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Death Panels' Aren't the Half of It, Says Senator Kyl
Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona, the No. 2 Senate Republican, says if the Democratic health care overhaul is ultimately killed, its demise should not be blamed on the overheated talk of government "death panels" for the old and infirm.
While distancing the Republican establishment from the hype over the rather remote prospect of government-ordered euthanasia, Mr. Kyl said on Tuesday that public concerns about the health legislation go well beyond a minor provision concerning consultation on end-of-life issues.
"I really reject the notion that the American people oppose this because somebody on the Republican side has deliberately spread misinformation about the plan," he said on a conference call with the news media. "In this democracy, there is no way voters can be fooled to this extent." NYT Sen Kyle [1]
Oh really Senator Kyle,you are drooling sir,a Freudian slip of the tongue is dripping from your chin, here take a napkin. Perhaps it is that premature victory grin over the death of the Democratic health reform whose eulogy you so prophetically preview. Your slip is showing and it is this, you are admitting in your glee that we ,the democracy, are not stupid we are only fooled. Fooled like when you, the Republicans, made the democracy think that an unregulated free market system with tax cuts for the rich would lead to prosperity, when in truth it has lead to near collapse of our economy and freeze dried the American middle class for the last eight years. Fooled when your Republican administration made the democracy think Saddam had WMD's and that invading Iraq was necessary to avoid the smoking mushroom cloud. Fooled when you said, "we do not torture, we do not spy upon the American people, we do not assassinate". Fooled again when you said you would stand with the new administration in a truly bipartisan effort, when your true intent was "NO NO NO and NO! Now you try to fool us about our own health situation.You admit that you know the democracy is not stupid but must be fooled to accept your foolish ideas. It is you and your party that are the fools, fools for money and power, holding on to ideas and attitudes long proven vain and foolish.
The plan simply costs too much and goes far beyond what is needed, Mr. Kyl said, given that most Americans are satisfied with their current health coverage.
This statement is another attempt to fool the democracy, "most Americans are satisfied with their current health plan" What health plan do you speak of Senator Kyle? There is no health plan, none, there is only the insurance companies plan. The Silver,Gold and Platinum plan. Do you speak of the insurance companies plan to take all they can from us, force us to spend money out of pocket first and then fight us tooth and nail for return on our claims, yes that's the word, claims, listen, it is not a claim it is a fact testified to and signed by the health care provider that the insurance company requested on forms upon forms upon forms that they required. That is no longer a claim it is an invoice. Is the plan you say we love the insurances plan to drop us like a hot potato when we really have serious expensive need? Because that is the only plan we have at the moment. The plan we want is the one you are trying to block and fool us out of.
Maybe Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP)has fooled you? This leader of the insurance lobby has sent lawmakers a message:
Be careful what you change, because "77 percent of Americans are satisfied with their existing health insurance coverage." karen Ignagni Spins [2]
Here is the foolery, the same poll also states, 85 percent of respondents said the health care system needed to be fundamentally changed or completely rebuilt. How can 77 percent be satisfied and yet 85 percent say it needs to be fundamentally changed? How can these numbers add up.?
Lets look at the 2 questions involved, question 51 and question 43

The trick is that this poll which has over 100 questions, asks questions about both health care and health insurance, neither of these two questions above asks anything about health insurance. Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans uses question 51 of the poll to make her claims about health insurance and 77 percent satisfaction, however question 51 on the poll is about "health care you receive" satisfaction, not about health insurance and any satisfaction with it. She does this knowingly to fool you and the press
.
I would consider health care to be exactly what it says, those who provide care for the health of the people of the democracy ,which in no way describes the private insurance companies.
Senator Kyle, that fine President of the Republican Party, Abraham Lincoln had some advice for you, I quote " It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Interesting Numbers: New York Times Poll complete [3]
Ref:
[1] NYT-Sen Kyle
[2] Karen Ignagni Spis
[3] NYT Poll
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well done, Dondi. I've just been listening to Joe Scarborough go on about how it's time for President Obama to practice what he preached--to be post partisan. To reach across the aisle for a compromise on health reform.
Like Kyl, Joe is not among the conscious. He can't say what he said and possibly claim to be among the conscious.
August 19, 2009 7:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks tpmgary, which do you think is the worst possiblity, that they believe what they are saying, which makes them pretty foolish, or that they dont believe it but say it anyway to make fools of us?
August 19, 2009 7:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
The worst possibility isn't that they believe what they are saying. It's that others do. That's the worst possible outcome. What's the antidote? As I've said elsewhere, pound the facts. Expose their hypocrisy--not just once, not just casually. But every time any of them open their mouths. Every time. And never tolerate a single false equivalence.
I also think individual accountability works better than blaming a party collectively.
August 19, 2009 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes tpmgary, this is a very good point, the most dangerous is that others believe them. This is wise counsel also, not to blame the whole party, I apologize to those Republican friends here if I have done that. I was trying to edit out such broad language and thought . My olive branch was to quote the great Republican Abraham Linclon who I admire so much. I will take your advice Gary, thank you
August 19, 2009 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEALTH CARE AND HEALTH INSURANCE. DAMN IT ALL!!!
However, if I am on the side of the ruling oligarchy, well any obfuscation is good. Its all good.
"Here is the foolery, the same poll also states, 85 percent of respondents said the health care system needed to be fundamentally changed or completely rebuilt. How can 77 percent be satisfied and yet 85 percent say it needs to be fundamentally changed? How can these numbers add up.?"
One of our better bloggers pays 1100 a month to provide health care for his family. He was making the 85% argument but with good intentions.
I tried to tell him, 85% OF AMERICA IS NOT HAPPY WITH THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE...
I got nowhere of course.
That is Scarborough's argument AND IT PISSES ME OFF.
I do wish to give more credit to many Dems who are attempting to do the right thing and wish to keep their majority. Some may be doing it wrong by my 'standards' anyway.
Goooooood analysis Dondi
August 19, 2009 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dickday, you know I have heard you say this several times, there is no plan, I heard you but I didn't get it fully.
Reading this poll it jumped out at me, this is what Dickday is saying! The Replublicans are talking about insurance plans we are talking about health plans, insurance plans are about money and health plans are about people. Oh God do Republicans see anything but money? Well dick keep at it, it takes some of us longer to see what you are saying. Thanks buddy.
August 19, 2009 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
DonDi, keep exposing the lies. And the liars who spout them. Sometimes the spin on some of these lies just goes right past me. (And many Americans.) It's like a fast ball and a curve ball and a sinker all in one pitch. I get dazed at first and I don't even realize all the dissembling that's going on. Then I think about it a bit. 77% of Americans are satisfied with their health insurance--but wait...are the 20,000 people who died last year due to insufficient coverage included in that percentage? Or is there a separate survey for dead people to fill out?
August 19, 2009 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tpmgary, in the reply above to dickday I used the broad brush again when I said " do these Republicans think of nothing but money?" I am not satisfied with this statement, it isn't broad enough and must include Democrats as well
August 19, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
point taken. A good reminder, thanks.
August 19, 2009 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Kyl is a dissembling liar, and in his long career has never done a damn thing for the average person in his now nearly bankrupt state. His supporters don't seem to care that he does nothing but lie and serve 'the big money' which resides mostly out of state. (the local Repugs are now planning to sell state buildings to raise money-Jon Stewart is having a show on the nonsense- while at the same time they are trying to lock in taxcuts for 2011 when they think the state will magically be able to afford it).
August 19, 2009 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
NobleComment, thanks for the good information on Kyle.
August 19, 2009 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, DonDi...am I correctly feeling the anger behind this post of yours?
Those nuances of political crapola are soooo important. I'm glad to see that you have defined a few in the healthcare debate.
Good post.
August 19, 2009 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Flower, a little angry that these opponents are so snide in what they think is their victory, grinning like the heartless heir who standing over his uncles hospital bed, with his fingers crossed behind his back, whispers , "I am so sad that Uncle Sam is dying, sniff sniff, do you know Who has his will?"But it isn't over and Uncle Sam is not dead yet , and maybe, just maybe, the health care providers can still bring him though.
August 19, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am including all of us fighting for health care as health care providers
August 19, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently Kyl has been in a coma for a few years, and therefore missed the fact that (last I checked, in 2008) roughly half of Americans still believed that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.
The public *can* be fooled to that extent, and by the same process: a targeted campaign of lies by Republicans and their media supporters.
August 19, 2009 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matt ,I guess it is the glass half full or half empty equation. You can see it as bad that 50 percent of the public are fooled, or you can see it as good that 50 percent of the public have not been fooled? I guess from this point forward it depends on which group can be persuaded.
August 19, 2009 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant. Absolutely Brilliant! And I am unanimous in that (hat tip to Mrs. Slocumb--if anyone remembers her).
Do you know how the Senator pronounces his last name? Does he use the long I vowel or the short I vowel? I know how I'd like to pronounce it.
August 19, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
amike are you being clever or are you really just using both sides of your brain, the creative intuitive side and the analytical side? As for me the analytical side of my brain says his name is pronounced with the long I sound, like Gomer Pyle which fits well, but the creative side says it should be pronounced with the short I, as in Jack and Jill rhyme.Using it this way,
Hack and Kyle went up the hill
The health bill there to slaughter
Hack fell down and broke her crowns
And Kyle did rue he brought her.
August 19, 2009 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh Hum . . .
Dear Senator Kyl...
GO POUND SAND!
~OGD~
August 19, 2009 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
azpaul, you are more than welcome.
August 19, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
OGD, Dear Senator Kyle a word of advice, listen to the Duck, he is olden and wise, he is golden and experienced.
August 19, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for calling my junior Senator's latest blather to my attention. He has become a bigger and bigger tool as time goes by, and loses more and more credibility each time he makes remarks like these.
August 19, 2009 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink