"We could not understand what he was saying."
On January 20, 2002, six Algerian men who had been arrested in Bosnia arrived at the American prison on Guantanamo Bay. One of them, Lakhdar Boumediene, won a landmark case in the Supreme Court, and was subsequently released to France on May 15, 2009. Others, including Saber Lahmar, are still "detained."
Melissa Hoffer, one of the lawyers who represents the Algerian prisoners, has described the conditions of their imprisonment and the circumstances of their transfer from Bosnia to Guantanamo.
After a three-month investigation, the Bosnian federal prosecutor recommended to the Bosnian Supreme Court that all six be released. But again under heavy pressure from the United States, the Bosnians caved, and as the men were released from a jail in Sarajevo, the Bosnians turned them over to the United States.
"We could not understand what he was saying."
When we last saw Saber in November, he was in his sixth month of solitary confinement. Since August, he has seen us, his legal team, twice and a psychiatrist on three brief occasions. For a few minutes each day, he sees the camp guards who bring his meals. He has had no other human contact. The glaring lights in his cell are on 24 hours a day, seven days a week. When we left the cell, we could hear Saber shouting -- brief, truncated cries.We could not understand what he was saying.
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"We could not understand what he was saying."
He wasn't saying anything, he had just finished his apparently rational in-person conversation with them.
The conditions under which he is reported to have been kept are appalling.
June 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and disgraceful.
June 6, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
result of a few bad apples, no doubt.
June 6, 2009 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, the WH used to contain a few bad apples. What concerns me is that if such reports as above are true enough and current, Obama and Gates et al have not taken sufficient steps to change conditions at Gitmo for the better, whether the "model" prison will eventually be closed down or not. ("" because I've read that Holder described it that way and the movie Sicko says the prisoners get top notch medical care and there is, or was, a 1:4 ratio between health care workers and prisoners).
June 6, 2009 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's "model" prison...
Obama's "model" prison...
June 6, 2009 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
"according to a lawyer who represents detainees"
Surely the highest quality unbiased hearsay source. Why does someone as smart as you buy into, or at least promote, these rhetorical excesses as if they were gospel?
It's also notable that your first cite mixes up the election of Obama with the inauguration of Obama, assuming there is any significant truth to the cite.
"Ghappour said he had filed two complaints of serious detainee abuse since December 22"
"review looked at 20 allegations of abuse, 14 of which were substantiated, but he did not go into details. Generally he said the abuse ranged from "gestures, comments, disrespect" to "preemptive use of pepper spray.""
If you would focus on the facts, you could start to build a case that complaints of abuse are not being dealt with.
June 6, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
But if "eds" had bothered to read the citation, he might have noticed that his claim is bullshit.
The dateline of the first citation is February 25, 2009
But why should we believe the prisoners and their lawyers, instead of trusting every word that comes out of the Pentagon, like good little Obamabots?
But maybe "eds" really isn't as stupid or credulous as he appears to be, and this is just another example of Obamabots desperately trying to muddy the waters, so that nobody get a clear view of their bullshit Messiah.
June 6, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Typo: It should be "...so that nobody gets a clear view..."
And that's enough "dancing with mutts" for me, for today.
June 6, 2009 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that is the dateline. No, it does not excuse the mixup evident in the text.
Does that make you jeff or a seriously disturbed veggie?
June 6, 2009 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You agree the WH used to contain a few bad apples. Would these be the same bad apples you so vehemently denied during our discussion earlier in the week?
June 7, 2009 8:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your failing cheap shot noted for its crudely rude manners. I don't keep track of all old threads, so I figure you're lying or badly misremembering some old discussion to suit your ill humor here.
If you want to tie in an old discussion, link to it clearly. TPM doesn't offer long-term comment archive searches.
June 7, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
ROFLMFAO
June 7, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
4 days ago
“You're the one who's not honest here. Please stay off until you can be honest again....”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
5 days ago
“Calling for an investigation does not presume a conclusion. They picked up unofficial stuff and ran with it. Really, look...”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
5 days ago
“only if you put them into evidence here. In fact, Petraeus' nuanced opinions are probably being misread by you as...”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
6 days ago
“"You don't want to see the truth, a corrupt chain of command top to bottom." No, I want to see...”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
May 31
“Don't swallow without chewing it over. I already explained how that happened. They picked up bits and pieces of unofficial...”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
May 31
“Isn't that what happened, the military chain of command ceased to function in these matters. In a nutshell: People were...”
# eds replied to jonnienohand's comment on Levin: Cheney "Bore False Witness" On Torture in TPMMuckraker
May 30
“If you read the Levin report you will get a glimpse of the reality of "chain of command" which should...”
ANY OF THIS RING A BELL
June 7, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You've clearly got more than one screw loose.
Have you read the Levin report yet?
June 8, 2009 3:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read it weeks ago. It doesn't say what you contend. Have you decided which side of fence you intend to cast your insults and ad hominem attacks from yet. I've caught you in an intellectual deceit. Care to attack me some more, instead of my argument. OHH! Forgot, you don't have one particular side. LOL.
June 8, 2009 7:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I cited exact passages to support my point. You did not challenge them. That makes you the liar. In fact all you've done the whole time is to make stupid remarks and personal attacks, exactly what you accuse me of doing. This will be my last reply on this to you here.
Your ego is getting in the way of the truth here. There could well be bad apples at both the top and the bottom of the barrel. That's no contradiction on my part. But the "crimes" would be different, so you have to look at the specific problems separately. I argued that low to middle level people whipped up SOPs on their own and submitted them. That other thread had one focus, the recent discussion a different focus. Are you myopic in addition to being totally rude?
June 8, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
pants on fire lol
June 8, 2009 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink