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My Book (Genesis of Values 1)


Those of you who follow me may know from my bio that I am writing a book on how and why value systems change in societies.  The book is called "The Genesis of Values", and I would like to set out some of its ideas in my blog, to get comments and reactions from readers.  I know that blog posts are usually very topical and meant to more or less stand alone, but I thought that readers might enjoy a chance to do something a bit different, which is grapple with some new theoretical ideas and help an aspiring author write his book.  So this is the first in what I hope will become a series of posts that lay out my theories on value systems, including political ones.

Posts on my book will have (GV) in the title, for Genesis of Values, so readers will be able to identify them, and will be numbered in the order they appear.  I will try to be diligent in responding quickly to comments, so that I can answer any reader questions, and discuss any issues that readers wish to raise.  I will also monitor the comments sections on GV posts after they drop off the listings, and respond to those as well, so that readers who wish to continue any discussions can do so.  Thank you all in advance for being my new editors!


Today I'd like to start by introducing a few basic ideas.  As a psychologist it's very natural for me to look to childhood influences as causes of psychological phenomena.  As a psychologist it's also very natural for me to think in terms of personality types that possess certain clusters of features, including personal values. 

Putting these two together, it would then be natural to think that values would be systematically influenced by personality, and personality systematically influenced by conditions during childhood, so the value systems of individuals would be influenced by conditions during their childhoods.  Psychologists routinely think in these terms concerning individuals, and I was very surprised when I found that other social scientists generally do not think in such terms concerning larger groups. 

The moment I started looking for correlations between changes in social and economic conditions and political changes a generation later, I found that they were everywhere.  The most obvious example is my own generation, which is the boomer generation born in the first two post-WWII decades.  This generation probably experienced one of the greatest improvements in conditions relative to its forebears that has ever been seen.  My generation grew up during a time of peace, prosperity, security, and optimism.  The prior generation, on the other hand, grew up during a terrible depression and a world war, a time of poverty, war, constant insecurity and fear of what the future might bring. 

The result of this, if childhood conditions influence personality and therefore values, should be a marked shift in value systems between these generations, and that is exactly what occurred.  As soon as members of my generation reached adulthood they began to challenge the norms that obtained in society, advocating for sexual freedom, resistance to authority, non-violence, rights for oppressed groups, and many other changes.  Also, this generational phenomenon was most definitely not confined to America, but occurred in the other advanced democracies at the same time as well. 

Of course this is not to say that everyone in the baby boom generation possessed this new value system, just as everyone in the prior generation did not possess the older one.  These phenomena are clearly statistical, which means that what changes is the likelihood and frequency of a particular value system under certain childhood conditions.  The baby boom generation had a distribution of value systems among its members that was noticeably different from its predecessor.

What this historical pattern clearly suggests is that hard times produce a more 'conservative' value system, while better times produce a more 'liberal' value system.  This is a reasonable first approximation.  Certainly, if we take a global-historical perspective, looking at societies around the world and throughout history, it is very obvious that affluence and prosperity are very highly correlated with more progressive value systems.  Before the Industrial Revolution most societies were hierarchical and authoritarian, organized around structures such as monarchy, aristocracy, serfdom, slavery, and the like.  Similarly, poorer societies around the world today are much less likely to be democratic, and more likely to violently oppress minorities, women, gays, and any other culturally disadvantaged group.

It is tempting to think of the pattern of history as being 'progressive', in the sense of things steadily getting better, or more 'progressive' over time, but this pattern also works in reverse.  Nazi Germany is an excellent example.  In 1933, when Hitler came to power to great popular acclaim, Germany went into a period of violence and hatred unrivalled among industrialized nations, with a regime far worse than similarly advanced countries.  What made Germany so different?  Many theories have been advanced, of course, but I would note that Germany had seen extremely hard times for almost a generation.  Since 1914, Germany had experienced the devastation of WWI, followed by the hyperinflation of the 1920s brought on by war reparations, and then the Great Depression.  In 1933, a 'hardened generation' began to come to maturity, that had only known very harsh times, pushing the polity toward violence and repression, and by 1939 this cohort that had only known hardship was large enough to push the country into war.  Of course other factors were at work as well, but I believe that the 'hardened generation' hypothesis at least partly accounts for Nazism and the Holocaust.  (I will discuss this particular example in much more detail in a later post.)

So, it definitely seems to be the case that there are some kinds of correlations between circumstances during early life and the resulting value systems of different age cohorts.  But how can these be investigated systematically?  There is a big problem with just saying 'more liberal' or 'more conservative' as a way of describing value systems, because these words cover very many types of issues and also mean very different things in different times and places.  When people say 'more liberal' for example, in the modern American political context, they would generally mean a value system that is more tolerant of sexual freedom, less tolerant of violence, less sympathetic to authority and more sympathetic to those who are subject to authority, more inclined to want government to help the poor, and so on.  When people say 'more conservative' in the same context, they would usually mean the opposite. 

My approach has been to take a few of these major components of different value systems and to track them both independently and as parts of value systems.  For instance, I take attitudes toward pleasure, including sexual, as one major component.  I take violence and authoritarianism together as a second component.  (I originally tracked these separately because I felt that they were distinct from each other, but I found that they are very tightly bound together, enough so to consider them jointly).

I consider attitudes toward economic issues to be another distinct component.  How the economic component fits in, however, will have to be deferred until later, because attitudes on economic issues are so strongly affected by self-interest, not just by personal feelings of rightness and wrongness.  Economic issues are a hugely important part of political value systems, but they are very complex to analyze and I'll have to deal with them in a later post.  

With that in mind, I'll provisionally define Liberal (with a capital L) as meaning a value system that has relatively tolerant attitudes toward pleasure while being relatively intolerant of violence and authoritarianism.  Conservative, in this essay, means the opposite.  When I use these words, capitalized, that's all I mean by them at this point.  Thus Liberals would favor gay rights and gun control, Conservatives the opposite.  Liberals would be less likely to spank and more likely to allow children to call them by their first names (less authoritarian), Conservatives would be the reverse.  Liberals would be more likely to be pro-peace, Conservatives more likely to be pro-war.  Many other political issues could also be easily classified as Liberal or Conservative by referring to the dimensions of attitudes toward pleasure and toward violence/authoritarianism. 

So Liberals and Conservatives are polar opposites on the dimensions of pleasure/sex and violence/authoritarianism, with each being relatively permissive on one dimension while being relatively restrictive on the other.  Are there other value systems besides these?  Of course there are, because many people do not neatly fit the definitions of Liberal or Conservative used here.  More importantly, if we again take a global-historical perspective, it can be seen pretty quickly there are and have been societies that have value systems that cannot be classified as Liberal or Conservative.  What about these?

Using the analysis of different dimensions of value systems shows that there is actually a third major value system of global and historical significance, one that has never been precisely defined and named.  I call this value system Preconservative.  Preconservatives are relatively permissive and tolerant toward both pleasure/sex and violence/authoritarianism.  This is a value system that crops up in many different places, including many undeveloped authoritarian societies, including feudal aristocracies in earlier centuries.  It also occurs among privileged elites in wealthy societies today. 

In my book I try to explain the idea of Preconservatism by discussing a range of cultural practices from such societies, but in this post I'd like to do something different that I hope readers won't find frivolous.  A really perfect example of the Preconservative value system is actually the title character from the movie Borat, by Sascha Baron Cohen.  In this movie, Cohen pretends to be Borat, a man from a very poor village in Kazakhstan, who has come to America to meet people and interview them.  Borat introduces himself to unsuspecting Americans and films his interactions with them, which are hilarious. 

The humor in the movie comes from Borat's behavior, which is absolutely outrageous.  He attends a genteel Southern dinner party and blithely invites a prostitute, takes drivers ed and starts drinking hard liquor behind the wheel, offering some to the instructor, makes unbelievably sexist remarks to feminists, talks about the importance of killing Uzbeks to liberals, and so on.  Borat is an equal-opportunity offender, possessed of a value system guaranteed to astonish and insult both liberals and conservatives alike.  (Of course, the biggest insult was to poor, Preconservative Kazakhstan, which did not find the movie funny at all.)

In structural terms, what makes the movie work is that a Preconservative can offend Conservatives by his acceptance of sexuality and Liberals by his acceptance of violence, because Preconservatives are fine with both.  What makes the movie even funnier is that Cohen plays Borat as an earnest, sincere, guy who is completely unaware of his offensiveness and just wants to be friends with Americans. 

Before returning to Preconservatism, I have to make a general point about value systems, which is that they have things that they value, such as specific virtues.  The primary virtues valued by Liberals, I would argue, are things like compassion, empathy, nurturance and other qualities related to loving and caring for others.  The primary virtues valued by Conservatives, on the other hand, would be things like self-discipline, self-denial, self-sacrifice, and other virtues related to control of one's desires and impulses.  (Of course, both groups would also value each other's primary virtues as well, but the emphasis and degree would differ.) 

Preconservatism also has primary virtues, and these are in the area of power, strength, and dominance for those in the elite, and obedience and submission for those who are not.  This is shown in Borat as well, when he enters a room and goes into an elaborate kissing ritual with the men in the room, while completely ignoring the women.  Here he is demonstrating deference to people of higher status and disregard for those of lower status, which is also typical of Preconservatism (remember that violence and authoritarianism go together).

Moving away from Borat, this Preconservative trinity of pleasure, violence, and authoritarianism can be seen quite often.  The Roman Empire was of course famous for it, with its orgies, and its circuses in which people were torn to shreds.  Aristocracies throughout history have often been this way.  Feudal lords had sexual rights with their serfs, were the ones who were expected to do battle in war, and of course had complete authority in their domains. 

Preconservatism is ultimately a product of the psychology of dominance and submission.  The psychology of dominance is that dominant individuals do as they please and should be admired for their dominance and obeyed.  The psychology of submission is that voluntary submissiveness is honorable and should be rewarded.  (By the way, the word 'islam' is Arabic for 'submission'.) 

Preconservatism will be most prevalent under conditions of scarcity and poverty, for reasons determined by evolutionary psychology, which will be explained in a later post.  Its most fundamental characteristic, however, is its association with attitudes of dominance and submission.  It exists, therefore, wherever people lead lives of dominance, which includes both primitive societies and also includes the elites of modern-day societies.  Many economic conservatives in America today are Elite Preconservatives in my classification of value systems, because they are tolerant of both sex/pleasure and violence/authoritarianism and operate according to attitudes of dominance, with its resulting reduction of empathy.

In the philosophy of science theories are classified in a hierarchy according to whether they are descriptive, explanatory, or predictive.  My theory of value systems is all three, but we are still in the descriptive part, because objects of study need to be precisely described and classified before they can be explained and then predicted.  Having described and classified value systems according to certain of their components, the next step is to describe when and where they occur. 

In Western societies the historical pattern has been to move from a Preconservative stage, to a Conservative stage, and ultimately to a Liberal stage (I call this the Western Trajectory).  These transitions, however, are not automatic, but depend on continued economic progress.  It is very important to note that this means quite different patterns of progress regarding violence/authoritarianism versus pleasure/sex.  Violence/authoritarianism goes (roughly) from high to medium to low as societies move from Preconservative to Conservative to Liberal, while restrictions on pleasure/sex go (again, roughly) from medium to high to low.  Restrictions on pleasure/sex actually increase during the early stages of social/economic progress. 

The most obvious example of this pattern is Great Britain.  In its Preconservative stage it was a monarchy, its transformation to Conservatism began with the Protestant Reformation and culminated in the Victorian era, and it eventually became a Liberal society during the 20th century. I'll save the details for a later post. 

Readers at tpmcafe are most interested in American politics, and America has shown this historical pattern also, with some differences.  Colonial America began, of course, as a transplant society from Great Britain, and the northern and southern colonies were quite different.  The northern colonies were quite clearly Conservative in their value system, in fact extremely so, with the Puritans actually classified as Early Conservative in my system.  (Early Conservative societies are impoverished, very repressive and, well, puritanical.  Iran and the Taliban would also be in this category.)  The south, however, was just as clearly Preconservative.  It was hierarchical, authoritarian, and violent, but not Puritanical.  (In fact, a gracious, genteel, aristocratic-type lifestyle was the ideal.)  Slavery, of course, like serfdom, is a mark of Preconservatism. 

As America progressed economically, the north progressed socially from Early Conservative to Late Conservative. Late Conservatives tend to be political activists, as first demonstrated in Great Britain, where Late Conservatives abolished the slave trade and worked to help the poor while at the same time crusading against vice.  The Late Conservative period in the American north is what we now call the Progressive Era.  We tend to think of this as an early form of present-day liberal values, but the Progressives actually had more in common with present-day religious Conservatives.  They wanted to abolish Preconservative injustices such as slavery, but also favored Prohibition and strict laws against pornography, prostitution, and vice in general.  As the north continued to make economic progress during the 20th century, it eventually moved from Late Conservative to Liberal in that century's latter decades. 

The south has followed this classic trajectory also, but with an enormous delay.  It began with a Preconservative system and regressed instead of making progress during the 19th century because of the Civil War and Reconstruction.  In fact, it didn't start to move out of its Preconservative value system until after WWII.  People of my generation and older remember the tremendous resistance to equal civil rights for blacks, which is indication of thinking conditioned by attitudes of dominance, the hallmark of Preconservatism.  The south has progressed greatly since then on those issues, and is now in a Late Conservative stage.  (Societies can and often do skip an Early Conservative stage if economic growth is very rapid, going directly from Preconservative to Late Conservative.  This is happening throughout Asia.)  The south now is religious, patriotic, fairly repressive sexually, and very activist in its politics, just as the Progressives were a century before.  The difference is that the southern Late Conservatives of today find themselves resisting social change instead of initiating it, as the Progressives did, because they are at the trailing edge rather than the leading edge of the changes. 

The western regions of the country are more complicated.  Today's Republican party really has three geographic regions in which it is still very strong.  They are the south, the great plains states, and the Mormon belt.  The plains states have probably remained Conservative due to constant out-migration of more Liberal members to urban areas, and now have small populations.  The Mormon region shows the same pattern as the south, going from Preconservative to Late Conservative.  Mormonism began as an authoritarian polygamous sect with a significant history of violence.  Polygamy is, pure and simple, sexual privilege for elite males, and is another clear marker of Preconservatism, like slavery.   Mormonism today, however, is no longer polygamous, less violent and authoritarian, sexually repressive, and politically activist. 

Other areas of the west show that an activist Late Conservative stage usually occurs just before the onset of Liberalism.  California is a good example: previously Republican, elected Ronald Reagan governor twice, now reliably Democratic.  Colorado and Nevada are just now undergoing the same transition.  Both used to be reliably Republican, and Colorado in particular was known as a center for evangelical Christianity, now both are trending Democratic. 

Other areas demonstrate this also.  Virginia was, like Colorado, known as a hotbed of religious activism, and has recently trended Democratic also.  North Carolina and Florida are showing similar trends.  In my own New York metro region the Long Island suburbs used to be very solidly Republican and now vote Democratic and are clearly Liberal. 

This pattern makes it possible to see the political trends in America over the past fifty years and, more important, to make predictions.  America has mostly moved in a Liberal direction over the past half century, with the exception of the south and the Mormon belt, which have moved toward Conservatism, but from a Preconservative base.  The turn toward political conservatism in the 1980s was a result of the south moving firmly into Conservatism, combined with a reaction to the poor economy of the 1970s.  Since there are very few remaining areas in America that are Preconservative, the movement toward Conservatism cannot continue, while the movement from Conservatism to Liberalism will continue.  This means that if reasonably good economic conditions persist, then an American transition to European-style Liberalism is inevitable. 

This is not guaranteed, however, because we now face a potential Depression.  The Great Depression of the 1930s caused a temporary reversal of the political transformations that accompany economic progress, and this could happen again.  (Remember that the effects of economic conditions on social values are time-lagged, because conditions during childhood affect values during adulthood.  The Great Depression caused America to adopt more liberal economic policies while it was going on, but also resulted in social Conservatism in subsequent decades.)

Of course, this prediction about American politics is not yet based on an explanatory mechanism for these values system changes, but only on the observation of patterns and the assumption that they will continue to hold true.  In subsequent posts I will detail the underlying psychological processes that cause values to shift as they do in response to changing conditions.  I will also bring economic issues into the discussion.  After that, I will show how this theory also explains values shifts in non-Western societies (there are actually several trajectories that societies can follow). 

I hope all you readers find this interesting enough to read and comment on.  Any time it becomes boring, please tell me.  I have been working on this, on and off, for many years, and recently I find myself in an odd situation.  For the past few years I have been making predictions based on my theory and watching them come true.  This has made me try to push myself to articulate my ideas, but I need some feedback about how to do it.  Thanks for reading. 


45 Comments

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Tom, intriguing theory. Too long a post for me to read just now... once I started it and realized how long it was. But it seems like you're doing some very deep thinking here.

Could I quibble with one of your premises? You say:

if childhood conditions determine personality

I'd encourage you to give that greater thought, at least in how you interpret what happens. I think our childhood certainly does play a significant role. But so do our perceptions and even the decisions we make based on them. I know you're looking at a broad sweep here, but I'd hate for your book to come out sounding too deterministic.

As one example, I'm pretty sure that children as young as 3 years old make decisions that influence their lives. Decisions based on how they react to certain events and what they determine to do about that as they grow up. I've seen that over and over in the lives of people I've worked with, including my own. Indeed I can recall making one such decision at age 3, that I intended to remember (when I grew up) that children had feelings.

So I'd be wary about too much determinism, even though you're looking at a sweep of history and you're looking at large groups. Because how can you explain that W and his cronies are so different from others who came of age in just that time? Me, for example. (Though I will say that our college class, a small group of women, turned out to be a unique group in that college, but based on how they picked the class, not just on who we were as a generation. Though that factors in too.)

I like your idea that values and personality styles go together. Certainly values are inculcated by parents. But some values you take from parents and others you decide on your own.

I'll have to return later, Tom, to give this a more careful reading and reply in greater depth.

One more thing about your experiment of putting this out on the web. If you hope to publish, what if someone else scoops your book? It would certainly be unethical to do so. Nevertheless, I'd hate to see you put so much effort into something, only to see it stolen from you.

Best wishes in this endeavor, Tom. :)

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Thera, after looking at it again, I changed 'determine' to 'influence' in that passage. This is exactly the kind of careful reading and critiquing that I was hoping for to improve my work.

Thank you. With regard to GW, my classification of him would be Elite Preconservative, he is actually pretty representative of that type, who have a tendency to become that way due to leading lives of dominance as members of a privileged elite. I'll talk a lot more about this in my next post.

I'm not saying that social conditions make everyone have the same values, obviously that's not the case. I'm saying that they are one influence among several. Values of parents and individual circumstances are more important, I believe, for any particular person. What I do think is that social conditions create a modest psychological pressure across society that pushes values formation in a particular direction over time. They 'shift the curve', so to speak.

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Fascinating, Tom! Just fascinating. And I referenced your post in one I just put up. :)

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I agree with the change, but the subject of how individuals acquire social values is fascinating to me. My father, for example, was born in 1932. He has classic Liberal social values but is economically quite conservative. His father, a native German, was decidedly conservative.

Presupposing a link between expanding prosperity and the promulgation of Liberal values, I'd like your take on what societal values might look like in a post-consumer society. Kids today are a fascinating amalgam of conservative and liberal values. Is something new emerging?

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Thanks for commenting. I think that what is emerging today is a generation that is much less shaped by authoritarian experiences and relationships, because parenting has become quite a lot less authoritarian over the past few decades. Because of this kids today, I feel, are both less authoritarian and also less anti-authoritarian, in the sense of not being automatically in favor of or automatically against authority. This creates some tendencies that appear both more liberal and more conservative.

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Thanks for commenting, Blue. My feeling is that that the emerging generation is different in that it is much less shaped by authoritarian experiences and relationships, because parenting has become much less authoritarian. This makes the new generation both less authoritarian and also less anti-authoritarian, in the sense of not being automatically in favor of or automatically against authority. This creates both some Liberal and some Conservative tendencies. Does this fit in with what you're seeing ?

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Thanks for commenting, Blue. My thinking is that the generation coming to maturity today is different because it has been much less shaped by experiences and relationships of dominance and submission, because parenting has become much less authoritarian over the past few decades. This makes them both less inclined to be authoritarian, and also less inclined to be anti-authoritarian, in the sense of being automatically either in favor of or against authority. This has effects that are both Liberal and Conservative. I'd be curious whether this fits with what you're seeing.

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Thanks Thera. Good comment. Actually, I should have phrased that better and may edit it. What I actually think is that childhood conditions are determinative only on a statistical level, and that individual decisions certainly play a large role and often override psychological pressures. As for putting my ideas out there, I've been wrestling with that question. Part of me feels that ideas should be free, that that's what is best for society, and if other people want to use tthem then that's a mark of their utility. Also, if it's posted on the web then it is already published to some degree, and plaigarism would be easy to prove. Thanks for the concern, though.

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We are still arguing the Vietnam War if not fighting it. But on CSPAN, during all these reviews of Lincoln Bios, a Black author was discussing how in some places of the old South, Lincoln is seen as a war criminal.

So we are still arguing the Civil War. The symbol of the Confederate Flag is still a point of great emotional significance.

All week on this site, bloggers are arguing the old lines and dispute, for the most part, the New President's attempt to get around these old obstacles to discussion.

But watching the Sunday News Shows, same old, same old. To the point that I do not wish to discuss these old issues with conservatives any longer.

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All true, DD. I'm not saying that racism has vanished in the south, or anywhere else. I'm just saying that it has diminished over time, and proposing reasons why this has occurred. People who were racist years ago and are still alive may not have changed. Some younger people who were raised to be racist may have adopted those views, but I believe many have not. I'm not arguing all-or-nothing propositions here, just changes in amount and degree. Thanks for commenting.

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determinative only on a statistical level

Maybe you'd like to rephrase that to something like: "When you look at groups of people, you can perceive "trends" that are not evident on an individual level. And I'm proposing to look at those trends, recognizing that not every person will mirror every trend. Nevertheless....

It may sound pedantic to qualify it, as I did above, but it's better to give the reader a sense that you're painting an "impressionistic" picture. That it's a way of "seeing" - based on large group samples.

For me the word "determinative" is not one I'm fond of. Nevertheless, I realize evolutionary psychology wants to be a "science." And they do tend to be more deterministic than suits me. So, I can see your dilemma here: Go with the evolutionary model and appear deterministic. Let go of the model... and then you need your own. (If it were me, I'd make the second choice, but then you're on your own, without a literature to lean on.)

I'll continue to make little comments - or big ones. But I don't have a stake in this, so whatever choices you make, fine by me. There are cases to be made either way.

I'm for open source myself. But it may not result in a published book if it's already out there for free.

Lots of decisions to make, Tom. (I will keep up with this. You've got a good theory, I think. You're onto something.)

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Thera, thanks once more. I'm trying to keep my writing accessible with the posts but feel a bit more freedom in the comments to be pedantic, especially when replying to someone like you who I know has statistical training. You're right that I should minimize that in the posts.

My view of evolutionary psychology is actually not completely deterministic. I believe that evolution has shaped the human mind to have a great deal of plasticity, but also to experience certain emotions and impulses have been functional (in the evolutionary sense) in certain situations. The plasticity allows this to be overridden by learning, and acts of conscious decision. But not everyone will have learning that counteracts these emotions and impulses, and not everyone will make conscious decisions to control them.

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Just great, Tom. The more I hear of your theory and your assumptions, the more fascinated I am, the more eager for what's to come.

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Wow. A lot to digest there for my little brain, Tom, because I've never thought about the progression of value systems on such a large scale.

I will say I found it all very fascinating and would love to read more about it. There is a lot for me to think about, and I may post back at a later time once I've ran through some things in my head.

I will say I can see how times of turmoil can promote conservative values. When things are going out of control, we want someone to be the parent. We want someone to step in and take control of the situation. We want a strong authority figure. We actually

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(CONTINUED.. accidental click)
We actually want to be submissive, and hand over the problem for someone to fix. Its like crying for mommy. So we kinda of throw ourselves to the late stages of Preconservatism, and from there progress to Conservatism.

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Excellent insights, Friz. The whole submissive side of emotionality I think is poorly understood in our society because experience of it is limited and it is not considered as socially acceptable as it used to be. Actually, part of my theory is that components of past value systems persist in every culture, because parents will try to pass along their values. So a Preconservative streak definitely remains in our culture, as you rightly point out, and tends to be strongly activated under stress and threat, as you also rightly point out.

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One other thought, Tom. Who is your intended audience? If other psychologists of people familiar with statistics, then your references to statistical terms are fine. If you're trying to reach the general population, then find ways to state things (even like a normal curve) that avoid all jargon. Again, your call here. In general, I try to avoid jargon myself. It's a good short-hand among colleagues, but can put off the general reader. (no need to answer this to me, just for you to think about)

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Here's an example:

These phenomena are clearly statistical, which means that what changes is the likelihood and frequency of a particular value system under certain childhood conditions. The baby boom generation had a distribution of value systems among its members that was noticeably different from its predecessor.

If for a general reader, it needs to flow like a conversation. You know what you're saying. I can follow it. But it could flow better without jargon, if you want to grab your reader.

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Interesting concept, but I agree about needing to know 'target group' before commenting on body of text/theory as presented.

As with verbal discourse, in writing (to be published), 'it's not what you say it's how you say it' that will decide if the message is delivered as intended.

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Who is my target audience? The simple answer is that I don't know and I'm trying to figure that out. Unfortunately, I haven't published, academically or otherwise, so I don't have an experience base to help me answer that question. One possibility is this could be aimed at the same audience that reads, say, "What's the Matter with Kansas?" or other popular books about politics like that. The other possibility is that it could be a serious academic book. I really don't know which way to go.

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If you are hoping to 'introduce' this text/theory to the broadest audience, then I do hope you (as Thera wrote) publish it as a 'conversation'.

It is my opinion the majority of those who interact here are more informed, literate and attuned to our political vernacular than most of our society. But, many more across our country, to acquire your message will need a more simplistic conversational format. (As it is with me,for example, when attempting to learn and understand about anything mechanical, our space program, etc.)

Personally, I vote not for another academic tome but one that will benefit the most populace.

It is such an interesting topic (and one that needs to be explored) I believe that most would find it enlightening.

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So you would vote for something like "THIS is What's the Matter with Kansas"? I hope you'll comment on my upcoming posts and tell me if you think that they are accessible to most people. It's hard for me to tell.

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Most of us need the KISS. (Keep it simple!)

In words and examples that the general populace can relate to and even find ourselves/experiences in is what impacts and informs all with the greatest strength and worth to those who care enough to obtain the message.

I look forward to your next 'installment'....

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Thanks, good point. Did any other readers find this passage off-putting? I'm curious about whether I can sprinkle things like that in occasionally or whether I need to be rigorous about getting rid of them. I'll think about how to rewrite it.

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I think Aunt Sam (above) has answered your question.

You are doing such a valuable service here, Tom. Both for us and for yourself. (as dd is doing with his chapters in the story...)

This kind of thing elevates and extends what this site can do for us. I hope we'll see more of this!

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Ok, you pulled me in! Last comment here. Once I got into your programmatic part, where you're sketching in your theory and how it fits into history and even different parts of the country, the writing flows much, much better. Easier to read. (so maybe just a bit of tweaking, like I've mentioned above, for those early parts)

You're gonna get a lot of interesting comments or reflections if people take the time to read. But it's a very stimulating theory. Like all theories it will never work perfectly, but as a working model it provides a lot of food for thought and another way to view events.

Kudos! I'll be interested to read more. :)

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Thanks, Thera. I really do appreciate that. Encouragement and support, plus careful critiquing. You should do some book editing!

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Thanks, Tom. I'll stick to just helping you, if you don't mind!

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Now I am thinking: Where does the progression go after Liberal? Or do we know? Or is it really a cycle?

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That really is the big question, Friz, and history has not yet given us an answer. The countries farthest along in this trajectory seem to be Great Britain, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavian countries. Great Britain had a significant period of decline until recently, but the others seem to be doing well. One important consideration is that Liberal countries seem to have very low birth rates, so maybe they just shrink.

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Take a look at Spain as well. Not economically right now. But the amazing thing of Prime Minister whose grandfather was shot by the Falange, but who is able to be forgiving and to help move his country forward to gay marriage and so on. Amazing!

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Tom:

I find your general historical sweep intriguing. I would reccomend that you focus on family models, wealth distribution, and colonialism to help you out. A fascinating read in your vein is Wilhelm Reich's "The Mass Psychology of Fascism." He focuses on sexual repression, the smaller isolated family unit (much more vulnerable to poverty and dependence on government), and cultural permissiveness of child abuse. Hitler's self identification as Father (pharaoh) and the German land as Mother, and children being reared to love state more than family are side effects of the cultural milieu.

I don't know if you can apply Aristotelian categories to political attitudes and thus predict trends. Is a nation that is undergoing occupation by foreign forces liberal, conservative, or preconservative? What about nations with an active rebel movement? How much of our cultural indoctrination is guided by elites... Ergo how much of our mass psychology dependent on elite attitudes and academic theory?

I think what you are attempting is marvelous. But be careful of unifies theories... They have a bad habit of becoming crystallised coherent structures whereby criticism is naturally rejected in favor of purity.

Finally, who is your intellectual forebear? Are you taking a Hegelian approach, Aristotelian, mechanist, positivist, cognitive, etc.? In other words, what pre-conceived notions are you carrying into this study?

Best of luck! I will stick to art, because it allows me to theorize freely in symbolic context without the rigour of material proofs. I was made to question, not to answer. I commend your courage.

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Thanks for commenting, Zip. I'll talk more about Fascism when I get to the evolutionary psychology part, which concerns dominance vs. cooperation as evolutionary strategies. However, I take a different tack than most psychoanalytically inclined persons in my view of repression. The analytic view is that sexual repression is fundamental, and other things flow from it. This may be true for familial transmission, but where does sexual repression come from in the first place? My view is that self-denial as a successful survival strategy generalizes to all kinds of impulse control, including sexual repression, and that is how sexual repression gets its start historically. After that, it has a life of its own.

I'm not much of a philosopher, I'm afraid, and my intellectual influences in this actually are economists. What early economists did was that they took a psychological process, the rational pursuit of self-interest, and then made a series of deductions about what would happen at the level of the whole society if people operated according to this process. These deductions revealed processes at the group level were a good approximation of what everyone could observe happening (like the Law of Supply and Demand). They couldn't operate as real scientists, using data to support equations, because proper data didn't exist.

This made me ask whether there might be other psychological processes that could be used in the same way, and I have found that there are. The one I introduced here is just the simple idea that conditions during childhood influence behavior during adulthood. I tried to figure out what deductions would flow that, and found, as Adam Smith and others did, that they seem to fit observed reality in many (but not all) cases. Like the early economists I can't really test these ideas scientifically, because systematic measurements of value systems doesn't exist.

Thanks for your support and questions. I hope you keep reading.

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Tom, I like your ideas and I like the way you've presented them. I haven't come across other writings on this subject matter and I'm intrigued. You've certainly whetted my appetite and I'm looking forward to your next installment!

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Thanks, LC. Hopefully. I'll have my next post in a few days. Glad you liked it.

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Tom:
One of the most fascinating books I have ever read is ALBION'SEED by David Hackett Fischer. It might be of interest to you for two reasons:
1) his flawless organization of a big topic with historical, sociological, theological, political and even psychological components; and
2) his ability to write in such an informed, thoughtful yet accessible style that all 900+ of his pages are page turners. (And if that wasn't achieving enough, he even summarized his theory in a four column comparative table that I remember twenty years later.)

So, if Fischer's book intrigues you, either in content or character, you might be interested in the following analyses of the book:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/janes-bingo-award-for-m_b_37415.html

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p114_Rosit.html

I personally agree more with Jane Smiley's interpretation than the I do with the other. But I'd love to know what you think, and will look forward to the next installment of your own work, in any case.

Good luck with this project.

PS: Another fantastic author who made an art form of writing about a big topic is, of course, Shelby Foote. But you've probably read him already.

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The correctly typed title of Fischer's book is ALBION'S SEED. Sorry. Everyone needs a proofreader.

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I'm also interested in your literary referents. I did independent study one semester in college with a marketing executive who was trying to use contemporary literature to predict market trends. I was too young, too stupid and too stoned to figure out if he was on to something, but the concept interests me still. Have you considered Thomas Pynchon?

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Blue, I haven't used liturature very much. When I started seeing patients every day, I found that my appetite for stories was saturated by listening to them, and U really stopped reading fiction at that point. Also, the reading I had to do for this just in history alone was enormous. Do you feel that Pynchon is relevant to what I'm tallking about?

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Blue, I haven't used liturature very much. When I started seeing patients every day, I found that my appetite for stories was saturated by listening to them, and I really stopped reading fiction at that point. Also, the reading I had to do for this just in history alone was enormous. Do you feel that Pynchon is relevant to what I'm tallking about?

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Blue, I haven't used liturature very much. When I started seeing patients every day, I found that my appetite for stories was saturated by listening to them, and I really stopped reading fiction at that point. Also, the reading I had to do for this just in history alone was enormous. Do you feel that Pynchon is relevant to what I'm tallking about?

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Fascinating, WW. I've read The Great Wave by Fischer, which is a great book about the history of inflation (amazingly readable) but not Albion's Seed. After reading the links you provided I'll probably go get it. I really have to thank you for this info, because Fischer's typology fits in beautifully with my system of classifying value systems. Briefly, the Puritans and Quakers were Conservatives in my system, the Puritans being Early Conservative and the Quakers closer to being Late Conservative (farther along in the Liberal direction). The Cavaliers and Highlanders, being violent and honor-based, were both Preconservative, with Cavalier culture being more toward the dominant, aristocratic end of the Preconservative spectrum and highlander culture being more toward the middle.

My take on things is these cultural types persist in our society not because people fitting these categories today are direct descendants of the same types in the past, but because these cultural types are in some way fundamental outgrowths of certain conditions. These are plenty of xenophobic and violent people who aren't descendants of Appalachian hillbillies, and there are plenty of sexually repressed religious people who aren't descendants of the Puritans, and so on. Also, you can find cultural types very similar to the ones in Albion's Seed throughout the world today, in areas whose histories are unconnected to Great Britain's.

Thanks so much for the comments and the info, I look forward to hearing from you when O do my upcoming posts.

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Tom, this was fantastic. My vote is for Kansas with good footnotes.

I think you are on a similar path to Jost, et al in their 2003 "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition" research. PCMSC tracked, through a variety of methods, the correlations of peoples preference in political policy with their individual needs based on personality, social interests or existential needs.

Essentially out of the 10 meta - motives, they came away with two of what they call the core aspects of conservatism. The motives they researched were fear and aggression, intolerance of ambiguity, rule following and negative affect, uncertainty avoidance, need for cognitive closure, personal need for structure, need for prevention-oriented regulatory focus, anxiety arising from mortality salience, group-based dominance and system justification tendencies.

The two core motives that are based on these psychological needs to manage fear and uncertainty resolve to resistance to change and the endorsement of inequality. The latter is related to a view of society and the economic system as being inevitably hierarchical.

Again to the points you were making, PCMSC referred to studies that showed that during the Depression and high unemployment people were more likely to join authoritarian churches, such as Southern Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist, and less likely to join non-authoritarian churches, such as Northern Baptist and Episcopalian, compared with periods of relative prosperity (1920-1930). (p.365)

Another study tracked spending on fire vs police spending, where there was more spending on the police even though the crime rate had fallen. And one particularly interesting study tracked Presidential election years between 1778-1992 on the degree to which the social, economic, and political circumstances of that period were “threatening to the American established order.” (p.366)

I'm not a psychology anything, so please forgive if I have misinterpreted either you or the contents of the Jost study. But I find it all fascinating!

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Wow. Seashell, thanks so much for the info, I will look into it in detail. From what you say, it seems to fit in perfectly. I notice that you found your way to my post a day and a half after it went off the board. Thanks for looking me up.

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Somebody mentioned this post and linked to it on another post today that I can't remember right now, but it sounded cool so I followed the link and got hooked.

You're welcome on the info! I'm waiting for a GV 2 soon.

By the way, the authors mentioned that there is a lot of literature available on conservatives, but not so much on liberals. Something to do with research on authoritarians and Nazi Germany.

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Tom Hollenbach

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  • Location New Jersey
  • Party Democrat
  • Politics Social liberal and economic and foreign policy centrist

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  • Favorite Blogs TPM, Paul Krugman, fivethirtyeight.com, politicalwire.com
  • Favorite Books How the Mind Works - by Steven Pinker, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order - by Samuel Huntington, The Story of Civilization - by Will and Ariel Durant
  • Favorite Quotes God gave you a brain and he meant you to use it - My Nana

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I am a Clinical Psychologist in private practice. I also am writing a book that explains changes in the value systems of societies over time using insights from evolutionary psychology.

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