While a line can be drawn from the Constitution to universal health care, it is a rather convoluted path that has not yet been mapped by the branches of our government.

The Geneva Conventions, on the other hand, are very clear, and they have been affirmed by our government. Torture violates the supreme law of our nation, and to ignore that law weakens the very documents and principles that we must instead strengthen to get to universal health care.

I thought Obama got that. Now, I'm not so sure. He's still worlds better than his competition in the last election. That's why he got my vote. But he's giving me reason to believe that realpolitik is taking over again. And that's a sad thing to see.

-- courtesy of my Music Appreciation professor

"I suspect we are fairly close on this issue, although I object to the repeated analogy: if A attacks B using a weapon A expects to function normally, it is inconsequential whether the weapon in fact functions as expected. Perhaps a more illustrative example would be, say, an attempted poisoning where the "poison" turns out to have just been almond extract."

The problem is that in this situation, as has happened in other informant cases, A wouldn't have attacked B if the government agent hadn't led A to believe A had been given the means to do so.

I think David's post addresses this issue quite well - when the government goes looking for trouble, it has the means to makes sure it finds it.

I'm glad you fought for your son.

And certainly the conditions under which Habeas can be suspended under our Constitution do not exist.

Then as the Constitution and any correctly approved treaties are the Supreme Law of the US, Habeas should apply to all detainees, whether they are prisoners of war or not. Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

As I have already pointed out above, and you blithely glossed over with lots of lofty words that don't mean a whole lot, your quoted statement is untrue. And if you really earned that MA in Political Science, you should know it is untrue. And if you continue to claim this untruth, you are bearing false witness in violation of the Commandments of your God that you seem to hold very dear.

See, that's my problem with what you wrote about the schools - my children are not free to express the belief system my wife and I hold, and that we teach, piece by piece, to our children as they mature enough to understand. Instead, the public schools are part of this whole indoctrination program for which your posts are an echo chamber. And the public schools accommodate and encourage social pressure forcing so-called "free Americans" to conceal what they believe, or who they are (if you happen to be gay) in the interest of their own safety. Every time these so-called Judeo-Christian vales get reinforced, another questioning mind must seek refuge in silence.

What status do all other people have under Geneva?

You see what I'm getting at? AFAIK, Geneva only applies to a very select class of people. Everybody else should come under the protection of the Constitution wrt habeas corpus.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

It's as true now as it was during the Bush years; we are in neither a case of rebellion nor of invasion. Finding reasons why anyone subject to US governmental compulsion cannot force the government to comply with its own Constitution - the supreme law of the land - is grounds for impeachment on failure to protect and defend that same Constitution.