Rollingstone Says We Are "Royally F@#%ked" (and I agree!)
Ran across an article in Rollingstone that gives an interesting perspective on AIGs role in this mess. It is a little lengthy, but funny and disturbing and should be a "must read" for all taxpayers.
I apologize in advance for the empty blockquote boxes...can't figure out how to make them go away!
It's over -- we're officially, royally fucked. no empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock, which is what happened as of a few weeks ago, when the buffoons who have been running things in this country finally went one step too far. It happened when Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was forced to admit that he was once again going to have to stuff billions of taxpayer dollars into a dying insurance giant called AIG, itself a profound symbol of our national decline -- a corporation that got rich insuring the concrete and steel of American industry in the country's heyday, only to destroy itself chasing phantom fortunes at the Wall Street card tables, like a dissolute nobleman gambling away the family estate in the waning days of the British Empire.
The latest bailout came as AIG admitted to having just posted the largest quarterly loss in American corporate history -- some $61.7 billion. In the final three months of last year, the company lost more than $27 million every hour. That's $465,000 a minute, a yearly income for a median American household every six seconds, roughly $7,750 a second. And all this happened at the end of eight straight years that America devoted to frantically chasing the shadow of a terrorist threat to no avail, eight years spent stopping every citizen at every airport to search every purse, bag, crotch and briefcase for juice boxes and explosive tubes of toothpaste. Yet in the end, our government had no mechanism for searching the balance sheets of companies that held life-or-death power over our society and was unable to spot holes in the national economy the size of Libya (whose entire GDP last year was smaller than AIG's 2008 losses).
So it's time to admit it: We're fools, protagonists in a kind of gruesome comedy about the marriage of greed and stupidity. And the worst part about it is that we're still in denial -- we still think this is some kind of unfortunate accident, not something that was created by the group of psychopaths on Wall Street whom we allowed to gang-rape the American Dream. When Geithner announced the new $30 billion bailout, the party line was that poor AIG was just a victim of a lot of shitty luck -- bad year for business, you know, what with the financial crisis and all. Edward Liddy, the company's CEO, actually compared it to catching a cold: "The marketplace is a pretty crummy place to be right now," he said. "When the world catches pneumonia, we get it too." In a pathetic attempt at name-dropping, he even whined that AIG was being "consumed by the same issues that are driving house prices down and 401K statements down and Warren Buffet's investment portfolio down."
The best way to understand the financial crisis is to understand the meltdown at AIG. AIG is what happens when short, bald managers of otherwise boring financial bureaucracies start seeing Brad Pitt in the mirror. This is a company that built a giant fortune across more than a century by betting on safety-conscious policyholders -- people who wear seat belts and build houses on high ground -- and then blew it all in a year or two by turning their entire balance sheet over to a guy who acted like making huge bets with other people's money would make his dick bigger.
That guy -- the Patient Zero of the global economic meltdown -- was one Joseph Cassano, the head of a tiny, 400-person unit within the company called AIG Financial Products, or AIGFP. Cassano, a pudgy, balding Brooklyn College grad with beady eyes and way too much forehead, cut his teeth in the Eighties working for Mike Milken, the granddaddy of modern Wall Street debt alchemists. Milken, who pioneered the creative use of junk bonds, relied on messianic genius and a whole array of insider schemes to evade detection while wreaking financial disaster. Cassano, by contrast, was just a greedy little turd with a knack for selective accounting who ran his scam right out in the open, thanks to Washington's deregulation of the Wall Street casino. "It's all about the regulatory environment," says a government source involved with the AIG bailout. "These guys look for holes in the system, for ways they can do trades without government interference. Whatever is unregulated, all the action is going to pile into that."
Please make the time to read the whole article. I believe it is important that we all understand what they are doing to us.
Good for ya' Stilli - My favorite part:
'eight years spent stopping every citizen at every airport to search every purse, bag, crotch and briefcase for juice boxes and explosive tubes of toothpaste. Yet in the end, our government had no mechanism for searching the balance sheets of companies that held life-or-death power over our society and was unable to spot holes in the national economy the size of Libya (whose entire GDP last year was smaller than AIG's 2008 losses).'
(Ironically some here may now actually go to airport in hopes of having their ..... searched! Won't mention names.)
Appreciate this. Rec'd.
March 22, 2009 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Auntie, real nice comparison. I mean, really nice.
March 22, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was my favorite part, too, Aunt Sam!
But now you have to name names as apparently I have missed out on a scandal??!?
March 22, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Loved that part too...
all about priorities...
March 22, 2009 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Rolling Stone comes up with a good one once in awhile. Zip was over to see me and noted it. I do not know if things are really that bad, but does one lonely ant realize that the elephant will soon destroy his village?
Good find. Good post Stilli. Always nice to read you.
March 22, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, not really reading "me" this time...I tried infusing it with some of my observations, but I'm having a hard time w/ the damn blockquotes and what I was saying kept getting bundled up in the blocks, and I finally decided the words from the article were more important than mine, so I dumped them. This was not my finest performance technologically, but the article is an important one. It scares me. And I have kids so I don't scare easily.
March 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
=D
I will make time tonight Still, Thanks.
March 22, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Something I would have missed otherwise. Thanks for this!
March 22, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, Rolling Stone joins the witch-hunt and declares Joseph Cassano the Public Enemy of the Month.
What a clever way for a music magazine to increase sales! Take a page from "US Weekly", replace Octomom trash with Joseph Cassano political angle, add a dose of thriller-style writing and - boom! - you got "insight" and attention of the blogosphere.
Nevermind the fact that Cassano didn't do anything illegal - that he just wanted to profit, like millions of us who refinanced every year and spent our way into credit card debt.
Cassano's only crime was that he was operating in an area that Congress didn't regulate because the politicians couldn't agree how.
Now he's caught in the grind and is well on his way to becoming the personification of what's wrong with America.
March 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nevermind the fact that Cassano didn't do anything illegal - that he just wanted to profit, like millions of us
If Cassano didn't do anything illegal why, as Josh notes on the front page of TPM, has Cassano hired the same white collar crime firm of lawyers (Joseph Warin of Gibson, Dunn, and Crutcher) that represented Bernie Ebbers, who is now serving time for fraud in the collapse of WorldCom?
Lalo, you might let the DOJ investigation of Cassano reach completion before equating his actions with millions who went into mortgage/credit card debt, and who are not under federal scrutiny.
March 22, 2009 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that wasn't really my point at all, but still - I'm so sorry to forget that the name of law firm you hire is as an indicator of your guilt or innocence!! I even thought you're presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Thanks for pointing out I was wrong.
March 22, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo, I don't know that the legality is what holds the weight in all this. If it's legal to create an oligarchy, then is it necessarily the best thing to do so?
March 22, 2009 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
EXACTLY! Which points out that just because something is legal doesn't make it right...
The idea that we have to hire more and more watch dogs to plug the loopholes that smart, devious people discover and exploit is a little frightening. If these brilliant minds could just be channeled into good things, for a change...
March 22, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You make a great point!
Now try to regulate what's right and watch yourself becoming another G W Bush with morality-driven politics.
I think everyone would be much better off if we stopped following the Fox News's "Who's Responsible" and focus on "what's responsible" instead.
March 22, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo, how can we get past this w/o identifying how it happened, so we can make sure it never happens again? And "who" is going to come up in "how." I have to admit that knowing that these guys are getting a little heartburn over what they've done doesn't bother me. They've given me plenty.
I am one of those people who did it all right, and suddenly I've gone from feeling like I had my future secure without having to depend on SS or being a burden to my children, to wondering if my pension will still be in place a year from now, or anything left in my Roth and IRA.
I could easily have lived the high life, but I chose to be prudent instead, and these guys have messed with my life. I'm pissed, and I have a right to be.
March 22, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This kind of "who" is a way for a person to vent, to release the anger and frustration.
The price of this is the public humiliation and destruction of anyone who the media decides to put on the front page. When taken to the extreme, it leads to what we did to the Japanese in America during WWII. Or to the Muslims in America right after 9/11.
The truth is we already know that no single person is responsible for the crisis. Our own President and Democrats in Congress said so repeatedly.
This witch-hunt is so reprehensible precisely because it appeals to the worst in all of us.
And we're worse off when we don't recognize when the media (including Rolling Stone, Fox News and Josh Marshall) feed on this anger for their own commercial revenue-generating purposes. They are doing it for the money, just as Cassano did.
March 22, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although there are parts of your argument that make sense, I'm trying to balance in my own mind the need for the people who got us into this mess to be held accountable for what they've done, with the country's need to get past the recriminations and get it fixed.
So far it appears that the people who invented and peddled these financial instruments have made a ton of money and are going to fare relatively well in whatever we end up with (be it severe recession or depression.) Meanwhile, they have nearly destroyed the world economy. It may have been legal, but WHY is it okay?
What they have done has DESTROYED lives. It has caused hardships around the world, and not everyone who is being hurt did ANYTHING wrong. They are just regular folks who are losing their jobs because of what these shenanigans have done to the economy.
I don't know the answer. Since there is no punishment bad enough, even if they did something illegal (which it appears that they did not) there is probably no real point in dwelling on it. It just galls me to see them to get away with all this destruction, then add insult to injury by getting bonuses on top of it.
Maybe there is just a little justice to be found in seeing the news media preying on their problems, like they preyed on us.
March 22, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you have to decide what you want - to PUNISH SOMEBODY or to FIX THE SYSTEM.
I don't think one equals the other.
Just because this blog or RS says Cassano is a crook doesn't make it so. Unless he is proven to have done something illegal, he is simply being killed by an angry mob. Even if he is a crook, that doesn't fix the problem or change the system.
So yes, I think he's being killed by a mob and at the same time, exploited by activists and politicians to advance their pet causes.
Teri Sciavo 2.0 in other words.
March 22, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does it have to be a choice between the two? I'd like to do both, fix it, and if laws have been broken (and I'm aware that it all may be perfectly legal) then the guilty should be punished.
Do you have any evidence from any source that indicates that the RS story is innacurate? I have been reading a lot about the subject and I haven't seen anything that contradicts it.
March 22, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plenty of people didn't refinance every year and didn't pile up credit card debt. They worked hard and played by the rules. Many of them are Republicans. Many of them are Democrats. They're what we used to call "middle America". They are the responsible and the accountable. They have a house with no mortgage. They've just helped their kids through college.
Cassano and his pals at the casino gambled away their retirement security and made a mockery of their integrity, their years of hard work and their frugality.
March 22, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's hang Cassano up by his neck. Then everything will be rosy again.
March 22, 2009 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bunny Cat, I don't want to see him hung (okay, maybe in the deepest darkest places in my heart, I might) but it won't happen, so isn't just a little humiliation instead okay?
March 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't want to see anyone hung either. I was being facetious. But I gotta tell ya, I'm getting awfully sick and tired of watching CNN stories about the protests at AIG employees' homes, punctuated by ads about how to make a fortune in home foreclosures. There's plenty of blame to go around in this fiasco. The tendency is always to find someone to blame for your troubles, but maybe we could worry a little bit more about fixing this mess and a little less about fixing the blame.
March 22, 2009 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a Catholic. I believe in sin. The root cause of this mess is a lack of accountability. It's become pervasive across institutions - government, corporate, media. You aren't going to stop this with this continuing refusal to hold anyone accountable for anything. I've been working for 35 years and I've never yet worked for an institution where accountability trickled up. The higher up you are the more accountable you need to be.
There should be some hangings, public floggings and widespread throwing of tomatoes.
March 22, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
But do you know what sin is? And what do Catholics think about this:
Deuteronomy 32:35
What it says to me is what Jesus said. Save for man that which belongs to man, and leave to God that which only God can claim.
March 22, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus fucking Christ! Leave religion out of this, ok? There are other standards of behavior that have honor and civility without the effing catechism!
Accept that people who don't believe in god believe in goodness and honor! Because plenty of people who claim to believe in god show not one whit of goodness and honor, and so SOMEONE HAS TO!
March 22, 2009 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't the one who raised the issue of sin and Catholicism. But I have enough respect for believers that I'm willing to research the subject. Don't give me any crap for being respectful, alright? I'm a Buddhist. I don't subscribe to the whole Catholic thing. But I DO respect it because I believe in any philosophy that doesn't limit man to a physical manifestation. I have a lot of respect for anyone who's willing to state on a public message board that they believe that we're more than just walking corpses.
March 22, 2009 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. I refuse. Because bluebell's perspective is exactly right and completely honorable. The Bible says that we were created in God's image. That means we're invisible, spiritual creatures, and that we have somehow misunderestimated ourselves. I believe that with all of my heart. If you choose to believe that you are a disposable contraption, destined for the garbage pit and that your mind it disconnected from the rest of the living creation, that's your right. But bluebell has my unqualified respect for stating an increasingly unpopular position in public. bluebell acknowledges the mystery of existence. You deny it. I side with bluebell.
March 22, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
With ya 100%, lalo.
March 22, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to say I agree with Hreb and Lalo here. Like Obama said on Leno the other night that the "dirty little secret" is that most of the shitty stuff these guys did was perfectly legal.
Of course Obama said we need to "change the laws" but there were laws already on the books enacted after the crash of '29. The republican president and congress basically voided those laws and loosened regulations which allowed the looting of our pocketbooks.
We can't run around with pitchforks pointing out this guy and that guy- this company and that company. "Blame them!!!! It is all their fault!!!"
It is too late..our store has been looted by wall street. We better figure out how to board up the windows because we will not do any good chasing after the all of the neighborhood hooligans.
So how do we board up the windows and fix this mess? How do we prevent it from happening again? If any law or regulation can be reversed in say 60-70 years after this calamity has faded from memory like a bad drinking binge, what is to prevent this cyclic economic destruction from happening again, and again, and again...?
March 22, 2009 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We can't run around with pitchforks pointing out this guy and that guy- this company and that company. "Blame them!!!! It is all their fault!!!"
It is too late."
And that is precisely right. We just need to right the ship. The people who are responsible for its listing don't matter any longer. We're strong, we're independent and we believe in our capacity to overcome any obstacle thrown in our way. If someone needs to be fired, let's fire them. But let us not be consumed by recriminations and the desire for revenge. Let us always be better than our adversaries.
March 22, 2009 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo, your spin is short-sighted and incorrect. The overarching theme of the article is the overthrow of our government that allows for these schemes to perpetuate at taxpayer expense. Cassano was the villain that embodies the criminal nature of our new masters. For you to blithely write it off as scapegoating is an indictment of your reading comprehension... And leads me to question the sincerity of your motives.
March 22, 2009 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Lalo sees Brad Pitt in the mirror?
March 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, I certainly don't see you there
March 22, 2009 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Try setting your sights a bit higher than the gutter.
March 22, 2009 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not interested in the Lord of the Rings theories of power and class struggle, they are too easy and too moralistic and, frankly, too silly to be taken seriously.
In fact, yes, I'm objecting specifically to RS scape-goating anyone to sell their magazine while the topic is in the headlines .
Whether or not Cassano is a good enough illustration of your "new masters" is actually besides the point.
March 22, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment is defiantly stupid and plumbs the depths of willful ignorance.
March 22, 2009 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering that he *is* the personification of what's evil, that seems totally fair to me. I keep hearing it's legal and I think that if a good prosecutor wanted to really do his country a service, then they should find a way to prosecute this. AFter all, if Martha Stewart can be prosecuted for misleading investors by saying she's innocent to the press, surely falsifying financial reports, misleading balance statements and issuing insurance without capitalization should all be prosecutable.
March 22, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cassano was an ass. He didn't have the math skills to manage the instruments his department created, and fired anyone who had those skills if they didn't follow his direction - which was in no way based on a knowledge (or care) of the risks his division were amassing. This isn't snark, it's a literal fact - he could never handle/understand the math.
If any one man could be said most responsible for this mess, it's Cassano. His division created the first structured debt instruments; and then he edged out any PEER who had the technical skills to actually manage the portfolio and focused almost exclusively on creating derivatives. He's like the Sarah Palin of the financial world - "drill baby drill". Everyone worked for HIM and he's a total control freak. AIG's mess is his baby.
It's what happens when you choose the mentally inferior and aggressive over the intelligent and more risk-averse.
March 22, 2009 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is, indeed, important to try to concentrate on learning from mistakes rather than merely punishing for making them.
In the particular case of Cassano, though.. well, he knew what he was doing, they all do. They are fucking over anyone they can for their personal short-term gain. It is pretty much the lowest-common denominator moral statement one can make to consider such behaviour to be wrong.
It is unlikely any of it was illegal, of course, unless one were to pursue something like dissemination of a de facto currency, or one of the more esoteric opt-in/opt-out clauses in banking legislation that would require the line of business in question to be considered to fall under banking regulation.
From the perspective of getting back to a functioning capitalist wonderland, trying to fix the most egregious problems in the financial systems would be the primary concern here rather than this particular personification of greed; more philosophically, though, it may be better to keep it up front to get people to think about greed and its effect on society.
March 23, 2009 4:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh's front page interview with Prof. Stieglitz from February says in more restrained fashion the same, Obama/Geithner are continuing the Paulson approach of ignoring the fact that if you finance a bank, you must take it over to unify finance and control.
Otherwise those who got us into this problem will continue to enrich themselves and rob us.
It is not a conspiracy theory to think that current and recent denizens of Wall Street filling Obama's economic team will continue to do what they always do, support their greedy cohorts and the culture. That means of sucking money from taxpayers and depleting funds available to more productive segments of business and society.
March 22, 2009 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, in light of your comment it should say a lot about Obama too, given his repeated backing of Geithner in spite of all the outcry. Is he part of the culture of cohorts or has his fabled transition team simply run out of choices?
On the other hand, I think there is a difference between providing a bank with a loan in exchange for certain conditions and an outright takeover.
In the case of AIG, the company is in fact run by a government-appointed CEO. For all intents and purposes, the Goverment has already been running AIG and unified finance and control.
Apart from appointing Josh Marshall the CEO of AIG, what more does he need to be satisfied with the amount of Government control?
March 22, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
AIG should be broken up into pieces, AIGFP should be put into receivership and a court could rule on bonus issues not Geithner or Liddy. William K. Black has written on this in Washington Monthly and discussed it on Diane Rheem (last week). He is a lawyer at UMKC and worked on the S&L bailouts of the 80's.
March 22, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
For that to happen, the court has to become involved following the Ch11 filing. That's not what the government and Josh Marshall are advocating for. They want to nationalize and run a company.
March 22, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please cite proof of said accusation.
March 22, 2009 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how many people who work at Rolling Stone were making a few bucks on the side flipping houses? This sort of over-simplified, us-against-them crud is too stupid for words.
March 22, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bunny...Krugman can't be believed cause of his ego, and the folks at Rolling Stone were (likely) just house flippers..what about Prof. Stieglitz at Columbia, an ego case, house flipper... or?
March 22, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, get a grip. I never said Krugman couldn't be believed. In fact, I said just the opposite:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/dcdanny/2009/03/for-once-krugman-is-wrong-a-de.php#comment-3414708
The problem I'm having is that so many people want to see this situation as in simplistic, cut-and-dried, black-and-white terms: AIG is the enemy, and this is entirely their fault. And Geithner and Summers are in bed with the people who caused this problem, so they can't possibly be trusted to fix it. That's an asinine position, in my opinion. This is a HUGE mess (as Krugman freely admits) and there are a host of players who deserve to share the blame for what's happened. Articles like the one in Rolling Stone are misleading and serve only to fuel ignorant populist rage. It's always so easy to find a villain and then scream, "Off with his head!" Stupid, angry mobs have been doing it since the dawn of man. And it rarely results in justice.
The people who are working to fix this are in completely uncharted territory. To ignorantly state that their plan is doomed to fail or that "we're all fucked" is just boring and juvenile.
March 22, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
That isn't what the article said. The article uses AIG as the centerpiece of a story about the root of the crisis. The author discusses Gramm, the Morgan mafia, Goldman and many other factors.
Did we read the same article? I was riveted, especially by the scale of the story and its ability to render complicated obscurant jargon intelligible for laymen.
March 22, 2009 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't necessarily referring to the Rolling Stone piece.
March 22, 2009 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then why did you question R/S and call it crud? Just asking.
March 22, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll never forgive them for panning "The Hissing of Summer Lawns".
Because the overall slant of the story grinded my ass. And because Taibbi is so completely misinformed about what has happened. And he's spreading his ignorance like peanut butter. Plenty of people have written intelligent articles on the subject. Taibbi isn't one of them.
March 22, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bunny Cat, if you have any info as to where the story is wrong, I'd sure like to see it. It meshed with a lot of other articles I've read. If you have links to opposing perspectives, I'd be interested in reading them.
March 22, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that it's repetitive BS. The author desperately wants to affix the blame to a group of individuals, and he is clearly asserting that someone did this knowingly. And that is just asinine. No one loses money on purpose. The people who did this honestly believed they were going to make a fortune. And if anyone put their financial future in the hands of someone they've never met and have no reason to trust, I'd say the sucker was NOT the person who's being blamed for this. You buys your ticket and you takes your choice. Know what I mean? You've GOT to be a skeptic in this world. And particularly in this capitalist society. To me, it's just to easy to blame others after the fact.
March 22, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, I just went back and tried to re-read it. Tried to find something to like about it. It's just such a boring, ill-informed rehash. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I couldn't find much to like about it.
March 22, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bunny, we may not be actually "f#$%ted" literally, but many have been hurt. My son's financial condition has changed as a result of the "recession", "depression" whatever you want to call it. The house that he could afford a year ago, he cannot afford now. He didn't do any goofy financing, or lie about income. He did everything right. Fortunately, they have been able to sell it for what they owed on it, but the $40K we gave them for the downpayment is gone, and they will be starting over. Not life shattering, but certainly a set-back, and through no fault of his own. He's not going to get a bail-out, or a bonus. He gets to just accept it and move on.
Others have fared much worse.
March 22, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the dose of reality. I take it the bank wouldn't knock off an interest point or two in spite of the sizable downpayment.
What fargin loser morons. Replace them all.
Bonuses for these bankers? Yeah, right. Fargin incompetent boobs do not get bonuses. Claw back time. 90% is too nice.
March 22, 2009 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
His job is so iffy in the current economy, that they were afraid to wait around and see if they would qualify for any programs. They had the opportunity to get out from under it, credit rating unscathed, and did it. Not the path I would have taken, but they are grown ups and had to make their own decision. These darn kids just won't let you live their lives for them! :-)
March 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been in a fairly weird position throughout this debacle (well, actually throughout my entire life). Most of my investments are safely parked outside of the stock market, so I haven't made or lost a whole lot there. My wife and I own an online business, and that's been going great guns lately--mostly due to the fact that many of our customers are overseas and the weaker the dollar gets, the more they buy. I've never owned a house, so I have no real worries about home prices. And I don't have any kids so I don't need to sweat anyone's future. So in some ways, I guess I sort of qualify as an outside observer. And what this observer is seeing is a whole lot of anger. And to me, anger is always, always, always counter-productive. It doesn't help get the problem fixed, and in fact, it usually makes things worse.
My favorite activities in life are hitch-hiking, hopping freights and camping under the stars. And when you spend a lot of time doing those things, you learn one very important lesson: you learn to love f*cked-up situations, because you're in them all the time. You learn to love being stuck in the freezing rain with a soaking wet sleeping bag and a tent that's ripped to shreds. You learn to love hiking through miles of knee-deep Black Hills mud after a thunderstorm. You learn to love breaking your ankle in a canyon in the desert and spending a week in the middle of nowhere unable to fit your swollen, black and blue foot into your boot. You learn to love freezing your ass off in the desert cold while you try to get some sleep under a piece of cardboard in the middle of a highway cloverleaf. You either learn to love these things or you learn to hate them. But if you hate them, it doesn't change a thing. It just means that you'll just be miserable AND angry.
I don't love capitalism. But I've learned not to hate it (and believe me, it took some effort on my part). And I'll be damned if I'll let what's happened to our economy convince me to hate any of the people who were involved in getting us here. I'm with Obama. Let's just fix this thing and leave the vengeance to God. I love this economy. I love it, I love it, I love it. I mean, seriously--when this is all over, aren't you going to be proud to have lived in this amazing time? Maybe pride is not the right word, but dammit, I love every second of my life. Ask Lux if he ever comes back. Ask him what he thinks of all this.
"Faith is to believe what you do not yet see. The reward for this faith is to see what you believe."
- St. Augustine
Smart guy.
March 22, 2009 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you have a very healthy perspective, but in large part you are able to have it because you ARE detached, and are not being affected as much as many.
I am still doing okay financially. Not as well as I was a year ago, but better than many, and if it weren't for the cavalier attitude of the people who created this mess, I would probably be more ambivalent about it. But what just sticks in my craw is that they are not showing the least bit of remorse. Maybe my values are just different than theirs, but if I had inadvertantly screwed over somebody the way they have screwed over all of us, I would be scampering to see how I could make it right. And I NEVER would have done it, knowing I was doing it.
Bonuses in my company would have been cut off, and if I were legally obligated to pay them and the people wouldn't refuse to accept them, I would lay them off. I would not want people like that working for me. As for the talent? How much talent does it take to bankrupt the world? I could banrupt the world. Many of the people who have received "retention" bonuses have already left the companies...
The whole situation is appalling, and downright frickin' wrong. And since there is abosolutely nothing I can do about it, I'm going to bitch until I feel better, then I'm going to move on. Those lucky ones like you can read about the stuff that matters to you all, and leave the rest of us to wallow 'till we're done wallowing. Hopefully it won't take me long, but I won't be over it today. And maybe not even tomorrow. But I will get over it eventually, and by then somebody else will have pissed me off. Believe me, it was a lot easier when I didn't care. But then Bush was in office. I like it better now, bitching and all!
March 22, 2009 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...in large part you are able to have it because you ARE detached..."
Not to blow my own horn, but that's by choice, and it hasn't been entirely painless. You work on detachment, and you make choices that you don't always personally approve of. :)
"they are not showing the least bit of remorse"
Nor should they. They're capitalists. A good capitalist never considers emotion. They may be very beautiful people in the real world, but it in the world of finance, being a cold, ruthless motherf*cker is considered a sign of character. These people are only looking at the numbers and the bottom line. In the end, I think we'll all be glad of that.
"I'm going to bitch until I feel better, then I'm going to move on."
As you should. That's the way of a warrior. Pick a subject and dump on them. Relieve yourself of your grievances. Then move on. It's an honorable way. But never hold grudges. That's the most important part.
March 22, 2009 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone really believe these bankers had the little guy in mind when they were doing all of this? Many if not most are so removed from the average citizen, they never considered how this would affect us. If they did, they simply shrugged and told themselves, whatever, this is about me.
I see that callous attitude as the fundamental difference between the President and Wall street. I truly believe he is thinking about us. He understands and cares that actions have consequences. Whatever he's doing, whether we like it or not, I believe he's doing it with us in mind.
Some people believe in working smart not hard. Becoming president to get rich, has to be one of the most difficult ways to achieve wealth that I can think of.
Bush and Cheney were stupid enough to take the hard and long route, Barack Obama is not. If accumulating wealth was his motive, he didn't have to run for president to achieve his goal.
March 22, 2009 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why should any banker think about average citizen?
I thought bankers work for banks, not churches.
Does everyone have to think about an average citizen?
Who does an average citizen have to think about?
March 22, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because like it or not we are all connected. Our actions have consequences that can affect another, and another and another....
March 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its called ethics you dingbat. But your moral subjectivism is noted in the Akashic record.
March 22, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're totally right. Everyone needs to think about an "average" citizen. Including "average" citizen.
Because an average citizen is incapable of thinking for himself.
An average citizen is incapable of thinking straight and saying "no" to a pile of cash for refinancing. Incapable of not going to a shopping mall (there is nothing on TV!!), incapable of having a goal in life other than "eat/sleep/watch TV/spend money/get fat".
Average citizen is a very sensitive and vulnerable creature, very easily manipulated by others.
It's much better when an average citizen is told what he should do next and gently directed by the wonderfully kind and caring government.
March 22, 2009 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't say anything like that, but thanks for playing.
Ethics. That's all. You can box shadows or smash straw men but it does not mitigate the truth of and need for ethics up and down the human food chain. I find you tiresome, facile, and wicked. Go pound sand.
March 22, 2009 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ethics is a concept for pussies. Real capitalists discount ethics as irrelevant. I don't say this to be disrespectful. I say it to jog you out of your leftie, self-righteous complacency. What you think should be right ain't worth shit. The only thing that counts is reality.
March 22, 2009 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but AIG is a public company. It's not leftie moral subjectivism to observe that there is a legal fiduciary responsibility to make decisions that don't take money AVERAGE CITIZENS have invested and eliminate the value while simulatinously reaping vast personal wealth from those same decisions. That is the law regardless what the tenants of raw fuck-everyone-but-me-in-the-ass capitalism say.
Those who believe ethics are for pussies while handling other people's money find themselves in jail, getting their asses kicked, or both. Or do you think the money AIGFP was trading with oozed out of Cassano's butt?
I totally agree that the witch-hunt over some bonuses for the guys trying to wind this thing down is ill advised and just plain wrong. At the same time, I do think there is a compelling case that genuine issues of malfeasance exist. But that's what criminal investigators are for. Mob justice isn't justice. And this tax thing is plain stupid. They are going to leave it to Reid to play dad again ... and then we'll get to hear everyone whine like teenagers who can't use the car on Saturday night. It is pretty pathetic.
(Haven't seen your avatar in a while ... think you're opinion is partially off base on this, but nice to see ya!)
March 22, 2009 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummm... Last time I checked, ethics is required study in business. Ethics is for pussies to me is the same as calling the Geneva Conventions quaint. I hope you are being provocative, because if this is your worldview, we have nothing to say to one another. I am finding the smog of contemptibleyuppiescum relativism in this thread to be not just obnoxious but weak. The real pussy is the person who bilks retirement funds in order to gamble on magic beans.
I am ethical. I am not a pussy. I have crossed the Euphrates with a hundred grand on my back in Haflditha. I also never lost a dime of taxpayer money. Those fuckheads who played Casino with the American Dream are beneath dignity. Dante would onow what to do.
March 22, 2009 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Real capitalists need to be subjected to the law of the jungle then, I say unleash the hoards on their asses.
March 22, 2009 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those old men will kick your pansy ass. I swear to God.
March 22, 2009 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The average citizen is the reason there is a bank. The bank serves at their convenience, not the other way around.
Playing irresponsibly with their money, and then making obscene profits from it, is a society breaker. I don't want to live in a busted society. Contracts are broken everyday here in reality. They have to live in it as much as I do.
Your world has a greenish twinge to it, it's not the reality of 90% of your countrymen. Get a grip.
March 22, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit.
The average citizen is a myth.
It's a statistic that's been given a life all its own by politicians and the amazingly clever intellectual people who read Rolling Stone for the explanation of what's wrong with the world.
March 22, 2009 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell that to the average citizen. They aren't all as cowardly as you, Lalo. They'll stick up not just for themselves, but their neighbors and co-workers.
It's called decency.
March 22, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
My coworkers stuck their heads in the sand and did nothing when my ass was on the line. Some workers have forgotten how the look out for each other. They got caught in the spin of corporate meritocracy.
March 22, 2009 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dread the thought of living in a world where it is every man for himself. Figure out where the soft underbellies are, get yours, with no regard for what it does to anyone else, then run off to the next scam. It's not illegal, so why not?
Hopefully an average citizen is balancing his needs with the needs of his neighbors. I do not recall ever having made it up a rung on the ladder by pushing someone else off. I did it with hard work, frugal spending practices and deferred gratification. Novel concepts these days...
March 22, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you sir. You have just sounded the trumpet blast that signals the Apocalypse.
Thirty years ago I used to attend AIB (American Institute Of Banking) seminars when senior and retired bank executives lectured on various aspects of that industry. They were always effusive about the pride they felt in their careers of serving the needs of the public by way of banking services. No product, no service and no instrumentality existed for its own sake. They all served an institution which had a meaning for the community as a whole.
But not today as you so clearly have explained here. And you announce what is next with equal clarity. The average person should go to their church, say a prayer, and then start to think and think hard about what is coming next. You played the notes perfectly.
March 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
See, this is why I blame Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman. Those two preached the false ideology that greed is good - and persuaded people who were begging for an excuse to be greedy that it was okay - even virtuous to destroy the economy, businesses, jobs and anything that got int he way of their search for every possible dollar.
They said we have no responsibility to the community and to each other - an that is evil.
March 22, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greed is a fact of life, regardless of the moral assessment of it as good or bad. It has always existed and will always exist.
It's part of human condition, like fear, jealousy, lies, love, pride, etc. Deal with it.
March 22, 2009 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Murder is also part of the human condition - a fact of life. We deal with it by punishing it. Greed can be dealt with as well, but not by making it a virtue, but by recognizing it as a vice.
March 22, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you completely nuts???
March 22, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm, You asking me to lay down while you slit my throat. I don't think so Mr. That's how a I'm reading what you said so far.
March 22, 2009 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's impossible to exagerate how thorougly the survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, ethos has permeated American culture. Maybe FDR had more luck with those fireside chats back when people didn't believe ethics were just for easy marks in the global casino of life.
March 22, 2009 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it's even in the constitution - that everyone is created equal and entitled to pursuit of happiness. key words - everyone, equal, pursuit of happiness.
March 22, 2009 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's the matter? Like Rush - still confusing the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. So what's the first abuse on their list?
"He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. ..."
It's that old-fashioned rule of law thing. Don't blame you for forgetting about it. It fell into disuse in the last administration.
March 22, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry bluebell, didn't see you post.
March 22, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
"your"
March 22, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ironic you would make the same mistake as Rush Limbaugh. The Declaration of Independence from which your "key words" come from, is a statement announcing to the world that the thirteen colonies were no longer subject to Great Britain but were free and independent states.
The intent didn't give individuals the right to go willy, nilly into the night, pursuing our freedom at the expense or detriment of others.
http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm
March 22, 2009 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Somehow, I don't think Lalo will respond to your excellent post. He doesn't do well when he makes a complete ass of himself in a way that is indisputable.
He loves to appear all-knowing, and condescending, and then when he doesn't know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, he just goes back into his hole and waits until next time, hoping we all will have forgotten.
NOT HARDLY! Lalo! Put that Lincoln hat over someone else's head, like Cheney, or Ronnie -- it would fit your rhetoric better!
March 22, 2009 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. Everyone is equal, and so if someone big ans strong and with a gun comes to your house and forces his way in and steals your money and kills a few people, well...I guess you just weren't equal to the task of defending yourself. Equal playing field and all that, huh? Why even HAVE laws? We could have an Animal Farm society, where some are MORE EQUAL than others. The shock will come to you when the person who is smarter and stronger, and (maybe even) meaner than you, faces you off and you lose everything.
Lalo, I don't want to live in your world. Why don't you move on down to Texas and join the Bush's?
March 22, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aside from mistaking the source document, the pursuit of happiness is not guaranteed without regard to the consequences. For example, I think it might make me happy to spit in your face. But, that's when my happiness impinges on yours, so I don't do it.
March 22, 2009 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to believe you are just funnin' with us...You can't possibly be serious. Is that it? You're being snarky and it just went over our heads? Now THAT makes sense. Otherwise I'd be afraid you were having a psychotic break.
March 22, 2009 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for this post. And it was a good idea to bring a hammer to the mirror maze but as you can see no one really wants to swing it. They’d all rather just argue about which reflection is the best likeness. They forget that the point of a maze is to find your way out. And this carnival side show never closes. So if we are not to starve to death, someone must step up and swing the hammer and get us out of here?
March 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Swing away, Larry.
March 22, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I blame Ronald Reagan. Back in the 80's he said "Greed is good," not Ambition, Innovation, Initiative, Industry - nope Greed. And people adopted that perverse idea. People began to believe that Greed is a virtue, not a vice. Americans worshipped wicked men like Al Dunlap of Scott Paper who destroyed companies and jobs for money. Laying off workers and stripping company assets was praised as good business even though it weakened the economy and our society.
And of course, if Milton Friedman had only been a janitor, the entire world would be better off. Few people have done as much harm as he has without actually being a dictator of firing a gun.
March 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great points. I would say that Ayn Rand influenced those folks tremendously. Who can forget the chapter in Atlas Shrugged titled THE UTOPIA OF GREED. Ugh, and I once enjoyed that stuff.
You're absolutely right, until you work in maintenance or as a bus-boy you shouldn't push a single economic perspective. Not one!
March 22, 2009 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM'ers please ignore the guy with the rabbit in his hat, McClatchy is reporting that As credit markets froze, banks loaned millions to insiders
Banks doubled their lending to directors, top executives and other insiders, in some cases doubling the dollar amount by the end of 2008, the total now being at least $41 billion.
This is exactly the kind of behavior the Rolling Stone piece is discussing.
This while many or most taking billions in federal bailout money directly or laundered thru AIG, and letting above average, average and below average citizens and businesses swing in the wind.
March 22, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, NobleWhatever. Fight it out with me directly. Don't be a freakin' pussy. If we have a philosophical disagreement, let's resolve it. Arguing is good. How can we make progess if we engage in sniping from behind a hedgerow? Say what you have to say, but address the person you disagree with directly.
March 22, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
You go on doing nothing bunnycat. Why should you? You aren't hurting. Right? We should just stand by and watch others get trampled on, because God Hisself will sort out the saints from the sinners.
Why get those lil cute bunnykat paws dirty mucking around in stuff that is waaaay beneath you?
Let the ones that are hurting fix it, sure. Just don't piss down our backs and tell us it's manna from Heaven. I'm afraid that takes seriously lofty thoughts to comprehend. I'm afraid that unlike you, I haven't figured out to put my head that far up the corporate overlords high on the hog backside, nor am I particularly interested in doing so. There's a term for that. It's sellout.
I'm much more of a realist. I truly do believe that I am for whom that bell tolls, even if I'm not the one wrapped up in the coffin.
Philosophical enough for ya?
Good.
March 22, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aw, come on, bwak. You've been into the whiskey again, right? If I'm anything, I'm a populist. But I believe that the public should reserve their outrage for situations where it really counts. And this situation simply isn't one of them. I love ya, my chickeny brother, but you're simply grasping at straws here. This is not simple, nor is it easy. And there are no villains in this situation. The Bush administration demanded that the ecomony show some results and the dudes on the right complied. But seriously--did anyone, you included--believe them? If so, then you got what you deserved. And if not, then what are you complaining about?
This is one of those situations where capitalism looks like it has failed. Ultimately, it will become one of capitalism's great triumphs.
March 22, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you asking me if I knew medical insurance would go up 400%, oil up 300% and ater 20 years of flat wages, that my job would go overseas?
No. I didn't. My bad.
I didn't expect my kid to get a chronic illness either, but hey, it is comforting to hear we all got what we deserved
I love you, too bunnycat, but I'm afraid I just don't see where you are coming from.
March 22, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bull. There are indeed villains. I'll accept that venting outrage toward them at this point is counterproductive, but the leap to "no villains" is unsustainable.
So, those sounding the whistle shouldn't complain now because they knew it all along ... and those with the wool over their eyes shouldn't complain because they are stupid, and therefore deserve to be ripped off? That's not a very compelling argument.
March 22, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I'm saying is that, like it or not, this is capitalism. You want something else? Tough shit for you. I'm just trying to get people to come to terms with the rules of engagement. Once that has happened, then we'll talk. This is far bigger than you or me.
March 22, 2009 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that there should be villians, but the dynamics of capitalism decree that only those who actually break the law qualify as criminals. So Bernie Madoff is guilty. But AIG? What did they do that was illegal? I absolutely agree that what they did was stupid, irresponsible, amoral and incompetent, but the fault, in my opinion, deserves to be laid squarely in the lap of George W. Bush. This notion that the Obama administration deserves to share in the blame for what happened is absurd, in my opinion. It's like the Republican argument that Bill Clinton was responsible for 9/11. I can't believe so many on the left are buying into this manipulative crap.
March 23, 2009 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hold on a second. I never blamed this on Obama. That would be amazingly asinine.
But I'm not willing to say laws weren't broken. I don't know that much about economics, but I do know some of the types of questions investigators are asking the guys at AIGFP. Let's just say they've moved well beyond the questions about shorting they were asking last June.
The multiple investigations are not a conviction by any means, but they sure aren't an indicator that no laws were broken. Just don't be surprised if Cassano joins the guys from WorldCom and Enron (if we can ever get him back into the country ... he's gone Marc Rich on us).
March 23, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the post. This IS the best part.
Abso-f*cking-lutely.
C
March 22, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. I mean, wow. Hard to argue against that. What really got me was--toward the end--where it points out that we have essentially gone all in on the AIG business model. The model which is an unequivocal disaster.
Rec'd and cross-posted and to be handed out tomorrow at work. Jesus. Still trying to digest it.
March 22, 2009 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would be interested to hear what your co-workers think about the article!
March 23, 2009 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good night, all enlightened ones. Oh, and the rest of you too.
March 22, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
whew, for a minute, thought I would be ignored...hahahaha
Nite
Great new avatar!
March 22, 2009 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post and a great article in RS!
March 23, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Fixing" blockquotes
When you are working in the blog entry screen, it defaults to defaults to "format Rich Text." Most of the time this is fine, but it makes the html coding invisible. If you have a problem - like empty blockquotes - you cannot see it or get rid of it.
Solution?
Go to the "Format" selection box and select "Convert line breaks." This will display your post with all of the html codes in place.
All html code is in pairs (starting code starts with a greater than sign code less than sign, and ends with a greater than sign / code less than sign). Look for blockquotes without any text in them.
Find your blockquotes and look for ones similar to the example above. If there is not text quoted, then delete both parts of the blockquote pair.
(You likely already know that you have to select the "extended entry" screen from the tab to see that text. )
When you are done, you can reselect the "Rich text" format and save your post.
Sorry for the cumbersome code instructions but the system wouldn't let me make even a close approximation of the actual code.
March 23, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you sooooooo much! I appreciate how all you more experienced techno types are so willing to help us that are so horribly challenged! One of the MANY things I love about this place!
March 23, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are more than welcome.
I have posted a more expanded cheat sheet here that shows basic formatting codes, and answers a couple of TPM entry questions I have seen elsewhere.
March 23, 2009 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink