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Sometimes a Picture isn't Worth a Thousand Words


On the issue of the latest torture pictures, many, if not most of the people whose opinions I normally value are going against me on this one. (Joan Walsh, Jonathan Turley, Rachel Maddow, Sen. Russ Feingold. . .)

But I believe Obama is doing exactly the right thing in withholding those pictures from public scrutiny. It's hardly "hiding evidence", as so many are suggesting. It's simply keeping them from being broadcast al over the world. The people who need to see those pictures have either already seen them or will see them. That's where "transparency" comes in. Because you and I and the other guy haven't seen them doesn't mean there's anything nefarious or even dishonest going on. Nor does it mean that Obama is going back on a promise.

There are thousands if not millions of items that we may never see because they're classified. As I see it, this is entirely a security issue. I do believe our military will be compromised if they're made public. The clamoring for viewing baffles me. What would it gain? What is it any of us needs to see? Isn't it enough that we know they're out there? Do we really need to see them over and over again, day after day, night after night, for weeks or months on end--knowing that the whole world is seeing them, too--including our enemies?

Jonathan Turley called Obama's decision not to release the new photos "Positively Orwellian".

Joan Walsh said Obama sounded "positively Rumsfeldian" when he announced that he would recommend not releasing the photos.

Janis Karpinski, the retired brigadier general formerly in charge of Abu Ghraib prison, told CNN today, "It is sad and tragic. The reversal will absolutely stir up more controversy than release of the photographs, causing an outpouring of rampant speculation -- What is the government hiding? Who are the people in the photographs? How awful can these new photos be? And worse."

She may be right concerning the speculation. We live in an age of information overload, where "news" is broadcast 24 hours a day, with the chance that the day's stories might be repeated 30 or more times. We could spend mountains of time speculating about what is in those photos, or we can spend days poring over the photos themselves. Or--here's a thought--we could get over the fact that we may not see the actual pictures any time soon and move on to the fact that it was Obama himself who released the OLC torture memos in what some might call a refreshing display of. . .transparency.

The fact that we know that thousands of these photos exist is sickening enough. People have been torturing in our name and have been obscenely, absurdly, photographing the acts. That is horrifying--but it's out there. President Obama hasn't swept that fact under the carpet.

There are many who say that we can't possibly get the same gut feelings--and thus the appropriate rage--from a written account of incidences of torture as we can from actual photographs or film. That's assuming that gut feelings and rage are the bottom line here. They're not. It's justice we're after, not a balm for our anger.

But the larger point is that, whether or not the public has a chance to view the new torture photographs, nothing is going to change.

Obama either will or will not pursue the prosecution of American war criminals. (Something I'm all for.)

His administration either will or will not actually change policy concerning confinement, interrogation and torture. (A necessary step if we're ever to hold our heads up again.)

And culpable members of the Bush Administration may or may not get their comeuppance.

Sam Stein wrote a piece yesterday in The Huffington Post quoting an ACLU lawyer who spoke on Fox News (Really? ACLU? Fox News? Together??) about the president's decision to stop the release of the photos. Jameel Jaffer said, "These photographs are critical to the historical record so it is very disappointing... that the administration is going to try and suppress them."

I haven't heard from anyone that the pictures will never be made available. To use the "historical record" argument as a reason to release such inflammatory pictures during a time of war is disingenuous.

Stein also quotes an "anonymous White House aide":
"The President would be the last to excuse the actions depicted in these photos. That is why the Department of Defense investigated these cases, and why individuals have been punished through prison sentences, discharges, and a range of other punitive measures. But the President strongly believes that the release of these photos, particularly at this time, would only serve the purpose of inflaming the theaters of war, jeopardizing US forces, and making our job more difficult in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. "

There is no real indication that Obama is going to sweep the wartime abuses of the Bush Administration under the carpet. There is no evidence that any of that information, including the photos, will be destroyed. We've already begun to have congressional hearings concerning the use of torture in American military prisons. (What Went Wrong: Torture and the Office of Legal Counsel in the Bush Administration)

Matthew Alexander, leader of the Zarqawi interrogation team in 2006 and author of "How to Break a Terrorist", gave written testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee last week, explaining how useless torture really is. Ali Soufan, a former FBI special agent involved in interrogations, spoke behind a screen at that same hearing, saying basically the same thing.

Get some perspective, please. And be honest. We don't need to see those actual photographs in order to get a good picture of prisoner abuses perpetrated in our name. The evidence is surfacing daily and the word is getting out. New witnesses keep coming forward, new memos keep popping up. So how is that happening? It's happening because we finally have a government in place that understands the need for honesty and transparency.

But there are still responsibilities associated with the release of information regarding our actions. Those photos won't tell us anything we don't already know.

(Cross-posted at Ramona's Voices)

37 Comments

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"We don't need to see them because we already know". But if we already know what's the point of hiding?

And if the protection of our troops is indeed the goal here, why did Obama insist on the release before?

Didn't he know what the pictures were when he make his initial decision to release them? Or did he only see them the night before his statement?

And with the US media going nuts over these unseen photos, does anyone really believe that Arab newspapers are not going to write about horrific pictures of abuse America decided to hide from the world?

You wrote a wonderful and thoughtful post, but I think Obama's line of reasoning makes no sense in light of his own previous statements.

More importantly, isn't sunshine the best solution to darkness?

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Other than the first, Lalo, I think your questions are very good ones. And I agree with you that this is a wonderful and thoughtful post.

Hats off to both of ya.

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My point is that there is already "sunshine". The pictures, if they weren't so inflammatory, would just be icing on the cake.

How many pictures would be enough? 100? 500? 1000? The pictures aren't "hidden". We know they exist. Now it's up to the courts to use them to serve justice.

I believe Obama agreed to the release of those photos prematurely. I think wiser heads prevailed, and I'm glad we have a president who listens to those who have a greater understanding of issues he's just learning about.

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I think Obama actions so far have too inconsistent to say the "sunshine" is irreversible.

If you believe in the idea of a truth commission, then you believe in an open, transparent process of coming to terms with what happened. Well, I do, in any case.

To me, the alternative is a half-secret judicial process to fix something on behalf of American people while they remain largerly clueless about the moral implications of it all.

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Lalo, I absolutely believe in a Truth Commission--or whatever it takes to come to terms with the truth. I believe the new photos have a place there, as well. I just don't believe the photos should be out there for public consumption, to be used and misused, to become fodder for the crazies. And make no mistake--that's what they would become.

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Pay no attention to the troublemaking pinhead above. It wishes merely to stir up trouble, nothing else.

These photos are evidence, and will be needed in courtrooms. The likelihood of that increases daily, as more documents come to light. Let them be seen in that settingn and used to prosecute the torturers, not merely as screaming yellow headlines exciting either the casual voyeurs of the planet or the pointless finger-pointers.

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These photos are evidence, and will be needed in courtrooms. The likelihood of that increases daily, as more documents come to light. Let them be seen in that setting and used to prosecute the torturers, not merely as screaming yellow headlines exciting either the casual voyeurs of the planet or the pointless finger-pointers.

Exactly. You said in a few words what it took me hours to come up with! Thanks.

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By the way, I didn't say I agree with Lalo's stance, just that the questions are good ones from Lalo's point of view. I'm in agreement with you and Ramona as far as the photos go.

Just wanted to clarify that.

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No worries, Lis.

Frankly, I loathe, detest, and despise the guy. (Look for the specifics behind each term...)

He's only here to foment trouble. Like a stopped clock, he may at times be right, through no agency of his own.

All of which, unfortunately, takes us away from the real point of the matter.

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It's okay LisB, the fact that you reacted to any of my comments won't reflect badly on your Democratic credentials.

It's not swine flu, just debate.

:-)

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Heh, I seem to recall agreeing with you once before, sometime last year I think it was.

:-)

Thanks for the giggle.

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I would have no problem with that approach if there were any indications that an investigation and subsequent prosecution would occur. The only indication we have on that is the President's indication that these matters have already been investigated, the problem addressed and that the matter is closed. That means there's no investigation or prosecution even being contemplated. Quite the contrary if we take the President's statement as any indication.

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Oleeb, I shuddered when I heard Obama say that, but already there is waffling on that issue. I think his initial answers about these things were too casual and not well thought out. I believe (or maybe I WANT to believe) he is learning on the job and is having to backtrack now.

His first speeches sounded like he was still in campaign mode--promising everything to everyone depending on where he was at the moment. I hope he's over that now.

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I think it is all "in play" and the outcome not clear at this point though I think the forces of darkness have the upper hand. They know that their fate rests on where the President ultimately comes down on the issue of criminal investigation without fear or favor and so they are doing all they can to back him into a corner on it. Unfortunately, he has played right along for the most part thus far. Integral to extinguishing the flame of public insistence on investigations is suppression of any and all additional evidence of the crimes.

If large segments of the public continue to want to see the right thing done, it makes it harder for them to accomplish their purpose. If the public is convinced they needn't care and are effectively sidelined, the forces of darkness are almost certain to prevail. That's the reason for the public to be pressing hard now and keeping the President's feet to the fire so that he feels at least as uncomfortable choosing to sweep this all under the rug as he does in dealing with it. In my view, the only thing keeping him from sweeping this all under the rug and acting like it didn't happen is the public pressure which keeps raising nagging doubts about turning his back on what the law requires and what the public reaction to that will be after he had promised to restore and maintain the rule of law.

In the cocoon of Washington, all the forces he is being exposed to are telling him to "move forward", "don't look back", "do not criminalize policy disputes", etc... Without intense pressure from the public it's likely the advice of these wormtonngues will be followed much to the detriment of the nation.

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Several pundits have pointed out that Obama's big speech to Muslims from Egypt (which fulfills a campaign promise) is June 4th. It is generally thought that he would like the graphical displays and pictures to not surface until after the speech at least.

And before Lalo gets all indignant about the terribleness of saying it was to protect the troops when it might really be about protecting his speech, he should please note that (a) Obama is a politician, (b) nobody will be or is being tortured over the delay, nor is a country being invaded (c) after the lies and real harm, not to mention 2 senseless wars from the former administration, any self-righteous sounding off will not go over well.

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To add to your point, the appeals court is more than likely to reject Obama's new/old legal argument to block this.

When the appeal is rejected, he will have to release or ask the Supreme Court to review. I bet my hat he will release at that point.

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If he does, can I have your hat? I've been wanting it for almost a year now...

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Lis, tried to get him to put flower on it for Easter but he wouldn't....

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I've said it before and I'll continue asserting:

The only 'Judges' that should matter in deciding this issue are the troops and their leaders who will suffer the consequences.

And why is that you are not addressing the fact that the Generals who command the troops state the release of these photos would cause more destruction and harm for our troops and our goals?

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Good point, Aunt Sam. The last thing the generals would want now is the release of those pictures and the scraping of old wounds. Their position is not surprising, given the uproar over Abu Ghraib. What IS surprising to me is this outcry from all quarters over the decision not to release them.

I have to believe that, from the public's point of view, it has almost nothing to do with transparency and almost everything to do with morbid curiosity.

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Ramona: How can this be??

Gates himself is on the record saying the release was unhelpful but inevitable.

Suddenly, the generals in Iraq and Afganistan developed a voice and presence that wasn't there only a couple of weeks ago.

I'm sorry to be critizing the President you like so much, but I think what really happened has nothing to do with protecting the troops.

He opened a shitcan of worms with the release of the torture memos.

Now that the shit is hitting the fan (and what little is left of Pelosi's credibility) he's simply passing the buck to the courts.

Or hoping for a judge with "empathy" to buy into the old legal argument all other judges have rejected.

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I'm sorry, I'm confused. What do YOU think Obama thought would happen when he released those memos? Do you think he didn't read them? Nobody who has read them would ever think they would just go out with the wind and gently waft away. I'm guessing the reaction that came was the reaction that was expected.

Now the photos are another story. . .

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He opened a 'shitcan of worms' with the release of the torture memos.

Is that what everyone is calling Cheney these days?

Now that the shit is hitting the fan (and what little is left of Pelosi's credibility) he's simply passing the buck to the courts.

Generals are always going to bitch, either about not enough money, troops or releasing torture pictures. The only shitcan of worms I see is the noise level and anxiety coming from the GOP. Pelosi's role in the torture debate is not a central theme. For that matter, even the Congressional GOP doesn't seem to have a starring role. The war that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz, Bybee and Yoo, as well as Bush wanted to control so badly is now owned entirely by them. They also own the fallout from the torture debris they left behind. And for some reason, Cheney seems determined to keep the focus right where it does them the least good.

I don't see politicians blaming politicians for acting like a politician as a major stumbling block in this country.

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If he has to release them, he'll release them and deal with it. Considering the speech is one of trying to get past the Bush sins toward Muslims of the last 8 years, who knows, maybe they'll help him.

Personally, I'm of the frame of mind that as far as Muslims and the Mid-East people go, they won't be shocked. I mean, at this point we're already occupying two of their countries and it turns out we don't make great occupiers, in that we manage to kill a great many innocent civilians.

While I understand the opposite position, I think we're better showing that we can, and will, follow our own rule of law. The one we have tried, rather unsuccessfully to impose on them.

But I'm curious, Lalo. Those pictures won't help your side much. Why so anxious to get them released?

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My side?? Which one is that, and do I have to put everything neatly into two separate boxes?

Could it be that it could help YOUR side?

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There is a tug of war going on between the White House and the generals. It is to be expected. And none of the generals were involved in the torture in the first place--at least that is my guess.

It is meelee mouthed of me to say this, but the White House keeps saying that release should not take place NOW.

So I am in agreement.

But, either way, this does not take away from your fine post!!!

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Thanks, Dickday. Good comment.

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Obama = Neo-Lib

100 days is enough time for a ruler to establish his priorities. For Obama, it looks like this:

1. Reinforce the entrenched economic dominance of the investment banking cartel; indemnify major players from financial loss.

2. Consolidate the military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan; neutralize Iran and prepare the foundation for expansion into Pakistan.

3. Clamp a lid on political excesses of the outgoing regime; ensure loyalty of military and CIA via guarantees of immunity from prosecution.

4. Stonewall on health insurance reform to give major insurers time to distribute congressional campaign donations.

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I'm thinking of changing parties from Democratic to Pragmatist. I'm all the way with Obama on this one.

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The Pragmatic Psrty, good one Steve. Obama as President and Steve Katz as Chairman of the party. I like it.

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Great post Ramona!

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Thank you, Astral. Yours, too.

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Yes, I agree with astral, excellent post. Top notch.

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Thank you, Bradley.

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No pictures for me, please. Nice to hear this point of view. Also, I don't think releasing the photos is fair to the victims.

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Good point, Rootman. I'm sure there are those who don't see them as "victims" but as bloody terrorists. Until we have trials we'll never know.
(If they were innocent when they went in, you can bet they'll be terrorists if they're ever released. Another can of worms.)

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we've seen more than enough photos to understand that Bush/Cheney hypocritically condemned Saddam Hussein for exactly the inhumane behavior they were thereafter, at pains to emulate, and perhaps exceed.
But here's the worry I have about a push for immediate prosecutions: there is no doubt that such a move will be viciously spun by the right as an act of Democratic political retribution, rather than as a necessary acknowledgement and subsequent righting of America's human rights violations.
Don't we want and need Obama to be our president for eight years? Can we really afford a backlash election in 2012 that would leave much of his work undone? Therefore, is it possible that it would be wiser to defer this action until his second term while, during this term, a solid case is built?
Just asking, and worrying. Lawyers, political consultants et al please weigh in.
Thanks, Ramona, for another thought-provoking post.

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Ramona

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I am a lifelong Liberal and a long-time writer who has found my voice again with the dawning of the Obama age. I lived underground during the Bush Regime, spouting off under a variety of assumed names, but now I'm who I am--just as I am. Email: ramonasvoices@gmail.com

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