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My Take on Bill Moyers Single Payer Expose (Excellent)


Last night Bill Moyers Journal had an excellent fact based expose on Single Payer Insurance. Some clips are used to illustrate the realities behind why we must have such a system. President Obama understands that the state of our health insurance system will bankrupt both the country and individuals within. In fact he understood that single payer insurance was the only way out in 2003. If he does not use his ability to educate the masses as to what is at stake and support Single Payer Healthcare Insurance unnecessary deaths will continue. It would be the equivalent of Health Insurance Sanctioned Manslaughter.

And my next rant: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-262550

http://SinglePayerHealthcareNow.com

http://PoliticalTruths.info

 


76 Comments

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Moyers, at times in his life, was truly a voice in the wilderness. Always worried about the powerless, the trod upon. A real hero of mine. I try never to miss him and we get to see him twice up here in this market.

Thank you for this!!!

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Moyers is one of those rare individuals who realized early on how important it is to actually put one's beliefs into practice. His background as a minister was, in my opinion, the launching point for his resolute determination to bring light to the darkness.

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Moyers at one time was a speechwriter for President LBJ>

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Yes, and a Baptist minister too.

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Thanks.

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Thanks for posting this. I knew he was doing it, but didn't catch it. Sid Wolf is great, and of course, Bill Moyers is a treasure. I actually don't agree with the idea of no co-pays, which is discussed. Having worked as a nurse in a practice in DC years ago that had that model, people truly abused it.

I saw people who literally woke up with a sore throat at 8 am and were in the office waiting to be seen at 9 am, and on being told they were probably getting a cold, since they didn't have a fever or lymph node swelling, or even a red throat, would then ask for a doctor's note so they could go back to work and get paid for the morning. Talk about long lines! Some small disincentive is needed; even $10 would be fine -- waive it for those who can't afford it, or even have a sliding scale.

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"Disincentives" always end up harming someone unnecessarily. Properly setting triage nursing and, beyond that, better health education, routine checkup and monitoring structure and so on is the better option -- not to mention changing the corporate culture to be more accepting of sick time rather than forcing people to come to work sick so they can pass their diseases along to everyone else too.

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I'm with you Karl. Proper triage nursing, education and not having to work when one is sick sound much better that disincentives.

(Abusers will always find a way to abuse, anyhow)


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Corporate culture is certainly part of the whole going to work sick thing. But its not just the corporate culture that needs changing, its individual values. Working sick just one more manifestation of the rampant workaholism in this country. Instead of being condoned, and even rewarded, it should be treated as being about as anti-social as walking around puffing on a big, cheap, rotten-stinky stogie would be.

Probably take a another really dangerous pandemic to make that happen, though.

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That wasn't actually the problem CD was commenting on - it was people using a trip to the doctor's office as a way to get the morning off.

Not saying the issues you raise aren't germane, but personal responsibility for eating right, exercising and using common sense when it comes to judging one's health without medical assistance is sorely needed as well.

We are a nation of hypochondriacs and that particular problem will bankrupt the system long before it is efficient enough to become self-sustaining.

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Speak for yourself. I haven't visited a doctor in years, have rarely found they could do much for the malady when I did and do what I can to stay healthy and out of maw of our healthcare system. Healthy food, a fair bit of exercise, and keeping vices to a minimum (along with the luck of the gene draw) helps.

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You're preaching to the choir. I never go to the doctor and rarely eat processed foods. We are the exception and not the rule.

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I think an immediate cost-share is important, whether it is called a "disincentive" or not. You could instead call it an incentive towards sound mindful use of a costly resource.

Your story reminds me of the "tragedy of the commons".


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Good catch! Thanks for the post on this. I think down the road we'll wind up with single payer. My preferred solution for sure. In the meanwhile, I just hope a government option does not get sliced out of the legislation. Over time, everyone will move to the govt option. The insurances know they can't really compete with the got. Why pay healthcare dollars to feed the insurance beasts? They're nothing but greedy toll booths - taking your money - it's medicine that provides the service!

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Don't just hope. Write Obama, Baucus and Rangel. And any others who sit on the committees. CC your local rep and senators. I'll be writing an action alert for my local township party email list this week spelling out the benefits of SP and how to contact these folks. I'll post it on TPM.

We're then going to use it as the basis for a petition for folks to sign at our local town fest booth at the end of June.

Thanks PT, some of these quotes will come in handy for my post.

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The best healthcare reform plan of all those I have read is in a small paperback: 
Healthcare, Guaranteed, by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (formerly of the NIH) 
It is the best of public oversight and private delivery. His Guaranteed Healthcare Access Plan:



1) guarantees coverage for 100% of Americans at the level of the insurance currently provided to members of Congress



2) gives everyone a choice of insurers, hospitals and doctors



3) changes the fee-for-service paradigm and focuses on high-quality, co-ordinated healthcare with emphasis on outcome; information flow in both directions is vital 



4) pays for itself from a dedicated fund that cannot be raided for other government programs



5) encompasses the framework for reasonable and timely dispute resolution



6) separates health insurance from employment, getting that function off the backs of businesses and eliminating the primary cause of labor disputes



7) ) achieves cost controls through eliminating redundant bureaucracies, fraud and excessive administrative costs



You can watch Dr. Emanuel outline his plan on PBS here:



http://www.pbs.org/now/news/315.html



The plan is simple and comprehensive. I recommend it to anyone interested in true healthcare reform. This is the moment - let's be bold and get it right.

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I completely disagree. Zeke wants to keep insurance companies and have the government pay them extra when they sign up people who are sick. He wants to discontinue Medicare and Medicaid, and it is not simple.

Giving people a choice of insurers means nothing. At the moment, seniors have a choice of which path to take for prescription drugs and it is so complicated and convoluted it is ridiculous. It is the only part of Medicare that doesn't work well. The language insurance companies use is there for the purpose of confusing people. How else could they say that they will pay 100% of something, but when your bill comes you find out that what they REALLY meant was they will pay 100% of what they decided the treatment or test was worth, and you have to pay the rest, minus a negotiated amount that each insurance company has done separately.

Everyone having health insurance does not equal everyone having adequate coverage.

#7 is especially disingenuous: As long as there are layers of profits, advertising, etc, there will be wasteful uses of money, because money will be spent on things other than health care delivery. It's going to "get rid of fraud?" Right. As long as there is a way to profit by simply being a gate-keeper, fraud will be possible. "Excessive Administrative Costs?" Like advertising? Like salaries of people who do nothing all day except think of new ways to say no; or their counterparts in the doctors' offices who do nothing but call the first bunch of people to plead for "pre-auth's?" Like profits to stockholders?

If you want the best plan for healthcare reform, look at Canada and England, and do the things that we like from each, leaving out whatever we don't.

Zeke Emmanuel's plan is a stinker, and it does NOT give us what we need.

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Um, actually more like France than the UK.

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OK, I'll go with France's plan any day!

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Ha! Why do you hate America? All real Amurkans trust the Free Market and also want to secede from the Union.

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Pass the Freedom Fries, Karl!

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My only exception is that for profit insurance has no place in the system.

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Actually profit has not business in health care or at least as another way to get rich. Getting rich off of other peoples tragedies is immoral at best
and just plain slimey.

C

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Healthcare needs to show big profits to Wall St. We can't count on green energy alone to puff up the next wildly unsustainable financial bubble all by itself!!! We must funnel unnecessary trillions to big financiers and let them keep doing to the healthcare sector what they did for finance, housing and manufacturing otherwise we may not fall into a decades long depression!!!

What, wait, this isn't Red States? Sorry, never mind, wrong blog.

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Solid Report PoliticalTruths! :) I just finished watching the whole Motyers episode online.

The protesting is going OK. But we're going to have to find another method of sticking a wrench in the Insurance Company's gears.

THOUGHT: Can we organize all the uninsured that owe Hospitals to STOP ALL PAYMENTS until Single Payer is At the Table? Or, better, enacted? [I was once hit with a $4000 bill after 3 hours at an emergency room while uninsured. GFY George W. Bush...]

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Related to this statement...

But we're going to have to find another method of sticking a wrench in the Insurance Company's gears.

Read the letter from Health Care for America Now at:

tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/oldengoldendecoy/2009/05/hcan-calls-for-antitrust-and-anticompetitive-conduct-investigation-of-health-insurers.php

That's one sure-fire way to throw a wrench in their gears.

~OGD~

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Cville Dem, I don't know where you're getting your ideas about Zeke Emmanuel's plan, but it's not from his book. For example:

Your first point, that govt. would pay insurance companies more for a patient who is sick / has a pre-existing condition. What you leave out is that the insurance company may NOT turn down any patient who chooses it. So not only can an insurer not cherry-pick patients, it has no incentive to because it is fairly compensated for the services delivered.

Your second point - yes, Medicare and Medicaid are rolled into the new healthcare plan, not "discontinued" as you present. And that applies only to new enrollees.

You complain that insurers don't pay 100% when they say they're going to now. We agree. But in Emanuel's plan, the patient is out of the payment loop, so your point doesn't event compute. Payment rates are set annually by the Regional Health Boards and they pay the insurers directly.

As for your discussion of point #7, insurance companies can waste all the money they want on things you list. But their compensation is set by the Regional Health Board - in other words, their income is limited. If they want to blow their profits on wasteful spending, they will not long be in business. They can't choose patients who need less care nor can they raise their rate of compensation by denying coverage, so the income side is limited. They'll have to learn to live within their income or go out of business.

I really suggest that you read Dr. Emmanuel's book, CVille Dem. His plan is far superior to that in England or Canada.

http://www.amazon.com/Healthcare-Guaranteed-Simple-Solution-America/dp/1586486624/

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What is the purpose of the insurance company in this system? Why is it needed?

We need to have a choice of clinicians. We don't need a choice of insurance companies.

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The question always comes down to this, does the politician listen to a few people with a lot of money or a lot of people with little money? Well, if the politician understands the wrong decision is the end of his career, he goes with a few peopl with a lot of money. We need to have widesprad protests in front of every medical provider.

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"I really suggest that you read Dr. Emmanuel's book, CVille Dem. His plan is far superior to that in England or Canada."

I have heard him; I have read him. His plan is not in any way superior to those is England or Canada. Not in cost, and not in outcomes. That is simply untrue. You have no data to back up what you say.

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How can you possibly have minimized cost as long as some of the money is profit, advertising expenses, CEO salaries, and dividends. Getting rid of the profit and sales expense motives add so much more into healthcare. Why are we donating monies to companies just to redistribute money. It makes no sense.

No matter how you sugar coat it, you are trying to justify the existence of a money skimmer.

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Someone is skimming money, whether it is government or business.

Medicare is barely more efficient than for-profit insurance companies, they simply insure far fewer people and only pay 80% of the billed amount. True, they don't bear executive costs or advertising, retention costs or litigation fees, but it is not fair to say that Medicare (or Medicaid at the state level) is actually a better solution. They aren't. Certainly no worse, but barely better and for a number of reasons.

Scale Medicare to cover the whole nation at 100% and the story changes with regards to their efficiency.

We need to get out of this all or nothing mentality. What if through regulation eventually the only model that would work for insurance companies is a non-profit model? We have plenty of data to support a non-profit model for the delivery of important social services, usually done very efficiently on a shoe-string budget compared to government agencies or bloated commercial companies.

What seems to be missing from this debate on both sides is a willingness to understand that this solution is going to be hybrid of some sort as we work toward our final solution. "Single Payer: is not the panacea it is made out to be because not a single country offers "Free Medical" to 320 million citizens. Scale is extremely important to this debate.

Love Moyers, but I am not so sure he really looked into some of the downside that would come with this system without some major fixes in a number of very important and fundamental areas, not the least of which being the medical IQ of a huge country filled with hypochondriacs.

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Let's not leave out lobbying expenses either. The insurance companies will do what they can to gum up caps on their incomes, hamstring care, and browbeat legislators and the electorate with the message the new system doesn't work.

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This is something that I suggest you look at:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/cville_dem/2009/01/forget-single-payer-orthe-obam.php

And here is Zeke, in his own words:

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/audio/extended_interview_with_dr_ezekiel_emanuel.mp3

You (and Zeke) and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. There is no system in the world that provides care better or at better value when money is siphoned off for profits and all the other things I have listed untold times.

I agree that with Zeke's plan insurance companies cannot refuse to cover people regardless of pre-existing conditions. Under Zeke's plan the government would subsidize those companies so that they could continue to make profits and reward their stockholders.

Under MY program, ALL people: young and healthy, old and sick, or even well, but needing preventive care; would be in the pool. They would all contribute and therefore it would be affordable for all -- risk would be shared. The young and healthy would not get back all they contributed -- UNTIL they got older or sick. It works in every other single developed country, and it is less expensive than the way we do it here. I am so sick of repeating myself, but wake up and smell the coffee! Our health care is far more expensive than anything else in the world, and with outcomes that suck!

I have heard Zeke personally -- I have read what he wrote -- I think he is wrong, and I think you are wrong.

Do you think our police, fire departments and schools would be better and less expensive if there was an agency in between us and them collecting money and then passing off to them what the agency thought they deserved, pocketing the rest?

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I will bail on Obama if we do not move toward single payer. We must. The insurance companies are a fraud.

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I'll be right beside you.

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Rec'd. Single payer is the only way to go. Anything else is BS. BS that kills.

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Unmitigated Audacity: "BS that kills [and causes bankruptcy]"

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Thanks for posting this.

During the primary campaign, I remember Obama explaining his current rejection of "single payer" with, (to paraphrase):

"If we were starting from scratch, 'single payer' would be the way to go."

What confuses me is... our healthcare system is so completely broken down, how can anyone think we are in a position to do anything but "start from scratch"?

Even Robert Reich's most recent plan seems like he's "robbing Peter to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic."

(Sorry for that... I'm trying to avoid metaphors that include cosmetics and barnyard animals.)

As always, Bill Moyers brings more perspective to the discussion.

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Eyeliner on goats?

Rouge on sheep?

Foundation on chickens?

I don't see the problem with any of these. ;-)

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Boyd are we talking about that reporter from the New Republic with the goat sex ring who hates Sotomayor again?

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Not sure who that is. But anything involving the phrase "goat sex ring" can't possibly turn out well.

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Here's the link to watch the Bill Moyers Episode on the topic at hand:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/watch.html

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Obama faces the same problem the Clintons faced. Congress is made up of people who need either the campaign donations from the insurance industry, or the assurance that that industry won't finance a competitor's campaign. No health care plan that cuts the insurance companies out of the loop will ever pass Congress.

Likewise, Congress and the Military are made up of people who want money and retirement "jobs" from the armaments industry, so no Congress will make big cuts in the projects that industry needs to continue making money faster than armaments.

We need a way to insulate Congress from corporate money. One way would be a Constitutional Amendment that restricts all rights enumerated in the Constitution to voters. That would include financial activity as well as voting and advertising. Since corporations can't vote, they couldn't hand out the candy to Congresspeople.

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You've changed the posting date on this - from yesterday to today. And that's not really fair to others who have blogs up. If you want to restart the clock today, you can post another blog. But it's not fair to repost the very same blog, as if it had been published today.

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Absolutely correct, TheraP! I was just about to post the same sentiment.

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Again guys apologies, it will not happen again!

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You can go back and fix it, you know!

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Sometimes a good post doesn't get play until late in the TPM Arbitrary Cycle of Blog Prominence. less popular bloggers often go overlooked -- not because they have nothing of importance to say, but because they get overshadowed by those blessed with greater popularity and a large fan base.

Being the free thinking liberal that I am, I'm not too bent out of shape with a blogger tweaking the date of his/her post to keep a good discussion going. Now, (in my best Mika Brzenzski voice) "that being said," abusing the ability to twiddle with the date is a whole 'nother problem.

Perhaps the appropriate etiquette would limit a blogger (by means of his or her own conscience) to tweaking the date on a solitary post.

Is date twiddling a greater sin than posting multiple blogs in a day? Or posting giant, long-ass blogs and not using the "read more" feature? (full disclosure, that is a "sin" I have committed multiple times to my chagrin.) I would not have seen this blog if the date had not been twiddled with a tweak.

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This one had already risen to the top, Jade!

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And it wasn't just "tweaked" - it was a whole 24 hours!

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Again, I was just about to post similar sentiment, TheraP. Again, you are absolutely correct.

The original blogger should immediately readjust the date to the original posting.

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Good gawd ...

The earth just spun off it's axis . . .

~OGD~

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There ya go.... ;)

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Full of grace and class as always, TheraP.

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Jade: one set of sins doesn't justify the other, indeed, it simply gives more reason to have the system break down.

Multiple blogs in a single day is distasteful, but not a violation of anything really. Proactively changing a date is wrong and cheating in a very real sense of the word.

I agree that there is a lot of blather here and that clogs up the reader posts, but there are more effective ways of dealing with those offenders. It's no secret that there is an inner clique here which is why the typical number of recommendations runs to 10-20, that's a good enough starting base to guarantee which posts float to the top. But that doesn't justify gaming the system.

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What are the more effective ways of dealing with those "other problems?"

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I am sorry.. I made changes to the blog and simply changed the date to reflect that. My apologies. The intent was not to affect any other blog.

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But it did, you know. I made many updates to a blog from yesterday - today. But simply put up a second blog, letting people know about the other changes.

You can go back now and change the date. It's that easy. And that's the fair thing to do!

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Had I done what you did, my post would have superceded yours. And then there would have been two blogs up there unfairly. And suppose others had done the same....

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lovethesinner - He still makes the same statements about rejecting a single payer system in place of what we have now.

I have not heard him go back on putting forth a public health insurance option. With so many people having insurance already, I do not think it would be fair to take away their coverage and make them do something else.

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Prescription drugs cost near nothing to make. But the private industry cornered that market and called any price they want on it for all they can get. They are afraid that when the Gov gets involved all the extortion prices will be exposed and will have to lower their own prices. So instead of a $250 prescription it will cost only $2.50-7 dollars. The same goes for many other facets of the ripoff industry.
On another note, looking forward to the next time I see 4.50 a gallon gas.

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I learned something this weekend, from a public health professor at UCLA. The biggest reason the US's expected longevity ranks below at least half a dozen other industrialized nations has nothing to do with our healthcare system.

If you look at the charts, the big drag is the mortality of black males. And their big issue is the high mortality rate for black males under 30 yrs old.

Much as I agree with the need for a single-payer system, it's not going to solve this longevity disparity. So don't use it in political policy arguments.

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That doesn't explain infant mortality.

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I would take that professor's statement with a grain of salt. Blacks make up 13% of the population. Black men about 6%. Black men under 30 likely 2%. The percentage of those killed would be negligeable relative to the population at large. While it may skew the numbers it would not be enough to explain the differences. I would be more concerned about your professors ideologi and ethics than his statement.

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Spelling: ideology.

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I'd like to know . . .

. . . the professor's name.

That way I can contact the professor directly and cross check the statistical information that the professor has used in support of the statement. I'm at UCLA on the average of 3 days a week. It shouldn't be too hard to get in touch with this professor

~OGD~

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I for one, am glad that this stayed up as long as it did. Thanks

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Me too. If it wasn't at the top of the list am I and had floated off the page I would have missed it entirely.

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make that "this am"

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great post!

While single payer is nice, and I would be happy with it, it is not the only route to universal quality coverage. Germany, for instance, doesn't have single payer but has excellent health care. Why does Germany's system work so well? Becuase of strict regulation and pricing controls, and a big public role.

The key criteria for any system are:

* A public plan to compete with private plans, that anyone can join regardless of health status
* Strict regulation of pricing and practices of private companies

A public plan could eventually lead to single payer, if the private plans don't and can't compete. People would flock to the plan with the best service and pricing.

I believe the public plan option is absolutely necessary to keep the system honest.


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Well, there goes the need for my edifying comment. :)

Your two criteria are critical. Reducing health care costs is directly tied to forcing for-profit insurers to dial back their margins. They won't do that unless there is a lower-cost option that people can join freely. And, if they still refuse to lower their costs, the market will eventually do them in. As you correctly noted, single payer is not the only way to do this.

Somewhat off topic...for those in the above thread who talked about bailing on Obama if we don't start moving toward single payer...it should be noted that he never campaigned on a single payer platform. He always intended to introduce a public option, but never endorsed going straight to single payer.

The point, of course, being that if you supported him during last year's campaign, it seems at worst hypocritical to now withdraw said support if he doesn't deliver on an ideal that he never campaigned for in the first place.

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I agree, Boyd. As adamant as I am on Single Payer, Obama did not campaign on it.

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Another thing to keep in mind. Obama knows that immediately going to single payer would throw millions more out of work right when that's the last thing we need. All those insurance actuaries and doctors office clerks, not just HMO CEOs would go on unemployment right now under single payer when we're trying climb out of the worst recession since the Great Depression with no guarantee we won't collapse into one every bit as bad. If the public option is done right, the writing will be on the wall and it'll kill off healthcare insurance companies soon enough with time for the millions who work in it to find productive work.

Let's not kid ourselves folks. There's millions of folks who are otherwise Democratic voters who work in these businesses who aren't going to root for - or vote for - anybody who puts an end to their livelihoods unless they find something else to for a living. Changing healthcare is necessary but it is probably one of the largest, if not the largest, societal engineering challenges this country has ever faced.


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Perhaps I should have said my support for BHO will be contingent on his honest consideration of single-payer or at minimum a public option, and more to the point the inclusion as opposed to the exclusion of such options in the discussion of health care reform.

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Right- and one thing to emphasize is that whatever the "public option" (single-payer, whatever) is, it MUST, contrary to the GOP/insurance-industry line, be competitive, i.e. that it must be able to lure people away from the private plans. Otherwise private insurance has no incentive to improve.

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