Thank You For Dying
The recent "debate" on health care is driving me nuts, every day there are people going around spreading false information and make false arguments. They know they are lying and they know what they are doing and they just keep on doing it. So much of the media either let them get away with it or treat them like they actually believe what they are saying. There is no debating with these people on those topics, if you treat it like a real debate you are going to lose no matter what. The reason why is because they aren't trying to win a debate on healthcare against you, they are trying to make sure the audience doesn't think you won, because if you don't win they win. If you never saw Thank_You_for_Smoking I would recommend it. Heres part of the movie where tobacco lobbyist is talking to his son about how to debate.
Joey Naylor: ...so what happens when you're wrong?
Nick Naylor: Whoa, Joey I'm never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But you can't always be right...
Nick Naylor: Well, if it's your job to be right, then you're never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But what if you are wrong?
Nick Naylor: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say...
Joey Naylor: No, chocolate is.
Nick Naylor: Exactly, but you can't win that argument... so, I'll ask you: so you think chocolate is the end all and the all of ice-cream, do you?
Joey Naylor: It's the best ice-cream, I wouldn't order any other.
Nick Naylor: Oh! So it's all chocolate for you is it?
Joey Naylor: Yes, chocolate is all I need.
Nick Naylor: Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Joey Naylor, that is the defintion of liberty.
Joey Naylor: But that's not what we're talking about
Nick Naylor: Ah! But that's what I'm talking about.
Joey Naylor: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best...
Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right.
Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me
Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them.
[points into the crowd]
Whenever someone debates one of these loons on TV they must go in with the mind set that the person they will be debating will behave like this and they need to not fall for the trap. They can't let them sucker them into some debate on "death panels" or any other made up distraction because if your spending your time debating on worthless crap like that then your already losing. Call it out for the lie it is and call out the person spreading it then demand the debate get back on topic and that you won't waste anymore time on their distraction.
Joey Naylor: ...so what happens when you're wrong?
Nick Naylor: Whoa, Joey I'm never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But you can't always be right...
Nick Naylor: Well, if it's your job to be right, then you're never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But what if you are wrong?
Nick Naylor: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say...
Joey Naylor: No, chocolate is.
Nick Naylor: Exactly, but you can't win that argument... so, I'll ask you: so you think chocolate is the end all and the all of ice-cream, do you?
Joey Naylor: It's the best ice-cream, I wouldn't order any other.
Nick Naylor: Oh! So it's all chocolate for you is it?
Joey Naylor: Yes, chocolate is all I need.
Nick Naylor: Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Joey Naylor, that is the defintion of liberty.
Joey Naylor: But that's not what we're talking about
Nick Naylor: Ah! But that's what I'm talking about.
Joey Naylor: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best...
Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right.
Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me
Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them.
[points into the crowd]
Whenever someone debates one of these loons on TV they must go in with the mind set that the person they will be debating will behave like this and they need to not fall for the trap. They can't let them sucker them into some debate on "death panels" or any other made up distraction because if your spending your time debating on worthless crap like that then your already losing. Call it out for the lie it is and call out the person spreading it then demand the debate get back on topic and that you won't waste anymore time on their distraction.
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I think you are describing the technique of the "Red Herring," a ploy to create a diversion and focus everyone's attention on it and not on the main point at hand, the original point that the user of the red herring does not want people to think about now, or later, even remember.
August 14, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink