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You Own Your Own Words?


In thinking about what happened to Kathy Sierra, there are two issues that I keep coming back to -- one of them is about misogyny online, which Jessica Valenti addresses in both her post here and in her Guardian article. The other issue has to do with how we think about participation in online forums, and to what degree, if any, the owners of forums should be accountable for what participants say.

Chris Locke, who "owned" two blogs that contained death threats against Sierra (including images of her next to a dangling noose, and of her being suffocated with lingerie), defended his policy of not removing anything from his sites with the "YOYOW" (You Own Your Own Words) principle. Eventually, he deleted both sites in their entirety, believing that this was preferable to censoring individual images and comments.

To me, refusing to delete explicit, highly personal death threats because one holds to a Solemn Geek Principle With An Acronym And Everything (SGPWAAAE) seems, at best, rather silly. But it does illuminate the contradictions inherent in notions of how, or even whether, online communities should be managed.

Partly in response to what happened to Sierra, there's been a new round of blogger codes of conduct drafted recently, but even the concept of such a code has been met with derision from the blogosphere, much less actual, draft codes with lines like:

We take responsibility for our own words and for the comments we allow on our blog.

We take responsibility for the comments we allow on our blog? Would it even be possible for Josh Marshall to take responsibility for all the comments on this blog, even if he wanted to?

The "I take responsibility for everything here" approach imagines blog owners as something like publishers, accountable for everything that goes into the book/blog. But blog commentary doesn't work the way traditional paper-based publication works.

Blog comments often exist as part of a direct conversation with other users. There's little in the way of proofreading, copyediting, review, etc. -- certainly not by an editor, and often not by the writer either. In a sense, blog commenters are publishing themselves, albeit inside someone else's blog space. The kind of gatekeeping practiced in traditional paper-based publishing would destroy the interactive, equal access nature of blog communities.

So if you're publishing yourself on someone else's blog, then YOYOW, right? As Chris Locke says:

I will not take responsibility for what someone else said, nor will I censor what another individual wrote.

Sounds good, but... even when someone's posting graphic (not to mention illegal) death threats against an individual? Even when the person posting death threats has owner privileges on your blog? Even when your blog is relatively small, and the images aren't exactly hard to find?

The "I take no responsibility for anything here" approach is more of a speech paradigm, where everybody's just sitting around talking, and there's no way for you to be accountable for, or really do much about, something someone else says. But blog commentary doesn't work the way speech works, either.

For one thing, blog comments, while they may be created off the cuff, are not ephemeral in the same way that speech is. Blog comments, and images, persist until they are deleted. They turn up on Google. They communicate their message over and over again, to anyone who happens to be within message range (including the message "This could happen to you, too").

Most of us grasp this intuitively when we think about a blog owner refusing to delete death threats from a blog. It's one thing to hear someone threaten someone else -- you might respond to it with more speech, you might take some kind of action as a result, but the threatening remark itself vanishes the instant it is spoken. It's another thing to know that there are images on your blog of an individual as the victim of various murder fantasies, and just leave the images there.

Maybe blog owners do have some responsibility for user-created content on their blogs. If Chris Locke's assertion that his choice was between leaving death threats up and deleting the whole site seems ridiculous, maybe it's because we sense that blog owners have some kind of contingent responsibility for content -- at least editorial privilege.

So whaddaya think, is there a way of dealing with the language of online communities that exists somewhere between the speech model and the publication model? What should the social expectations be of a blogger? What about legal responsibilities?


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On the legal side, just came across this Legal Guide for Bloggers from the EFF. Especially relevant is the bit on "Section 230":

No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

On whether bloggers can be considered "providers" or "users", EFF sez:

Bloggers can be both a provider and a user of interactive computer services. Bloggers are users when they create and edit blogs through a service provider, and they are providers to the extent that they allow third parties to add comments or other material to their blogs.

The back story on Section 230 is also kinda interesting:

Section 230 refers to Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230). It was passed as part of the much-maligned Communication Decency Act of 1996. Many aspects of the CDA were unconstitutional restrictions of freedom of speech (and, with EFF'S help, struck down by the Supreme Court), but this section survived and has been a valuable defense for Internet intermediaries ever since.

Sometimes the system works...


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Thank you, nascardaughter, for an insightful post and at least one giggle (SGPWAAAE).  With the reminder that comments here are not ephemeral, I feel like I need to do more thinking.  But I tend to think through writing, so here goes.

For public physical spaces, we have laws dealing with "disturbing the peace" and "drunk and disorderly."  I think that something similar applies (or should) to blogs.  My rights do not take precedence over the rights of other people.  In these situations, a commentator's right to free speech ends as soon as it infringes on another person's right to protect himself from harm.

Another analogy.  A proprietor of a pub isn't responsible for everything that happens on his property, nor should he be.  But he does have an obligation to break up fights or prevent avoidable crimes that he's aware of.  Maybe it's just self interest, but the proprietor is also maintaining a space that can be shared.

That, for me, is the key point.  The web is a shared space and these types of things are avoidable.  In general, I dislike comments that attack people rather than arguments, but I've been accused of clinging to an outrageously naive view of people.  There's still no excuse.

One point from Jessica Valenti's article that particularly stood out to me is that men may be called "idiots" but they won't be called "whores."  I can't even think of a word that has the same connotation yet would be applied to men.  That seems symptomatic.

Thought!  I wonder if some of these comments would be considered slander or libel.  True, the blog comments are different from speech/print, but that could be a legal avenue -- more for insults than threats, I suppose. 

And now I can't decide if I've been lucky or sheltered online.  My support for pseudonymity remains unchanged, if not strengthened.

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But he does have an obligation to break up fights or prevent avoidable crimes that he's aware of.

Hmm, yeah, I like the "that he's aware of" aspect of your analogy.

My support for pseudonymity remains unchanged, if not strengthened.

Pseudonymity Is Good (PIG).

This acronym thing is addictive.

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First, I agree that misogyny can be a problem online, but I don't think anyone should be surprised or particularly concerned. If you get a bunch of people together for no-holds-barred verbal sparring, they will attack each other's sensitive points. They will target the nerds' intelligence, the high schoolers' maturity and, especially in a male-dominated group, the women's femininity. It sucks, but that's the internet.

Second, I think a lot of people forget that with that with google and the wayback machine, You Own Your Own Words Forever, Foo! (YOYOWFF!) The possibility of future embarrassment should encourage people to moderate their tone.

Third, while I think demanding that bloggers take responsibility for their comments is absurd, a blogger does have an interest in controlling his site's tone. Some people prefer civilized discussion, others lowercase abbreviated bubbliness, others a good vicious blowing-off of steam, and each proprietor needs to decide which he wants to support. Also, each commenter needs to decide whether he wants to identify with and absorb the norms of a particular community.

The most heavy-handed way to regulate is of course to completely disable comments, or to moderate them all. But in most cases, the blogger can lead by example, delete truly exceptional trolls, and tolerate the rest. Ultimately, self-regulation seems remarkably effective, as people gravitate to communities they prefer. For example, while there are occasional trolls here at TPM, and regulars you learn to avoid, there is a core of long-term contributors who keep the tone more-or-less right.

I guess this is the upside of the echo-chamber phenomenon: On the one hand, people gravitate toward communities of like-minded people so they can feel better having their beliefs reinforced. On the other hand, they find groups with their desired balance of dishing-out and receiving of abuse. If you don't like your current civilization you can always, albeit with some effort, move further West and start another.

So I guess that model-wise, I don't see this as an either/or situation: the web is big enough to support everything from publication-quality, edited posting with limited feedback (e.g. Leiter Reports, the Valve) to free-wheeling, ephemeral conversation (e.g. many bulletin boards).

And I need an editor.

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If you don't like your current civilization you can always, albeit with some effort, move further West and start another.

Pioneers, cool :-)

But... what do you do when one of those other civilizations is doing stuff like this?

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I think it's probably being done in private already, and these people don't fully realize that "online" means "public". As long as it doesn't go from words to deeds, it's distasteful rather than threatening.

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