore John McCain is a terrorist supporter who will stop at nothing to destroy this country.

There, you see how that worked? I casted aspersions on John by bringing up his past and even present associations. Are you starting to see how dumb this is?

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Where did you get the idea Ayers atoned for his sins? He was quoted in 2001 as saying he only regretted not doing more. He was photographed standing on an American flag, with the headline 'Guilty as Sin, Free as a Bird'. Not exactly a repentant sinner. Oh, and did you ever read his WU manifesto? I especially liked the part where he stated that after the socialist uprising he hoped to inspire took control, that about 25% of the population, the 'hard core capitalists', would need to be executed. That's your nice, harmless little professor.

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Yeah? I'm not saying Ayers is a saint, perhaps I overstated. I only meant that his peers and the world have forgiven the guy enough that he can be a professor at the U of C. If he's so dangerous as you suggest, he should be in jail not teaching students. Yet he is not. Please explain why. Also, is anger at the government and failed capitalism not understandable right now? Or are you firmly in the "my govt can do no wrong" camp?

And you haven't responded at all to the idea that the right has it's share of nutbars. It's sounding to me more and more like you are one of them, since you only see nuttiness on the left.

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Why is he a professor? Hell, all of the Weathermen are professors now (except those in exile or jail or dead). The easiest way to full professorship at a major university is to be a left wing terrorist nut case. Ayers, Dohrn, Davis, Rudd, Rosenberg, plus Khalidi and Al Arian at Columbia and USF, plus Churchil at CU. Our schools are crawling with terrorists and their sympathizers.

As far as anger at Capitalism, why? How has it failed? The problem in the markets now is the result of gov't meddling, not capitalism. The CRA and the pressure to lend to people with bad credit, coupled with FNM and FRE making a market for junk, plus Sarbanes/Oxley and Mark to Market rules caused all this.

As far as me being a right winger, you bet I am.

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LOL

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As far as me being a right winger, you bet I am.

Good for you. Recognizing the problem is the first step in correcting it.

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Darn I wish I'd though of that!

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Oh and I must apologize. I misread the bit about Freddy and Fanny, thought you were attributing it to ACORN.

Paragraphs are your friend, maybe try using more next time ;-)

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