Why Rachel Maddow Was Wrong
And Dahlia Lithwick, for that matter. [And the two of them are some of my favorite people, so this criticism is not meant as a wholesale condemnation of them].
I despise the Bush administration and I challenge anyone to a contest of which of us can list the largest number of awful things Bush, Cheney et al. have done.
But ... I don't agree with Rachel or Dahlia that now is the time for the Obama (pre-presidency) administration to pursue a criminal investigation of Bush's wrongdoing. Rachel's feeling was that Obama correctly stated he has a mandate, and he should use some of that large political capital to bring Bush and his staffers to justice.
I just look around at what's happening in the country -- home foreclosures, rising unemployment, small businesses (like my neighbor's applicance business) in deep trouble because of the lack of money available to them, and I know that Obama is correct to focus virtually all his efforts on bringing the country back to economic stability.
This conclusion does not come from Obama adulation and worship -- it's from a purely practical point of view. No one person can do everything and the economy is what's directly affecting people right now. It's what needs urgent fixing. The daily press conferences, cabinet appointments and stated plan for the economy is exactly what should be happening.
I hope that at some point things will start to stabilize and Obama can turn his attention to the myriad other things that need to be done to rescue our country from the garbage dump into which Bush pushed us.
And certainly one of the first things that he should tackle, after we have some economic healing, is restoring our consitutionally guaranteed civil liberties. A big part of that is prosecuting those people in power who violated our rights and broke the law. If sometime during Mr. Obama's first term he does not make this one of his priorities, then I will join the chorus of criticism.
But for now, I'm happy with what he has chosen as his primary issue.
I despise the Bush administration and I challenge anyone to a contest of which of us can list the largest number of awful things Bush, Cheney et al. have done.
But ... I don't agree with Rachel or Dahlia that now is the time for the Obama (pre-presidency) administration to pursue a criminal investigation of Bush's wrongdoing. Rachel's feeling was that Obama correctly stated he has a mandate, and he should use some of that large political capital to bring Bush and his staffers to justice.
I just look around at what's happening in the country -- home foreclosures, rising unemployment, small businesses (like my neighbor's applicance business) in deep trouble because of the lack of money available to them, and I know that Obama is correct to focus virtually all his efforts on bringing the country back to economic stability.
This conclusion does not come from Obama adulation and worship -- it's from a purely practical point of view. No one person can do everything and the economy is what's directly affecting people right now. It's what needs urgent fixing. The daily press conferences, cabinet appointments and stated plan for the economy is exactly what should be happening.
I hope that at some point things will start to stabilize and Obama can turn his attention to the myriad other things that need to be done to rescue our country from the garbage dump into which Bush pushed us.
And certainly one of the first things that he should tackle, after we have some economic healing, is restoring our consitutionally guaranteed civil liberties. A big part of that is prosecuting those people in power who violated our rights and broke the law. If sometime during Mr. Obama's first term he does not make this one of his priorities, then I will join the chorus of criticism.
But for now, I'm happy with what he has chosen as his primary issue.
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I am having a hard time with that rationale. The reason is because of expediency...
You see, the crimes that might have been committed during the Bush administration were likely caused by expediency. Each time they were brought to light, as with the Plame affair, we were told that they couldn't comment on an ongoing investigation and then later they said that now wasn't the time to look back, but to look forward. Our civil rights and the rule of law were trampled because of the "urgent need to take care of..."
We are a might nation and we should be able to do more than one thing at a time. We cannot be just as guilty as the Repubs to put off the rule of law because of one crisis or another.
Especially when it comes to making sure there are consequences so this doesn't happen again.
I want my America to put the law above all else, otherwise we will have lost what it is that makes America special. Accountability.
November 26, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Just for general knowledge...
Very well stated Darren.
Here is what Obama said he would do, and no matter what anyone says, until Obama says differently this is what we have to go on. He's an adult, he's the incoming President, and he can chew gum and walk and delegate duties all at the same time.
This is from the blog of Will Bunch at philly.com April 14, 2008 who actaully was the person who personally asked Obama what he would do about this whole affair:
~OGD~
*Paddlin' 'round the Café since June 2005*
November 27, 2008 5:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect this is exactly what will happen. I also think Obama understands that much of what we think are crimes have been rendered legal gray areas by all kinds of Congressional actions. That's why he says we will investigate first in order to see what actual crimes were committed. Despite the Bush administration's morally repugnant abuse of the system, we have legalized all manner of brutal precedent.
November 27, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
In fact, I would go along that line by saying that our economic situation is directly tied to the injustices committed by the bush administration. It is only through bringing these people to justice that the economy can be put back on track. Economic stimulus that leaves the culprits free will fail because its business as usual. I'm referring to torture, war crimes, and systemic fraud of the bush years, so I would go after to executives at corporations too. After all, I bet you find that private contractors took over the torturing after Abu Grab, and the housing market bubble is just begging for an investigation. Top executives knew what they were doing when they pushed for credit reform, and sub prime mortgages. These assholes were counting on a bailout. They got it right at the end of a Bush administration too. How convenient.... This whole bailout is an act of theft, as is the iraq "war". Its all meant to drain government treasury to prepare for take over. These guy have got to be stopped, or the country will be gone in a generation.
November 27, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Much as I want to see criminal acts prosecuted, I'm more interested in seeing them exposed. The typical line, currently being aped by Lieberman, is "we can't afford to look back" or simply "blame game". But the truth is, we learn from past mistakes and it is critical to our avoiding them in the future.
In particular, I want the Obama administration to know EVERYTHING about the domestic spying program; who was spied on, what actionable 'intelligence' was gained, what it cost us, and was it worth it. Everything about the torture and rendition programs, what did we learn, how much was done to how many and based on what justification. On Cheney's energy task force; who was there, what did they say, what policies resulted, what was the public cost and benefit. On no-bid contracts; on what basis were the recipients chosen, how much were they paid, what oversight did they receive, what were the results, and how much better or worse would government employees have done (for example, how much better or worse were Blackwater mercenaries than US troops, and what was the real need and benefit of $900/day "soldiers".
Let the sunshine into all those dark places and let's see what happened under the hood of our government during the last 8 years. What can we learn and how can we avoid repeating costly mistakes?
November 26, 2008 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like your list and agree that one of the main things is to get it all out there for everyone to see. It's one of the best preventative measures we can take.
However, what you suggest is a massive job and one that would take tremendous attention and energy. I don't think that prior even to taking office, and in the middle of a massive economic collapse is the time for Obama to start this type of investigation.
However, I also don't want it put off for too long.
This should be a major objective for Obama's first term. I do hope he will invest in returning America to a constitutional democracy.
November 26, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that the "now isn't the time to look back" argument is fallacious and foolish. It's not a serious reason for opposing going after the law-breakers in the Bush administration.
I would dearly love to see a serious investigation and, hopefully, prosecution of Bush, Cheney and their minions.
My only point is that the economy collapse has to be the driving force right now.
While on its face it seems true that we can do more than one thing at a time, I believe it's not that simple. Obama needs the cooperation of both Dems and Republicans in Congress right now to pass a massive jobs and infrastructure program and that has to be the priority.
November 26, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am in agreement with everyone here to some extent.
"letting this go, forever" amounts to amnesty, blanket pardons.
Issue 1: If someone refuses to respond to a Congressional Subpoena Duces Tecum, and nothing is done about this non response, WHAT GOOD ARE CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENAS?
Issue 2. If the President, relying on sub par attorneys who have been given conclusions before any research is done, ignores basic terms of treaties with other nations that were ratified pursuant to the Constitution, WHAT GOOD ARE TREATIES and WHO WILL EVER TRUST US TO DO AS WE PROMISE?
Issue 3: If the President can out and out lie to Congress and provide false documents in order to procure a Declaration of War, and nothing is done, WHAT DOES CONGRESS HAVE TO DO WITH DECLARATIONS OF WAR?
Issue 4: If members of the Executive Branch lie under oath while testifying before Congress, and nothing is done, WHAT GOOD ARE OATHS?
Issue 5: If the President can wiretap anyone any time he pleases without court order, WHAT GOOD ARE COURT ORDERS OR THE BILL OF RIGHTS?
Thousands of essays and hundreds of books far more in depth and intelligent than this memo have been written over the last 8 years.
I really have a problem with letting all this being swept under the rug. I think I mostly agree with GreenDreams. Let us find out the truth for the first time in almost a decade!!!!!
November 26, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tamarat: I'm sorry. I forgot to state that I love your picture.
November 26, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you! My younger daughter for Halloween. According to her, she was "a spy dressed up as Hermione Granger."
November 26, 2008 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I missed Maddow, so I don't know the context of "now", as in WHEN this crap needs to see the light of day.
My opinion? NOW (today until 1/20/2009) is not the time for the Obama team to run with this.
They ain't got anything but a podium.
OTOH...starting immediately, I would think that the "transition" team is joined at the hip with the White House archivists, Information Tech folks and any Bushie who has an industrial strength paper shredding system.
November 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure Obama ought to focus on the economy, but that doesn't mean he, or congress, can't delegate.
What if congress had impeached Bush and Cheney? Since nobody's bothered to hold them accountable, Bush and Cheney continue writing regulations the people don't want, and funneling billions to the undeserving rich. That's a lot of damage that congress could have prevented instead of spending years trying to undo.
And down here among the middle classes, will the people who signed foolish mortgage agreements also get bailed out, and keep the big houses they couldn't afford? The only problem is how it makes the responsible people in their smaller hard-earned houses feel.
People need to see justice done. We need to see Bush and Cheney punished, and the AIG and Citigroup and GM executives stripped of their wealth.
The damage done by not holding rich people accountable is big, and real: 1. People become dispirited. They are more likely to use expediency, cynicism and private influence to survive. This is bad for people in the quiet of their hearts, and bad for the country. 2. Did you notice that every politician, left and right, promises accountability? If Obama doesn't deliver, people will respond to Republicans or anybody else who they think will finally, really pursue justice.
November 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not sure how strong to argue against the ideas behind the post. Partly, because I don't know how strongly you believe in the sentiments behind it - they seem they might not be concrete. Especially from this, "And certainly one of the first things that he should tackle, after we have some economic healing, is restoring our consitutionally guaranteed civil liberties." Not belittling the recent economic impact on everyone, I think fighting for civil liberties is more important than fighting for a job. I would certainly choose my civil liberties at the expense of my job. We are lucky to have the relative security of both. Both are battles that Obama can and should do now and continuously. As far as expedition, I hope his skills of deliberation and prudence carry through.
I see Obama's mandate as one to restore our faith in the Government, not necessarily our faith in America. The former affects our civil liberties, the later our jobs. I worry if he and his cabinet are not able to concurrently address such high impact issues.
November 26, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
While philosophically I agree with you that civil liberties are far more important than a job, I think that the vast majority of people in this country don't feel that way. They are much more likely to be worried about whether they'll have a paycheck the next month, especially if they haven't been personally affected by the violations of rights perpetrated by Bush et al. And I have a certain amount of sympathy for that position -- when you have children and are suddenly confronted with the prospect of losing your job, losing your home and losing your future, civil liberties seem like a very distant issue.
That's why I think the economy has to come first and foremost. People who feel secure can afford to think about the more abstract issues. If we can get to the point where people feel more secure about their future, we can harness much more support for going after Bush, Cheney and their minions.
November 27, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess I just see it in a different measure of morality. I don't see our economic stability in such dire straights to need such immediate and strong actions; there is economic instability and stagnation, but no one is starving or a refugee. Some might argue by saying, "tell that to someone losing their home or job" and I sympathize with them as one of those directly affected by the troubles, I would say, "tell that to someone tortured and imprisoned without justice." There is nothing so spectacular that Obama can or will do that will create an immediate cure for individuals and families. Not to sound like a perfected free-market libertarian, and cause be damned, I do realize that the neglect of the working class has to be addressed and always above the needs of strict capitalism.
In spite of my sympathy, I still feel that pocketbook issues before others are selfish, as our character seems to defined. I am embarrassed and angered when I see those polls saying that the economy is the most important issue on peoples minds. If Rwanda wasn't close enough to home, try telling that to someone with a Son, Daughter, Father, Mother, Wife or Husband in the Military Service. We have the ability to absorb the dilemmas of poverty and unemployment, but how do we absorb the effects of acts against humanism.
Often I sound indignant even to myself when I see ignorance, insolence, or just plain spoiled brat behaviors as general reflections of our Country. The Ugly American has no right being the Angry American. Obama is neither of those Americans, and has the responsibility to lead, command and establish policy to do it all. We shouldn't expect less - others have done more.
November 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think many of you are going to be very disappointed and upset with Obama about this. Obama wants to set up a commission for this torture issue, but I don't believe it will end in prosecutions. Do you really think that we are going to turn on the news one day and see Bush and Cheney & Co. being escorted, in handcuffs, to a jail cell? Because they were the architects of this then they need to go down with the those that executed their orders. That to me is the only right way to do this and I just don't see Obama going after Bush/Cheney. If Obama does anything it will be closing Gitmo, restore the civil rights that Bush took away (IF he can actually do that), and/or create new legislation to prevent this from happening again. It is easy to list reasons why Obama should prosecute and they are excellent reasons, but we also need to think about the downside of this type of ivestigation. The distraction, the division, a total upheaval in Washington and then a big let down at the end when the accused aren't prosecuted.
November 26, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish I could disagree, but I cannot...
A legal, properly run, fair and open investigation of some of the most important issues of governance in the last 35 years would be a "distraction".
We now know the extent of our society's dedication to the rule of law.
November 26, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rcv'd! Some will take exception to making decisions regardig law and order, based on pure political expediency. But, they miss the fact that justice is and was always political.
November 27, 2008 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Zann, above:
1. Obama won't be personally doing this; that is what delegation is about.
2. Letting people get away with crimes that have killed people and hurt our country is wrong. Congress let that happen and they abrogated one of their most important responsibilities.
3. If there is no reckoning for this, why would we expect it not to happen again, and again, and again?
It is simply too important to let it go, or even put it off.
November 27, 2008 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Tamarat. Any attempt at a criminal investigation would be frought with partisan rancor and name calling that would make it impossible to solve the problems facing us today as well an those in the foreseeable future.
Justice After Bush: Prosecuting an Outlaw Administration, an article by Scott Horton in the December issue of Harper's examins the options and concludes that a very carefully selected bipartisan executive-branch commission would be the best solution. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/12/0082303
The commission's charge would be
The author continues defining the powers, scope and findings of the commission.Finally the recommendations of the commission
These suggestions seem eminently more rational and ultimately more productive than a criminal investigation. This commission is something that Liberals should add to the list that CarolIB talks about in her Honeymoon's Over blog http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/carolbg/2008/11/honeymoons-over---lets-talk-ab.php.
November 27, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Er...examines.
November 27, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
When a Democrat exposes a republican crime (example: blowing a CIA agent's identity) it is the "blame game." When a Democrat is hauled out to dry (example: Bill Clinton's impeachment) it is deemed a "search for justice."
Republicans will always name-call and make a huge stink whenever they are called out. That is no reason to let them get away with murder. Just as they raised the bar for impeachment -- because the legitimate charges against Bush would have been labeled "payback." Fear of that very name-calling is what kept our Congress from carrying out its responsibility to defend and protect the Constitution.
I hope Obama is brave enough to do what is needed to re-establish lawful behavior of all branches of our government. It is as important as a good economy in my opinion.
November 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Focus" does not mean "ignore everything else".
Who was it who said during the campaign that a President needs to be able to multitask?
November 27, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink