Americans Are Not Starving: Hurray for Capitalism!
I'd like to share this very informative article about hunger in America.
http://mises.org/story/3776
Part of the problem with debates on economics is that people throw around terms like "starvation" etc. No doubt people are eating unhealthy, people are worried they could starve and a few people even miss a meal once in a while. But actual starvation in America is almost unheard of.
http://mises.org/story/3776
Part of the problem with debates on economics is that people throw around terms like "starvation" etc. No doubt people are eating unhealthy, people are worried they could starve and a few people even miss a meal once in a while. But actual starvation in America is almost unheard of.
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Let's hope you have the chance to experience it firsthand sometime soon.
Take your hatred elsewhere.
November 1, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Old Grouch, I'm sure you'd love to wipe out that whole country if you could. Keep up with the bitter grouchiness, its working for you.
And all the while taking advantage of the great lifestyle capitalism has given you; having time to surf the net and threaten other users.
November 1, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes well thanks to social programs like Food Stamps starvation is not as big a problem in our world as it is in third world countries.
Our health care costs way too much and is not as good as many other small countries.
Our banking industry has collapsed taking much of people savings and retirement with them.
Capitalism isn't bad but it must have checks and balances. Without regulation and controls human beings use capitalism to the detriment of other human beings.
You seem to be in support of the abuses of pure capitalism.
Thus the name pirate suits you.
November 1, 2009 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, I like the name myself.
I will say this: programs like food stamps and the earned income tax credit are perhaps "less evil" than a lot of other government programs. They still stunt economic growth.
No one starves in this country, but they wouldn't starve even if we got rid of food stamps. You know why? Our productive capacity is so high and there is so much opportunity here. We have tons and tons of food.
Consider illegal aliens. Many of them are either ineligible for food stamps or refuse to obtain benefits. And none of them are starving.
November 1, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well we could argue over these points as you've not presented any data to prove these people are not 'starving'.
However until you are willing to look at what doesn't work with unchecked capitalism,
I will accept your example of using hunger, where a social program exists to prevent it, as case and point that capitalism requires checks, regulations, and balances in order to be healthy for a society. Economic growth at the expense of life, health, or integrity is not worth very much.
November 2, 2009 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I will accept your example of using hunger, where a social program exists to prevent it, as case and point that capitalism requires checks, regulations, and balances in order to be healthy for a society. "
Your welcome to think what you may. If believing in the welfare state is something you really need to wake up in the morning, go for it. The evidence suggests otherwise.. We can eliminate food stamps and public schools today and the country will be immediately better off.
November 2, 2009 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
pirate
pi⋅rate/ˈpaɪrət/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pahy-ruht] –noun
1. a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea.
2. any plunderer, predator, etc.: confidence men, slumlords, and 'other' pirates.
You like the title... as you say.
November 2, 2009 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
"a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea."
Aaar! Your ship is filled with bloated socialist bureaucracy and unvalidated assumptions. I'll lighten your load, ye yellow-bellied bilge-rat
November 2, 2009 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think your thinking reflects the number 2 definition more appropriately.
November 2, 2009 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you sure you gave a definition for pirate? That sounds an awful lot like the definition of a government.
November 2, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only person throwing around the word "starvation" around here is you. It is not found once in the article that you linked to above.
So quit exaggerating, ok?
November 1, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cynant, it says "struggling with hunger", which comes close to starvation.
November 1, 2009 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are there no Workhouses? No prisons? Eh, 'pirate?'
You are one sick twist. Hunger and death from it do exist in the U.S., especially among our most vulnerable citizens, Children, the elderly, and minorities. But fuck them as long as you got yours, right? All your cowardly pretending won't change the facts, nor will your pathetic selfish self-involvement sway many, unless of course, they are as selfish and self involved as you. That is what is 'practically unheard of.' People so selfish they are willing to twist the fact to actively hurt the less fortunate.
Look up the term Noblesse Oblige, not only should those better off help the less fortunate, we have an obligation to.
That's called having a society, son.
November 1, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bwakfat,
Twit? I sense some kind of Limey here.. Did I guess right?
Read the article I posted:
here
The 1 in 8 figure is a wag.
Now I notice you had to bring out an 18 year old study, it's already behind the times.
No one is denying that some people are not getting the proper nutrition. Or even that some people might be occasionally hungry. However, there is a lot of ignorance on what "hungry in America" means. The article breaks it down.
People are not starving to death due to poverty in America. That is just the truth. You say death from hunger exists in America, show me that even 20 people in the whole country died that way last year.
November 1, 2009 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice side stepping. You addressed nothing, which is par for the course with you Randians.
Malnutrition most certainly leads to disease that kills thousands. Here, in America, even. You can twist around facts, and say that people die from pnemonia, or other killer diseases, but the cause is poor nutrition. It is no surprise that our infant mortality rate is worse than Cubas. The babies die due to malnourished mothers, which causes low birth weights. You CAN google, yes? Or can you only think the way others tell you to think.
Let me repeat, malnutrition most certainly leads to disease that kills thousands. THAT is the truth. Why are you afraid of it? Does it make you uncomfortable? Well, it should.
Try thinking outside the little box you live in. There's a whole wide world out there, and it's bigger than you. You can live in it, let others live in it, or help others live in it.
Helping others is the highest form of achievement. Maybe someday you'll get there, but you'll need to start thinking for yourself instead of following $$$ and your narrow self-interest. $$$ won't remember you when you are dust, but those you have helped will.
That is the type of wealth that actually means something.
November 2, 2009 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is good. This is really gooooooooooood.
I hereby render unto Bwak the Dayly Comeback of the Day Award for this here TPMCafe Site, given to all of you from all of me. hahahaha
I do so love Dickens.
November 2, 2009 2:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps just a bit of undigested beef...
November 2, 2009 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Liberalism and capitalism address themselves to the cool, well-balanced mind. They proceed by strict logic, eliminating any appeal to the emotions. Socialism, on the contrary, works on the emotions, tries to violate logical considerations by rousing a sense of personal interest and to stifle the voice of reason by awakening primitive instincts."
Von Mises
November 2, 2009 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS
One of the fundamental faults of capitalism is the basic axiom that if everybody tries to accumulate as much property as possible the general interest of the people will be served. All this seems to create is exploitation.
The factory owners try to reduce as much as possible their expenditures on employees. The factory and storeowners try to profiteer as much as possible without any concern for the public.
It has often been said that such a piggish axiom is needed to motivate people. But there are other motivations besides greed, such as, travel, interesting work, extra vacation time, shorter hours, a feeling of importance, and the feeling of happiness which comes from doing a good job and helping build a better community.
To support the wage-incentive axiom is the myth that luxuries brings happiness. Are we that much on an island that we have no compassion for our fellow man, for there are only so many loaves of bread in our country?
I think a system which is based on an assumption that man is basically piggish and therefore only fit to look after his own needs; such system impedes rather than promotes the good within each person.
JK
November 2, 2009 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The factory owners try to reduce as much as possible their expenditures on employees. The factory and storeowners try to profiteer as much as possible without any concern for the public."
Yes, this is how efficiency and innovation are created. Go on. You forgot to mention that the worker tries to get as high a wage as possible. Or that the customer tries to get the lowest price and the best quality.
"It has often been said that such a piggish axiom is needed to motivate people. But there are other motivations besides greed, such as, travel, interesting work, extra vacation time, shorter hours, a feeling of importance, and the feeling of happiness which comes from doing a good job and helping build a better community."
And your point is? Lots of companies do all of these things to try to get good employees.
"To support the wage-incentive axiom is the myth that luxuries brings happiness."
There is no iron link between happiness and wages, but rich countries are on average happier than poor countries. See here.
"Are we that much on an island that we have no compassion for our fellow man, for there are only so many loaves of bread in our country?"
*Yawn*. We've gone over this. There is no evidence that capitalism stifles the charitable instinct. In fact, the United States of America, which is said to have a weaker social safety net than Europe, gives far more to charities.
"I think a system which is based on an assumption that man is basically piggish and therefore only fit to look after his own needs; such system impedes..."
Capitalism isn't based on the assumption that man is fundamentally piggish. Capitalism is based on the concept respect. Respect for other people's rights, whether they be personal or property.
"rather than promotes the good within each person"
What is the point of being good in a socialist country, when that's the government's job?
November 2, 2009 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Three Faults with Capitalism
Well, yesterday I looked at three flaws with socialist solutions to a nation's problems.
(1) Decisions are made by people other than those who are the best informed.
(2) Decision makers are motivated by a number of concerns other than the public good.
(3) Political systems respond slowly (way too slowly) to changes circumstances.
Conclusion
So, capitalism has its problems. It allows for the gross misallocation of resources, it is a regulatory framework that is subject to all of the abuses of any regulatory abuses, and it can be fully extended and applied only at very great expense.
Socialism has its problems.
The question of whether to adopt capitalist or socialist solutions to our problems is not an either or question. It is a question that requires taking seriously the benefits and the problems that exist in each system and then trying to choose which tool is best for a given job.
http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2009/01/three-faults-with-capitalism.html
November 2, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Three Faults with Capitalism
"(1) Decisions are made by people other than those who are the best informed."
Are you saying the government would be more informed than producers or consumers? I think you know better.
"(2) Decision makers are motivated by a number of concerns other than the public good."
Exactly. Decisions are made by both concern for public good and self interest. Capitalism is more flexible than a society built on our best moments.
"(3) Political systems respond slowly (way too slowly) to changes circumstances."
The ideal capitalist society has no political system.
"It allows for the gross misallocation of resources"
The price system in capitalism is the best allocation system in the world. Do you really believe the government is better?
"can be fully extended and applied only at very great expense."
Ok, you've gone so bizarre I'm not even following you.
"Socialism has its problems."
Now you're going somewhere!
"The question of whether to adopt capitalist or socialist solutions to our problems is not an either or question."
Well until you confront the evidence, I'll say you're just in denial or not able to comprehend the evidence that capitalism is superior.
November 2, 2009 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I printed there was a quote from the link at the bottom. Not something I wrote myself. My error in making that clear.
However based on your response I have determined not to waste any more of my time conversing with someone I find so twisted, fixated, and lacking in wisdom.
November 2, 2009 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more response to the notion that 'reason' is supreme.
First, it is a masculine/feminine split that says the masculine principle is superior and correct and all feminine principles are lesser and incorrect.
This is at the core of all paradox.
The truth is that both have gifts and marvelous traits and both have failings and shortcomings.
It is easy to see the faults of your opposite to the degree you embody one principle more than another.
It is a demonstration of depth of awareness and character to be able to see the gifts of your opposite as well as your own shortcomings.
Capitalism is wonderful it has many gifts but capitalism alone is flawed and does damage.
Socialism is wonderful it has many gifts but socialism alone is flawed and does damage.
The masculine principle is wonderful bringing many gifts but the masculine alone is incomplete.
The feminine principle is wonderful bringing many gifts but the feminine alone is incomplete.
Life in its complexities calls for the masculine and feminine to dance together allowing what is appropriate in the moment.
(And let me qualify that I believe we all embody both masculine and feminine energy to varying degrees in a variety of balances and even within ourselves we are best served when these aspects of ourselves 'dance' allowing what is appropriate in the moment)
The masculine energy offers leadership and it will assuredly discern the shortcomings of the feminine but it cannot lead well if it is blind to the value of the feminine or its own weaknesses and shortcomings.
Heart and Mind are equally valuable to our essense.
November 2, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, they're just out of work.
November 1, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
"One more response to the notion that 'reason' is supreme."
Hmmm... are you going to admit you are often unreasonable? Can I get that from you?
"First, it is a masculine/feminine split that says the masculine principle is superior and correct and all feminine principles are lesser and incorrect."
Oh damn... this is very New Age.
"This is at the core of all paradox."
Uh oh... please, I don't want to hear the word Wiccan...
"The truth is that both have gifts and marvelous traits and both have failings and shortcomings."
Well yes, there is something to be said for chicks...
"Capitalism is wonderful it has many gifts but capitalism alone is flawed and does damage."
But you can't tell me who is being damaged.
"Socialism is wonderful it has many gifts but socialism alone is flawed and does damage."
again, look at the evidence..
"The masculine principle is wonderful bringing many gifts but the masculine alone is incomplete."
Look, I'm interested in reasoning. If you like being unreasonable, that is your prerogative.
"The feminine principle is wonderful bringing many gifts but the feminine alone is incomplete."
I'm glad you said that. I was worried woman would buy vibrators and think they're complete by themselves.
"Life in its complexities calls for the masculine and feminine to dance together allowing what is appropriate in the moment."
Ok, this has gone way too far. I don't know if you are a girl or a guy, and anyways I'm a little scared of cyber socialist chicks anyway.
"Heart and Mind are equally valuable to our essence."
Capitalism gives people time to focus on their heart. In North Korea people focus on avoiding starvation.
November 2, 2009 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I said until you can demonstrate that you can see the shortcomings of capitalism and the benefits of socialism, you are completely wasting everyone's time here.
November 2, 2009 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are like amoth drawn to the flame. Obviously you value our time very much or you wouldn't keep posting on here.
November 3, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am starving for justice.
I am starving for the righteous to overcome.
I am starving for prosecution of the evil ones.
I am starving for the death of Rush Limbaugh.
I am starving for the death of Glenn Beck.
I am starving for the death of Britt Hume.
I am starving for the death of Dick Cheney.
I am starving for the death of George W. Bush.
I am starving for the death of Michael Weiner Savage.
I am starving for the death of Liz Cheney
I am starving for the death of Michelle Bachman
I am starving for the death of Sean Hannity
I am starving for the death of Mitch McConnel
I am starving for the death John Boehner
I am starving for the death of those that would sign the death warrants of millions of people in this country.
Death warrants denying the innocent of any health care for their injuries and their diseases.
Death warrants denying truth over lies.
Death warrants denying the unemployed benefits besides employment.
I could go on.
But that is enough.
AMERICA IS STARVING FOR TRUTH
November 2, 2009 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice one Dick. I'd substitute all those deaths for wishing them to suffer a whole lot, and maybe beg for forgiveness, but only after they'd suffered a bunch.
November 2, 2009 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink