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Republican-orchestated Town-Hall Chaos.
Early this year in the early phases of the develpoment of the so-called Tea Parties across the US I predicted that they would soon turn out to be nothing but a bunch of defeated and frustrated as well as delusional Republican malcontents drawn from the fringe which has become the mainstream in the Republican Party. The same crowd of the Sarah Palin rallies that spewed racial epithets and threatening to kill the then-candidate Barack Obama. Some are drawn from the Ron Paul fanatics---the self-styled Republican libertarian. The rowdiness and race-baiting that took place in those rallies is now being replicated by the same crowd in the form of chaos and rowdiness in the Town Halls across the nation inspired and orchestrated by the Republican/conservative Talk Radio hosts who preach hate and violence against the Democratic establishment day in and day out. Democrats will have to find a way of fighting back, but within the ambit of the law. They will have to kick these chaotic crowds out of the Town Halls as soon as they are identified. That means Democrats will have to enlist strong-armed men to drag these thugs out. What these Republican thugs are doing is far from being a function of Freedom of Speech. It is in fact an undemocratic act with far-reaching authoritanian implications.
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I will not rec this post.
Violence begets violence. Now is the time to remember Thoreau, Gandhi and King. They showed up and won.
August 8, 2009 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree with ripper. Let the fools be fools, the curtain has dropped to expose them for what they are, zombies of liars and demagogues.
August 8, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
We don't need Ghandi, We need Jefferson
Quotes of Thomas Jefferson
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
We are not to expect to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed.
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Every generation needs a new revolution
For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
One man with courage is a majority.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson
Put strong men at the door; Show the disruptors we are prepared.
When the goons of employers were beating the labor movement; lives were lost.
When labor fought back, we got labor reform.
August 9, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jefferson helped instigate a bloody revolution.
Ironic that you want blood spilled in pursuit of health care. I think some of our trolls have stopped lurking.
August 9, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that a calm and peaceful strength is needed in this circumstance.
But I must say that Resistance chose one of my favorite Jefferson quotes, "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations...". Therein lies the crux of our problems.
August 9, 2009 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jefferson didn't instigate the rebellion, The king of England thought so little of his subjects.
To throw off the yoke of English profiteers, the American people of Jefferson’s day had to resist.
To fight off the insurance profiteers, the people need to fight the cozy relationship of monied interests and the self serving, so called Representative government. Representatives loving the money that supports their candidacies over doing what is best for the people?
The American working class; Fighting not only the insurance companies, powerful lobbyists, but also have to fight off, the knuckle draggers, who blindly follow the protectors; the voices of the powerful lobbyists able to buy airtime. Fighting knuckle draggers who know not what they are doing, against they're own self-interest.
Fighting a two front war is not easy, fighting powerful interests and illiteracy.
'Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."
Thomas Jefferson
Insurance company merchants, don't care for anything but they're bottom line.
Sarah Palin did you not know, Insurance companies decide whether your child lives or dies, whether you'll get benefits or not.
August 9, 2009 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ripper, I think the point is to stand up to them, not necessarily to go batshit with violence. I have to agree. These blockheads, if allowed to run amok, will only grow bolder. Letting them make fools of themselves in the eyes of much of the public will have no impact on them because it doesn't matter to them. They must be met with resistance that is clear and unambiguous. And besides, sometimes you have to do things you'd rather not in order to forestall an even worse set of circumstances.
August 9, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, you're playing into their hands - that's exactly what they want us to do. Perhaps a different approach is in order.
What about having our esteem Representatives and Senators who were ambushed by these thugs petition the DoJ to investigate if these thugs were engaging in censorship tactics to keep both the speaker and other participants from engaging in their constitutional right to free speech and assembly. That their disruptive tactics were solely aimed at censorship, not public participation, so as to deny speakers and other participants from exchanging points of view necessary for the representative to understand so as to pass legislation that is clearly understood by the public and serves their needs.
Then again, there's always The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 the bill sponsored by Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA)in the 110th United States Congress that could be brought into play. It passed the House with 404 out of 435, was held up in the Senate and died, but can always be brought back with a new name. And since Democrats have majorities in both House and Senate, it would breeze thru the Halls of Congress this time.
Here's a preview of the bill:
`SEC. 899B. FINDINGS.
`The Congress finds the following:
`(1) The development and implementation of methods and processes that can be utilized to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States is critical to combating domestic terrorism.
`(2) The promotion of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence exists in the United States and poses a threat to homeland security.
`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.
`(4) While the United States must continue its vigilant efforts to combat international terrorism, it must also strengthen efforts to combat the threat posed by homegrown terrorists based and operating within the United States.
`(5) Understanding the motivational factors that lead to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence is a vital step toward eradicating these threats in the United States.
`(6) The potential rise of self radicalized, unaffiliated terrorists domestically cannot be easily prevented through traditional Federal intelligence or law enforcement efforts, and requires the incorporation of State and local solutions.
`(7) Individuals prone to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence span all races, ethnicities, and religious beliefs, and individuals should not be targeted based solely on race, ethnicity, or religion.
`(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights and civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.
I think it would bring the rethugery side of the GOP to a screeching halt and the rest of us could get back to what's more important in life.
August 9, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go bait somewhere else.
August 8, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fighting back is what they want. Here in Missouri they went to great lengths to bait pro-reform people. Then when someone from a union got mad & punched a man...it became an internet sensation. OBAMA GOONS ATTACK! UNIONS HATE THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
Now they are advocating bringing guns to town hall meetings to "protect" their first amendment rights. Your approach plays right into their hands.
Much better to stand back and let them scream. Then work twice as hard to convince your neighbors that reform is a necessity. Talk to them about what reform will do for them...especially if they are currently insured.
Let EVERYONE watch the protestors go nuts on TV. Let them watch the screaming & the shouting. It helps remind people how crazy they are. Their own actions marginalize their message. (How much good did CODE PINK protests actually do? Their actions marginalized their message as well.)
August 8, 2009 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps the strong armed men referred to could be the police. These people will start bringing their guns either way nemokc. If you don't stand up to them in some fashion they will only take that as weakness and keep coming at you. Exposing them as wackos is not enough.
August 9, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I originally rec'd this post because I agree with the rant behind it. I do NOT agree with strong-arm tactics from OUR side. I just wanted to clarify that.
I guess I rec'd too fast on this one.
August 8, 2009 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a good message, just in the wrong direction.
August 9, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
No armed combat
but something must be done
August 8, 2009 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
dd, I hope you mean no use of force whatsoever, least of all armed.
August 8, 2009 11:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
and regarding something must be done, yes, it must: Outnumbering them at the town halls is the only way to ensure non-violence, positive media coverage and sufficient political pressure for reform.
August 8, 2009 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Numbers count. It will intimidate them.
August 9, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Mano a mano" is out of the question, in my book.
August 9, 2009 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
The response has to be made by our elected officials on behalf of those citizens who are there at the town halls who are acting in good faith within the system.
Where you have persons laying ridiculous charges and bogus claims requires a strong rhetorical stance refuting such nonsense. Our reps have to take the lead on trying to retain the integrity of the system. The false claims and the like that have become derigeur in our system are the very ones at the root of the ethical corruption of our government. There is never a right time for a spineless response to lies and misinformation.
This nation, our laws and our constitution are hugely dependent upon an honest presentation in the public dialog. This is an obvious dependency that is being subverted by persons who have no compunction at all against telling whopper lies to an unwary public. We must stand willing to challenge bullshit when ever and where ever it happens.
At the same time we must learn patience with the uninformed and stupid among us and try as best we can to educate them. The uninformed and stupid are an even bigger problem than the liars.
August 9, 2009 3:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"You can't fix stupid." - Ron White
August 9, 2009 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Having some "strong-arm" tactics by union members or anyone else in support of health care reform is the Republicans' greatest fantasy. They would be ecstatic to see this happen and you can guarantee that video would be all over the television networks of this happening. The US media would act as if it were the Tiananmen Square massacre. Nonviolence is incredibly important. Just show up in sufficient numbers and the anti-health care thugs will back down, this has been proven time and again around the country during this controversy.
August 9, 2009 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
You do NOT stop violence by using agressive tactics . . .
That is the exact action that certain key people who are the organizers within the their groups are looking for that are interrupting these townhalls . There are usually no more that a few key organizers within their numbers that incite the majority that show up.
DO NOT physically touch anyone, nor their signs, nor get in a face to face screaming match with any of them.
Keep a safe distance if at all possible.
~OGD~
August 9, 2009 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Word. I know from experience.
August 9, 2009 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
"That means Democrats will have to enlist strong-armed men to drag these thugs out."
I'll add my voice to others who are rejecting this statement. What this author is advocating with this statement is simply the WRONG THING TO DO. It just won't work--and, IMHO, is morally wrong.
You can stand up in more useful ways. All of us should register our support with our Representative and with our Senator. Do it by phone, by e-mail, by fax, or by snail mail.
For those of us with a calmer temper who can handle the "in your face" aggression that will be present at the rallies and meetings, then show up and be counted there. Expect aggression and stay completely calm and non-provoking. This will be extremely challenging.
Remember, our Congress critters need your support. Do what your can in a calm way.
August 9, 2009 8:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
In this instance, no need for your opinion to be humble. You're right.
I still get tickled by the image of Vietnam anti-war hippies sticking flowers in the gun barrels of the National Guardsmen. Maybe there is some kind of similar gesture that could be used against the baggers, something to make them feel silly or embarassed. Pass out cookies? Offer to give them a 5 minute massage? Have your picture taken with one of them?
August 9, 2009 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe a teabag.
August 9, 2009 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Peace. Peace be with ALL.
August 9, 2009 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Un-effing-believable that this post has 67 recs. Something is rotten in Denmark.
August 9, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
how so?
August 9, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
From what I've read so far, everyone agrees with the concept, they just disagree with the method. Like I said earlier up top to LisaB - good message but wrong direction. Another way to see it, is there's 67 people who understand the need for action, but there is a discussion as to what that action should be so as not to draw us into the muck with them.
August 9, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
something or someone is diddling the rec's. LisB and FredMooten have both blogged on it.
August 9, 2009 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
These town hall agitators are beasts that prey on the sheep.
Sheep like people, who gather together in great numbers, are no match to wolf-like personalities.
Even a shepherd knows he needs to employ sheep dogs to defend the flock.
He needs slings and stones to scare off, would be attackers.
If our leaders, our shepherds are going to lead us, to better pastures; a good shepherd doesn’t leave us defenseless.
Protect us. Protect our right to gather peacefully. Defend us.
When these wolves realize the flock is well protected, they will be relegated to standing outside the perimeter.
August 9, 2009 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink