Healthcare Costs and the Myth of Long Waiting Lines
In my post interpreting the results, I mentioned that Americans actually receive less health services than Canadians under their public system with a ratio of .71:1. That is to say that every Americans receives .71 health services for every health service recieved by a Canadian (per the highly reputable Victor Fuch's Future of Health Policy). This statistic seems to run counter to the conservative counter argument that Canadian's have to wait in long lines for health services and that is something worth paying much more to avoid.
Ezra Klein explains why:
Waiting times: Here's how the dodge works: If you look at waiting times, you'll see that relatively few Americans wait more than four months for surgery, which helps folks claim that America doesn't ration care, and makes our system look pretty good on the waiting times metric. Here's what they don't tell you: When you look at who foregoes care, the international comparisons reverse themselves. About 23% of Americans report that they didn't receive care, or get a test due to cost. In Canada, that number is 5.5%.
Worse, the American number is understated, as in order to know you need a surgery or further care, you need to go for an initial appointment, and as it happens, many Americans -- including 36 percent below average income -- aren't even seeking that. And it's this group -- which is largely low-income, and I'd guess, largely urban -- who would, in another country, be experiencing terrific wait times. Here, they never get care at all. We call that "no wait" rather than infinite wait. The studies misleadingly write them out of the waiting statistics, making it look like America has low wait times when the relevant population is simply never getting care at all. But would you rather be the urban poor in London, who wait a year for a hip replacement, or the urban poor in America, who never get one?
So it's not good and it's not pleasant. Maybe it's cheap?
Canada: $3678
France: $3449
Germany: $3371
UK: $2760
USA: $6714The difference between UK and America could buy every America 5.3 ounces of pure gold per year.
Value: Who has better outcomes is like Camry vs. Accord. Some things are better on one car, some things are worse. But if you paid 15,000 for your Camry, and I paid $22,000 for my Accord, then in fact the Camry is MUCH better.
So it's not cheap, and it's not pleasant, and it's not good. We may not agree on what reform looks like, but we should be able to agree that this is not acceptable. There is no defense for a system delivering such poor value.
Therefore, the reason wait times seem shorter in the United States is that many people can't afford the service in the first place and thus forego the procedure entirely. This is a perfect example of what statisticians would call a selection bias. This particular selection bias occurs when you are actually selecting on the dependent variable. That is to say that the sample (those in line for a health service) is not complete by the very nature of what your trying to measure (the number of people waiting for service). The number of people in line for health services and the amount of time on waiting lists would drastically increase if everyone were able to afford the procedure. Because costs keep people off the waiting lists, measuring waiting times as indicator of a good health system will make the system look more efficient than it actually is.
This is consistent with my previous post because it illustrates how a public system in which everyone could participate would represent an aggregate improvement in health.





Once again, you put numbers to such helpful use. It certainly demolishes the argument that "we don't wait." Right.... those with means "don't wait" and those lacking means... simply don't come or come too late.
December 7, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks TheraP - I am glad you have taken an interest in my ramblings!
December 7, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I enjoyed the read. Thanks for posting.
December 7, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have actually read postings that suggest that people who don't get treatment now (because they can't afford it) would just gum up the works for the rest of us once they get insured. The idea that it is a good thing for people not to get the care they need so that others don't have to wait is so selfish and so hard to understand that it is impossible to argue. It is like trying to explain to a blind person the difference between sky-blue and sea-blue. There is no common language that will do it.
Thanks for the posts. Maybe the actual numbers will convince some people who can only see the world that way. As for me, the principle of the "common good" is enough of a reason to back universal health care.
December 7, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Many of those without health coverage end up impacting the current 'system', economically and health resource-wise, at the back end when they're admitted to emergency care after their symptoms deteriorate. An ounce of prevention is truly worth a pound of cure. You might mention that to those you find difficult to argue this issue with.
December 7, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am in complete agreement that the ethic of care demands that all receive healthcare. Nevertheless we up against so much greed, whether of insurance companies that want to scare some folks or against those who believe they have more "right" to 'care' than the poor or the marginalized. For that reason, I think The Arse is a great boon to this site! The numbers may convince some folks whose 'beliefs' are based on nothing but assumptions.
December 7, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS, I can't understand why this blog is showing up as "no comments" and "no recommends." So I'm wondering if The Arse remembered to check "cafe" or whatever. Or maybe the system is slow today. Or on strike related to health care. Or something.
December 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weird. What shows up depends on where you look. (There must be some wisdom there somewhere!)
December 7, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did initially forget to check the box, I have since gone back and checked it - my mistake.
December 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you ask me, it should default to the cafe at the very least. Strange that is doesn't, in my view. Don't blame yourself. The software here is notorious for being a bit quirky.
December 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Canada is so great - then why do alot of Canadian doctors send their patients to the US for treatment? Please read the link below
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17197
December 7, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Consider the source MCB. The National Center for policy analysis is a conservative think tank that denied man made causes for global warming and sought to sidetrack the Kyoto protocol. Similarly, they are interested in seeing the market sort out healthcare. In the link you cited, they quote the Cato institute as the source. Cato is even more conservative/right wing. This is one of those deals where a bunch of right wing groups keep quoting each other until it starts to appear as if they have some validity to their viewpoints. Somebody here called it the 'right wing circle jerk' or something to that effect recently. An apt description in my opinion.
December 7, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I lived in DC, and I was fully insured it took me 3 months to get a GP - and then when I got that GP, it turned out they were in Baltimore. So I called my insurance company and guess what. . . another three months to get a GP.
So, in the US it takes 12 months to get in just to see a GP. . . I'm thinking Canada sounds pretty nice.
December 8, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Because the U.S. spends 3,000 dollars more per person. That -- and taking 40 million people out of the waiting line -- speeds things up somewhat. Obviously.
December 8, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lets see. I go to my GP (Dr.) and even if I arrive on time, I still wait an average of 15 min. If I go to the hospital emergency room, or am taken there by the EMTs - unless I'm in eminent danger of cashing it in with in 5 min. or so, I wind up waiting for over an hour to see an emergency physician. Thats now.
Any change to this has got to be an improvement.
C
December 7, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well if we model ourselves after Canada, the waiting time from GP to a specialist procedure can be anywhere from 4 to 40 weeks. Is that an improvement?
December 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know a number of Canadians, and a number of Americans, both of whom use GPs-and-specialists.
The Canadians do gripe about waiting times. Their waiting times are generally one week to three months, depending on the problem. The Americans don't gripe as much. Their waiting times are generally one week to three months, depending on the problem.
That's for the covered Americans, of course. Those who are not covered, don't even see a GP, much less a specialist. I know a few of them who have wound up in the emergency room as a result. I end up paying for their ER visits, via my taxes and my own ER bills (I got hit by a car once: ambulance bill was $700, ER bill was about $3000, no overnight stay in the hospital; followup for shattered bones and ligament tears ran another $10k).
It's not entirely clear why the covered Americans don't gripe as much about their wait times as the Canadians do. Perhaps the Canadians, who are all covered, are not so grateful just to be covered.
December 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh I was referring to when I actually got the appointment. The appointment is usually a number of weeks in advance. More if I see a specialist of any kind.
In other words, I have to plan on being sick well in advance.
C
December 8, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's better than a wait that is infinite because you can't afford the procedure anyway. Did you actually read the original post? Or are you just spewing out automated wingnut talking points?
December 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Despite the propaganda, we DO NOT have the best--or even a very good--health system. On top of all of the other issues, with the many different plans covering those of us who DO have coverage, the ins and outs of what exact coverage that entitles us to can be confusing at best. Further, many health plans have pre-approval requirements before any treatment can begin, which also adds to the time you wait for treatment. All in all, our system really sucks for almost everyone, and the propaganda from the insurance company keeps the people from wanting to see it fixed.
December 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for posting this. Rec'd.
December 8, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink