"What Israel Means To Me"
This is an extended response to the article entitled "What Israel Means to Me" by Amitai Etzioni reprinted a few days ago. I could not make up my mind to post a long comment and then the article disappeared.
And What This Article Means To Me
It means another apologia for a country that, no matter what, is considered above criticism.
"On July 16, an Israeli aircraft fired on a civilian home in the village of Aitaroun, killing 11 members of the al-Akhrass family, among them seven Canadian-Lebanese dual nationals who were vacationing in the village when the war began. Human Rights Watch independently interviewed three villagers who vigorously denied that the family had any connection to Hezbollah. Among the victims were children aged one, three, five and seven." -- Human Rights Watch Report
When an Israeli child is killed by a Katyusha rocket, it's an offense against nature; when the Israeli airforce blows 60 Lebanese women and children to kingdom come, it's "a regrettable incident." Where is the outrage in Israel, at these senseless deaths and at this horrific suffering? A pathetic few protesters, regarded with contempt by the great mass of the Israeli populace. Words cannot adequately express the extent of my disgust at this moral relativism and at the utter lack of conscience that produced it. I am physically ill just thinking about it.
Historically, the Hebrews wrested Palestine by violence from is original inhabitants. They, in turn, were kicked out by subsequent conquerors. "Israel" existed as a nation -- as an organized political unit -- for a scant few decades more than two millenia ago. By an historically remarkable turn of events, the desires of a few European-hating Jews meshed with the desires of Jew-hating European governments eager to solve their "Jewish Problem" by expatriating their Jewish populations. A violent seizure of land in Palestine was effected. In the 1920s, Ben-Gurion stated flatly that the Jews in Israel would pretend a desire for peace with the Arabs until the the new Jewish State was well-armed and well-established enough to drive them out. Since the first "commandos" landed and started killing inconvenient Arabs, it has been the intention of successive Israeli governments to drive Arabs out of "Eretz Yisrael." Olmert continues that tradition.
"Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hezbollah" -- Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon
"Every village from which a Katyusha is fired must be destroyed" -- Israeli general, quoted in Yedioth Ahronoth
"One who goes to sleep with rockets shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't wake up in the morning" -- Dan Gillerman, Israeli ambassador to the UN
At bottom, the "elephant in the room" is that the Israeli Zionists and their apologists regard Jews as "God's Chosen People" and believe that it absolutely does not matter to God what they do to non-Jews. Lebanese or Palestinian -- killing the innocent non-Jew is a PR problem, devoid of moral implication. Exactly out of this moral void comes the utter failure of the Israeli state. As the above quotations indicate, there is nothing "accidental" about the killing of civilians in southern Lebanon. Women and babies sleeping in an apartment building 300 meters from a Hezbollah rocket launcher will be killed, as a matter of course. Restrictions of that killing are imposed by what Israel calculates it can get away with as a political matter, in the context of the larger world. The Israeli government restrains its prediliction for fullblown, scorched-earth slaughter out of concern for its foreign aid packages. The country wouldn't survive six months if the US closed the money spigot.
I have sympathy for the innocent killed, in the case of Israel vs The Rest of the World, -- the innocent being 12 year-old Palestinian boys shot off the porch by indifferent Israel soldiers, Lebanese babies with their heads ripped off by Israeli bomb shrapnel, or young Israeli children blown to bits while riding on a bus, when a suicide bomber explodes himself. I have no sympathy with retired terrorists, self-styling themselves "commandos" or "freedom fighters," who in their day killed civilians with as much indifference as Hezbollah and the present Israeli government.
Nor do I sympathize with modern Israelis who, from the comfort of their apartments in Tel Aviv, endorse the continuous murder of non-Jewish families as a means of "protecting" Jewish families. To them, I say: You will continue to live in fear until you stop the killing. And that is as it should be. It is God's justice for a stiffnecked people who have turned their backs to God: "for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."





Michael - I am sure you read my response to Amitai's posting. If not, please read the entire thing. The crux of the issue is your quote, as follows:
"At bottom, the "elephant in the room" is that the Israeli Zionists and their apologists regard Jews as "God's Chosen People" and believe that it absolutely does not matter to God what they do to non-Jews. Lebanese or Palestinian -- killing the innocent non-Jew is a PR problem, devoid of moral implication."
Unfortunately, it is very true.
August 3, 2006 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am an American Gentile and I stand with Israel.
Perhaps that makes me an apologist by the soggy standards of this diary, but I do so because it is the right thing to do, not because I have some notion of the Jews as "God's Chosen People."
Israel has a right to exist and that's all they ask. The Muslim world denies that right and has attacked Israel non-stop from the beginning. That's wrong.
August 3, 2006 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
And when has Israel ever acknowledged the right of the Palestinians to self-determination?
August 3, 2006 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
On what basis does Israel have this 'right'?
Is it not wrong that 900K Muslims were made refugees for what you claim is the right of one people to exist over another?
August 3, 2006 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that Israel should exist also. All they have do do is give back the land they are colonizing and stop interfering with the establishment of a Palestinian state.
August 4, 2006 5:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK, why?
I find that most people who are pro-Israel cannot or will not answer that.
More importantly, on the thread this blog is an extended reply to..many posters who are pro-Israel agreed that this stuff should end with the generation that "did the crime" and that subsequent generation should "not have to do time" for that. Flavius, righteously asserted that what happened in a prior generation does not matter and that obligations end with that generation.
What is most interesting about this type of intellectually hypocrisy is that this was adamantly asserted as a principled response to racism in America....yet when that same principle is applied and asked as a question regarding Israel's 'right to exist'....
There is deafening silence as the response.
When asked why persecutions that occurred 50 years ago should be justification for Israel's right to exist...those same pro-Israel posters are SILENT.
There is no such uncertainty when they think it is about black or brown people (Palestinians) or when they think it is about the 50 plus year old American Civil Rights Act...pro-israel posters find that unacceptable and see nothing wrong with calling it 'reverse discrimination'..and why should they have to pay for what generations prior to them did since it was not 'their fault'..they feel no obligation to right those wrongs.
Posters gave all these high 4 ratings to that reasoning when it is about blacks and racism in America but showhow it falls short when they need to apply it to Israel.
What hypocrisy.
It begs the question of why do the present generations in America still have 'obligations' to Israel? Should not those have ended with WWII?
August 4, 2006 7:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
whiterosebuddy - You ask an important and critical question - why should Israel exist. All I can do is give my personal opinion - one I cannot necessarily justify in an intellectually cogent philosphy of the world since the beginning of humankind.
As a Jew, the stories of the holocaust and persecution are very real to me. I have known many holocaust survivors and the trauma of that experience has traumatized me to my core, even across generations. The persecution and descrimination of Jews across Europe extended for many hundreds of years. These stories have been handed down parent to child all these generations until they meld into the Jewish soul.
The yearning for Israel and a Jewish homeland started hundreds of years before the Zionist movement became fashionable in the late 1800's. Our traditions and faith all are based in Israel.
All these factors came to a head after WWII and the world, partially because of guilt, decided to finally act on Jewish desires and also Jewish refugees. You have to ask yourself, if you were a Jew in Europe after the Nazis, could you go back to your town or village in Germany, Poland, Austria etc and live next to neighbors who not only persecuted you but wanted you killed? My own grandfather in France had his store burned down twice before the Nazis came and the people in his town would not let him reopen after 1942. Do you honestly think he could go back and face those people?
So, it was a matter of a homeland for these people. Israel was the obvious choice. However, the Brits and the U.N did a horiible job paving the way and nuturing the process. It was hubris of the big powers who basically said to the arabs - like it or lump it - no negotiation. In fact, Like Iraq and elsewhere they did a horrible job with the lines of demarcation. Some of the most sensitive land for Jews was left in Arab hands (Judea and Samaria)and the Western Wall while Nazareth etc was left to Israel.
The long and the short of it is - the Jews needed a home - Israel seemed like the best bet. However, not only did the UN screw up the beginning but the arabs screwed everything up for the next 20 years and the Israelis' have screwed up the last 20 years with their expansionist activities.
August 4, 2006 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand and view this as an honest resonse. The problem however is that people are dying for Israel's 'right to exist'
After over 100 years of chattel slavery in America followed by another 100 years of Jim Crow segregation laws...blacks still live in the South and there are in fact, proportionately more blacks in Southern states than any other region of the country. Blacks live next to neighbors whose families may have lynched, raped and tortured blacks and Jews as part of the Confederacy or KKK. Lots of Jews still live in the south as well.
I do not understand why Jews desire to live in Israel when they can live in peace and prosperity in America. It would be far safer and way more peaceful more to live next door to KKK members in the South for Jews than to be surrounded by muslims who hate and terrorize them in Israel.
No. America is the obvious choice, for obvious reasons and all this ME conflict would end.
It appears that it was also the most sensitive land for Muslims with their holiest mosques. Over 600K Palestinians were made refugees for what is clearly not morally defensible in any way.
Jews, have a home in America, they are safe and welcome in America. Their families have been secure and prospered in America. More Jews live in America than in Israel.
Israel was not ever a best bet as the Arabs vehemently opposed the 1948 resolution and have continued for the past 6 decades to dismantle what was clearly an unwise decision in terms of peace in the ME.
How is supporting Israel in the best interest of America?
Yes...it takes two to tango. Israeli's need to come home to America....perhaps, America can desginate NY as a 'jewish only' state.
August 4, 2006 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
How nice for you and your delicate moral feelings, but what exactly is Israel supposed to do while millions of Muslims, including heads of states like Iran, clamor for the removal of Israel and have worked non-stop--often using the militaries of entire Muslim nations or multiple terrorist gangs like Hamas or Hezbollah--against Israel for almost sixty years now.
Israel left Lebanon and Gaza and their sincere hope was that the Muslims in those areas would live in peaceful coexistence. Instead, those Muslims built fortifications, launched rockets at Israel's civilians, and tunneled into Israel to kill and kidnap its soldiers.
And whether you believe it or not, Israelis genuinely do regret the Lebanese civilians who are kiled in this conflict. They try not to but it happens as it happens in all wars. Contrast that with the Muslims who openly rejoice over civilian deaths. Then tell me more about moral relativism.
What exactly is Israel supposed to do? Sing "Where have all the flowers gone?" while its citizens are gradually being killed by rockets that will increase in range and lethality over time?
August 3, 2006 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"ISRAELIS GENUINLEY DO REGRET THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS WHO ARE KILLED IN THIS CONFLICT"
LOL..........Maybe you could convince people of this if the percentage of innocent civilians and Hezballah deaths were a little more equivalent. LESS THAN 10% OF THE DEATHS ARE THAT OF HEZBALLAH.
OH, I'M SORRY BREAKING NEWS.8:43 PM 12 CONSECUTIVE BOMBSWERE DROPPED IN BERUIT. NOT A PREVIOUSLY WARNED AREA!!! NOT A HEZBALLAH STRONGHOLD!!!( WE GENUINLEY REGRET IF WE KILLED ANY INNOCENT) I CALL BULLSHIT.
I HOPE THAT THEY PUSH ISRAELI GOV'T INTO THE WATER. HEARTLESS BASTARDS. THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE. THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE. THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL LEBANESE DEATHS AND THE DEATHS OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND OUR PRESIDENT STANDS BY THEM.
I LOVE MEL GIBSON.
STOP REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN 2008!!!!!!
AMERICA CAN'T TAKE IT AGAIN.
August 3, 2006 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cindi - I understand your anger but this response is way over the top and totally inappropriate. If you have read my comments you will know that I believe Israel deserves considerable criticsm but your comments border on anti-semitism. Please retract and apologize.
August 4, 2006 7:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
AS IF. and if I hear one more time about "God's chosen people" I think I'm gonna vomit. What kind of God would say that one person is above another(chosen) and does not have to follow the commandments. It is only a sin to harm another of the "chosen"? What kind of crap is that? That is no better than the radical Islamist that all consider terrorist. My God promotes love, peace, understanding, and tollerance between ALL PEOPLE. We are All god's children, not just the Jews.
My comments do not border on anti-semitism. I do not hate any one people. My comment was for the Israeli government, not the entire Jewish people. And therefore, I will not apologize for my comment, nor retract.
August 4, 2006 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll have to say that this phrase is often misinterpreted. In the theological history, it's more a sense of the people God chose to follow laws most stringently, and even to suffer.
Anyone using it in a sense of superiority is using it incorrectly.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 4, 2006 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
To your above comment about needing a book: are you a non-believer?
As for this comment: I wonder if you could speak up so the Jews can hear you?
August 4, 2006 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I understand your ire. I have often reflected on the use of the word 'chosen' to infer a 'specialness' and after reading how it is spoken of in the bible. I decided that chosen was more like a scientific experiment..meaning they were the group selected to undergo God's test. God set out to see if he could instill his tenets and commandments in one group of ppl and the entire experiment of 40 years in the wilderness ended as a failure.
The book of Hebrews is the impt New Testament elaboration upon the issues that came to a head in the Jerusalem Council deliberations. i.e. did the church have its own covenant with God? What was the churchs relationship to the covenants God previously had with Israel? etc..
In the old testament people had to earn God's grace...which is what the entire 40 years in the wilderness was and God saw that it was an unsustainable covenant and so he established a new covenant with man...where Jesus Christ dies for us to have God's eternal grace...all we have to do to be saved is have a relationship with JC. The death of JC absolved all man from their sins as long as we believe in JC we have God's eternal grace.
All you have to do to receive God's grace is have faith. Faith is the means by which you receive his grace. Faith alone, is sufficient for God's grace. That is the entire point of the new Testament..it lays out a new covenant vs. the old covenant Israel had with God.(Chapter 3 of Hebrews verses 15-19 states what Israel did to break fellowship with God.)
If we believe, Jesus bore our sins on the cross and we repent we are granted God's grace and through his grace- salvation. It is a personal relationship with God, with no religious tenets and restrictions to adhere to. All you need is faith.
So the entire concept of 'chosen' really means that it was an experiment and an experiment which failed as Israel did not keep the covenant with God.
God therefore established a new covenant with man.
August 4, 2006 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
While I consider the response beyond normal discussion, how does it begin to border on antisemitism? I don't see mention of Jews. I see mention of the nation of Israel and its policies.
Both sides have probably committed war crimes, or, if you will, one side, not being a nation-state, committed something really not covered by international law, but close to the doctrine of hostis humani generis. This doctrine deals with threats to international order, as does piracy. Unfortunately, international law has not kept pace with the reality of non-national armed actors. As a practical matter, the Lebanese military has no chance of controlling Hezbollah.
Israeli censorship certainly interferes with independent review of what they are doing, to the detriment of the government of Israel. I would put more credence in a set of technically verifiable bomb damage assessment images, although those also might show that Israel is using disproportionate force. There simply is no good data.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 4, 2006 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
It always makws me happy when I see that someone else gets it. I see on the news today, when Nasrallah threatens to bomb Tel-Aviv, Israel responds that if Tel-Aviv is bombed that they will target the entire Lebanese infrastructure. Is anyone safe in Lebanon? According to most Israeli's and American's it will be okay because they will drop leaflets of warning. They have publicly threatened to destroy the entire country, not Hezballah. What about the oil spill that was caused by an Israeli bomb? That's gonna affect alot more than just Lebanon. I wonder, does anyone care? Will anyone do any thing? Who will stop this? Will it be in time? Will there be anything left? Anyone? Peace be with you and God bless.
August 3, 2006 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cindy, May God forgive you for all the hate you carry in your heart for his chosen people.
Mel Gibson was drunk and out of his rabbitt ass mind when he said what he said about jewish people. He appoligized. He is a God fearing man, unfortunately we sometimes forget who we are and we stumble and we learn a very big lesson. There is no excuse for what he said but he did say it and he did appoligized at least acouple of times.
I love Mel also he is a good Christian and God has blessed him immensely.
August 4, 2006 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mel Gibson was not drunk. He was over the limit for driving. He blew a 0.12 which is nothing more than 3-4 beers or 2-3 glasses of wine that is NOT drunk.
Just because someone is over the limit for driving does not mean they are DRUNK folks should stop calling it drunk driving since it seldom is today, with the limit being 0.08...people are over that limit with 2 friggin glasses of wine or one jumbo margarita but they are a long way from being drunk. Their speech is not slurred nor is their balance impaired. But the law says they are over the limit to drive...and over the limit to drive is not even intoxicated let alone drunk.
August 4, 2006 8:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I become very nervous about deities that want to be feared, yet don't directly communicate. Forgive me if I question why an omnipotent being needs the intermediary of a book
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 4, 2006 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Chosen people", my a**.
He apologized for saying it, not believing it. He apologized to appease the situation and keep his price up, not because he was sorry for his opinion. I'm sure that he did learn a big lesson: alcohol makes ones' lips loose, Think before you speak.
God immensley blesses murdering, drug using, rappers and actors and musicians.Mmmmmmmmmm........Is that because they are "good christians"?
August 4, 2006 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll have to say that the phrase "chosen people" is often misinterpreted. In the theological history, it's more a sense of the people God chose to follow laws most stringently, and even to suffer.
Anyone using it in a sense of superiority is using it incorrectly. You can get a perspective, not limited to Jewish culture, of the 36 just men, humble people whose acceptance of suffering keeps the world from being destroyed. This concept appears in Arabic and Persian Muslim writings.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 4, 2006 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you hgwells vey well said.
August 4, 2006 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cindi, Read God's Word It Will Tell You What Is Going To Happen..
August 4, 2006 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink