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Military Doctors


Nidal Malik Hasan was an Army Psychiatrist.  Although I did not know him, I thought I could provide general background about what his career and service obligations were, and I can also share personal experience of being a doctor in the military.  

He graduated in 1997 with a degree in biochemistry and was in the ROTC.  He then went to the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences (USUHS) in Bethesda, MD.  He graduated from medical school in 2001 (medical school is 4 years).  He then did his residency in psychiatry at Walter Reed (5 years for residency).  He most likely finished that in 2006.  At that point he would have been on active duty at least 9 years, and most likely owed at least seven, and perhaps 9 years more before he would be released.  Medical school at USUHS confers a 7 year commitment, and he may have had extra time for residency.  

I served for four years in the Air Force as a  physician, but I was trained at civilian institutions.  My four year obligation was incurred as a result of the military financing most of my civilian medical education.  Roughly 75 percent of the doctors I worked with hated being in the military and were just biding their time until they could get out.  We were under immense pressure from all sides.  It was extremely difficult to even give average medical care.  Usually you had to settle for less than standard care just to remain sane.  It was an incredibly stressful situation.  I worked with a few good physicians, but in general, military physicians have a different philosophy.  The command structure of the Medical Corps is extremely dysfunctional.

It was much harder for the USUHS grads because they had a longer obligation.  Although many of us were unhappy, there was virtually no way to get out early without ruining your medical career.  For example, there was no option to get out and repay the military for the cost of your education.

After I separated (got out), I heard one of the doctors I worked with allegedly threatened to bring a gun to work and shoot the commander.  I never heard what happened to him, but he probably lost his medical license at the very least.

This doctor must have been under a great deal of stress.  He served at at Walter Reed during the time it was receiving extremely bad publicity in the national press.  He was probably dealing with extra pressure because of the national scrutiny.    I would speculate that he was depressed, suicidal, and must have felt so isolated and hopeless that he saw no other way out.  It is still shocking that he would chose such an abhorrent action. 

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Perhaps the worst issue in being a military psychiatrist is if your CO tells you to use your psyche exam to boot someone out of the service. It happens.

Positive side which clearly wasn't relevant in this case is, at least if you get educated on Uncle Sam's dime you have few or no debt, and a mostly young healthy population to treat.

Unless of course a war or two are started by some joyous every day tinpot Republican dim wit dictator from Texas.

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Plus he would have been working with wounded soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan who had severe head wounds and/or traumatic stress disorder from their combat experiences.

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Its not hard to imagine that the shooter thinks our current wars are wrong and that it bothers him a lot. I think they are wrong and they bother me a lot.

It is not hard for me to imagine that he has empathy and an instinctive inclination to side with and empathize with his own ethnic ancestors. It is the way I am.

It is easy to imagine that in his position he has heard many horrible stories from soldiers about killing rag-heads or from soldiers that hate rag-heads that killed their buddies.

Trying to help these soldiers resolve living with their demons so they can go back and do it some more must have caused him horrible conflicts as to his own duty to his country, to his own sense of morality. to his own sense of humanity, etc.

The very first thing I thought when I heard that he was a Muslim is that he was probably sick and tired of being called a rag-head. I think I heard that he was. I would doubt that he wasn't. I expect that that phrase is very common usage. I know it would piss me off.

It all piled up and made him crazy. I think it would make many people crazy. Some crazy people go nuts and start shooting. If they do it in a foreign country against a declared enemy they often are called heroes. This guy won't get any medals.

Twelve more families are feeling gut wrenching loss. Some members of some of those families will come to hate rag-heads. Some of them might go crazy.

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You are more sympathetic than I am toward this person. If initial reports are true, his actions are wrong, reprehensible, evil. Whether he was called names, or under the violent strain of his religion or against the war is irrelevant. There is no excuse for his actions. Actions make the man, and in this case, he is evil.

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"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him." --Fyodor Dostoyesvski

It is important to ask about the contributing factors in cases like this; in fact in all criminal cases, but more important here to discover stressors in order to prevent more tragedies like this. Some have called this "Columbine-like", some are already calling it "jihadist-terrorism." We will never know all of the truth, and we will be left with polarized opinions in the end.
All of us are capable of evil acts in certain situations. We can only hope that where there have been extra stressors within the Military Medical Corps (severe lack of psychiatrists), etc., or 'unit cohesion', i.e. harrassment, whatever, it will be good to find out, and help change things for the better.
I don't hink of it as looking for 'excuses' for his actions, but trying to understand the factors that took him over the cliff.

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Some people are pushed off a cliff...others jump willingly. Pre-meditated mass murder while *allegedly* shouting allahu akbar falls into the latter category for me.

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And you don't think it's worthwhile to try to understand why he jumped willingly?

I'm not sympathetic to the guy, but at the same time trying to prevent these tragedies in the future requires us to try to understand what led to this.

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Don't you think it's obvious what led to this? He did not want to be deployed, he lacks theory of mind - he has no empathy, understanding or compassion for others. That is why people do these things, they cannot fathom that others lead lives as stressful and painful as they do. We cannot prevent these kinds of tragedies because by nature they are unpredictable and motives are as individual as the person rampaging.

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Don't get me started on "Theory of Mind". That so-called theory has probably done more damage than any other theory in psychology, including "penis envy" and "Oedipal complex".

That said, lacking theory of mind is not synonymous with lacking empathy or compassion. As a psychiatrist, it's pretty much impossible to claim that he lacks "theory of mind". You can claim he's a sociopath, or whatever, but he can definitely reason out that, for example, if he sees me hide a toy in a box before you enter the room that you won't know the toy is in the box even though he does.

To your larger point, such a simplistic answer (even if the facts were correct) isn't an answer at all. I'm looking for an answer that helps prevent future atrocities. I'm not interested in an answer that absolves everyone else of blame.

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You cannot prevent these kind of tragedies. There is a simple answer - we cannot prevent them, we cannot stop them and they will continue to happen in our society. Human beings commit these kinds of crimes because they DO lack theory of mind. They are incapable of empathy and compassion for others. They are suffering, so they feel entitled to inflict that kind of suffering on others.

Why do you think that stress factors cause these things to take place? Stress certainly contributes to the perpetrator's state of mind, but they are NOT the cause. I have never known anyone who has exhibited criminal behavior or perpetrated crimes to not claim they were "stressed", but billions of people are stressed or living in stressful conditions and they do not rape, murder, steal, rob and generally inflict pain and suffering on others.

Understanding theory of mind is to understand our evolution as a species. Human beings would not have evolved successfully as a species without empathy and compassion for others.

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I never claimed we can completely stop them. We can, however, help prevent them. We can reduce their likelihood, but only if we are willing to examine all causes, ultimate and proximate, and not limit ourselves to simplistic descriptions.

Since you keep bringing up "theory of mind", please read up on what it actually means. You're not using it correctly. I don't like the theory of "theory of mind", but it doesn't mean what you think it means, either. In short form, theory of mind means being able to reason out what someone else, with a different perspective, is thinking. I have no real objections with it being used to describe nonhumans, although I think invalid assumptions are made even there. Where I object to its use the most is in researchers who apply it to people with autism. I'll admit this is partly due to personal experience, but that personal experience has taught me that what some researchers see as an inability to understand what others are thinking is sometimes actually an unwillingness (in certain situations, quite typically in situations where there is an artificial experiment being conducted) to try to understand what others are thinking.

That rant aside, theory of mind is not equivalent with compassion and empathy. You can lack theory of mind and still be compassionate, and you have have theory of mind and still lack compassion.

So, unless you're really invested in somehow redefining "theory of mind", let's stick to your core thesis that there are people who lack compassion and empathy and we can't do anything about it. (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so let me know if you think I'm misrepresenting your core thesis.)

You base this partly on the idea that others experience the same stressors and don't snap. I'll challenge that supposition somewhat, but it's largely from a theoretical point-of-view, so I don't expect your agreement. The same events in my life and in my life do not cause the same stresses as those events interact with previous events, including our upbringing, and with our biochemistry, neuroanatomy, etc. In fact, you allude to this with your misrepresentation of "theory of mind". You seem to be simultaneously suggesting that the perpetrator couldn't help it while suggesting he is the only one responsible. Those two suggestions seem incompatible to me. Maybe I'm reading too much into what you wrote, though.

Regardless, my central thesis is that there are lessons we can learn that can help prevent these tragedies in the future. It seems hard to imagine there aren't. Here are a few: (1) We could identify more sociopaths before they strike. (2) We could reduce environmental events that result in sociopaths becoming violent. (3) We could treat sociopaths in an effort to rehabilitate some of them. (Being a sociopath does not make you evil. It's a psychological condition that can be treated. Maybe not cured, but treated.)

I do want to end by saying that I am not a psychologist nor a psychiatrist. I have worked with many research psychologists and have done graduate research in brain modeling, but my usage of psychological terms might be inexact. Nevertheless, I will stick 100% by my initial statement that you are definitely using "theory of mind" incorrectly.

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I am not using "theory of mind incorrectly". Quite frankly, I don't think you understand it. Yes, it means that that homo sapiens are able to reason and draw conclusions from the behavior of others, but you cannot reason or intuit the intentions, meanings and reasoning of other human beings without empathy and compassion for others. Homo sapiens are not instinctive, they are reflexive and reflexive behavior in human beings is mostly learned behavior. We learn how to act in society and how to co-operate in human groupings because it is advantageous to our evolution. (And yes, our brains are hardwired for certain reflexive behaviors, but most of our behavior is learned.)

Of course this man is responsible for his own behavior - I certainly did not in any way diagnose him as a sociopath, but even sociopaths can mimic and understand right and wrong behaviors in society. (And sociopaths are able to sublimate their anti-social behavior, which might explain why so many doctors are sociopaths. Just kidding...kind of.)) You seem to be the one looking for simplistic answers - you seem to think there is someway to predict and prevent this kind of human tragedy and there is just NO way to do so at this time. Is it brain chemistry, nurture, nature or a combination of any of these? Aberrent behavior by definition is unpredictable for the precise answer that it is aberrent. I won't even mention the legal, social and moral dilemmas inherent in behavior prediction. Our societal contract does not allow us to detain people because we think they might commit a crime, our contract only allows us to detain and punish that kind of behavior after they commit crimes, not before.

You're looking for answers where there are none. Criminal motivation is as individual as the person committing the crime. In someways you remind me of FBI criminal profilers who seem to think that you can predict criminal behavior. Their generalizations and predictions have never once in the history of profiling ever solved any crime. Why? Because generalizations about human behavior are just that - generalizations.

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In a nutshell, theory of mind suggests that one is able to predict what another person is thinking based on that other person's perspective, right? If we're in agreement on that, then how does that necessarily imply compassion? Do you not agree that I could completely understand what you are thinking but not give a damn?

you seem to think there is someway to predict and prevent this kind of human tragedy and there is just NO way to do so at this time.

I do thnk that there are some times when we can anticipate this kind of human tragedy. (I keep emphasizing this lack of completeness, but I'm not sure you realize the distinction I'm making.) Do you think we are never able to and hence shouldn't even try?

Aberrent behavior by definition is unpredictable

No, it's not. By definition aberrant behavior is unusual or "departing substantially from the norm of a group". That does not imply unpredictability. To take an extreme example, it's unusual that the moon eclipses the sun, but we can predict it quite easily. (That's not to say humans are anyway near as easy to anticipate.)

Our societal contract does not allow us to detain people because we think they might commit a crime

Actually, in extreme cases, it does. We have people institutionalized if we have good reason to suspect they will be of harm to themselves or others. I know someone (my step-brother) who was institutionalized for that reason.

You're looking for answers where there are none.

No answers? None at all? Surely you will acknowledge that's hyperbole, right?

In someways you remind me of FBI criminal profilers who seem to think that you can predict criminal behavior.

Again, are you suggesting that no prediction is possible? Do you think that all criminal behavior is random? I have never suggested that all behavior can be predicted, but if you can anticipate and prevent even some criminal behavior shouldn't we at least try?

I remind you of FBI criminal profilers. Your arguments remind me of those who think that the "mysteries of the universe" are unknowable, so we shouldn't waste our time discovering things like electricity, etc.

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'Human beings would not have evolved successfully as a species without empathy and compassion for others.'
Where is you evidence that 'human HAVE evolved successfully', BevD?
I also am sad to hear that you are not well, and send good wishes to you.

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I don't define success as good or bad - homo sapiens have certainly evolved successfully in that they're still here. Other human species have failed to evolve. I consider many other species to have successfully evolved, the roach being the most successful of all - that doesn't mean that I think they're good.

Thanks very much for your good wishes, I really appreciate them.

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This depends if you're hungry or not . . .

I consider many other species to have successfully evolved, the roach being the most successful of all - that doesn't mean that I think they're good.

After all, millions of people on this earth do consume roaches for roaches are high in protein and fat free.

I enjoy a good grub now and then.

~OGD~

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Gee, you'd think that a psychiatrist who was feeling depressed and suicidal would have enough fucking brains to seek help.

Here we have a man who spent his adult life in the military and using the military to advance his education and the moment he is threatened with deployment hires and attorney to agitate for his separation, begins a public rant by blogging with his full name and when those tactics didn't work rages and rampages through his base killing 12 people and injuring 31 more. I doubt that being called a "camel jockey" or a "raghead" had as much to do with this as his utter selfishness and sense of entitlement.

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Depression is treatable.

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And you'd think he would know that, wouldn't you?

How are you old friend?

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Yes. He should know how to evaluate his own stress level, and he should know what to do about it when he is off the charts.

Any trained medical professionals around him should know, too. Unfortunately, we won't get to hear about that. We'll hear that he was somehow a loner. The military has a very ugly habit of publicly smearing the lowest ranking members and not taking responsibility for its fuckups, especially when those fuckups involve neglecting mental health issues. If the guy had a history, why did this happen? We'll probably never know.

Meanwhile, I'm good, BevD, thanks. Hope life is treating you well. Nice to see you around. You've been missed. ;-)

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Oh, you can bet that some low ranking officer(s) is going to be cashiered for this - in the military, shit rolls downhill.

I have good days and bad days. My son is on his third deployment to Iraq and my cancer which I beat before has metastized with a pretty dismal diagnosis. I can still do my volunteer work at the community food bank, people have been generous and my family and friends are wonderful. I'm glad to hear you're doing well and you've been missed as well.

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Can I just say that, if anyone can beat that new sucker punch, it's you; judging from your writing and reading, you remind me of an Amazon. Wishing you care providers of the angelic genius type so you don't have to exercise the Amazonian qualites, of course. :-)

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Amen & seconded. Go Bev!

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I'm sorry to hear you have not been well, Bev. I had no idea. If you're ever up for it, please drop me a line. I'd love to correspond, although I realize it may be arduous for you. You can find my email under my profile at my much-neglected blog:

http://readytoblowagasket.blogspot.com/

For whatever it's worth, I'm pulling for you, Bev. You're doing great, and once again, I am in awe of you.

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Yeah, and some of the drugs used to treat it are suspected of causing aggressive suicidal behavior. He had access to drugs. He might have been self-medicating.

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Is there a reason that I get more info on this mess from you at our little cafe than almost 24 hours of coverage on cable?

Thank you. You provide insights as someone who walked the walk.

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I have compassion for both the dead and wounded and their families (who are suffering), as well as for the gun-man who would have been forced to prescribe anti-depressants to keep soldiers "fighting" when everything inside them was screaming to get out of there.

It is clear this man must be deeply troubled.

It is another sign that our military is unable to help those who need mental health care. Even those who provide it apparently need it!

I know for myself how deeply vicarious suffering can affect a therapist.

I grieve for all.

Peace be with you.

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All psychiatrists are crazy. That's why they go into psychiatry in the first place.

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You are bad. You (and Dr. Hasan) have further fed my own prejudices gleaned from anecdote. (Non-clinical anecdotal evidence, that is. In my work, it's not uncommon to get to know a number of pyschiatrists a bit, as they often collect art. The worst, however, was one of my landlords--totally nuts and difficult to communicate with, like talking to a Martian, he seemed to misintepret everything most humans say.) Honestly, I tend to shudder when thinking about if I ever had the need for the services of a pyschiatrist. How would one go about finding a rare one that was well-balanced and relatively sane?

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Give 'em one of your most inscrutable paintings to interpret as a quasi-Rorsach test! Then judge 'em by what they glean from it!

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They exist. I know some.

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During the latter stages of the Vietnam war, I knew someone in the US Navy who was granted an honorable discharge on the basis of "psychological hardship" after two years of service. The extraordinary thing to me, as well as to some of the other families on base I knew at the time, was that the psychological hardship was not his own; rather, it was that of his wife.
A few years later, when everyone we had known in that time was either dead, or finally out of the military with honorable discharges, we ran into the man in question who, over dinner, revealed that his honorable discharge was the result of a carefully-calculated and patiently implemented strategy.
He had carefully researched the grounds for honorable discharge, identified "psychological hardship" as legitimate grounds for an application, and further discovered that it did not have to be he himself, but rather, could be his spouse who was diagnosed as suffering, or showing the symptoms of suffering, from the precursor of PTS. According to him, the couple decided that though the risk of getting his application turned down was probably higher if the claim was based on the mental health of his spouse, the long-term risk to his future prospects was lower. And so his wife, through the base grapevine, located a politically-sympathetic military psychiatrist who, after several sessions, wrote a supportive letter to the unit captain recommending that the man be discharged, honorably, because his wife was (I paraphrase): "psychologically ill-suited to be married to a military man, particularly in a time of war."
I relate this story because I assumed that PTS tragedies like the one under discussion occur in ever greater numbers because such loopholes had been shut down long since; otherwise, how could servicemen and women with clear symptoms of PTS be ruthlessly sent back to complete multiple tours, or feel obligated to send others to multiple tours? But a quick search on Google this morning revealed this link:
http://www.answers.com/topic/military-discharge
Although the text I read no longer addresses the mental health of spouses, it does clearly say:
"....To receive an honorable discharge, a service member must have received a rating from good to excellent for their service. Service members who meet or exceed the required standards of duty performance and personal conduct, and who complete their tours of duty, normally receive honorable discharges. However, one need not complete a term of service to receive an honorable discharge, provided the reason for involuntary discharge is not due to misconduct. For instance, a person rendered physically or psychologically incapable of performing assigned duties will normally have their service characterized as honorable, regardless of whether the condition or disability was incurred in the line of duty, provided they otherwise exceeded standards.
If these grounds for honorable discharge still exist, surely people are applying for honorable discharge on this basis. And if they are being refused, why is that refusal not a matter for appeal?

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That would never work for a military doctor with a remaining time commitment.

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This debate about theory of mind aside, this just seems like the VTech shooter, another case of a troubled person who left a trail of breadcrumbs that no one followed.

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Can everyone agree that it's a real high risk gamble to sign up for the military in order to get benefits (whether that may be medical training or other type of education or even just three squares a day) hoping that one won't get involved in a war? They give those benefits for a reason, because it's hard to get people to sign up without them. Because people aren't that dumb, they know there's going to be wars (or peacekeeping, or just dangerous rescue activities, or how about just dangerous training and practice activities?)

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Agreed. I almost did this after graduating from college, on the assumption that I would never see any action. I failed the physical due to incredibly bad eye sight (8.5 diopters), and a few months later (or so I remember) the first Gulf War erupted.

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My WWII vet Dad always said that the reason the military signs them up young is that it wants them too dumb to evaluate the risks.

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Agreed!

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People who kill indiscriminately are not "under stress". They're criminals.

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Seems pretty black and white. So, in your world, criminals can't be under stress?

It seems that some people just don't want any explanations whatsoever, because any explanation is somehow seen as exoneration. I just don't understand that mindset.

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I think you know that no one is speaking here of "stress'. We are speaking of people whose psyches have been hammered and tweaked over time, and in rare cases they are tipped over the edge by an event that causes them not able to contain the crazy any longer. It's sometimes called 'decompensating, a point after which an unstable psyche that has been able to hang on with coping mechanism breaks apart. That's where the Big Stressors come in. It is not an excuse for evil acts--it is often an explanation.
We went from the specific to the general here; there are to many things we will never know about this particular man.
It is probably why there are such defenses as Insanity and temporary Insanity.
The families of the slain soldiers may one day want to know 'why?'

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Some Dude Named Steevo, thanks a whole lot for further enlightening us.

To sum kind of roughly, here the Army was trying to force this guy to adhere to his nine-ish year drudgery contract that he hated. And they're determined to be tough with him, by gum! And all around him, every day, people are muttering about what *scum* are those Muslims! He hears this every day. And he struggles to get out and they won't let him. And he starts wearing Muslim robes around and nobody wonders. Then they are getting ready to order him either to Muslim Afghanistan or Muslim Iraq, which is abhorrent to him for twisted reasons of solidarity and he's also scared out of his mind. And he's coming unhinged, and they're saying, "Listen, Major, a contract is a contract. This is the United States Army!"

And now they all wanna ponder, "Great God in heaven, why didn't he just *REACH OUT* to someone?"

Yuh!

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I wrote this post very quickly last night after reading Josh Marshall's updates on the main page. I was only trying to provide a little bit of background information. However, I am truly baffled by this man's actions. I hope no one thought I was trying to stick up for this person. If he ever regains consciousness, he is going to have a short and miserable life in a military prison before his execution.

The fact is, there are some extremely unhappy doctors in the military. Doctors are extremely reluctant to see a psychiatrist as they are fearful it may affect their career. From the time I signed up until I was completely finished was a period of twelve years, even though I was only on active duty for four years. USUHS grads are looking at a minimum of fourteen years of active duty (they are on active duty during medical school), plus an extended time on the individual ready reserve. I am not aware of any other military officers that face such a long time commitment with no chance to retire or quit.

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You said it just fine. I think it gave us room to explore more than just Major Hasan's story and background, to explore the complicates creatures that we are, and that acts don't exist in a vacuum, or independent of our experiences and pasts and identities. Thanks for the opportunities you gave us to talk it out.

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Co-sign!

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