Language talk
So... what language(s) do you speak? (Swear I'm not trying to pick you up. Well okay, maybe *you*, but not the other people...)
If your mother tongue was English, what kind of English was it? If you grew up in the US, maybe it was:
Cultural
African-American Vernacular English (AAVE)
Appalachian English
General American
Hawaiian Pidgin English
Chicano English
Native American English (Amerindian English) (see also subtypes below)
Pennsylvania Dutchified English
YinglishRegional
Northeastern dialects
Baltimorese
Boston English
Northeast Pennsylvania English (Scranton, Pennsylvania-area)
Hudson Valley English (Albany, New York-area)
Maine-New Hampshire English
Philadelphia-area English
Pittsburgh English
Providence-area English
New York-New Jersey English
Nuyorican English
Vermont EnglishMid-Atlantic dialects
Tidewater accent
Virginia Piedmont
Virginia TidewaterMidwest
Inland North American (Lower peninsula of Michigan, northern Ohio and Indiana, Chicago, part of eastern Wisconsin and upstate New York)
North Central American English (includes Minnesota, North Dakota and some of South Dakota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa)
Yooper dialect (the variety of North Central American English spoken in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and in some neighboring areas)
North Midlands English (thin swath from Nebraska to Ohio)
St. Louis-area English
Wisconsin-Illinois dialectSouthern English
Appalachian English
Coastal Southeastern (Charleston, South Carolina, Savannah, Georgia area)
Cajun English
Harkers Island English (North Carolina)
Southern Highland English
South Midlands English (thin swath from Oklahoma to Pennsylvania)
Tampanian English
Texan
Yat (New Orleans)Western English
California English
Boontling
Hawaiian English (Hawaiian Pidgin)
Utah English
Pacific Northwest English
Or something not on Wikipedia's list?
Do you speak more than one variety of English? Speak other languages? Mebbe you do a little code-switching, where you combine different languages and/or varieties of English?
Does the way you talk come through in how you write here? Or is it completely different?
What languages would you like to learn?
Any random linguistic observations you feel like making?





Quick poll:
Is it "sneakers" or "tennis shoes"? "soda" or "pop"? "highway" or "freeway"?
What do you call a house that is on the opposite corner from your own? How about the circular roads that, in some places, replace traffic lights? And how do you refer to the interstate: is it "I-80" or "the 5"?
June 29, 2007 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, here goes:
1. Tennis shoes
2. Neither. Coke
3. Highway
4. The house across the street (?)
5. Pains in the ass
6. I-95
Origins:
Born and raised in West Palm Beach, Fl , but people always and without fail, think my accent is from New York.
I don't get the significance of numbers 4 and 5, but the post and the poll are fun!
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 29, 2007 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
To answer for myself:
1. tennis shoes
2. soda
3. freeway
4. kiddy corner
5. roundabout or traffic circle or a "whirly guy" -- depends on the company
6. I-80
These poll questions come from variations that I've heard (and debated). I grew up in Salt Lake City, went to college in California, and am now in Massachusetts. I think I speak with a pretty standard/generic American accent, though there's probably a smattering of Canadian and Swedish influences thrown in, courtesy of my grandparents.
My mom adopted "soda" instead of "pop" when I was little and we were living in Maryland, so it's been that way ever since. ;) I've been called on saying "cos-tyume," but that's the main thing I can think of.
June 29, 2007 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
same as you, but where I grew up (OR), 'catty-corner' was more common, and the only reason I said soda not pop is that my folks were from back east.
June 29, 2007 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That brings up another interesting one? Where is OHIO?
aMike
June 30, 2007 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, I was a bit dense there. #4 would be catty-corner and while I'll use my original answer when encountering one, #5 would be traffic circle.
But when I was growing up, Coke was used much as aspirin is today - a generic for soda. Friends from the Mid West say 'pop', and this is the first I've heard that it was said in upper NY.
I assume my NY accent comes from the seasonal and permanent migration of New Yorkers to So. Fl.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 29, 2007 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
But when I was growing up, Coke was used much as aspirin is today - a generic for soda.
A Southern thing, I guess?
June 29, 2007 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes! Likely influenced by the dominance of Coca-Cola in the Deep South, a carbonated beverage in general is referred to as coke, or cocola, even if referring to non-colas. Soda is sometimes used.
And here are visual maps that delineate who says what and where.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 30, 2007 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
1. sneakers
2. grew up with pop in upstate/western NY, but in NYC and the SF Bay Area I usually say soda
3. highway
4. "that house over there"
5. traffic circle
6. the 5
June 29, 2007 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
tennis shoes
Coke (sometimes, when feeling a bit nostalgic, a Nehi bellywasher)
depends on if it's a highway or a freeway
the house catty corner 'cross the street
who's lame idea was this, followed by a string of expletives; formally, a traffic circle
I-40
Glenn Simmons (aka ges)
You can't perfume a hog.Lewis Grizzard
June 29, 2007 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to add one more item to the list:
Is it a "paper sack" or a "paper bag"
My first duty station station in the Navy was Portsmouth Naval Hospital in Virginia. We put prescription bottles in brown paper receptacles. I asked someone to hand me a sack, and everyone on the filling line looked at me with this collective look of "Huh?" I said, "OK, hand me a bag."
Glenn Simmons (aka ges)
You can't perfume a hog.Lewis Grizzard
June 29, 2007 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. 'Sack' vs. 'Bag' finds sack in the minority.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 30, 2007 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least I'm in a blue state on that one :-)
Glenn Simmons (aka ges)
You can't perfume a hog.Lewis Grizzard
June 30, 2007 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sneakers
Soda
Highway
Catty corner?
[edit] Jug-handles ...didn't read the question right...circle.
Neither, it's "route 80"
You didn't ask, but it's a sub. Not a hoagie.
:-)
"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani
June 29, 2007 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope... Its a grinder (pronounced Grineduh) in Rhode Island, and you wash it down with a drink from the bubbler (bubbluh). Warning, there's sound with the website behind the link, but the song is appropriate and it doesn't endlessly recycle.
aMike
June 29, 2007 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The official word (pun intended) and map from Harvard:
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 30, 2007 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
aMike
June 29, 2007 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
So my home language would be Inland North American, using Wikipedia's categories, although Viviane's question reminds me that I think Wikipedia gets a couple of the vocabulary items wrong. Everybody I know in Western NY who's under the age of, say, 40, says "sneakers" rather than "tennis shoes." And people use both "drinking fountain" and "water fountain."
But the rest sounds right to me. The vowel shift thing is not so pronounced in my everyday speech, having lived away from my hometown for so long, but when I talk to members of my family it comes out a lot more.
There's an interesting note at the bottom of the page where it mentions that Hillary Clinton has that vowel shift thing goin' on. Hmm... has it helped her in the region? It took a lot of work on her part to make inroads, but the accent probably does help. Chuck Schumer probably sounds like an elitist city guy to many upstate ears.
June 29, 2007 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is a A Dialect Map of American English.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 29, 2007 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe the proper terminology for my dialect is:
"Yo, Fucking-A New York-New Jersey English"
The language I would like to learn is Italian. I know lots of the food stuff (but you only have to watch Sopranos to get that!), and before the times I've gone there on vacation, I've revved up, and did pretty well with the basics. But it fades so quickly...
But I think as long as you know "vino," and "due macchiati," that's all you really need. And, actually, unless you're far off the path, Italians speak English pretty damn well.
In fact, my linguistic observation? We're the only country I've found that actually takes pride in its ignorance of other languages. Go to Europe, and people you meet routinely speak 3 or 4 languages.
Here, half the country is pissed off because the phone says, "Para Espanol, numero dos."
June 29, 2007 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Yo, Fucking-A New York-New Jersey English"
Do you think your speech style has anything in common with this description? I thought this part of it was interesting:
It does seem to me that there's a New York style of talking where you inject phrases to show that you're listening. And I think most New Yorkers understand that style of talk, even if they don't practice it themselves, so they don't feel turned off by it.
The language I would like to learn is Italian. I know lots of the food stuff (but you only have to watch Sopranos to get that!), and before the times I've gone there on vacation, I've revved up, and did pretty well with the basics. But it fades so quickly...
Non ero mai stata in Italia, ma parlo un po'. Maybe next summer...
June 30, 2007 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
A study was done in the 1970s...I have it in my notes somewhere, but the tenor of it was this.
The difference was enough to make it difficult for Iowans and Jerseyites to conduct conversations. The folks from New Jersey always wanted to finish the sentences of the Iowans, and by the time the Iowans had decoded the first half of the New Jerseyites's sentences, the New Jerseyite has moved well into the next paragraph.
In the early days of Television network news reporters were trained in something called Midwestern Standard English, which sounded like nothing anyone in particular spoke, but close enough so that everyone could more or less identify with it.
aMike
June 30, 2007 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you think your speech style has anything in common with this description?
Yeah. Plus we curse a lot.
Fascinating article, and I can definitely identify with it. Especially this:
New Yorkers are always ones to offer up an opinion, whether it's asked for or not. It really is a friendly gesture, and I see it all the time at my local B&N (and by local, I mean the B&N that's one block away, not the one that's three blocks away). :-)
And, yes, I'll admit, I have done it myself...
July 3, 2007 6:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
We're the only country I've found that actually takes pride in its ignorance of other languages. Go to Europe, and people you meet routinely speak 3 or 4 languages.
Although on the flip side, the US is incredibly diverse linguistically 'cause of immigration, with significant speech communities for languages from all over the world. These days Europe has lots of immigrants too, but it's a more recent development. With all the historical waves of immigrants from different places to the US, it may have made more sense to focus on one common language. Europeans may have cultivated knowledge of a few languages (all of 'em Indo-European, it's worth noting) because the significant language communities you were surrounded by remained static for generations.
And a cool thing about the US: no official language. And about English in general: no official language standardization academy-type stuff.Although apparently if you really want linguistic diversity, you should go to Papua New Guinea.
June 30, 2007 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another thing is that these days English is a world language... For people who already speak English as a first language, well, you already speak the language that exerts the most economic power and has the most cultural influence, so you don't have the impetus to learn the big "power language" that other folks do.
It will be interesting to see what happens here when the power language changes. Linguists observe that the influence of a power language tends to persist long after the nation that made it a power language in the first place has ceased to be "number one," so it could be a while -- but then again, it seems to be CW these days that cultural change is accelerating...
June 30, 2007 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm, but English may be an anomaly to that as you have the powerful empire of England spreading it allover over hundreds of years, through to the industrial revolution, and then the U.S.A. taking over, spreading it with the age of global travel and communication, a cultural empire so to speak.
I suppose it's possible but it's difficult for me to foresee a time when another language can overcome the fact of everything that's been published in English since Gutenberg through the internet. There are a heck of a lot of native speakers in Spanish compared to English, and they haven't overcome this factor. To be clear, a generalization: to become equally powerful, you have to be able to read the English that came before you, it doesn't matter if most of the U.S.A. is decimated by a nuclear bomb tomorrow. The only thing I can see changing this is good translation software! Will that ever happen, or can only humans do properly?
June 30, 2007 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it doesn't seem that likely to me, either, not in my lifetime anyway. If China or Japan or India become superpowers, I expect it will have some kind of linguistic effect...
But so many people are learning/speaking English there now. Which okay, generally, if you're gonna be the next power language you gotta have at least an elite that speaks the current one, and your language will absorb a lot of vocabulary + some features of the old one, but yours wins over time...
But English just seems *so* widespread at this point, I guess the "rapid pace of change" thing can cut both ways (especially with technological changes like the internet as you mentioned... but oh, then again, if there were good translation software...) I suppose that technological stuff has made it possible for English to saturate the globe much more thoroughly than other power languages have in the past?
Actually y'know what I could see is mebbe a different flavor of English becoming dominant, and slowly changing+ acquiring prestige until it were considered its own language.June 30, 2007 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only thing I can see changing this is good translation software! Will that ever happen, or can only humans do properly?
Oh, interesting question.
My guess would be that computational linguistics will eventually produce a major leap forward in translation software, but that human translators will always be necessary.
Or another thing I imagine is... if translation software ever became halfway useful, that people would slowly adapt their languages to the software, or like, develop a particular dialect/register of their own languages to accommodate the dumbness of translation software.
Wouldn't that be freaky?
June 30, 2007 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
This maybe isn't quite the same, but it's close. Voice recognition software on the telephone. Now when I'm dealing with the bank or with whatever, I'm asked to say numbers or phrases like "I don't know" and if I don't pronounce "I don't know" to the computer's satisfaction it politely tells me "I didn't get that, can you say it again?" I sometimes feel like a linguistic Pavlov's dog, and the computer is teaching me to phonate to its own liking.
aMike
June 30, 2007 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I sometimes feel like a linguistic Pavlov's dog, and the computer is teaching me to phonate to its own liking.
Yeah, me too.
And I think of what it's like to try to express something in a language that I don't really know, using a dictionary and/or lame translation software. I'll probably first try to formulate a sentence in English that uses a minimum of colloquialisms, and with very specific vocabulary -- no use of the verb "get," for example, because it can mean too many things in English. And I'll use a simple sentence structure -- your basic subject-verb-object, 'cause translation software is gonna tend to interpret English sentences as being formed that way, or if I'm using a dictionary, it'll be easier for me to figure out how to transform my sentence into the target language's basic word order if I start from my own language's basic word order.
Right now translation software is so lame that it's not usually worth a speaker's effort to use it in the first place, although it can be helpful to a human translator, as a first pass. But if software got better, I can imagine people learning to adapt their language to it.
Actually I think I'd feel better about that kind of adaptation, if I could do it in writing, than I do about trying to pronounce stuff to the software's specifications. I don't know why that's so irritating, but damn, it just is...
July 3, 2007 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Nascardaughter,
Economic power was no doubt the most significant reason that it was English that got established as a world language but the real reason there is a world language is that people want one. The reason Europeans commonly know several languages is that they want to communicate. They like that there is a world language and I havent seen any sign that it bothers them that that language is English
My guess is that English is so well established as the world language that it will become even more dominant in the future. The need for and the benefits of having a world language are greater than ever and English is already established.
Traveling in Central America for a while, I was often in a group from five or six different countries and often everyone there could speak English. That was my great fortune.
I wonder how much the broadcasts by Radio Free America done in English in a way designed to make them as easy to understand as possible and with consistent vocabulary helped spread the word, so to speak.
July 1, 2007 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason Europeans commonly know several languages is that they want to communicate.
I dunno, maybe I'm cynical, but so much of who-speaks-what, in the aggregate, seems to come down to power. Europe sure has a lot of language suppression to account for... as do pretty much all of the first world nations, I guess (actually probably second world nations too). There's a reason why the Gaelic languages are on the brink of extinction, and the languages of European colonizers are spoken all over the globe.
Although... nowadays the EU has a "commissioner for multilingualism":
But then again:
July 3, 2007 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that English became, to the extent that it is, the world language as a result of the power of the countries that spoke English. Englands colonial empire planted the seed all over the world and Americas twentieth century made English valuable to people everywhere.
Those reasons are still in an effect, but with a bit of a twist. Simply because of its dominance English is the language for anyone of any country to choose as their second language if their primary purpose is to be able to speak to someone [not everyone, of coarse] in virtually any country in the world. That would apply to someone who had no financial interest and who never intended to visit England or the U.S.
It is interesting that in a comment somewhere else you described how you would talk to a translation program. You would construct your sentences much like Radio Free America did in its foreign broadcasts.
Another thing I noticed when around foreigners, in a place where I was also a foreigner, is that it was not just pragmatic to use English, it seemed to be the accepted etiquette.
One more anecdote about power pushing language: While in Prague I met a man who managed a number of rental properties. He told me with an ironic smile that he had spent so much time and effort learning Russian and now it was pointless, he had to start over learning English. It seemed the whole world was now coming to Praha and even the Russians spoke English.
July 3, 2007 8:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
significant language communities
Or maybe "power language communities"? It's not like everybody was rushing to learn Gaelic...
Eh, I dunno if that makes sense either though...
June 30, 2007 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually speak three other languages besides Minnesotan and Rhode Islander.
There's one more English I'm tempted to use, given the profession which I practice; but I mostly avoid using it.
aMike
June 29, 2007 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
pretendyou'retwogenerationsyoungerspeak.
Whatever. :-] That is a little throwaway dismissal word that my kids would use that could drive me to speaking in tongues. I just made myself mad at myself for using it.
July 3, 2007 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
One more for the quiz. Is it Vienna Sausage or Vi-eena Sausage?. [And, have you ever actually bought a second can of them?]
June 29, 2007 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's Vi-anny (long a) sausage, at least that's what my grandmother said, and no fishing trip is complete without a can or two and some saltine crackers :-)
Glenn Simmons (aka ges)
You can't perfume a hog.Lewis Grizzard
June 29, 2007 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
My parents claim that in Milwaukee when they were growing up, it was common to hear English spoken with German grammar - I have no idea if this is true or not, because they got the hell out when I was 1.
I speak Japanese (though with no reason to use it much anymore, it's starting to go), and it affects my writing in English in at least one way: I think I am more prone to using ellipses than I think is really proper. This might be because it is common in spoken Japanese (and more common in my spoken Japanese) to end a declarative sentence with 'but.'
June 29, 2007 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm thinking it was Doris Day, but I may be wrong... there was a pretty sloppy sentimental song on the hit parade what, 50 years ago?
Throw momma from the train a kiss. . .
Which is not to be confused with Throw Yo Yo Ma from the Train. . .(scroll down)
aMike
June 29, 2007 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Must have been a big hit with those who know to travel to Sheboygan for their bratwurst. The example my parents always used was "I walked my dog the block around."
June 29, 2007 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhh, this nicely explains some of my grandparent's tortured sentences.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H.L. Mencken
June 30, 2007 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Milwaukee Deutsch/Dutch?
Or this guy says:
Or there's this description of "Yooper"
June 30, 2007 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is very true, and it is still there, it is the basis of much of the local "dialect" known affectionately as "Milwaukee-ese." Most often cited examples: "make out the light" and "where the corner turns the bend."
With a quick google, there are some more good examples at the top here
In the link examples, it shows that it's mostly the sentence structure problem, which doesn't copy German exactly, rather it's like a German trying to figure out what order to put the English words in, and getting it wrong. People jumble the order of words and the content comes out as a malapropism. For some reason, it continued as a valid way of speaking, a little bit of a dialect, with people lapsing into it with family and friends even though they know the proper way to do it. Possibly because there were so many German immigrants there at one time that no disapproval was expressed to those talking that way?
In any case, this is something that southern Wisconsin people are proud of, they think it's funny but they are not embarassed by it. Whenever a newspaper columnist or some such there is having a spot of writer's block, he can throw in something on Milwaukee-ese and you can be sure it will be clipped by Milwaukee moms and sent all over the country to ex-pats.
What interests me about some of it as someone experienced with both cultures that there is also a bit of overlap in Milwaukee-ese with Brooklynese of the Yogi Berra or "Dead End Kids" type (which follows through to tough guy/Cagney gangster talk,), there is a lot in common, such as using the d for the th, "dees" for these, "der" for there, and things like "youse guys." I suspect that that's because you had Yiddish influencing that in Brooklynese and German doing the same in Milwaukee? But the mixed-up sentence structure seems to be Milwaukee's own.
June 30, 2007 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Talking about computational linguistics above reminds me that I came across this blog the other day that I thought you might like, Devon, and maybe other folks here. It's got all this linguistics + philosophy of mind + ethics + evolution stuff.
I almost put an ellipsis on the end of that last sentence, but restrained myself. Maybe I spoke Japanese in a past life :-)
June 30, 2007 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the highway vs. freeway thing....
As a boomer with "greatest generation" parents who still remembers when parts of the Interstate were being built, and the grown-ups talking about it,
it is my impression that "freeway" was the term coined for the Interstate, the multi-lane fancy new thingies being built by the Feds,
and "highway" was used for the state highway systems that most everyone used until the Interstate, mostly of the two-lane blacktop variety.
While obviously the intial coining of "freeway" was because it was a fancy new kind of multi-lane highway that was not a toll road like in the East or around Chicago, but free-of-charge to users, I think some who used the term in the sense that one is free of intersections; you can travel freely without having to stop at an intersection!
I know several women of "greatest generation" age who learned to drive as adults but before there was much Interstate around. They clearly mean Interstate when they say "freeway" because they will not drive on one. It still frightens them to have another or two or three lanes of speeding traffic next to them as they are driving, especially trucks. They feel safer at fast speeds with everyone moving in a single line.
June 30, 2007 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
My parents are boomers and my grandparents the generation that saw interstates built, but that's exactly how I use the distinction.
June 30, 2007 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink