Bush really was a fullblown religious nutjub.
From the article:
President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible's satanic agents of the Apocalypse.Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.
Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their "common faith" (Christianity) and told him: "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East.... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled.... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."
Here is a site with the background (with links to the original french article where Chirac disclosed this interview, (also an English translation)).
Yep. The Iraq war saved the world from the Apocalypse. No wonder he is so calm. God bless him. I wonder who he thought was Gog and who was Magog? Osama and Saddam. How many innocents are dead now? Has it crossed the million mark? I am certain that there is a place in Gehenna waiting for him.
Yes, as crazy and far-fetched or paranoid as it may 'seem' there is a pseudo-christian mafia organization operating like privileged royal elite, above and beyond the law, raping and pillaging our democracy, using it like a toy. So now what? is what I am wondering?
August 9, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes but there seems to be some sort of backroom deal where they take turns with the boys from goldman running the country. When does our side get a turn? How bad does it have to get?
August 9, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
We have bigger problems to worry about right now than Bush's religious views.
August 10, 2009 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our bigger problems are largely a result of Bush's religious nutjobbery.
It's like saying, I don't have time or energy to quit smoking because I have to beat this cancer first.
August 10, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, it's like saying - I hate Bush so much that I will continue to blame things on him even though we now have a new President and we've had a Democratic majority in Congress for the last few years.
I can't say I know much about the source of this revelation. But if you believe this you probably also believe that Bush was behind 9/11.
But I guess when your name is "Mr. Conspiracy" I should expect nothing less.
August 10, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our problems have been around since before the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives. We've only had a Democratic president and Democratic Senate for less than 7 months. They are still trying to deal with Bush's problems. They've hardly had time to create problems of their own.
One doesn't need to believe Bush was behind 9/11 to understand the many ways he screwed up this country. But to not understand this, or to deny it or even to downplay it, one does need to have ones head deeply lodged in ones behind.
August 10, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
By Democratic Senate, of course I mean one with a 60 vote majority, and that's only been a reality for a few days. The Democratic Senate is incapable of acting without a 60-vote majority.
August 10, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is very short sighted to say that our biggest problems are largely a result of one person, even if that one person is the President of the United States. There this thing called Congress, which also has a lot of influence. And something else called the housing market, world economy, etc, etc.
August 10, 2009 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill, how many many innocents are dead because of that bastard? How many.
Or let me put it in terms that you might understand. We are still spending 100s of billions a year over there. Those are your taxes.
August 10, 2009 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention the fact that I can't see Bill Clinton would've entered into a preemptive war against Iraq the way GWB did. Count those lives lost, alone.
August 10, 2009 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many innocents are dead? Lots, unfortunately. Lots of innocent people die in wars. That's true for all the wars the US has fought in. And wars are also unfortunately expensive.
But I still view your post as living in the past. We will never know what Clinton, Obama or any other President would have done in the same situation post 9/11. And I don't know what good it does to continue to bash Bush like you're doing. I read the article you posted but still question the source. I spent time trying to find a reliable news source quoting Chirac but couldn't find one. I have no idea who this author is and whether he is a reliable source.
August 10, 2009 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough bill. I do hate that his foolish blundering defines the terms of today's debate. Its a lot of money and wasted lives. And we ares still there and still paying.
If you don't trust the source why don't you track down French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice, it was he that interviewed Chirac and then reported it. Pointedly Chirac has not disputed the claim.
I love history, bill, the truth matters. It is how we learn and how we determine our actions in the future. You can bury you damn head and blame obama for the huge mess bush left all you want. I would rather know the truth.
That said, check out my post on cement that is carbon neutral from a week ago. That was something I spent a bit of time on and care about, this I just shared the links to that I thought people might like to know about. Its important to appropriate assign blame but I don't really want to dwell on that moron.
August 10, 2009 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's worth noting that none of the major news sources (NYTimes, WaPo, WSJ, etc) have decided to pick up this story.
I also think that the truth matters. But I am not sure I have enough good evidence to see that this is a true story. It's not burying my head in the sand. But as I'm sure you'll admit, the Internet is full of folk lore.
August 11, 2009 6:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Such as the carefully orchestrated, tending-toward-violence "town hall" outbursts that you no doubt endorse wholeheartedly.
August 10, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
ad hominem, ad hominem...
August 10, 2009 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
No response to that, eh? So you call BS. Great come back...Really proves your point.
August 10, 2009 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've never commented on the town hall outbursts so I have no idea why the OG is bringing them up. I'm not sure why you'd like me to respond to an accusation that's out of left field.
August 10, 2009 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfrickin believable. I tell you there is a right wing Christian conspiracy in this country.
And ITS LEADERS BELIEVE IN NOTHING. They merely wish to reward friends and fill their own pockets and keep power.
Chirac is not going to believe tripe like this. Just makes w look even dumber which is hard to do.
August 9, 2009 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you spell "C" Street?
August 9, 2009 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got it TJ. That is how you spell it. A full blown conspiracy.
August 9, 2009 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well C Street is just one of the places they hang out... 'the Family', or mafia.
You know when the media mentioned that one of the two people that Palin spoke to right before she resigned was Dick Cheney... I thought when on earth has there been any mention of the two of them having 'any' previous contact with each other??
And what does it mean that she would talk to him right before her crazy, blathering resignation?
There so much right there below the surface that needs to be uncovered.
August 9, 2009 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
This would seem far-fetched, had we not been through 8 years of the guy! Thanks for the "update" - OH, MY Gog! And my Magog as well!
August 9, 2009 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
TheraP, if this is not the Dayly Line of the day, I do not know what it could be. I hereby render you this Award, given to all of you from all of me. hahahahaahahahahah
Oh My Gog (refuses to bless himself) hahahhahaha
August 9, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Thera! Good to see you again.
Truth is I am glad that condi or someone seemed to grab control in 06. I was scared to death that one day he would decide Ahmadinejad was Gog, or maybe Chavez, or hell even Chirac. Then he would doubledown and we would have another pointless war. I was a bundle of nerves till January 21.
August 9, 2009 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Saladin,
I've oft wondered if Bush was just horribly enept or a bit whacky-doo!?!
Seems it's both! I'm literally 'aGog' we even survived (barely)!
Good post. Thanks. Rec'd.
August 9, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bush's religiosity, IMO, was a put on. He said off-putting and outlandish armageddon crap in order to achieve a dominant posture. What better way to shut up reasonable discourse than to drop Gog n Magog into it? Sure beats having to explain an otherwise indefensible position.
And that is Bush's MO. He dropped God and other assorted confabulations into complicated subjects and scenarios in order to stifle dialogue. The added benefit was the perpetual forgiveness of the 24% of Americans who believe anything that comes from a Born-Again's mouth.
A quick google search will reveal that Bush had a fondness for flashing the sign of Baphomet to his fellow elites. Other searches will reveal a salty-tongued blasphemer who pals around with Reverend Moon.
To call Bush a religious nutjob is an insult to religious nutjobs. W was a power-hungry spiritually vacant emotionally deadened man who got stuck on being The One to finish what was started by the Crusades and bring the Middle East under control of the western aristocracy.
August 9, 2009 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a quick note:
Unfortunately, the web is full of specious materials. The hand sign for Baphomet comes from illustrations that date back hundreds of years. The skull and boners adopted it as a pledge sign, most likely as a fraternal inside joke. I am not implying a grand Satanic conspiracy. I am only saying that Bush is way too cozy with the oil junta to be a Born-Again loose cannon.
August 9, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of Baphomet, have a look at the upside down stars on the elephants back of the GOP logo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Republicanlogo.svg
What's up with that? Some kind of graphic design oversight, or is it intentional?
For those unaware, an inverted five pointed star forms the outline of the goat-like deity, Baphomet, and is a symbol long associated with Satanism.
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/BaphometGallery.html
August 10, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Considering that the stars on the flag are point up, you can be certain that this was no accident. Those stars are the way they are for a reason.
Speaking of hand signals, have you ever seen all the picks of Bush and family (also Tony Blair and others) flashing the satanic hand signal. When asked about it, the Bushes claim it is a University of Texas Longhorns "Hook'em Horns." If true, it doesn't explain how Tony Blair because such a big Longhorns fan.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/210105devilhand.htm
August 10, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have seen a photo of Bush making an palm down "Longhorns" hand sign. I hadn't seen a photo of Blair doing it though. Perhaps, there's some kind of secret international Skull & Bones society, at least, between the U.S. and the U.K.
August 10, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
gosh, my typing fingers have been taken over by Bill Gates' spellchecker and word corrector.
August 10, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
well this is why I use the term pseudo-christian because the 'Family' et al use religion publicly to their advantage but it is completely just a group of money and power grabbing elite vying for world domination. Who knows how far the religious crap actually goes but since Doug Coe and 'Family' admire Hitler and Mao it seems that they would actually despise religion and consider themselves superior.
August 9, 2009 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with this, Synchro, and in some sense they already have chucked Christianity. One of my favorite movies is Angel Heart, and in it we learn that Satan "protects the strong!" It's a good line, because as we know, the Son of God (according to the dogma) protects the weak. So it makes sense that Satan would be opposite.
What doesn't make sense is that C Street/The Family would also be opposite, but they *are*.
BTW, I was interested in the explanation from one of the nimrods, this may have come from DD's blog, I'm not sure: RWN Coburn and others want to open up relations with Central Asian de facto autocracies where their election contributors stand to profit from improved business ties. And once you have American business moving in, we learn from Coburn, the "gospel" also begins to flow... WHAT A CROCK!!! THESE PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS!!! They don't want no fricking gospel!!! Holy smokes!!! And it brings me bag to the ole King Crimson line,
"The fate of the whole world is in the hands of fools!"
Anyone who admires Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, like they do, ain't Christian. Power-mad perhaps, but not Christian.
August 10, 2009 5:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually one of W's former staff who was an actual true believer wrote a book about how the Bushies would make fun of Christian born agains who they would gladly use but considered rubes.
August 10, 2009 5:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually one of W's former staff who was an actual true believer wrote a book about how the Bushies would make fun of Christian born agains who they would gladly use but considered rubes.
August 10, 2009 5:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I personally think that W was in way over his head and that Iraq was a simple greek tragedy, he wanted to upstage dad and do iraq right. After all- Saddam tried to kill his diddy.
However, I also would not be surprised if he got drunk from time to time and seriously indulged in this kind of end of world fantasy. He was a nutjob, and religious. And what the fuck was up with Rumsfeild's notebooks
August 10, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had heard about this a couple of weeks back and asked around here in Geneva. People looked at me like I was crazy... for not knowing. The story had been reported by the main Swiss newspaper in French - Le Matin
http://archives.lematin.ch/LM/LMD/-/article-2001-05-5633/bush-voit-les-propheties-bibliques-s-accomplir---politique-internationale
And people did not find the story very shocking. It was pretty much in line with the general perception of Bush as a religious nutjob.
August 10, 2009 6:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obey, I am confused. The article is headlined 09/05/2001 but seems to refer to events in 2003. Can you explain? (My French is a bit rusty.)
August 10, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I saw that too, and don't know what to make of it. I found it in the archives of the newspaper Le Matin. That date is way off. From talking to people it seems that story came out just a year or two ago. So the date is off by a long shot...
August 10, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do remember this being reported before--it seems to me it was closer to 2003 than 2007 but I don't recall the specifics well enough to be sure.
August 10, 2009 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obey, if you are in Geneva are you able to ask Le Matin about the date of the article?
August 10, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a conspiracy, but it is not from the "Christian Right" per se as much as it is from the active collaboration of the LEADERS of the Christian Right with K Street (lobbyists) and government functionaries and staff - including in the military. The people follow their leaders, and the leaders gain power because they can "deliver" both votes and bodies.
August 10, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Christ would never recognize today's American "Christian" conservatives.
August 10, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
August 10, 2009 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink