Oh, my Gawd! It's White-Trash Armageddon!
It's apparent I can presume disagreement with any given piece I encounter on the Huffington Post, and today is no exception - since Sam Stein has given his sober, reflective thumbs-up to Attorney General Eric Holder's troublingly nebulous speech yesterday.
Hailing Holder's references to recent violence in Wichita and Washington, D.C., Stein wrote:
The brief speech - roughly seven minutes in length - was one of the sharpest denunciations of violent extremism since the recent spate of murders began.
I would've phrased it "since the recent spate of murders occurred", since there's no indication the violence marks the beginning of a nationwide Honkie Jackass Insurrection, except, evidently, in the minds of liberal-minded bloggers like Sam Stein. And, truthfully, how much grit is required - in this country, in these times - to denounce violent extremism?
In the speech, to the Washington Lawyers' Committee conference yesterday, Holder rightly committed DoJ resources to countering violence and intimidation at abortion clinics across the country. Religious fanatics for decades have made life living hell for providers guiding women through one of the most critical - and conflicted - decisions of their lives; there are few such clinics in this country not surrounded by throngs of these frothy absolutists.
"Neither our respect for the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech nor our clearest hope for common ground can justify the violence that we saw in Kansas," Holder said. "We will not tolerate murder or the threat of violence masquerading as political activism. Let me be clear, the Justice Department will use every tool at its disposal to protect the rights ensured under our constitution and we will do all that we can to deter violence against reproductive health care providers and prosecute those who use such violence to the fullest extent of the law."
OK. Fine. All well and good. There's so much here I like! But... "First Amendment guarantee of free speech"? What's that reference doing in here? What's planned? Re-establishment of Bush-era "free-speech" zones, off where protestors are quarantined, sight unseen? I wouldn't mind that for the abortion clinic harangers (don't these people have jobs?) And that's exactly what troubles me: That reaction comprises my default definition of "hate speech" - any speech I don't like.
Sooo... How deep does Holder intend this implied crackdown to go? Maybe some on the Left will get their dream-come-true - and hate crimes law will mission-creep to include "hate speech" bans. And "clearest hope for common ground" not justifying violence... wonder what he meant by that. Holder's statement is disturbing to the degree his promise of action is so obscure, unclear as to what action it will entail - or what is the exact motivation.
In the wake of these tragedies, we've seen isolated attacks by demented individuals conflated with a nonexistent, white-extremist race war. And we've seen some alarming reaction, not all as stridently dumb as U.S. News & World Report's Bonnie Erbe, calling for curbs on our long-treasured First Amendment privileges of free and open exchange of ideas:
It's not enough to prosecute these murders as murders. They are hate-motivated crimes and each of these men had been under some sort of police surveillance prior to their actions. Isn't it time we started rounding up promoters of hate before they kill?
No, Bonnie, you blighted ninny, it's not time to do that, at all. I found myself in the jarring position of agreeing with the Wall Street Journal's James Taranto (always an iffy predicament, at best), when he writes:
It's not clear if Erbe counts (Jeremiah) Wright among those who should be "rounded up." Vile as his worldview is, there is no reason to think he has violent tendencies. Maybe her mention of him simply is a tangent designed to show that she deplores left-wing as well as right-wing bigotry. If so, that is to her credit.
...As far as we remember, even after 9/11 no one seriously suggested that "hate speech" against the U.S. government should be a crime. It took an attack on a much smaller scale to bring that un-American idea into the open.
For Erbe, there's the matter of "speech that beckons" - prevails upon the soft-headed and foolish to commit violent acts. There may be some truth in that. We honestly don't know what may provoke killers to bloom; in 1930s Hamburg, a serial killer who thought himself a vampire was inspired by the then-new Disney film, "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs." And it's not wise to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre - although no one really lives in crowded theatres.
But are these latest shootings, as awful and repellant as they are, harbingers of some vast Right-wing offensive? Is hate crime such a crisis in this country that we would diminish or out-right junk one of the premiere rights that has defined us - unfettered free speech?
Old-school civil rights stand-by, the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, has released its report this week, "Confronting the New Faces of Hate: Hate Crimes in America 2009" that's long on specious statistics citing ever-increasing rates of hate crimes, especially against illegal immigants, but its text is short on citations of actual, serious crimes that rate crisis-level status in a country of 300-plus million. In a telling passage:
These data almost certainly understate the true number of hate crimes committed in our nation. Victims may be fearful of authorities and thus may not report these crimes. Some local authorities may not accurately classify these violent incidents as hate crimes and thus fail to report them to the federal government.
There's an alternative to that appraisal: These crimes are not hate crimes. But the mere suggestion of burgeoning crypto-Klans was enough for the Washington Post; without bothering to look into the report's figures itself, the newspaper headlined its story on the LCCREF report with "Immigration Debate Tied to Rise in Hate Crimes". Case closed.
There's a pragmatic reason for all these fire-bells in the night: This week the Senate has indicated it may act on House-passed enhancement of federal hate crimes legislation, a move supported by Holder. Hate crimes bills have become sacred stuff for the liberal-Left, and even to suggest such criminalization of thought might be unnecessary - and unwise - courts accusations of racism. Even Fox News has given the bill a very fair wrap.
Six years ago, this country, believing spurious claims and dubious arguments, fabrications and distortions, needlessly made war on a country and stumbled into what has been called the "greatest strategic disaster in this nation's history". Fair appraisal of the Iraq War.
Next time we "go large", we make war, we blow huge amounts of money, or crap on our own Constitution - let's make sure we're doing it out of necessity. Let's make sure the facts are straight. Let's make sure there really is a crisis of hate crimes that should impel us to institute obnoxious "hate speech" laws. Manufactured hysteria is never, ever a sound impetus.
This country's history of racism and ethnic conflict is shameful and bloody. It should be approached with a lot more care than that shown lately by the Right - and the Left.
















Sure Curt, the First Amendment applies to all or it is not a constitutional right.
I do not think that hate crime bills accomplish anything. Again, they were used, or similar laws were enacted, to give the Feds a chance to prosecute racists in the South who would escape prosecution in their own state.
June 17, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, dd, the first hate-crimes legislation in the U.S. was passed in the late 1990s, long after local Southern governments stopped harboring and shielding racist criminals. Hate crimes always have been propagated through emotional appeal, not through rational response to necessity. For instance, 46 percent of the FBI's hate crimes log for 2006 were classified as crimes of "intimidation", and this can simply mean an insult, or even perceived insult. Motivation for this entirely new and unique strata of American crime appears to rest on the argument that hate crimes cause vast psychological damage through dehumanizing effect on victims; through some witchy process, this toxin then devastates society. There are few areas of American law on shakier logical ground than this one.
June 17, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
No Curt, you are correct.It is just that if you examine the Civil Rights legislation that gave prosecutors the right prosecute in the South, this is where the hate crime 'model' came from. Thats all.
I am first and foremost a free speech nut.
June 17, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
They also prosecuted in the North. But you wouldn't know that: you're a monomanic "free speech not," not someone who pays attention to history and law.
It's a illiterate's cliche to whine that "only the South" has been "persecuted" by the Civil Rights Laws because it is FALSE.
July 7, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really think this is just going to stop, Curt. I sure doubt that.
June 17, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, brant. I don't think it will stop. But to the extent we remain forever divided, at each others' throats... who benefits?
June 17, 2009 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are we really all that divided or are we subject to a haphazard condition of inequality borne of natural, cultural, social or economic contrivance?
June 17, 2009 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo!
June 17, 2009 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"unfettered free speech"
Glaring by its omission is the term "responsibility" -- the fact that every right is inextricably entwined with RESPONSIBILITY. That includes the right of free speech (not only is it prohibited to yell "THEATER" in a crowded fire, but the First Amendment limits freedom of assembly to PEACEABLE.)
When specific groups are targetted because of characterists "unique" to the group, it is usually found that the targetting is an expression of HATRED. The objection to "anti-lynching law" that it is "racist" -- it would clearly be anti-hate legislation -- is that it would only protect African-Americans, who are the traditional target of lynching. Should such a law be "race-neutral" in view of the fact that caucasions have NEVER been the target of lynching?
There is a place for hate-crimes laws, which DO NOT "criminalize thought"; they criminalize specific ACTIONS against specific TARGETS. We do have Reagan to thank for openning the door to such actions by stupidly saying that there is a "right" to be racist. Sure: you can believe anything you want; but some ideas aren't to be encouraged, especially when there are those who will then stir the pot with the intent incite actions based upon those ideas.
But let's pretend that Hitler's hate-speech against the Jews DIDN'T have any consequences, intended or not.
June 17, 2009 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
The remedy for hateful speech is ALWAYS more speech, not less.
June 17, 2009 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you! We lose that realization, and we've lost ourselves. Hitler's hate speech was so potent because it was uncontested - he'd outlawed any opposing commentary. The intention behind "hate speech" bans isn't really to
"control hate", it's to control, period. These laws are obnoxious frauds with no place in a democracy.
June 18, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
LAW has two basic, often intertwined, functions:
To protect, and to control/regulate that which is to be protected against.
Yelling "THEATER!" in a crowded fire is prohibited in order to protect public safety. Hate-speech is intended -- you're welcome to argue otherwise concernintg the foul-mouthed false assertions made by such as O'Reilly -- to undermine legal protections.
Hate-speech laws are about controlling BEHAVIOR.
June 18, 2009 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The antidote to hate-speech is BOTH more speech AND emphasis on RESPONSIBLE speech, as in CIVIL and TRUTHFUL.
June 18, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are just the person, I suppose, who gets to decide who is speaking civilly and who gets thrown in the slammer? Who do you think you are, Barack Obama?
No, my friend, we have to protect political speech of all kinds, otherwise we find ourselves in the situation that exists now...with the government assigning protesters to "free speech zones" or with people who think of themselves as liberals thinking they can decide which speech is "civil" and which is "hate speech."
BTW, if we could legislate responsibility, we would have been able to do something about the way your parents raised you.
Just kidding.
June 19, 2009 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you know the meaning of "name-calling"? Is that your notion of "civil"?
Is it "civil" to SMEAR and LIE against a citizen -- a medical doctor named Tiller -- until that climate establishes the pretext, the acceptability, of acting on that hate-speech?
Tell your defense of irresponsible, irrational, even DERANGED hate-speech to those who have been murdered as direct result of it.
June 22, 2009 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look up the legal term -- in a LAW dictionary -- of "proximate" and "proximate cause".
Ask yourself: Did or did not O'Reilly and Limbaugh and their ilk create a climate which encouraged and predictably resulted in the murder of Dr. Tiller?
That's your notion of "civil"?
June 22, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Civility is not protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. Free speech is.
June 22, 2009 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you READ the First Amendment? Obviously not. To QUOTE directly from it:
"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble . . . ."
1. PEACEABLY is CIVIL -- and OBVIOUSLY does NOT prohibt Congress from making laws PROHIBITING VIOLENT assembly.
2. I said NOTHING about making laws "requiring" civility, jackass; and I need not yet again -- oh, but you need the reminder -- point to the fact that not only is every right inextricably entwined with RESPONSIBILITY, but law INCLUDES ENFORCEMENT of responsibilities.
3. Now try THINKING instead of reacting like a pro-corruption middle-classer who endeavors to increase his "freedom" by disentangling it from responsibility -- and REASON -- based upon the intellectually dishonest delusion that the two ARE separable.
I posed the directly on point question:
If one DISAPPROVES of the means of "debate" used by the other side, does one RESPOND in the same way? Wouldn't that be sorta like, you know, being a HYPOCRITE criticizing HYPOCRISY -- but only in others?
Can you C-H-O-O-S-E to behave responsibly -- civilly -- WITHOUT the law REQUIRING you to do so!? Or are you too damned wrapped up in the delusion of "unlimited freedom" that you're slave to the delusion?
NO society consists SOLELY of YOU. Your rights are LIMITED by the existence of OTHERS who have the SAME non-infringable rights -- exactly as their's too are LIMITED. It is illegal to yell "THEATER!" in a crowded fire; is that, to you, a reasonable limit? -- or is it "unconstitutional" even though it save lives?
July 7, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously, one cannot carry on a civil conversation with someone who addresses him or her as "jackass," so I will leave you to your unscholarly, illogical ravings.
July 7, 2009 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, right: and no one has any responsibility to not "remedy" hateful speech with more of the same.
Sorry to be so "subtle" that it's over your head.
July 7, 2009 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Somehow, in over 200 years of nationhood, responsibility has never entailed proscribing speech - or beliefs. Ever.
June 17, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And with good reason. Doing so would create a conflict with the adjective, Free, that we connect to speech.
Just look right now at events in Iran, where speech is at least nominally proscribed, and you see the problems it creates. Interestingly, this is very informative because it suggests that speech could be construed more as a natural right than one granted by a manmade law. Our constitutional guarantee of free speech is a likely acknowledgement of this.
June 18, 2009 4:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong, extremist/zealot. Defamation is ILLEGAL, regardless how you would defend it on the grounds of "freedom of speech".
It is ILLEGAL to yell "THEATER!" in a crowded fire -- and for damned good historical reasons.
July 7, 2009 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hate crimes have never been prosecutable when the only thing done is to hate. No one ever got prosecuted for just hating. There has always been another criminal act to go with it. The killing of the gay young man out west had a hate crime associated with it. Had he not been killed, it would have come to nothing.
Once it was found out that he was killed BECAUSE he was gay, if you think that gay people weren't given pause by this, then I think you're not really paying attention.
Killing Tiller was a hate crime. And terrorism. And killing Tiller worked for them, his clinic is now closed, and they have pinched off another place that abortions were done. Typically, what he was doing was never what they thought he was doing.
A hate crime is when you do something illegal, and your motivations can be (beyond a reasonable doubt) ascribed to hate. This is prosecuted and should be, otherwise justice is never served. Your talking about free speech, and it's really a matter of free hate PLUS criminality. I don't see why you shouldn't be penalized for the hate, if it's led you to criminality. It's essentially adding another level to the criminal statutes, that any crime can be committed with extreme prejudice. I'm ok with that, as long as it's proven.
June 18, 2009 7:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
A hate crime is when you do something illegal, and your motivations can be (beyond a reasonable doubt) ascribed to hate. This is prosecuted and should be, otherwise justice is never served.
I think this is a dangerous position. If a person commits a crime, the person should be convicted of committing the crime. The jury doesn't really need to know what was in the person's head at the time, just what his behavior was.
Any good law procribes behavior, not opinion.
June 18, 2009 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
In law, "crime" includes mens rea -- state of mind. INTENT.
And yes, again, jackass, there are some who have historically been subjected to, as example, LYNCHING, and some who never were (the perpetrators were/are of the latter). Were there to be an anti-lynching law -- there never has been because there MUST be a "freedom to lynch"/such a law would be "raced-based, thus favoring one race -- the target for lynching -- over the other race -- the one's who perpetrate lynchings but are never themselves lynched.
Society isn't perfect. In some instaces special protections are necessary in order to ensure EQUALITY -- which is invariably falsely characterized by the law-illiterate and lynchers as "SPECIAL (and "race-based") rights".
Hate-crimes laws are intended to target a specific category of crimes, just as gun control laws target a specific category of weapon.
July 7, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Any good law proscribe . . . ."
Really!? Does the First Amendment proscribe? (Actually it does, but you've not read it.)
"Any good law" includes those -- you would insist -- which establish and or secure RIGHTS. But ALSO includes PROSCRIPTION AGAINST violating those rights.
"Any good law" isn't so simple that it leaves out everyone but you. Our system is (I've repeatedly said this in other terms but you just don't get the fact that laws can BOTH protect AND limit -- indeed, a protection is a limitation) based upon a BALANCING of interests -- not upon laise faire free-market lawlessness. EVERYONE has the same rights, AND the same REPSONSIBILITIES not to infringe the rights of everyone else.
Your "freedom of speech" is LIMITED by MY RIGHT NOT to be DEFAMED.
You'll understand that if I put it the other way: MY "freedom of speech" is LIMITED by YOUR RIGHT NOT to be DEFAMED.
What you DON'T grasp is that BOTH of those limits operate AT THE SAME TIME. Your "freedom" is not a ONE-way street; it includes RESPONSIBILITY.
It is also limited -- in the mature -- by restraining oneself within responsible limits. In other words: it is possible to CHOOSE -- yay! FREEDOM! -- to conduct oneself CIVILLY by choice, rather than only when and because of constraints by law.
July 7, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as for being divided Curt, do you think not having hate crimes legislation will make us less divided? I don't see that. If there is no other division that will last nearly forever in mankind, there will always be a division between the selfish and the generous, if no other division stands.
June 18, 2009 7:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
So... one advantage of hate crimes laws is they don't make us any more divided than we already are? I'm trying to see the perk in there. Nope... just can't corkscrew my mind into comprehending it... Sorry!
June 18, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
In short, you oppose civil rights laws because they prohibit discrimination -- IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE EQUALITY IN LAW OF THOSE SUBJECT TO SUCH PROHIBITED DISCRIMINATIONS.
June 18, 2009 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
No individual in a society is a hermit. Thus, in civil society, law does at minimum TWO things: one, constrains noxious behaviors, two, protects others from those noxious behaviors.
Living in a society of more than one isn't ONLY about FREEDOM; it is ALSO about RESPONSIBILITY.
EVERY freedom is inextricably entwined with RESPONSIBILITY. That INCLUDES acts protected by the First Amendment -- which you should CAREFULLY READ, IN FULL. As example, it BOTH protects freedom of assembly AND limits that freedom to PEACEABLE assembly.
Only in individual isolation, and in lawless anarchy, do rights have the FALSE appearance of being unlimited.
June 18, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
In democracies, JNagarya, noxious behavior isn't constrained. If crimes result from such behavior, these crimes are prosecuted. But one person's noxious behavior is another's legitimate exercise of free expression. This amounts to ambiguous, constantly re-defined legal points, and in this country's past, such Constitutional privileges were constrained by prosecutions under "nuisance laws" alleging such behavior disturbed the peace, violated property rights, etc. Some of the most far-reaching civil rights decisions, which helped re-affirm speech and assembly rights for all of us, grew from cases brought by religious groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses, to allow proselytizing missions.
June 19, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
In other words, it's your view that smear and lying is so acceptable, and so to be unconstrained, that it's acceptable to smear and lie in response.
THAT'S that way to establish RESPONSIBLE, CIVIL conduct, eh?
Try THINKING for a change, instead of mindlessly resorting to vague memories about what Jefferson allegedly said in support of hate-speech and irresponsibility being the good speech driving out the bad.
Yes, jackass, EVERY right is inextricably entwined with RESPONSIBILITY -- INCLUDING that of free speech. That staneds to reason, fool, in view of the fact that the individual is neither a society or law unto her/himself, therefore MUST conduct her/himself responsibly.
As for your defense of hate-speech as acceptable: tell it to the Jews who suffered the consequence of Hitrler's. Did he PERSONALLY execute them -- or did he only create the climate that made it acceptable -- and legal -- conduct?
If you're going to go to the sme extreme as Limbaugh, et al., in order to defend the indefensible, then you'll have an impossible time persuading anyone that you are against extremism and for reason.
June 22, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink