Marc Thiessen: Defending Human Torture With A Lie
Marc Thiessen, who from 2001-2004 was Chief Speechwriter for Donald Rumsfeld, and from 2004-2009 was a speechwriter for the Bush White House, has since Obama's inauguration, been a vociferous defender of human torture, even going so far as to claim that Americans who tortured are American Heros. More recently, while attempting to discredit a Washington Post article about torture's counter-productive effects in an article published at National Review Online, Thiessen rested on a false allegation previously promoted by the Bush Administration which had been thoroughly discredited.
On March 29, 2009, The Washington Post published an article detailing how the harsh interrogation methods used on Abu Zubaida had resulted in no actionable intelligence, and instead had caused him to give up false leads which tied up CIA resources.
In the end, though, not a single significant plot was foiled as a result of Abu Zubaida's tortured confessions, according to former senior government officials who closely followed the interrogations. Nearly all of the leads attained through the harsh measures quickly evaporated, while most of the useful information from Abu Zubaida -- chiefly names of al-Qaeda members and associates -- was obtained before waterboarding was introduced, they said.In his March 29, 2009 response published at National Review Online, Thiessen began with hurling a fatuous derogation:
[. . .]
One connection Abu Zubaida had with al-Qaeda was a long relationship with Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks, officials said. Mohammed had approached Abu Zubaida in the 1990s about finding financiers to support a suicide mission, involving a small plane, targeting the World Trade Center. Abu Zubaida declined but told him to try bin Laden, according to a law enforcement source.
Abu Zubaida quickly told U.S. interrogators of Mohammed and of others he knew to be in al-Qaeda, and he revealed the plans of the low-level operatives who fled Afghanistan with him. Some were intent on returning to target American forces with bombs; others wanted to strike on American soil again, according to military documents and law enforcement sources.
Such intelligence was significant but not blockbuster material. Frustrated, the Bush administration ratcheted up the pressure -- for the first time approving the use of increasingly harsh interrogations, including waterboarding.
Peter Finn and Joby Warrick, "Detainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots", Washington Post, March 29, 2009
The Left's assault on the CIA program continues with today's front-page story about the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah: "Detainees Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots." The story, like so many on this program, is rife with errors and misinformation.Thiessen then continued on to base his entire argument oppositional to the Washington Post article on a lie:
In fact, what Abu Zubaydah disclosed to the CIA during this period was that the fact that KSM was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks and that his code name was "Muktar" -- something Zubaydah thought we already knew, but in fact we did not. Intelligence officials had been trying for months to figure out who "Muktar" was. This information provided by Zubaydah was a critical piece of the puzzle that allowed them to pursue and eventually capture KSM.Note that Thiessen did not attempt to differentiate between information that was acquired before Zubaida was tortured and after, deceitfully dodging the primary claim made in the Washington Post article, that the torture of Zubaida provided no new information of value. The 9-11 Commission Report disagrees with with Thiessen's claim that Zubaida provided the heretofore unknown information about the real identity of Muktar:
The first piece of the puzzle concerned some intriguing information associated with a person known as "Mukhtar" that the CIA had begun analyzing in April 2001.The CIA did not know who Mukhtar was at the time-only that he associated with al Qaeda lieutenant Abu Zubaydah and that, based on the nature of the information, he was evidently involved in planning possible terrorist activities.Two Newspaper reports from September, 2006, also noted that this claim was false:
The second piece of the puzzle was some alarming information regarding KSM.On June 12,2001, a CIA report said that "Khaled"was actively recruiting people to travel outside Afghanistan, including to the United States where colleagues were reportedly already in the country to meet them, to carry out terrorist-related activities for Bin Ladin. CIA headquarters presumed from the details of the reporting that this person was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.In July, the same source was shown a series of photographs and identified a photograph of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as the Khaled he had previously discussed.
The final piece of the puzzle arrived at the CIA's Bin Ladin unit on August 28 in a cable reporting that KSM's nickname was Mukhtar. No one made the connection to the reports about Mukhtar that had been circulated in the spring. This connection might also have underscored concern about the June reporting that KSM was recruiting terrorists to travel,including to the United States. Only after 9/11 would it be discovered that Muhktar/KSM had communicated with a phone that was used by Binalshibh, and that Binalshibh had used the same phone to communicate with Moussaoui, as discussed in chapter 7. As in the Moussaoui situation already described,the links to Binalshibh might not have been an easy trail to find and would have required substantial cooperation from the German government. But time was short, and running out.
Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Official Government Edition; Chapter 8: The System Was Blinking Red; pg 277
- Dan Eggen and Dafna Linzer, "Secret World of Detainees Grows More Public", Washington Post, September 7, 2006
- Mark Mazzetti, "Questions Raised About Bush's Primary Claims in Defense of Secret Detention System", New York Times, September 8, 2006













Yes. Cheney and the Neocon cabal continue the same lies. I think most of the Bush claims about foiling plots and arresting real threats were exaggerated, if not made up (why were many of the accused terrorists arrested at later dates mentally disturbed?). Whenever they had anything that could remotely be claimed as some kind of victory justifying the WOT illegal programs, they would announce loudly it (in one case spoiling a large months long UK investigation).
Ours was a pervasive, deliberate and systematic program of torture. Perhaps only a few were waterboarded, but many were driven mentally tortured, some permanently mentally or physically damaged (as many as 100 killed during "enhanced interrogations"). We have become the "barbarians" we always accuse our enemy of being and the whole world, excepting many Americans, knows it.
Most experts (including a group of retired Generals) asserted all along that torture does not provide reliable intelligence. Even if it does, do we want that to be the new standard for treatment of our own POWs or accused criminals.
I think a real investigation would show that we tortured some knowing (or ignoring evidence) that they were innocent. This, of course, included all kinds of methods and usually works by applying many different "stress" techniques over a period of time. The APA needs to answer for their assistance or inaction in this, too.
The Red Cross by virtue of secrecy agreements and years of monitoring POW treatment should be the final word on torture. A report leaked weeks ago confirms that the US was torturing "enemy combatants" worldwide. This is indisputable evidence of war crimes and can't be ignored forever.
March 31, 2009 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I read your first sentence, chills ran up and down my spine!
My day will now shift gears.
Meanwhile, in addition to reading the rest of the sentences, I suggest to your readers this post and the many comments at emptywheel this weekend. The post contains links to previous posts there and elsewhere. And the many comments are worth reading as well.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/29/cheney-lies-obstruction-of-justice-torture-tape-destruction/
It's worth going back to read previous entries there, where for a long time this very topic has been minutely dissected.
Thank you, PCA, for this important post! And for your tireless efforts on behalf of the American ideals we have so terribly betrayed - through state-sponsored torture - quite possibly to hide the bungling of foolish and perfidious "leaders".
These torturers are no heroes.
March 31, 2009 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can someone direct me to the indisputable proof that the practice of rendition has been stopped? I'm not sure that it has.
March 31, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I fear that rendition, by its very nature, is a secret. We can't disprove an unknown. And this is what happens when a state sponsors such evil deeds: How does one know if they have come to an end?
Loss of trust. We've lost trust, haven't we?
It's like being trapped in a Greek tragedy!
March 31, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are renditions, and there are extraordinary renditions. The former are lawful under both US and International law. The primary legitimising standard being Article 3 of The Convention against Torture:
Obama's January 22, 2009 Executive Order: Ensuring Lawful Interrogations, has been a cause of some debate as to whether extraordinary renditions were banned by him.Noted International Human Rights advocate and attorney, Scott Horton, believes that this Executive Order has banned extraordinary renditions, and has penned a short concise comparison between the two types of rendition:
Scott Horton, "Renditions Buffoonery", Harpers Magazine, February 2, 2009
I am not one to believe politicians based on their own word, and think time alone will tell whether extraordinary renditions have been banned. At the very least, extraordinary renditions as official public policy of the US Government has been banned, and circumventing this ban now requires an executive finding for each instance.
March 31, 2009 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't know about the 2 kinds of rendition, PCA. Thanks for the info on this.
April 1, 2009 2:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read this and my head wants to explode. So, you have to wonder, did they destroy the tapes because the tapes would have shown that torture led to useless information?
Vietnam had useless "body counts" & the torture program led to useless reams of "information" - which had no value whatsoever.
They've destroyed the evidence that torture was done for NOTHING! To NOBODIES!
And they've destroyed our values, our ideals, and our trust. All to protect a bunch of cowards who could not admit they got the wrong guys - who knew nothing! And let the Bin Laden get away....
March 31, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excuse me, if you will, for repeating something I said in a previous comment. In both cases it is slightly off-subject but I think pertinent.
Nobody who is implicated in crimes, be it torture or illegal surveillance, or other violations of the Constitution, and U S, or international law, and treaties, are claiming that they are innocent of those crimes. { A few claim in certain cases that th President can do any damned thing he pleases if he declares an emergency and it is then legal] Instead, they are waging a public relations campaign to make enough American citizens support their position so that prosecution will not happen or will not be successful. They know what everyone here knows, they are objectively and provably guilty of statutory crimes and of crimes against the Constitution that they swore to uphold, and crimes against humanity.
Any time they get a public forum they say that what they did was “necessary”, that what they did “Saved American lives”, that what they did “kept America safe”. They know that if brought to trial they will be found guilty on the facts.
They are shooting for jury Annulment before the fact of the trial. They are starting with, I would guess, about thirty-five to forty pecent of the [American electorate] jury on their side. About twenty- five percent [another guess] is ambivalent and uninvolved. I wish it wasn't so, but I would bet, right now, that they get away with it if their convictions are the only measure. I would give about two to one that no high official is convicted .
March 31, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is why it is important to document that claims regarding the efficacy of torture as an interrogatory methodology are lies, as well as being Un-American.
March 31, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good post PCA.
March 31, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Ah yes . . .
There's lies by the liars and there's lies by liars supporting the liars that lie.
Got it . . .
. . . although actually...
I've had it.
~OGD~
March 31, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post, PCA. It is well-researched, well written and uses good logic. Thanks for setting such high standards. I always like that in your work.
March 31, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kudos, kudos and more kudos for a well-done and well-researched post. To have been able to go back to Chap.8 of the 9-11 Commission Report and link Muktar's known identity origins and compare those with Thiessen's claims is PCA at his best.
One thing that bugs the hell out of me are claims like Thiessens in his NRO post that goes something like:
Never once have I seen a rationale for why the Left is "desperate to discredit" the efficacy of torture from these people. I mean if it really worked and there was foolproof proof that torture had actually saved the US homeland and thousands of lives in the process, I doubt there would be any politician within a million miles of any attempts to discredit it.
March 31, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, Thiessen used the alternate spelling, Zubaydah, causing me to think this was an intentional attempt to further obfuscate facts.
March 31, 2009 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if Thiessen would respond if someone were to email him portions of this post:
marcthiessen[@]gmail.com
Let me guess that the common spelling is Zubaida?
March 31, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zubaydah was the common spelling used at first, but the common spelling has now changed to Zubaida.
There are often multiple variants in English transliterations of Arabic names. This can be a source of difficulty when attempting to do proper research: Usama or Osama; al Qaeda or al Qaida. I am aware of three separate individuals with "al Libbi" in their names, who at different times during the Bush Administration were claimed to be al Qaida top dogs. Although my knowledge of Arabic is nil, this still strikes me as being extremely improbable, and I believe that at least one of the al Libbi's was captured, then tortured in Pakistan, before being handed-off to the US, and shipped to Guantanamo Bay, flaunted by both Musharraf and Bush as an al Qaida two, yet I don't recall any al Libbi being on a list of those who have been scheduled for trial as "unlawful combatants".
March 31, 2009 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh yeah, I'm fairly certain that NRO has apprentice flunkies who are tasked with scanning the web and server log referrals for NRO related content. I know this to be a fact with a few right-sided orgs, based on server logs I have access to.
March 31, 2009 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which means that he can ignore that which does not conform to his opinion.
My referral's are blocked, but no doubt there is a fairly long trail from there to here by now.
April 1, 2009 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink