The Change We Need to Get Used To
This week, there's been much reflecting upon the chorus of economists saying that Obama's proposal isn't big enough. Josh's last update on his take on this story referenced a post at 538 suggesting that Obama's game is to start low and let Congress bid it up.
I have to agree with Silver on this one, if only because this is what I've been saying in a series of comments--some unnecessarily ill-tempered--and a blog post for the last several days. Digby, for one seems to agree that what we're seeing is Kabuki theatre, a manipulative political exercise in which Obama is more interested in getting outside forces to "force" him to take what he really wants than in getting credit.
In this regard, Josh raises an important point:
Second, when I write stuff critical of Obama, either on the policy or political fronts, there's always a rush of emails saying, 'Give him a chance!' 'Leave Obama alone!' 'He's probably got a plan you don't know about!' and so on. He may. I hope he does. But all of these debates are dynamic. You never assume anything. If Nate's right about what Obama's plan is, having people pushing for something better from the outside is part of it. So under either scenario, holding your tongue makes no sense, in addition to being unethical.
I think we've gotten so locked in to the Internet clock where an hour is a news cycle, a day is a month and eight years ago is forever that we're having trouble shaking off some of the habits of thought we evolved during the Bush years, because we can't remember anything else. Specifically, many of us have become accustomed to being a lot smarter than the President of the United States. We are used to a world where a guy who glanced over the news on the Internet during morning coffee has obtained more useful information about the state of the nation and the world than the President can from all of the vast means of information at his disposal. Our patterns of thought are locked into a world where "political" means that objective facts are routinely suppressed or ignored when they don't conform to an ideologically driven worldview and that they are distorted or contradicted by lies when they don't serve the administration's narrowly-conceived political ends. We have become accustomed to a world led by people who adhere to a dangerous admixture of post-modernism, literalism and rigid narrow-mindedness. We've come to equate crude fear-mongering and ham-fisted tactics like political motivated criminal indictments with political savvy.
Allow me to suggest that if one wants to do more than play the ever-befuddled Dr. Watson over the next eight years, one would do well to dig into their memory and recall what it was like back in the long lost days of the 90s when the president was smarter than most of us. Even those frames won't be a good fit this time. Bill Clinton was only obvious when it suited his purposes to be obvious, but however opaque his activities, there were always leakers--authorized or otherwise--to illuminate his thinking. If Bill Clinton had been low-balling a massive spending bill in an effort to get outside experts and Congress to "force" him to increase it, there would have been a confidentially-sourced story in the WaPo explaining his strategy within 24 hours. We're not going to get as much of that from Obama, if past practice is any indication.
What we can do, however, is credit Obama with the native intelligence, open-mindedness and political shrewdness he's been demonstrating throughout his public life and apply a little logic to puzzle. It's not about some Kool-Ade inspired hallucination of perfection or some totalitarian child-like faith in the infallibility my Glorious and Infallible Leader. It's just seeing a an apparent mystery and using some logic--rather than analytical frames developed to explain the actions of an imbecile--to decode it.
So what are we to make of the "Mystery of the Plan That Was Way Too Small?" Is it too small because Obama is too dumb to believe Nobel prize winning economists? Is Obama the kind of guy who believes his own inexpert opinion from the gut is as better than the opinion of some ivory tower intellectual? I think all the availible evidence--and his own statements--indicates quite the contrary. Throughout his campaign Obama emphasized that that kind of thinking had been one of the worst, most destructive aspects of the Bush years.
Well then, is this bill too small because Obama's just too stubborn to admit he's wrong, that this is the plan he invented and he'll brook no gainsaying? Well that seems to be what a lot of people in the comments here seem to think, but, I have to say, once again, wrong president, guys. Nothing in his past indicates that Obama works and thinks this way.
Well then, the answer must be that he's more interested in pleasing the Republicans than in doing the right thing, right?
Seriously? He's more interested in making the knuckle-walking nitwits who are left in the Republican caucuses happy than in saving the nation from the worst recession in decades? He'd rather risk a recession that would cripple his presidency and possibly lose us our Congressional majorities in 2010 than be seen as partisan? Or maybe you think he really does believe that the best thing to do in this situation is let the reckless ideologues whose intractable wrong-headedness created this mess call shape his policy?
No, you say, none of that (and stop putting words in our straw mouths, you jerk) but maybe he thinks he needs their votes.
The problem with that theory is that Obama has demonstrated that he knows how to count. He won the nomination (without following the frantic advice of many a frantically worried blog commenter) because he could count delegates and set about accumulating a majority of them rather than just assuming the majority just happened as a result of campaigning. He won the general because he could count electoral votes and, having counted them, concentrated on winning the states he needed to win rather than trying to win states he's already won (or couldn't win).
And if he can count delegates and electoral votes, I expect his experience as a state and federal legislator have given him at least some skill in counting legislative noses. Those who can do that will quickly discovery that notwhatstanding all the blustering and harrumphing they've been doing on the teevee, the Republicans of the 111th Congress are toothless, dehorned and neutered. The House Republicans will get help from the House Blue Dogs? Please. Each and every one of these people has to face the voters in 2010 and anyone who votes against this bill will be punished, especially if things get worse. Prof. Keynes is Speaker of the House this year, and no Democrat will dare cross him.
But how about the Senate? Obama thinks he has to kowtow to McConnell because McConnell has enough votes to block a cloture vote, right? No. Count the shiny red noses people: the Republican caucus is only going to have forty-one (41) votes this session. Has anyone heard any Senate Democrat, even the quasi-Democrats like Lieberman and the Nelson Twins, criticizing this bill because it costs too much or doesn't have enough tax cuts? As to the other vote we'll need to invoke cloture, Almost half of the Republican seats are up for election in 2010. You think we can't peel off eight or nine of them for this vote?
So if you've read this far, maybe you're asking "so, okay, smartass, what do you think his game is?"
Well having eliminated the impossible and the highly unlikely, I think the answer is this: Obama just got out of Congress. He is acutely aware that this is the United States Congress that's going to have to pass this thing and it this is a bill that must pass and must be signed. It is, in fact, the most must-passiest, must signiest piece of legislation in decades. A big chunk of his team likewise came out of Congress. All of them have been around the Village for decades. They've all seen how Congress works and when you add "must pass, must sign" to "Multiple Nobel Prize Winning Economists Say All Spending Limits Are Off," what you get is a gigantic, magnetic ball of glue that's going to pick up every pet project it passes as it rolls through the halls. Even if Obama was banging his shoe on the table and squaling like a petulant chimp that this bill must be passed exactly as introduced, there is no chance--zero, zip, none--that it comes out of Congress without having picked up at least a couple of hundred billion dollars more--and three or four hundred is more likely--in additional spending. I think he's considering that, and then looking down at the road at the 350 billion in remaining TARP funds that are going to be expended plus the stimulative effect of universal health insurance coverage, plus all the crazy shit the Fed has done and will do and he's decided that starting too small is self-correcting but starting too big is not.
So yeah, Josh is right. Having people take him at face value is integral to making the strategy work. But, really, the only way there's a "may" in "he may have a plan" is if you assume he's Bush. He's not. That's the change we need to get used to.





FWIW, three paragraphs from the 538 post referenced above that probably obviate this whole post:
January 11, 2009 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post, Steve. I suppose the time will probably come when Obama says or does that gets a negative response from me, but that day has not come yet. I think the man is brilliant and has surrounded himself w/ people who can get done the things he needs to do to get his vision for the country going. He has not done one thing that makes me doubt that.
Patience is not my strong suit, but he hasn't even been sworn in yet, and I think it is grossly premature for people to be running around regretting the decision to vote for him already.
This country is so screwed up at the moment, that it is going to take time to get it back on the right track. I'm willing to give him time. Lots of it. If we aren't showing some progress by 2010-2011, I may get a little concerned. Until then, I'll e-mail him when I have something to say that I think he needs to hear, but I won't be doin' a bunch of bad mouthin'. I want him going into 2012 as strong as possible.
January 11, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
That day will almost certainly come for me. It is not possible for me to agree with someone as long, and as much, as I've agreed with Obama since I read his last book. It's not in my basically disagreeable nature. But I am likewise almost certain that that day is not going to come until sometime after 12:00 EDT Tuesday next.
January 11, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. We'll never have any idea what the "real plan" is. This is politics. As such people really have no choice but to provide the most honest feedback they can in any circumstance.
I like Josh's addition that to do otherwise is both nonsensical and unethical.
January 11, 2009 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree also. And go ahead and make some noise lefties. It is ok with me.
January 11, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's so true, everything, all the points that you made - in my opinion anyways. Obama is an intellectual, not just smart. During the campaign we've seen how the media/pundits have criticized him for it and even said he was too nuanced, advising him to dumb down his speeches and debate responses (it's too bad because I could listen to him talk all day). But when most try to figure out what he's thinking or why he made a certain decision - they take the route of someone who thinks like well, Bush. I liked Nate's article because it fit more with what Obama might do or think. To say that he chose to aim low to appease Republicans is just really lazy. Anyway, great article. Now here come the same old comments.
January 11, 2009 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
If wisdom can be defined as learning from the mistakes of others, then Obama is a very wise man.
January 11, 2009 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve. I think what you - and Josh - are saying is, in fact, extremely likely. Any politician of intelligence makes opening bids that take into account how people will respond. And Obama has some big league intelligence.
That said, can we agree here that it is NOT necessarily anti-Obama or anti-Democrat to make the case for more stimulus, or single payer health care, or to critique various initial positions put forward by the PE?
Some seem to believe stating a critique equals "whining", or "forming a circular firing squad", or being a "self-righteous progressive lefty," etc. And yes, for some, this may be the case.
But it'd be good to know that we can have an open debate on this stuff, state our views when we believe that Obama needs to adjust course, without it being viewed as attacking the whole Obama project. Cheers.
January 11, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no problem with any of that. It's all good. I do have a big problem, however with people (i.e. not you) who,
a) sonorous prognostications of inevitable sellouts to Republicans and penetrating insights into Obama's generally weak centrist character and general gloom and doom; or, b) dismissing anyone who takes a contrary postition in a real arugment as having a Messiah complex or a case of totalitarian Leader love.
January 11, 2009 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rats.
And just when I'd perfected my "sonorous prognosticator" voice.
Maybe I could just use it on weekends? Wouldn't want those courses to be a total loss.
January 12, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you should talk with Josh about adding user generated pod casts.
just imagine the cacophony.
January 12, 2009 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post. I was going to write on this subject myself but you beat me to the punch. I wouldn't have topped "giant magnetic ball of glue" anyway. Hats off, NC Steve.
One further related point. I personally think Obama is smarter than most of us, and he's surrounded himself with people he thinks will help him. That doesn't mean regular folks shouldn't continue to question, analyze and opine. I think Obama is expecting it. A president who actually invites citizen input? Now that's change I can believe in.
January 11, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
January 11, 2009 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is first and foremost a human. Like any politician -- and especially one that runs for president -- his ego is huge. Like all who seek the office, he wants to leave his deeds as part of the historical record.
Obama does not have all the answers, nor are the situations static to allow those answers even if he has them. Issues associated with finite resources (oil and water) and associated with the environment (global climate change) are 100% out of his control. His only possible response is to guide the country in a time of what will be massive social transition.
On top of that, there are a number of other nations on Earth, each with their own agenda. Obama will have to guide the country through that maze as well.
The frothy euphoria that people expressed here during the primary and general election was always just that -- and Obama tapped it well to win his victory. However, we have a President, not a dictator. We have a Constitutional Republic not a free-flowing democracy.
Anyone who thinks that Obama has a master plan is foolhardy - because such a master plan can only work with static conditions. The world is a dynamic place. Obama will always be juggling melting snowballs on a hot August day. That's the nature of the presidency.
I fully expect Obama to make many little mistakes, just not too many big ones. And I expect him to learn from those mistakes and not to repeat them. However, he is just one person in the government. If Obama's candidacy has any long term meaning at all, it's that there might be a great awakening of political awareness. There is still much work to be done in choosing State and Federal elected officials -- and they, too, will have a say as to the outcome of where the country is headed.
Just as any good poker player knows, you never let anyone at the table see your inner self. As a man who is 1/2 black and 1/2 white, Obama has been able to prepare himself for that role rather well. That and his ability to mobilize people's emotions will be his greatest tools in moving the country forward.
Do not expect that he will be omniscient, just hope that he will be able to use superior reasoning to deal with the facts as he is aware of them. To take our own pulses every 30 seconds may be valuable for keeping eyeballs on a website, but, in the end, it all becomes ethereal speculation.
Make sure your local, State, and Federal elected officials hear you just as much as you want Obama to. That is the way to bring about change.
January 11, 2009 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would counter that you CAN have a master plan as long as it is flexible enough to allow for tweaking, as necessary. Your statement of fact that we are foolhardy for believing that he does, is, well...not a fact, but rather, your opinion. But, bless you CT, you ARE entitled to it.
January 11, 2009 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do please tell me what you think that master plan is? I'm assuming Obama has a set of specific goals, and he will start with a direction -- but he will have to veer from that direction significantly, reprioritize the goals and have to face a number of other issues that negates any reason to have a master plan. You can have a master set of goals. But this isn't engineering. The pieces are constantly in flux.
It's your turn: what do you think Obama's master plan is?
January 11, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he has a plan to do everything he said he wanted to do during the election...get the economy back on track, get us out of Iraq, close Gitmo, restore our standing in the world, get people covered for health care, get people contributing to each other's well-being, get the government more streamlined and operating more transparently, getting the 2 parties working together, etc, etc, etc. Nothing new. I think that just like he planned how to win the nomination, then the election, he's been planning how to make the things he talked about a reality. Do I believe he'll be able to do it all? I thought he could until I saw so many people falling apart here. With all the fussing and fighting from us, I'm less sure, but still hopeful.
I know you think I'm gullible, and I'd venture to guess not very smart, but that's okay. I prefer my optimism to your pessimism any day of the week. I recognize that you're more knowledgeable than I am, but I'm nicer, and I'm willing and anxious to learn. I'll stay me.
January 12, 2009 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said you were gullible, I never said you weren't smart.
In fact, I never addressed you specifically in my posting -- yet apparently you feel the comments aimed at you personally.
I will say this: you claim I am pessimistic which I am not. If I didn't think it mattered who was in the White House, I wouldn't vote. I am a pragmatist who is outspoken enough in rooms on occasion to make people re-consider assumptions and see different ways. On occasion, I have saved the government considerable amounts of our tax dollars as a result. Indeed, it may amuse you to learn that on occasion more than one politician has called me idealistic.
You can continue to see this as a battle of personalities if that is the level that makes you feel comfortable. On the other hand, there are occasionally ideas I post in-between the lines that might give you food for thought. What you choose to do with those nuggets, or how valuable you find them, is totally up to you, Still.
January 12, 2009 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
CT, you do very well at not saying the words, it's the tone that goes along with your writing that is so condescending...It's not like no one has mentioned it before, yet you keep doing it. One is led then to the conclusion that you are conveying exactly the message you intend to convey.
I often find myself agreeing with what you say, once I go through the torturous process of getting past the obnoxious way you say it...Seems like it would be so much easier to just. be. nice. Please.
January 12, 2009 1:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
So basically, you want us to pay no heed to your tone of voice and just try to figure out the thought-provoking arguments that you've posted in between the lines because you promise us they really will be worth our time? Do you even read your own posts?
January 12, 2009 8:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh Marshall wrote:
Loki said:
But it's done. He's going to be President. He is going to govern (or try to!). This is the time for skepticism. By all. It is our responsibility, as the people who supported him and voted for him--and in some cases campaigned for him--to begin to hold him accountable. To, in essence, say to Obama, "Hey, we're watching pal!" Some say it's too soon. He hasn't even taken office yet! Well he's not waiting, why should you? His administration-to-be is out floating trial balloons. He's having his advisors meet with Senators and Representatives. When people like Tom Harkin meet with them and come back with their impressions of those meetings, then you have a responsibility to consider it. And if you don't like what you're hearing, say so.
Telling everyone to mellow out and and just trust him is stupid, condescending and ultimately irresponsible.
Just sayin'.
January 11, 2009 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goddamn html! I did that correctly this time. Don't know what happened.
Everything but "just sayin" should be blockquoted. Aargh!
January 11, 2009 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sight of Josh channelling you, Loki... this doesn't worry you? Next thing you know, there'll be bags of flaming shite being flung from the ramparts of TPM. ;-)
Rock on, guy. I'd say you won this round. Notch it up.
January 12, 2009 1:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is a tad bizarre, yes. But I'm sure more for him than for me! heh-heh!
January 12, 2009 7:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Josh needs a new avatar. Whaddya think?
I know. Me too. Nice pony, but maybe too much edge.
Ok. Maybe something more contemplative?
We probably need Josh to drop by, but I'm pretty sure he'd like one of these.
January 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha-ha! Good ones. I actually contemplated them both when I was making the switch. Ultimately I didn't care for that rendering.
For Josh... I feel this would suit him best: http://www.cdli.ca/CITE/loki.gif
January 12, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that a sword in your pocket or....
January 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I concur completely with you loki!
January 12, 2009 1:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I you.
Clearthinker, though, certainly has a point. Of course, I doubt it's possible for someone like me to get "too far" out in front! ;^}
January 12, 2009 7:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
The trick in life is to be ahead of the crowd, but not too far ahead. ;-)
January 12, 2009 2:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I, for one, am not trying to suppress debate, nor am I "[t]elling everyone to mellow out and and just trust." I am, however, arguing that the baseline assumptions for the debate should at least be elevated above the presumption of imbecility we have come to apply to the current Administration.
Personally, it took me a long time to emotionally and intellectually accept how truly shallow and stupid the Bushies were. I was too often afflicted by a case of "there must be something I don't know; they must be acting on the basis of information I don't have, because otherwise what they're doing is incomprehensibly stupid." There was an element of denial, but also past experience played a role. It took me a long time to come to grips with it because their stupidity was unprecedented in my life and, at least since the Harding Administration, U.S. history. Even under Reagan, there was usually a discernable game within the game and a method to the madness (even if it was malevolent). Indeed, I think you have to go back to the Stuarts and the Bourbons to find any historical parallel for kind of catatastrophic small-mindendess that's been the norm since the day after election day in 2000.
My imagination was insufficient to the task and, eentually, only the inductive power of events as they unfolded made me accept it. From that point on, the inherent wooden-headed stupidity of Bush and his followers became my baseline assumption for explaining and critiquing their actions. After I accepted that, I cannot think of a single thing they did in which my baseline assumption was shown to be wrong.
I suspect I'm not the only person who went through this process.
All I'm asking now is that in evaluating Obama's actions, we recollect that the presumption of criminal stupidity we had to apply to Bush was an historical aberration, not the norm.
However, since its now on-topic, I'd also ask that those who take Obama's side in the coming arguments (as opposed to attacking the critics for disloyalty) not be attacked for "trying to shut down debate," or dismissed as drooling cultists blinded by the light of Our Leader's genius. At this point, is it is not unreasonable to believe that there will usually be a discernable logic to their actions and discernable good intentions motivating those actions, just as was the case with the majority of past presidencies. Making that case shouldn't be grounds for attack, nor should the fact that it is supportive of the administration be germane to the merits of the argument.
I realize that the foregoing is, in itself, contrary to the baseline assumptions we built up over last eight years. We also got used to a endless parade of gooey-eyed delusional yahoos supportin' th' prezdint, no matter how staggeringly, facially wrong-headed his actions. And, indeed, while Republicans are especially prone to that kind of thing because of the party's inherently infantile attitudes about support and loyalty, being a Democrat does not immunize one from that kind of thinking (*cough*lannydavis*cough).
Nonetheless, if someone makes an adult argument that's supportive of Obama's actions or positions, I think the opponent does him or herself, and the community, an intellectual disservice if they dismiss that argument, or its proponent, solely because it is supportive (and contrawise, of course).
Finally, all that should be fairly non-controversial, but this won't be: sometimes Democrats--and especially leftists regardless of party affiliation--have a tendency to believe that all opposition and all criticism of all types and at all times and in all places is inherently and intrinsically good and valuable and constructive, simply of by virtue of being critical and oppositional. I don't mind those who treat this viewpoint as a rebuttable presumption, like the presumption of innocence in a criminal matter. However, I have a big problem with it when the critic elevates that presumption to the level of dogma. People who do that are basically granting themselves an unlimited license to do anything and say anything regardless of foreseeable or actual consequences. (Just to provide an example, hardcore Nadarites who are still unrepentant about his active campaigning in swing states in 2000 are adherents to this dogma.)
All I'm asking is that, when people are about to go to the edge, they actually make a considered judgment--i.e. consider the matter and make an individualized judgment--about whether a piece of criticism is, in fact, constructive and, if not, whether there is nonetheless some compelling need for destructive criticism that outweighs the likely damage. And if you can't do that, well, nihilism and anarchy are not without value in a democracy, but if that's what you are, at least be honest with yourself and others about where your coming from.
January 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Steve,
Sorry brother. My comment above was not actually directed at you. It was from another thread from a few days ago. I was only pointing out the similarities between it and the one you posted from Josh. That's all. Sorry for the confusion.
Peace.
January 12, 2009 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, it created an opportunity to dump in some stuff I cut from the main post because it was tangential, so I'm totally okay with it.
January 12, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You've mentioned in passing that lefties, liberals, progressives...whatever label one chooses...behave very much like faculty members. And this statement very much applies. Can't think of a substantive criticism, because a) you literally can't think of one or b) you didn't spend any intellectual calories on the issue in question? No problem. Bring up a minor detail and nag it to death. Brook no disagreement. And then, when that still doesn't work, start making statements about the particular disciplines that those who dare disagree with you are from. "In the physical sciences, that's just not how we do things...blah, blah, blah" infinitum.
There's a balance between knee-jerk, mindless obstruction, and reasoned criticism. We have trouble finding it in the academic world (at least in my experience), and I'm having trouble navigating that line when it comes to the incoming Obama Administration.
I've heard far too many commenters advise us that we should relax, and just enjoy the sheer genius that is Obama. And many commenters who seem unable to appreciate that he's not Bush, or Clinton, either. I'm still figuring out where I am, but I'll be sure to think of the behavior of some of my colleagues when I hop in to comment.
Thanks for the post.
January 12, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with this comment, for the most part, but wailing from the rafters over ever blip that doesn't meet a check-list of liberal orthodoxy isn't any smarter than offering no criticism at all.
I think we need to find a way to offer criticism and feedback in a way the promotes understanding and lowers barriers to change. There really is a tone difference that can be heard when someone is in preaching mode versus feedback mode.
I'm just saying.
January 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Jason. This isn't aimed at you personally, but I think one useful thing we could do is knock down the fairly common, almost automatic, use of terms like "Whining" and "knee-jerk" and "childlike" when arguing with the "progressives;" and "Kool-aid" and "cult-like" when we argue with center/right/moderate types.
They're handy shorthand, but really destructive of conversation. People MAY actually be whiners, or true-believers, or whatever... but for the 90% (or 10%!) who aren't, it just raises the blood pressure & makes digging further impossible.
January 12, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got my point exactly. We really are in the process of creating a new lexicon to replace the one that has keep us down for so long, so there are apt to be bumps in the road along the way.
I am trying, for my part, to concentrate on critiquing the idea put forth vice the tone in which it was delivered. This presents a a particular challenge with certain people, but even the most intractable "warriors" are beginning to moderate their tone if not their message.
I think we are all in new territory these days.
January 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good post. Reccomended. "Foot in the door" salesmanship instead of "door in the face." I would say more, but I have been too grouchy (asshole to be peefectly honest) lately.
January 11, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not a question of your style or content Z, it's the anatomy.
e.g. "Asshole to be peefectly honest."
I'd double-check the wiring.
January 12, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice post Steve. It is too true that we've become acclimated to having a prez we're smarter than. And as Josh has said, holding one's tongue makes no sense, and is unethical to boot. It may take a while till the first point settles firmly into my cognition.
January 11, 2009 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, golly gee, if these economists were so great, I sure missed it in the previous 20 years. Weren't these the same folks who promised us all sales in the billions in India and China if we just gave up our nasty blue-collar jobs?
I think we are in a time like the Great Depression where ideas are tossed out to see if they stick. FDR certainly experimented with things and shook up conservatives to the nth degree. I think the same sort of person is close to being in charge. A pragmatist.
I remain highly skeptical of Congress and of our media pundits. Their track record is not really great, now is it?
And I'm just a tad concerned about local and state officials lining up "projects" after reading the local "plans for the expected money" and hearing at least one memorable interview where a local mayor revealed a firm belief in the need for complete and total gentrification of our streetscape--while thoroughly ignoring simplier ideas like bumping up the funding for weatherization of low-income housing.
Obama's plans of a tax credit for new jobs would be of use to the innovative business owners that we never lose but who won't be funded by mayors and governors. And who's to say that individuals getting a payroll tax break of an income tax break won't do more to keep the retail workers employed that our favorite Congress folk? Public works are great--but who is throwing out the really great ideas here? I certainly haven't read of many from the critics.
Perhaps it's just ideology, Former, but I think we just need to spread things around more. None of us--or even these economists--have a fix on what will work--we're just throwing stuff against a wall to see what will stick. It's the same thing FDR did--and the times are different so we can't just go back to a Great Depression blueprint.
If there are good ideas (and I've read a couple) coming out of Congress then I want them to bubble up and stick to this bill. But I also want the usual suspects who fund highway contractors and land developers with great zeal to damned well back off. I just don't think we need more highways and more suburban development right now. We need better ideas.
And the whining I've been reading for some time now has few ideas but a lot of fear and whining. It's annoying and extremely unhelpful.
My two cents.
January 11, 2009 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm hearing the same thing on infrastructure, cube3u. A lot of proposals are being dusted off for "infrastructure" expansion - if by that you mean providing "services" to new sub-divisions. More of the same, and the ones with the worst cost-benefit to boot.
We need to get off the stick, pay attention, and most of all, bring forward the positive ideas.
FDR didn't get his out of thin air.
January 12, 2009 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are those of us who are reminding people what infrastructure really is. (And I'm not talking about on TPM.)
January 12, 2009 2:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Simple start of ideas:
a) rail system, both local (light) and longer to replace airplanes.
b) rail system, heavy for goods transportation
c) renew our harbors which will once again be used for commerce not for condos
d) huge subsidize for local industry, we need to end the big box era which will shut down with increasing energy costs
e) energy infrastructure, renew hydroelectric as a start and start making the grid smaller
f) subsidize (or something like it) to encourage farmers not to sell of their land to developers. Too much of our good land is already bulldozed under, now is not the time to finish off the ag industry.
The good news is that centralized society is over (the cost of transportation, etc. will increase the costs of goods and local goods will become more competitive again). As a result, things will be more local -- and these are jobs that can't be shipped out.
There are other issues on the table (like rethinking water usage, build up our manufacturing capability), but this is a specific list that attacks our present situation.
January 12, 2009 2:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
All that's good, and the critique of feeding suburban sprawl is valid, but we've also got a terrifyingly large backlog of critical maintenency progjects. Specifically, we've got a huge number of bridges and skyways that Ike built that are on the verge of collapse because, politically, new pavement looks like progress, while keeping the old stuff in repair is boring and largely invisable. Money spent on those projects is as good as money spent on new pavement, or new rail, or new anything else, in terms of both immediate stimulus and long term economic recovery.
Every in the DOT of every state, the engineers have a list of such projects that they've specced and that are ready to be put up for immediate bids. Those projects should be given priority for a number of reasons--because they need doing, because they're ready to roll and because we may never have the political opportunity and will to fund them again, unless and until we have string of disasters. What concerns me is that in many regions, there's probably too much work chasing too few contractors.
But then again, a little inflationary pressure might not be a terrible thing either, if the dire warnings about a possible deflationary spiral are to be taken seriously.
January 12, 2009 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I appreciate that these "ready to go" projects can exist and I agree that a portion of the stimulus bill should be devoted to them. I question strongly that ALL of this money should go to these projects because all it will stimulate is heavy construction work. I want the money spread around as I indicated above.
I'm getting concerned that Congress--backed by the construction corporations are pushing the highway and bridge projects to the exclusion of other projects by insinuations that these other projects won't stimulate the economy. These companies as well as land developers have deep pockets and I highly suspect too much influence in Congress.
I also question that our "service economy" folks are going to be driving the backhoes anytime soon so let's try to provide money to other stimulus efforts that individuals and small business owners can use.
The push for highway projects sounds very "old school" to me.
January 12, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many of these are "ready to go" which is what this bill is about?
January 12, 2009 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post Steve. But keep in mind each and every one of these people has to face the voters in 2010 and anyone who votes for this bill may be punished, especially if things get worse. And things will get worse. Even Obama says so. And he also says he wants everybody to have skin the game. Not just because it helps us all focus on solutions and buy in to the final plan but because he doesn't want his administration to be demagogued to death as a failure by 2010. There's very real risks involved here. No one has tried stimulus on a such a large scale before. It'll likely to take years to work our way out of this mess and we'll still be in the middle of it in 2010.
He wants as much of congress on board as he can get because he needs to dull the attack that Republicans will surely use.
January 12, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink