« The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month | The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve's Blog | Spitless »

Penny Says "Save the 'A List Talent!'"


Today, over at Huffpo, "serial entrepreneur and second time CEO" Penny Herscher, took it upon herself to patiently explain to the teeming, huddled masses why it is that our friends on Wall Street need their bonues, even if they have to be paid by us simple taxpayers. 

Wall Street will be facing a talent retention challenge very shortly unless the bonus issue is elegantly handled this year.

Over the past week the news has been full of "outrage" and questions about whether bankers should get their bonuses this year. Talk of large chunks of the bailout going to top bankers and class-warfare type language.

But unfortunately this problem is not as simple as the government, or the "public" controlling the pay of an industry they don't understand. I'm a pretty hard-core democrat and yet when I hear talk of the US taxpayer wanting zero bonuses on Wall Street this year -- per a Bloomberg article today -- it concerns me that the public doesn't understand how talent works.

Our best companies are very, very competitive. In all but a very few rare cases, a company is only as good as it's people. And companies, like fish, rot from the head. It's a common adage in my world that A players hire A players and B players hire B and C players. Talent is everything. So, in the competitive world of banking it is essential for the long term health of our institutions that they keep the talent, within the institution if at all possible, and definitely within the country. Our best deal-makers will go where the money is and that had better be in the United States and at the institutions that make our financial systems work.

So while I understand that taking public money and using it to pay bonuses may be optically obscene -- and it is certainly a good idea for the very top management of the institutions to not take bonuses -- if that action is taken too far down there will be a negative backlash -- and the talent which is so critical to long term health will leave. There are too many other firms, and countries, that will be happy to hire them. 

My response was too long for HuffPo's comment system so I'm doing it here. 

Damn, Penny, condescending much? 

Boy was I naive.  I now see that I'm just a complete simpleton, and have so little ability to understand the mind-boggling complexities of personnel decisions in the super-duper complex banking arena, that I should just shut up and let your friends in the banking and investment business do whatever the hell they want with the taxpayers' money. 

Silly me.  I admit that I had this quaint notion that the point of a bonus was to reward success above and beyond what the company expected if people had merely done the job for which they'd been paid their salary.  I also had this misguided notion that another point of a bonus on top of base compensation was to give executives an incentive to try to improve the company's financial performance.  I even had some expectation that one of the criteria used to determine those bonuses would be (though I know I'm really taking crazy-talk, here), whether the employee's actions improved the intitution's long-term health. Indeed, I had actually mistakenly inferred from their use of the word "bonus" that the idea was to create a kind of participation in the company's risk that carried both a positive and a negative incentive to perform. 

Thank you for enlightening me, Penny.  I now see that "bonus" really means "chuck of salary paid out in a gigantic lump sum regardless of whether the employee's efforts helped the company to soar or to punch a gigantic smoking hole into the ground." 

Here's why we naive, child-like taxpayers are pissed, lady. 

You think you live in a world of complexities which you understand, but that are unfathomable to us common folk.  Got that.

We, on the other hand, think your "A Talent" paid Phil Gramm to pay Congress to allow them to engage in utterly incomprehensible parastic transactions with no adult supervision.  For years they, and their mouthpieces like Gramm and Alan Greenspan, assured us that they were all so smart--and therefore worth the mind-boggling amounts of money they were paying themselves--that they could comprend the complexities of these transactions, and accurately assess and manage the risks. 

In fact, however, hardly a goddamned one of them understood, or much cared, what they were doing.  They'd pick up the prospectus for a derivative that amounted to nothing more than a gambling contract on the outcome of an underlying transaction in which had no substantive interest and as they flipped through it, their understanding was limited to "blah, blah, blah, details, details, details, boring stuff, boring stuff, boring stuff, lawyer words, lawyer words, oh, here's what I was looking for--the part describing my vast management fees and commissions if I sell this to one of the funds the rubes are investing in through their 401(k)'s and pension funds." 

We think they're con artists, in other words and you're fronting for them. 

And at this point, now that their your pyramid scheme has met its inevitable end, they really don't have a whole fuck of a lot of credibility when they come to me and say, "hey, we 'A talent' people managed to wreck the economy so we need you to cover our losses and, on top of that, we want to reward ourselves with bonues for the fine job we've done of demolishing your 401(k), forcing you grandmother to postpone her retirement indefinitely, and forcing your kids to pay off the extra public debt you'll run up to keep us from having to trade our fantabulous apartments for a cardboard box on Skid Row and our trendy drinks in martini glasses for Ripple." 

Christ, you really do think we're dumb, don't you? 

Look, maybe Americans don't understand a lot of things they should, but they understand the basics of capitalism just fine.  They are steeped in it from toddler to teen, absorb it by osmosis throughout a succession of chores and summer jobs, are trained in it's principles in school and by life.  And they are smart enough to know that your "A Talent" people are not capitalists.  You want to privitize profit and socialize risk.  That's not capitalism.  That's not even socialism.  That's kleptocracy.  And we say not only "no," but "fuck, no!" 

If there's a company that's good enough to still be in a position to pay obscene bonues out of its own coffers (rather than mine), I suspect, or at least hope, they'll also be smart enough to recognize that all this brilliant fucking "talent" you're talking about are the people who destroyed the companies they're now seeking to leave because they might have to go without a bonus this year.  They are the people who are supposed to culled from the herd by the Darwinian lions of a functional capitalist economy.  We're not going to pay them to perpetuate the dysfunction they've purposfully built into our economy.  If we're going to have to reach into our pockets to cover the inevitable consequences of that dysfunction, we're by-God going to use the leverage that comes with that money to rid ourselves, and our economy, of the dysfunctionality. 

And, btw, if you're  thinking they can just take some of that taxpayer money and using it to buy Congress again, I'd suggest you take a look at both the revolution in campaign financing we just saw and the results of the last election, first.  I know the people in Congress are, and that corporate PAC money isn't looking quite as sweet to some of them as it used to.  The smart ones see the handwriting on the wall, and the dumb ones--i.e. the ones who think we're too dumb to pay attention any longer--will be culled from the herd in 2010.  (Hear that, Congress?  Democracy still has a little Darwin in the tank, too, in case the last three elections haven't made that clear to you yet.)


27 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

If criminals were smart they would make money honestly. Even allowing exceptions for the smart ones that don't get caught, this is essentially a sound statement. In Daniel Dennett's words, it's easier to be good than to seem good.

But there are those that think they are smart enough to make even more money by being dishonest, or rather by trying to compete without rules. So they buy Congress, like the protagonists in Sinclair's "Oil" or the participants in the Teapot Dome scandal. Unfortunately for them, getting what they want is the worst thing that can happen. It allows the overreach and eventual collapse the rules they circumvented were created to prevent.

When small boys get together to play, much time is spent arguing over rules, and whether things are fair. That's the norm. The violation is the bully who ignores the rules, and the selfish twit that wants to take the ball and go home. Wall Street is finding little sympathy anywhere, and should grow up and stop trying to get it.

user-pic

Good post...I was for the bailout, because watching the whole economy go under to punish these greedy people when average people would be the ones who really suffered seemed over the top. No where in my mind did I ever consider that the money would go to bonuses. I made the foolish error of thinking that people that just got rescued from oblivion would go forward with care, being respectful of their fellow citizens who just took on enormous debt to save their livelihoods. Silly me.

The arrogance just astonishes me. If this is the "A" team, I think it's time to bench them all and see what the "B" team can do. Oh, and BTW, in case they haven't noticed, I think the market for people with their skills of ruining companies is somewhat diminished these days.

user-pic

I'm not exactly quaking in my boots at the thought of these "A Team" bankers being lured away by other countries! Who would want their "talents?" Maybe they'll get some job offers in Iceland! And now the auto "A Team" execs all flew in on their private jets today.

I'm with you (and the theme of this whole post): bonuses should be a reward for a job well done. Period. What do we have to say about it though? Not much, it seems.

user-pic

Where would they go, anyway? Lehman Bros? WAMU? I can see that there is now a big market for these guys...LOL. Let the layoffs begin!

user-pic

They can join the A teams in Europe, where Swiss bank UBS as well as British bank Barclays recently announced that they would not issue executive bonuses this year. Perhaps they should try France, (the highest paid executives in Europe), or Spain, where, a 2005 study by the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, showed that U.S. execs made 39 times more than the average factory worker. In contrast, French CEOs made 23 times more and the ratio in Spain was 17 to 1.

user-pic

They can join the A teams in Europe, where Swiss bank UBS as well as British bank Barclays recently announced that they would not issue executive bonuses this year. Perhaps they should try France, (the highest paid executives in Europe), or Spain, where, a 2005 study by the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, showed that U.S. execs made 39 times more than the average factory worker. In contrast, French CEOs made 23 times more and the ratio in Spain was 17 to 1.

user-pic

Wow! Did you hear that echo!?

user-pic

One silver lining in the very dark cloud of the fiscal crisis is the promise of a reallocation of talent. Over the past decade, many of our brightest and best-educated young people, particularly the quantitatively inclined, were lured by the vast riches of Wall Street. So electrical engineering majors went to work as financial engineers, and students of quantitative genetics put their training to work for quant funds. It was a classic bubble - a talent bubble - fueled by distorted incentives (bonuses based upon largely-illusory profits).

Now, we're seeing a market correction. And like most corrections, it's proving to be incredibly painful. Hundreds of thousands of workers in the financial services industry are going to lose their jobs, through no fault of their own. Naturally, those hit hardest are pleading for help. But the reason that pay packages are being trimmed is that they represented an incredibly inefficient allocation of resources. Herscher is absolutely correct; financial firms are hemorrhaging talent, and the bleeding is only likely to worsen.

But in the long term, that's desirable. Let's put our most privileged and talented young people back to work producing genuine innovation, so that they can create real economic gains. I'm sure that this bubble will be followed by another. But here's the thing. The tech bubble burst, painfully, but left us with the internet economy, boosting productivity and improving lives. I suspect the biotech industry is forming its own bubble, which will also burst. But when it does, it will leave behind cures and treatments for dreadful diseases. The financial services bubble has burst, and it has left behind only destruction. The losses of the past few months have wiped out the profits of the past decade. Our economy is less robust and stable than it was before the latest round of financial innovation. We've increased risk through instruments designed to reduce it. Nothing good came of this bubble; but there's reason to hope that as talent flees the financial services industry for productive economic sectors, something better will be left behind by the next one.

user-pic

This comment is worth its own post.

I've been in a case or two involving these people and I was struck by two things. The first was the profound misallocation of talent of which you speak. Many of them were overpaid mediocrities, but others were brilliant, talented people who had been pulled into an industry segment that added no actual value. It was clear that only a profound distortion of normal market forces could create a situation like that--indeed, by defintion, that's what was happening. The second thing that struck me was that, to a man or woman, they all had a vast sense of entitlement that, to me, anway, looked an awful like rationalization of their inner knowledge that they were getting paid obscene amounts of money for, at best, adding nothing of value or, in many cases, doing positive harm.

user-pic
So electrical engineering majors went to work as financial engineers, and students of quantitative genetics put their training to work for quant funds.

I'll catch hell for disagreeing with you, but this really isn't true.

The people who are the most talented typically have a passion for a discipline. Our most talented science/engineering folks still went into science/engineering.

People who are driven by money left engineering long ago (the 1970s). Anyone in tech school knows that you need to get an MBA to make money and the large industrial labs of yore (AT&T, Ford, IBM, GE, etc) -- with the exceptions of a few places like Google -- went the way of the dodo in the 1990s. There's no way to advance money-wise by staying on a technical track. All engineers know this and adjust career expectations.

The best a techie can hope for is (a) faculty position leading to prestige and private consulting or (b) become an entrepreneur. Our system is already glutted with faculty and entrepreneurial exercises are tightening, not loosening, with the current fiscal crisis. (Many VCs saw better return from investing in China anyway).

There are already herds of engineers in the 30s-50s who are very nervous about their future -- many of whom are looking for jobs.

Our talent pool is already out there and zeroing out a banking option doesn't really change much.

Smart people who are entering the college system know to stay away from tech jobs unless it is their passion already -- in which case the financial collapse doesn't change where they direct their talent. These smart people looking for money already know to go to law and/or entertainment for the money. And this has already been the case since the mid-80s.

No silver lining at all, Fly, at least not as you proposed.

user-pic

This is good stuff, Fly. You should give us more in a post.

user-pic

In case you haven't seen this Michale Lewis commentary, it's a pretty clear indication that wall street denizens and those MBA wunderkinder really aren't all that smart. In fact, many of them are just plain stupid.

user-pic

Thanks. I fondly remember his rants in his column for the New York Observer back in the late Reagan era. Sometimes they were over the top, but you always got good insider type analysis from him.

Remember the whole buy out king fever, Millken, the age of proud excess, et. al.? I think some young people who weren't around then get their view of the era from Tom Wolfe's "greed is good" Gordon Gekko, but that doesn't really give the zeitgeist of the financial situation then in enough detail to get it accurately, my opinion--I recommend "Barbarians at the Gate" fot that, if not the book, then the TV movie. An aside, I just saw someone refer to HuffPo, then I came here, reminded me that back in those days, Ariana Huffington was very busy trying to work herself in with the whole "greed is good" buy-out king crowd.

user-pic

That's an amazing article. Thanks for the link.

user-pic

Thanks for this analysis.

My suggestion for bailout is to require all the boards of directors & insider-level executives refund all compensation they received for the last 3 years. The need for bailout is evidence that they are not "A-list talent" The do not merit orders of magnitude more compensation than the average line worker.

user-pic

In an earlier career I got to investigate and prosecute some of the perpetrators of the S&L deregulation fallout. It was amazing to me how about one half of the "investment bankers" who sold the promises of repos and reverse repos (forerunners to the more? sophisticated modern "hedge funds) to the real banking world began their sales careers and honed their skills selling used cars.

Greed and living in financial industry cocoons will trump Ivy League degrees, experience and "A" talent almost every time.

Let the reallocation of talent begin.....

user-pic

Or, in many cases, the cardboard box and Ripple option would suit me just fine.

user-pic

Scary that Penny Herscher, a "second-time CEO," seems not to know she is advocating bribery, a gift bestowed to influence the recipient's conduct.

user-pic

And the ones expecting the payoff are using extortion!

user-pic

Nicely said, Gasket.
And NCSteve could not have said it any better when he offered us his opinion that: "You want to privitize profit and socialize risk. That's not capitalism. That's not even socialism. That's kleptocracy."
And TheraP was also right on the money (no pun intended) when she said: "And the ones expecting the payoff are using extortion!"

user-pic

What a great rant, Steve! And you could do another on how HuffPo prevents long comments! I once the took the time and trouble to do one there and of course it was rejected as "too long." And the post deserved a long and detailed rebuttal too. But no... their software allows a long draft and then rejects it!

Yes, you've uncovered the basic scam here. And not only is it a scam to get the bonus to start with, they are practically mugging the taxpayer this year, using a clever gangster strategy by saying they'll leave if we don't give the bonus! Leave? Be my guest! I loved your judicious and most appropriate use of profanity. The post would have been sorely lacking without it.

If this behavior wasn't so outrageous, it would be comical!

user-pic

Here's a link to a NYT op ed, ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/opinion/20ariely.html?_r=1&ref=opinion), from Wednesday's edition wherein they performed several tests with 'bonuses' offered for correct execution of the tasks to be performed. The results were reproduced in all the tests. The subjects were offered a small, medium, or large bonus for executing the tasks. The results:

"We replicated these results in a study at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where undergraduate students were offered the chance to earn a high bonus ($600) or a lower one ($60) by performing one task that called for some cognitive skill (adding numbers) and another one that required only a mechanical skill (tapping a key as fast as possible). We found that as long as the task involved only mechanical skill, bonuses worked as would be expected: the higher the pay, the better the performance. But when we included a task that required even rudimentary cognitive skill, the outcome was the same as in the India study: the offer of a higher bonus led to poorer performance."

The conclusion: "If our tests mimic the real world, then higher bonuses may not only cost employers more but also discourage executives from working to the best of their ability."

Go figure...

user-pic

You beat me to the punch! I was just reading the article while waiting for my bonus...er.. tea to brew.

Isn't it lovely when people have already gone and tested an idea?

One more myth falls!

They've done similar research related to creativity. And found that paying for it reduces the "output." People are creative merely for the pleasure of creating.

After all, right here at TPM, we bloggers toil - for free!

user-pic
Isn't it lovely when people have already gone and tested an idea?

It would be lovely if the test were better so it could actually prove somehting. One obvious flaw in this study: using a homogeneous population of undergraduate students at a very selective admissions place like MIT to project generalized results.

A much better study would be to mix (a) genders (b) IQs (or whatever cognitive metric you wish) (c) age and (d) economic background (poor/wealthy, etc.)

user-pic

From the article:

"We did this study in India...We replicated these results in a study at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."

user-pic

Yes, we are still talking about homogeneous populations. Why college age students? Why students in college?

Good studies of this sort mix together all kinds of regions, etc. At very least: age/economic background/intelligence/etc.

At the level it is described, it is a poor experiment and it's determination means little (unless it comes to a conclusion you were pre-inclined to accept). There isn't even a link, or a mention of the original peer-reviewed paper describing the study, it's methods, and it's results.

user-pic

PS It's okay to link to my post when responding to me. Really. Trying to digitally ostracize me is hardly in line with your proclaimed views of openness, etc. As I stated before, TheraP, it's classic passive aggressiveness. Ah, well. You are the therapist, after all...

Leave a comment

The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

user-pic

Following: 1
Followers: 35

Posts
Comments & Recommends


Favorites

All Reader Posts
How to use myTPM

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address