West Virginia Voting Machines GOP Fraud?
Three Putnam County voters say electronic voting machines changed their votes from Democrats to Republicans when they cast early ballots last week.
This is the second West Virginia county where voters have reported this problem. Last week, three voters in Jackson County told The Charleston Gazette their electronic vote for "Barack Obama" kept flipping to "John McCain".
Shelba Ketchum, a 69-year-old nurse retired from Thomas Memorial Hospital, described what happened Friday at the Putnam County Courthouse in Winfield.
"I pushed buttons and they all came up Republican," she said. "I hit Obama and it switched to McCain. I am really concerned about that. If McCain wins, there was something wrong with the machines.
"I asked them for a printout of my votes," Ketchum said. "But they said it was in the machine and I could not get it. I did not feel right when I left the courthouse. My son felt the same way.
This is the second West Virginia county where voters have reported this problem. Last week, three voters in Jackson County told The Charleston Gazette their electronic vote for "Barack Obama" kept flipping to "John McCain".
Shelba Ketchum, a 69-year-old nurse retired from Thomas Memorial Hospital, described what happened Friday at the Putnam County Courthouse in Winfield.
"I pushed buttons and they all came up Republican," she said. "I hit Obama and it switched to McCain. I am really concerned about that. If McCain wins, there was something wrong with the machines.
"I asked them for a printout of my votes," Ketchum said. "But they said it was in the machine and I could not get it. I did not feel right when I left the courthouse. My son felt the same way.
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What the hell this happened on the simpsons!? Execpt..............IT'S NOT A JOKE!
October 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I just read a post on Daily Kos where people think that by voting for the ticket they're voting for Obama but they're not: apparently they needed to vote separately for the Presidential ballot. At that stage the poster cited 200 people who thought they'd voted for Obama but hadn't.
The entire thing's a heartbreaker
October 19, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
In NC, there's currently a push to educate voters about this. If you vote the "straight Democratic" option, it doesn't include a vote in the presidential race. The NC Democratic Party has sent out mailers highlighting the fact that voting for the presidential ticket is a separate action.
Heartbreaking is a good word for it. The thought of votes being lost to foul play, bad machines, or just confusing ballot structure is thoroughly depressing.
October 20, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fran, as someone who had already voted a straight Dem ticket in West Virginia, I was concerned after reading your post. I called the WV Secretary of State's office and was told that if you vote a straight ticket in West Virginia it does include the presidential race - you don't have to vote separately for Obama.
October 20, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I believe it's a good object lesson: never vote "the ticket". Always consider your choices. And enjoy pushing more buttons for the Dems (if that is your ticket) rather than the just one.
October 21, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ugh. After all that hard work to get Baldwin on the ballot in West Virginia I sure hope that Constitution Party votes aren't lost there.
Why can't all states have easy ballots like Maine does?
October 20, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't you all get it? Even if the screen showed Democrat, there's no guarantee the internals of the machine recorded it as that.
And a paper printout is as meaningless: a computer can multitask: even though the printout might show exactly how you voted, that does not mean the machine recorded it that way.
We've had 8 fucking years for voters to EDUCATE themselves, and STILL they trust computer voting machines to "get it right".
October 20, 2008 4:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and that is why we need paper ballots -- an imperfect system in the modern world but evidence that a voter can hold in his or her hand and see how they voted. A paper ballot would allow what the constitution requires, a recount in a close election.
Imagine the chaos -- political and psychological -- if, on Nov. 5, we have a McCain victory and exit polling that predicts an Obama victory by a wide margin or even by a small margin!
People went along with the Supreme Court decision that gave it to Bush in 2000 because they saw no other way to resolve the confusion. Do you think, after eight years under that "resolution," that they will be so accepting this time around?
Sovereignty matters, and it is achieved by the legitimate gain of a majority of electoral votes. If there is doubt about legitimacy how can anyone possibly govern in these difficult times?
October 20, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
>Imagine the chaos -- political and psychological -- if, on Nov. 5, we have a McCain victory and exit polling that predicts an Obama victory by a wide margin or even by a small margin!
Um, that's exactly what happened in 2004...
People went along with it because they just don't care. The difference between the candidates - then and now - is marginal. The ones who believed otherwise, had already learned in 2000 that there is no requirement for their votes to be counted.
We will see an announcement of a McCain victory in November, I have no doubt - and if we don't, yes there is a symbolic value in having our first African-American president, but there will be exactly the change Obama has promised - NONE.
October 20, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's also what happened in 2000: Zogby got 49 states right within at most 1 per cent. He got it right on the 50th -- Florida -- also, but the media ultimately settled the election as they wanted by refusing to address the fundamental issue:
The Constitution stipulates that the authority to resolve such election disputes is exclusive to CONGRESS -- the UNELECTED SC has NO legitimate role in resolving DEMOCRATIC ELECTION disputes.
Yet what did the media talk about? The bogus, lawless, smoke-and-mirrors null-and-void Bush v. Gore.
I was online, reading the Federal and FL elections laws during the debacle after the election, and through to 12/12/2000. Toobin, in particular, pissed me off: he interviewed Clark Clifford on the Gore side, and Clifford gave statement of the FL law. It was the law I read.
He then interviewed Jim Baker, who gave statement of the FL law. It was the OPPOSITE of the law I read.
Toobin left the viewer with that coin-toss; what he SHOULD have done was provide a third view: the standard: the actual text of the law.
So the viewer, not knowing the law, was left not knowing which side was correct -- or if either was. I didn't ask the media to decide the election; I expected the media to provide me all relevant information so I could decide it for myself.
And most law professors -- including those who flatly said the election was stolen -- got their kicks masticating the bogus decision instead of going to the Constitution itself and finding out what IT required.
And since then, it appears most everyone has settled into "paper trail" as solution -- even though a minimum amount of thought will clue one that it isn't. In my state it's not actually a concern -- there are so few Republicans that they have to run around in the legislative chambers to make it appear there are more than there are. But even here an elections official I met who works on the technical side and with the legislature hadn't a clue what I was talking about on the point.
Hopefully the $150 million raised in September will be the overwhelming legal fund that will likely be needed in at least a few locations.
October 20, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
FYI - Zogby almost never gets anything "right". I can and have written to this topic extensively, and will not bore by repeating - suffice to say that I do not disagree with your primary point here, but it is NEVER a good idea to cite a Zogby poll as if it were a reliable datum for supporting your position. John Zogby's organization is a total joke and widely viewed by many statisticians as the absolutely worst major polling group in the country.
October 20, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jnag has it right. It doesn't matter what's on the screen, it doesn't matter whats on a paper audit tape, it doesn't matter even on a at-the-scene diagnostic.
Nothing matters except what instructions the program is following at the moment of tabulation which is downstream of the user interaction..
October 20, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
and the tabulation doesn't even need to be on the machine but on a distant server. What instructions are running there?
the system is so hackable, its ludicrous.
October 20, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I already started writing to a few people. I want to know if our party is prepared to fight in every state and wait how ever long it takes to make sure all votes get counted. I don't care if we don't know the results on election day. I want to know that if in any state where numerous voters will be forced on to provisional ballots, for example, that we will wait for the ballots to be counted before we accept a declaration. I think we have to fight for this win.
I was wondering if we should start a petition...'willing to wait' for our real election results.
I do not know what to do about the machines. I hope the Obama camp takes some action... I don't know what can be done.
October 20, 2008 4:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
What I'd prefer is a petition to disclose the source of the voting machines, at least to an independent group of experts, as well as experts from both parties. Having proprietary machines is like giving all the people's votes to one company (coincidentally owned by Republicans) and trust them to just tell you the final result, i.e.: "McCain won by 500 votes, gee, we're sorry, better luck next time...".
And people, PLEASE, record your voting using a cell-phone or something. And if you notice any user-interface glitches, like flipping votes, try to analyze what's going on, is it flipping in both ways or just one way, is there a pattern to it etc.
October 20, 2008 5:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
With $150 million raised in September, I hope and pray Obama has a large legal budget and has sent attorneys to the counties to file lawsuits in the appropriate courts. I read the entire article this morning and my blood pressure has gone through the roof. Here's the article:
http://wvgazette.com/News/200810170676
The Obama campaign has a website for reporting voter fraud:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/vrachome
One can also call their state Obama headquarters office or the Chicago national headquarters to report voter intimidation and fraud.
The next two weeks are going to be quite rough and we have to work as hard as we can each day to ensure a victory for Obama. We have Powell's endorsement, all the newspaper endorsements, and $150 million, but there is no end to the treachery of the repugs and we must continue to work as hard as we can each day.
October 20, 2008 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm at an early voting site in Fla and the Obama campaign has two lawyers onsite full-time for the next two weeks.
October 20, 2008 8:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
First, call the Obama office or go to their voter protection web site.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/vrachome
But, it wouldn't hurt to phone your Governor's office or Senator (if they are Democrats of course). They were after all ultimately responsible in their states for the legitimacy of the voting process. For example, in WV, I would also call Machin's office as well as Rockefeller's and Byrd's. Also, local tv and radio stations.
Shame them into working to stop the voter intimidation and fraud, which are really one of the only tactics the repugs have left to try to throw the election their way.
October 20, 2008 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do the West Virginia voters have a choice of electronic voting or paper ballots? If they thought the voting machine didn't record the right candidates' names, couldn't they stop right away, ask the poll workers to void the electronic ballot and request the paper one? I used a paper "inka ballot" in the California primary and the ink in the voting booth didn't imprint on some spots. I showed it to a poll worker; he voided it and gave me another ballot to start again. As long as you can show the poll workers the errors, either on the machine or on paper ballot before you finish voting, they have to give you another chance to vote your choices.
October 20, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a reason why election fraud doesn't result in a landslide. The idea is to create a perceived close race in pre-selected states and flip a 51-49 vote to 49-51. Before it is flipped, there's an attempt to match it as closely as possible to exit polls.
A third party on the ballot can help to disguise the percentage point manipulation.
It's not one attempt at rigging, it's a design of fraudulent activity from pre-election to post election.
There really has to be a huge turnout to offset the fraud.
October 20, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most of us in tune with election fraud have suspected one thing or another about the tampering, someone or " them " doing it to the machines while in storage.....this independent film maker's discoveries on the subject will blow you away.
FREE FOR ALL! the movie
http://freeforall.tv/
About an hour long. Get the kids to bed, kiss the significant other on the head, grab a drink, some munchies and DON'T MISS THIS VIDEO BEFORE ELECTION.
Spread the word and oh, by the way;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok
October 22, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll be running over to the Putnam County Courthouse in Winfield, West Virginia in just a few minutes to do my early voting. The county is strongly Republican and always goes that way. There are no indications that that will change in the near future.
The voting machine problems seem to be isolated events (if they are indeed real). It has been speculated that the voter may be touching the screen once for Obama, and because the machine is slow, they touch again which then cancels the first vote. Why and if it should roll over to McCain is any ones guess. The voter has opportunity to see all his votes before finalizing. If there are any issues, this is where it is corrected.
Please rest assured that when John McCain carries the Mountain State that it will be because he received the majority of the legitimate votes. The fact of the matter is that we still have dead people voting down in the Southern Coalfields and votes were bought as recently as the last election - all for Democrats.
Tell you what I will do. I will test the machines when I vote by first indicating a vote for Obama, canceling out, and then trying other combinations. But when I finalize, it will be for John McCain.
By the way, we are drilling like crazy for gas here and our unemployment rate is down from 6.8% 10 years ago to 3.9% and falling today. Jobs to the tune of 23,000 have been created in the last 2 years and over 80 million dollars a year are filling the state coffers due to gas severance tax at the wellhead. The lesson is that we can drill our way out of an economic recession and West Virginia is the example. Our Governor is Democrat, I have high regard for Joe Manchin and he will also have my vote.
Kindest Regards,
IH2
October 23, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink