Liars, Anger and Fear... oh my!
Emotions aren't fashionable these days. Cooler heads around here are telling the hotter heads to lower the temperature and play it like the Fonz. Actually, I don't know if they ever were fashionable. Ever since the ancient Mesopotamian gods wiped out humanity in a pique of rage at all the ruckuss the kids were making - and then found that no one was left to feed them with sacrifices and such - people have been blaming their mistakes on emotions. Passions overcome us and make us do all kinds of silly things. Stock markets too high? Just too much irrational exuberance. Stock markets look too low? Too much fear. Steal Achilles slave-girl because she's kind of hot, and then realize you kind of need the guy? Well 'I just wasn't myself, dear friend'. Emotions are a convenient excuse. If we didn't have them, we'd have to invent them. We tend to invoke them only when we (or others) go wrong. And we tend to hold emotions responsible for leading us into error.
The Ancient Greek philosophical schools went so far as to base much of their moral philosophy on the eradication of emotions: they're just disturbances making us all excitable, clouding our thinking; much better off without them. Aristotle thought arousing emotions in political debate was illegitimate - a 'perversion' of the thinking faculties in those one was trying to persuade. The implication is that, if you're in an emotional state, you're not thinking straight.
There's something wrong with this whole picture. Emotions
don't just drop out of the sky (or the amygdala or the endocrine glands), and somehow
occasionally insinuate themselves into our otherwise pristine linear conceptual thinking.
In reality there's no clear line between thinking and feeling in general, and the line
disappears altogether when it comes to thinking about things that matter - our
cares, concerns, and values. There's no real difference between thinking
something is dangerous and feeling fear. There's no difference between thinking
something is a grievous loss and feeling grief. And there's no difference
between thinking something is outrageous and feeling enraged by it. There's no dividing line between making a hard-headed objective judgment about good and bad, right and wrong, and getting hot and bothered about it. They go hand in hand.
Of course you can stoke or calm people's feelings. But you do
so by giving them reason to think a threat is imminent or remote, grounds to hold that a loss is
terrible or just 'stuff' that 'happens', evidence that an outrage deeply egregious or
nobody's fault really. The reasons given can be good or bad, accurate or
misleading, but they remain reasons. And I'm not denying people can be misled in
their evaluative thinking, just as they can with plain descriptive theories
(eg. the 'Free Market Economy") or mathematical calculations (if a toss comes
up heads four times in a row, what are the chances it will be tails next?). But don't
pin the blame on emotions, people are just not always that smart in general. Emotions are perfectly reasonable for the most part.
This general 'reason versus emotion' thinking gets up my nose! People blame 'fear' for prolonging the recession; 'consumer confidence just needs to improve', goes the cable TV mantra. All I can say is, how about less 'confidence-promoting' happy talk, and a bit more focus on fixing the enduring risks of an economy teetering on a tight-rope with no safety-net beneath? People blame 'populist anger' at corporate give-aways, fraud, and theft, for being 'unproductive'. It's as though there's more hand-wringing about the anger than about the crimes and injustices which 'the powers that be' would rather paper over and tweak here and there. The moderates in and outside government, serious people dealing with serious issues, would rather avoid any serious action, the assumption being that there really isn't anything seriously wrong with the system...
- Seriously?!
Seventy six years ago a man called Pecora conducted a
thorough investigation of the financial crimes and mismanagement that led to
the Great Depression, skewering bankers in public hearings, laying out their
lies and venality, forcing immediate resignations of executives, and issuing a
report that raised public outrage to such a pitch that radical reforms of the
system were rammed through despite tough resistance from Wall Street. They
lasted almost until the end of the century. Why is such an investigation being
so conspicuously avoided this time? Well, the anger it might arouse would be so
inconvenient. It might get people thinking...
Frankly, if you're feeling calm, you're not thinking straight!
















Great post, oleeb!
You know, one of the quickest ways in which to raise anger in me and to spark a vigorous response from me is to play me for a sucker.
I don't apologize for this, as you can see here. It is a completely understandable response. It is in fact expected that people will respond this way in an effort to protect themselves and preserve their dignity.
And so having read these things about Goldman Sachs, our health insurance industry and all the rest of the ways in which we re being played for suckers, I am left with one major question: Where is the outrage?
I keep looking for patriots to join in loud and angry defense of this country, and find way too many sheep.
And THAT pisses me off even further!
July 20, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that really pissees me off! The pug goes and writes a brilliant post, and you go and credit oleeb. Jeez-Louise!
July 20, 2009 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you Michelle, take a fine comment by Sleepin and credit Louise... outrageous!
July 20, 2009 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
OOPS! lol
July 20, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sleepin, I'm so honored you took me for Oleeb! (Don't know how he'll feel about it, though... ;0)
Yeah- what really riles me up is the absence of outrage. The whole 'wooo man, lets not go too far in changing this wonderful system' schtick gets to me.
July 20, 2009 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting post, Oleeb. Democrats tend to appeal to the public through logic and Republicans through emotions. Perhaps that explains how Republicans can have any traction at all right now.
The GOP embedded emotional triggers into their communications strategy long ago. Democrats have been slow to catch on.
The GOP are masters at redirecting blame to Democrats and convincing a change-averse public that what they really have to fear are rules and regulations that might encroach on their freedom. They've learned well which buttons to push to win people to their side even if the policy they're pushing isn't in their best interest or that of the country.
Maybe the Dems are so estranged from the emotional front they have no idea how to manipulate public rage to their advantage (and the country's). This is a critical strategic deficit.
Nice historic connections.
July 20, 2009 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. Obey!
July 20, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
(why does everyone think I'm Oleeb today...?)
I don't actually buy into the idea that Republicans appeal to emotions whereas Democrats appeal to reason. I don't think there is any dichotomy there. That's one of the motivations behind this post. What the Republicans do is lie about the basic facts, and the press does not call them on it. They offer simple narratives, well constructed over the long-term, that creates distrust of democrats. Free-markets vs socialist dependence on the state. Traditional values vs amoral debauchery (and butchery). You undercut the trust accorded to Democrats by discrediting their character - and thereby whatever policies that they propose, whatever its material merits on the surface.
Not that Republican tactics are all that successful anymore. They're a small regional party now. They have what little power they have because the moderates and the press want them to have it.
It's not about emotion vs reason. That way of looking at it gives an inflated view of the insidious nature of their threat (how do you counter 'emotion'?) and misunderestimates the power of conviction their arguments can bear.
July 20, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obey, you make a compelling case. I think there's room for more than one point of view, though. I give the GOP message machine more credit than you, and I think they're regaining their edge.
You've mentioned the media doesn't call Republicans on their misinformation. You are so right.
Two members of Congress have been published in my local paper over the past two weeks. Both times, early in their pieces, they made misleading statements about the potential impacts of the issues they were addressing (energy legislation and health care reform). For example, today, Adam Putnam equated the bureaucracy that would stand between patients and their health care providers with the "efficiencies of FEMA" and the "compassion of the DMV." It looked to me like he was appealing to readers on an emotional level.
I also think back to the fabled "mushroom cloud" and "we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here." In my view, those were scare tactics -- an emotional appeal -- used to build support for the Iraq war, the need for which there was no hard evidence.
If memory serves, the counterarguments dealt more with facts, i.e. there's insufficient evidence, etc. And yes, there was tremendous outrage among the opposition, but they were denounced and discredited by the Bush administration, to use your terms. So, at the very least, the GOP message machine instilled fear in a large number of people and discredited and denounced those who were opposed to the war. Very powerful, and I would say, insidious, tactics.
With respect to your question:
Could the people who would push for such an investigation be experiencing a sort of cognitive overload? There are so many complex issues afoot. If it were the only issue, people probably would be rioting in the streets.
Sometimes when people are overwhelmed, they end up doing nothing.
Sorry if your initial point floated past me. It seems I was submerged in tea.
July 20, 2009 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a nutshell: emotions/thoughts can be manipulated.
July 20, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think the problem with Iraq or Health care arguments is an appeal to emotion. The reference to mushroom clouds was a reference to a risk. It only counts as ginning up FEAR because they lied about the evidence - the presence of a nuclear program and the presence of an Al Qaida link. You can argue about how serious that risk was, and given the evidence at the time I don't think it amounted to something to worry about. It was THE LIES.
The health care talking points are similar though complex. They are stoking worries about gradual expansive socialization of the economy rather than specificities of the plan. And that works, insofar as it does, because they create suspicion that democrats are secretly rabid Marxists. I don't see liberals holding back from ad hominem arguments. Also, comparing the possible outcome to the bits of government that don't work (ironically FEMA which the Republicans have so ably destroyed) is to some extent fair game. Democrats compare its outcome to the bits that do work - like Medicare. If and when the Republicans get back to power, there's a real worry that it can end up looking like FEMA. That's what the Right does - destroy government services so that no one wants more of them.
July 21, 2009 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this, Obey. I can't even be bothered reading anymore when somebody goes off on this whole "let's stick to the reality-based objective facts and think rationally through using reason like logical lil me" shit. Talk about showing yourself to be badly-educated or to have toppled into your Mug O' Sleepy-Time.
As for reason being kept separate from emotion, if you just listen to the central terms and metaphors people use when "arguing rationally," they're heavily dominated by Medieval military images - just listen to them and you can "see" the other guy's Castle being assaulted. The idea that emotion is absent and untainting, when the language itself is of war, is pretty ludicrous.
As for those here who want the game restrained to the ideas they feel are safe and calm and rational, I'm just not sure what Earth they've been walking. I sometimes wonder how people can stand in the United States, which kinda did have a Revolutionary War, and argue that only small, incremental, reforms can work.
And remember. Don't get mad, get even. By high-sticking him in the chops, pounding him senseless, spitting blood and busted teeth on him as he lays there, taking a victory lap in his home rink, invading the stands, and carrying off his fiance.
We call it "The way of peace."
Or "Firewagon Hockey." I always get those two mixed up.
July 20, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! Q, love these comments...
There's the medieval military stuff, sexual innuendo (such a penetrating argument...), and - at least in academia - a reeeeally annoying capital markets metaphor trend... though they aren't trading in derivatives yet as far as I know...
Those most interested in 'pure reason' tend to have issues with purity, meseems.
July 20, 2009 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, your post really pisses me off! Too bad most people seem to be sated with crumbs when they get fed up with things- recall the week or so where there were demonstrations on Wall St. quickly deflated by supposed limitations on CEO salaries. Anyway, thanks Oleeb!
July 20, 2009 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
GODDDAMMMIT YOU ALLLL! IT'S OBEY, O-B-E-Y.
Anyway, thanks Dan, always appreciate your sentiments.
July 20, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't quite agree.
For example, William James sez...
When you see a picture of a bear, you may think "That is a dangerous animal," but unless you are two years old, you probably don't wet your pants.
But defending the James-Lange theory can quickly get weird...
Stanley Schachter and Jerome Singer finally managed to inject a significant cognitive component into the emotional chain by demonstrating that adrenalized test-subjects would not interpret their physical buzz as an emotion, if they knew they had been drugged. Otherwise, they got very "emotional."
This apparently pointless demonstration of "what Rootie learned from Wikipedia" has actually prepared the way for one of those rare instances where a theory may actually explain something, and even more surprisingly, that something is relevant to Obey's diary.
People may have every reason to think, for example, "The bailout is outrageous!" but since our evolutionary mechanism (in layman's terms, our "body") isn't tuned to respond to newspaper headlines with physiological changes, most people don't actually feel rage, and without the force of real emotion, they just go along with whatever happens to be happening.
July 20, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ruta, you never cease to surprise me. Prinz is a really brilliant guy, who's making a career out of resurrecting bizarre theories. I tend to think the cognitive element is a lot stronger than psychologists and neuroscientists tend to give it credit for. If you look real hard for how our emotions deviate from our judgments, you'll find it. But the frequency of such a bifurcation in emotional state and evaluation tends to get overstated IMO (my fear of flying would be one such case, produced suddenly mid-flight a few years ago when my phobic ex-wife grabbed my leg in a panic, immediate gestaltshift...).
As for newspapers and bodily arousal, most titles these days in the FT here in earnings season are producing increased heartrate, blood pressure, gritted teeth and compulsive blogging.
July 20, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
A brilliant guy... for me to poop on!
Read this passage aloud, and when you come to the phrase in boldface, smack your lips with cutesy (but pedantic) self-satisfaction!
For that instant, you will be in exactly the same emotional state as Jesse Prinz.
(But he loves the Ramones!)
July 20, 2009 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Alert: That was a trick comment.
July 20, 2009 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Poop away my friend! I'll grant you 'exciting' doesn't exactly apply to his writing... but the Ramones do make up for a lot (or should I be taking out my poop-hat right about now?).
July 21, 2009 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just wanted you to admit that you own a "poop-hat."
Now my work is done.
July 21, 2009 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oleeb is the evil eye symbol and Obey is the slacker pug dog, but I have confused the two, myself. To think of it, have you EVER seen them post sequentially? I think not.
July 20, 2009 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Molly, I avoid posting when Oleeb's posting for the simple reason that my drivel comes out looking bad...
OT - would prefer 'debonnaire' to 'slacker' there...
July 20, 2009 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I meant "slacker" in the most complimentary of terms. That shiftless pug has it made!
July 20, 2009 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
How 'bout svelt?
July 20, 2009 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
ack!
Thanks, mi amigo pugalito.
July 20, 2009 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Cheeken! This was in good part a tribute to you, btw. You and your pitchfork...
July 20, 2009 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
(shuffles feet) Awww, shucks. I'm beside meself. Thank you, thank you very much!
(hoists pitchfork)
(falls over)
Ack! I seem to loose my balance unless I'm really ticked off. Where is that Larry Summers!?
ACK!!
July 20, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I wish to know is what does Dr. Phil think about all this?
I hereby award you the Dayly Blog of the Day Award for this here TPMCafe site, given to all of you from all of me.
I shall ponder this further and get back to you.
ITS ALL GREEK TO ME
July 20, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks so much Dick! I'm deeply humbled and proud, even though I haven't quite figured out how to reconcile those two emotions yet...
I was going to bring in your man Cicero, btw. Just got too long. He was generally Stoic in outlook, advocating 'apatheia' and all, but he's touchingly sincere in his ambiguity about emotion. In one of his letters to Atticus (12.14)he talks about the grief over his daughter's death:
"Reading and writing do not comfort me. But they do distract me. I try in every way I can to repair my countenance - though not my heart. I think sometimes that I am wrong to do so, at other times that I will be wrong not to."
July 21, 2009 8:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seventy six years ago a man called Pecora conducted a thorough investigation of the financial crimes and mismanagement that led to the Great Depression, skewering bankers in public hearings, laying out their lies and venality, forcing immediate resignations of executives, and issuing a report that raised public outrage to such a pitch that radical reforms of the system were rammed through despite tough resistance from Wall Street. They lasted almost until the end of the century. Why is such an investigation being so conspicuously avoided this time? Well, the anger it might arouse would be so inconvenient. It might get people thinking..."
IF I EVER SAW THIS I WOULD BE SURE I HAD DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN
July 20, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well done! Excellent blog! Kudos! :-)
(I can see I've left this place in really good hands.)
July 20, 2009 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Thera!! It's always so nice when you drop by.
July 21, 2009 8:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
July 20, 2009 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obey,
I am not sure if you have noticed my comments of the last month or two but occasionally I have crossed over to unhinged (for example). I am livid and I do not understand how the populist inertia has been so casually lost, but then how many understand how much money the FED has pumped and what that means.
So I find myself looking to next winter and I am somewhat hopeful that as it becomes clear that jobs are not going to return populist rage will be reignited. (Then again I have lived most of my life deluding myself that justice is on the horizon, it could equally be stoked by the crazy teabaggers). We shall see.
Regardless, thanks for another great post,
July 20, 2009 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
(hands saladin pitchfork)
I just sharpened it.
July 20, 2009 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
good to see you Sal. Yes, I don't know how this ends. Maybe if Obama's health care passes that gives momentum for other progressive moves. If it doesn't pass, there'll be a paralyzed government with an economy tracking the great depression month for month. Scary, outrageous. Depends on where the emotions fix their objects...
July 21, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't say I find the Health Care reforms all that progressive. Until we break the tie between Health Care and Jobs I think we will continue to just bandaid a horribly inefficient system.
Hope I am wrong.
July 21, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post Obey. Naturally I am in agreement. The people of this country should be upset and they should voice their displeasure and they should demand a public investigation of the wrongheadedness that has made this mess.
I think congress and particularly the senate is afraid of an open hearing like this. It would shine a light on too many things that would come into question in a critical examination of the events that got us to where we are. Above all else the senate is going to protect itself. Senators just aren't going to have an investigation that will expose their backsides to the ethical corruption that has occurred.
The general public just isn't tuned in to all of this. I've little doubt some portion of citizens really don't want to know how messed up this has become. They would rather remain ignorant than have to face the reality of the wayward path the government has taken. There is a difference between having a general awareness of this and having to objectively acknowledge the details of the general state of dysfunction of our government. In simpler terms, some people are tolerant of a mess while others recognize that sooner or later it has to be cleaned up.
The most significant problem remains the one of political and ethical corruption that might be exposed. There is an explicit and intuitive understanding of where an investigation may lead. Everybody knows what a difficult task this would be and is all too aware of the political crash and burn that would ensue. The pillars of power would be shaken to their foundation and most probably be rearranged in significant ways. The national will to undertake this may not yet have gotten to the necessary threshold to pursue this. It will eventually.
July 21, 2009 4:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
TPC, you're right. 'Narratives' much like scientific paradigms are 'sticky'. It takes a lot to switch how a population sees the patterns in the rorschach test. The Pecora story is illustrative. He was only brought on board four years into the economic freefall. And he was unknown and untested. He blew the senate hearings out of the water with his sharp questions and awesome investigative digging. I'd like to have seen the look on the senators' faces sitting behind him... ("what kind of monster have we unleashed"). In some ways he comes across as a fluke of history. Not exactly a comforting thought.
July 21, 2009 8:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
It takes a lot for somebody to reveal things in the black and white of their reality as opposed to the convenient shades of grey we use to excuse our own shortcomings. Most everyone in the system grows increasingly incapable of seeing let alone expressing this distinction. Just being human we learn this at a very young age.
July 21, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Frankly, if you're feeling calm, you're not thinking straight! "
Actually I would make the opposite argument.
No one who is "not calm", can possibly be thinking straight.
Thought is the result of perception and is based on ones knowledge, that includes bias,fear, all the emotions,...etc Etc.
Only calmness from release of thought ,can see clearly.
Conflict in any form prevents clear thinking.
While I grant your idea satisfies people, no doubt the truth is exactly opposite.
July 21, 2009 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Jade, not sure what to make of this bit:
"Only calmness from release of thought ,can see clearly. Conflict in any form prevents clear thinking."
Do you think all emotion involves conflict? Why? All negative emotion arguably involves some dissatisfaction with the facts (present past or future). But that isn't 'conflict'.
What I maybe didn't get across was the idea that we get emotional about things because we make a judgment about certain things in the world we are concerned by. The idea that the causal relation is the other way around is a mistake imo.
July 21, 2009 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, of course we make judgments and that's my point.
To answer your question, perhaps the first time we "look", we see clearly because we have no previous impression.
But after that we "see" based on our concepts beliefs ideas.etc, etc.
So that type of seeing, of "judgment", must be conflict since it is not based on what is, but on concepts.
You think I can approach someone without conflict or see them as they really are if I have already formed an opinion about them?
The point is not that people don't see your way cause they do.
The point is that anyone who wishes to see clearly can not be hindered by their concepts.
If you say it can't be done then its over.
I say everyone should try it and see if it makes a difference, emotional or otherwise.
the End!
July 21, 2009 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe where I'd disagree is seeing concepts as a hindrance to representing the world as it is. We can't make any kind of judgment or inference without concepts for a start. But if you say so, I'll try...
;0)
July 21, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is fundamentally about what we perceive as being in our self interest or not. The operative word being perceive. The conflict arises where our perception lead to a different end than we wanted but have no idea why that is.
July 21, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink