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Snake Oil, or Snake Eyes: How We Lose $Billions to the Pharmaceutical Industry.
My last post laid out some of the challenges we will face from the insurance and pharmaceutical industries while pursuing a universal single payer health care system. One of my themes was that 'money talks'. Today I'm going to talk about how the pharmaceutical industry is gobbling a piece of our $2 Trillion national health care pie we may not have even noticed was missing. Aside from the pharmaceutical companies lobbying and PR efforts, drug money also talks in the way it attains FDA approval for drugs that show no significant improvement over drugs that are all ready available or whose claims of efficacy are dubious. In the New York Review of Books, Marcia Angell, recaps three books chronicling the collusion between pharmaceutical manufacturers and the academic institutions involved in validating the effectiveness of our prescription drugs, (I quote and paraphrase her article herein liberally). Like what has been revealed in the financial sector of our economy, greed plays a major role in the subordination of what we might have expected from the pharmaceutical industry, researchers, academic research institutions, and our own Food and Drug Administration.
The article and books chronicle multiple instances of conflict of interest, (COI), between the pharmaceutical industry, drug researchers, and the academic institutions responsible for validating those drugs' usefulness. Research agreements between drug manufacturers and academicians generally require as a condition of funding that the company be intimately involved in the experimental design, analysis, and writing of the academic papers. Researchers with a solid academic reputation, or Key Opinion Leaders, (KOLs), are highly sought after by the drug industry in order to project the imprimatur of credibility to the research. Financial remuneration is usually proportional to the researcher's academic reputation.
For example, Dr. J.L. Biederman, ( a professor of psychiatric research at Harvard Medical School and chief of pediatric psychopharmacology at Harvard's Massachusetts General Hospital), conducted research that led to the creation of a market for drugs for patients as young as 2 years of age in the treatment of bipolar disorder. His studies have been described as "so small and loosely designed that they were largely inconclusive". Last June it was revealed that Biederman had received $1.6 Million from the drug manufacturers who produce and market the drug cocktail he advocates. Two of Biederman's colleagues received similar amounts. Winning the Nobel Prize in chemistry pales by comparison to the financial rewards offered by drug companies to academic researchers.
Dr. Alan F. Schatzberg, chair of Stanford's psychiatry department and president-elect of the American Psychiatric Association controlled more than $6 million worth of stock in Corcept Therapeutics, a company he cofounded that is testing mifepristone--the abortion drug otherwise known as RU-486--as a treatment for psychotic depression. Schatzberg has authored three papers as principle investigator on the use of mifepristone as a treatment for psychotic depression.
"In 2004, after the National Cholesterol Education Program called for sharply lowering the desired levels of "bad" cholesterol, it was revealed that eight of nine members of the panel writing the recommendations had financial ties to the makers of cholesterol-lowering drugs".
In addition to these examples, 55% of contributors to the most recent edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM - the diagnostic and treatment bible for psychological and psychiatric disorders), had financial ties to drug companies.
Conflict of interest transcends the bounds of individual researchers and inserts itself into the relationship of the academic institutions conducting drug research through the creation of endowed chairs in medical facilities across America. This, coupled with the controlling agreements written by the drug companies can often result in negative conclusions being suppressed or 'tweaked' to put a positive spin on such. In clinical trials which are conducted to attain approval by the FDA for a drugs use, the results of what can be many trials are submitted, and as long as one or two are positive, (show effectiveness without serious risk), the drug is usually approved even if all the other trials are negative. In this way drugs that may be marginally effective for their stated claims enter the market. Bias becomes endemic:
A generation ago, medical schools didn't have extensive financial dealings with the industry, and faculty investigators who carried out industry-sponsored research generally did not have other financial ties to their sponsors. A recent survey found that 2/3 of academic medical schools hold equity stakes in companies that sponsor research with them. Another study discovered that 2/3 of department chairs received departmental income, while 3/5 received personal income from drug manufacturers.
Melody Petersen, a reporter for The New York Times, explains the many ways, legal and illegal, that drug companies can create "blockbusters" (drugs with yearly sales of over a billion dollars) and the essential role that Key Opinion Leaders play.
The brass ring in the drug business is creating an altogether new disease. Doing so can be extremely lucrative for drug manufacturers. Christopher Lane uses shyness as his case study of disease-mongering in psychiatry.
The majority of big pharmaceutical manufacturers have settled charges of fraud and other offenses. While the penalties are sometimes enormous, they are still dwarfed by the profits realized and as such do not act as a effective deterrent.
The necessary reforms to restore integrity to clinical research are myriad. New legislation regarding conflict of interest and changes in FDA regulations are the most apparent. There is an obvious need for the medical profession to forgo drug industry money entirely. Industry-academic collaboration can make important scientific contributions, notably in carrying out basic research rather than clinical trials. The probability of COI in clinical trials is too great for the current model of the drug industry/medical profession to continue. Financial support of medical research should have no strings attached, especially control by drug manufacturers over the design, interpretation, and publication of results.
Angell concludes:
So here we are, with the monied interests buying control over our health care yet again. The drug companies continue to pitch their snake oil curatives to us, but with the financial embedding of the manufacturers in the research community we as health care consumers can come up with snake eyes in our drug treatments all too often. While we're busy pursuing our livelihood, trying to make ends meet, making sure the bottom doesn't drop out of our own little world, the big drug companies are quietly going about business as usual, spending huge amounts of money designing new ways to extract cash from the public. Through the manipulation of research, and its selective publication, we are sitting ducks,
waiting for the big drug companies to draw a bead on us, so they can sell us a drug for a condition that may not exist, and we may not have; A drug that may not be effective in treating the disease anyway. They're working on one that's tailor made for each and every one of us. When we go to the hardware store, we notice if an item costs more, or doesn't do what it was designed to do, and we can take it back for a refund or shop for a better product. Medications are inherently different. We depend on our physicians to relay accurate information regarding our drugs to us. If that trust is compromised, we have no real way of evaluating decisions regarding our medications.
Greed is beginning to appear to be a hallmark of unbridled capitalism. If we allow it to happen, you can bet that it will. Between the 'tens of billions' of dollars spent manipulating the pharmaceutical market by the big drug companies, and the equally astounding amount they spend on marketing their products on television, radio, print, and the web, there is an incredible inefficiency and cost built into our current health care system. Estimates of the drug industry's advertising expenditures alone reached $57 Billion in 2002. Some of these expenditures can be trimmed from health care costs in the US. Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" is not a given in the US. It is a participation sport so to speak. Will we insist our government protect our financial and health care interests by legislating conflict of interest controls regarding pharmaceuticals and reforming FDA licensing procedures, or will we lapse into a societal coma while the special interests rifle our pockets?
Contact your congressperson and senators and let them know how you feel.
Note: Unattributed quotes are from Marcia Angell's article in the New York Review of Books
The article and books chronicle multiple instances of conflict of interest, (COI), between the pharmaceutical industry, drug researchers, and the academic institutions responsible for validating those drugs' usefulness. Research agreements between drug manufacturers and academicians generally require as a condition of funding that the company be intimately involved in the experimental design, analysis, and writing of the academic papers. Researchers with a solid academic reputation, or Key Opinion Leaders, (KOLs), are highly sought after by the drug industry in order to project the imprimatur of credibility to the research. Financial remuneration is usually proportional to the researcher's academic reputation.
For example, Dr. J.L. Biederman, ( a professor of psychiatric research at Harvard Medical School and chief of pediatric psychopharmacology at Harvard's Massachusetts General Hospital), conducted research that led to the creation of a market for drugs for patients as young as 2 years of age in the treatment of bipolar disorder. His studies have been described as "so small and loosely designed that they were largely inconclusive". Last June it was revealed that Biederman had received $1.6 Million from the drug manufacturers who produce and market the drug cocktail he advocates. Two of Biederman's colleagues received similar amounts. Winning the Nobel Prize in chemistry pales by comparison to the financial rewards offered by drug companies to academic researchers.
Dr. Alan F. Schatzberg, chair of Stanford's psychiatry department and president-elect of the American Psychiatric Association controlled more than $6 million worth of stock in Corcept Therapeutics, a company he cofounded that is testing mifepristone--the abortion drug otherwise known as RU-486--as a treatment for psychotic depression. Schatzberg has authored three papers as principle investigator on the use of mifepristone as a treatment for psychotic depression.
"In 2004, after the National Cholesterol Education Program called for sharply lowering the desired levels of "bad" cholesterol, it was revealed that eight of nine members of the panel writing the recommendations had financial ties to the makers of cholesterol-lowering drugs".
In addition to these examples, 55% of contributors to the most recent edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM - the diagnostic and treatment bible for psychological and psychiatric disorders), had financial ties to drug companies.
The drug industry's funding extends beyond the research arm of medical institutions. Many physicians are engaged as speakers at company sponsored meetings or as ghost authors of papers written by the drug companies. Others are paid as 'researchers' to put their patients on company drugs and report token information to the company. Physicians receive free meals as well as outright gifts. Drug manufacturers fund most professional meetings, as well as continuing education for MDs. Angell estimates the amount of money paid to physicians by the industry to be in the "tens of billions of dollars". Extensive funding of medical researchers as well as practitioners has allowed the drug industry excessive control over how drugs are evaluated and used, as well as the interpretation of results of research, and even defining what constitutes a disease. Academicians can be little more than "window dressing" in these projects.
Conflict of interest transcends the bounds of individual researchers and inserts itself into the relationship of the academic institutions conducting drug research through the creation of endowed chairs in medical facilities across America. This, coupled with the controlling agreements written by the drug companies can often result in negative conclusions being suppressed or 'tweaked' to put a positive spin on such. In clinical trials which are conducted to attain approval by the FDA for a drugs use, the results of what can be many trials are submitted, and as long as one or two are positive, (show effectiveness without serious risk), the drug is usually approved even if all the other trials are negative. In this way drugs that may be marginally effective for their stated claims enter the market. Bias becomes endemic:
A review of seventy-four clinical trials of antidepressants, for example, found that thirty-seven of thirty-eight positive studies were published. But of the thirty-six negative studies, thirty-three were either not published or published in a form that conveyed a positive outcome.The penalty for malfeasance by the pharmaceutical industry is outweighed by the astronomical profits they can make. Paxil, an antidepressant, eventually came to trial on the charge that it was "ineffective and possibly harmful to children". The manufacturer agreed to settle charges of consumer fraud for $2.4 million. Given annual sales of Paxil at the time ($2.7 Billion), the payment amounted to little more than a slap on the wrist.
A generation ago, medical schools didn't have extensive financial dealings with the industry, and faculty investigators who carried out industry-sponsored research generally did not have other financial ties to their sponsors. A recent survey found that 2/3 of academic medical schools hold equity stakes in companies that sponsor research with them. Another study discovered that 2/3 of department chairs received departmental income, while 3/5 received personal income from drug manufacturers.
Melody Petersen, a reporter for The New York Times, explains the many ways, legal and illegal, that drug companies can create "blockbusters" (drugs with yearly sales of over a billion dollars) and the essential role that Key Opinion Leaders play.
Her main example is Neurontin, which was initially approved only for a very narrow use--to treat epilepsy when other drugs failed to control seizures. By paying academic experts to put their names on articles extolling Neurontin for other uses--bipolar disease, post-traumatic stress disorder, insomnia, restless legs syndrome, hot flashes, migraines, tension headaches, and more--and by funding conferences at which these uses were promoted, the manufacturer was able to parlay the drug into a blockbuster, with sales of $2.7 billion in 2003. The following year, in a case covered extensively by Petersen for the Times, Pfizer pleaded guilty to illegal marketing and agreed to pay $430 million to resolve the criminal and civil charges against it. A lot of money, but for Pfizer, it was just the cost of doing business, and well worth it because Neurontin continued to be used like an all-purpose tonic, generating billions of dollars in annual sales.
The brass ring in the drug business is creating an altogether new disease. Doing so can be extremely lucrative for drug manufacturers. Christopher Lane uses shyness as his case study of disease-mongering in psychiatry.
Shyness as a psychiatric illness made its debut as "social phobia" in DSM-III in 1980, but was said to be rare. By 1994, when DSM-IV was published, it had become "social anxiety disorder," now said to be extremely common. According to Lane, GlaxoSmithKline, hoping to boost sales for its antidepressant, Paxil, decided to promote social anxiety disorder as "a severe medical condition." In 1999, the company received FDA approval to market the drug for social anxiety disorder. It launched an extensive media campaign to do it, including posters in bus shelters across the country showing forlorn individuals and the words "Imagine being allergic to people...," and sales soared. Barry Brand, Paxil's product director, was quoted as saying, "Every marketer's dream is to find an unidentified or unknown market and develop it. That's what we were able to do with social anxiety disorder."Psychoactive drugs comprise some of the biggest 'blockbusters to date.
Children are particularly vulnerable targets. What parents dare say "No" when a physician says their difficult child is sick and recommends drug treatment? We are now in the midst of an apparent epidemic of bipolar disease in children (which seems to be replacing attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder as the most publicized condition in childhood), with a forty-fold increase in the diagnosis between 1994 and 2003. These children are often treated with multiple drugs off-label, [for conditions for which the drug has not been approved by the FDA], many of which, whatever their other properties, are sedating, and nearly all of which have potentially serious side effects."The majority of big pharmaceutical manufacturers have settled charges of fraud and other offenses. While the penalties are sometimes enormous, they are still dwarfed by the profits realized and as such do not act as a effective deterrent.
"Physicians, medical schools, and professional organizations have no such excuse, since their only fiduciary responsibility is to patients. The mission of medical schools and teaching hospitals--and what justifies their tax-exempt status--is to educate the next generation of physicians, carry out scientifically important research, and care for the sickest members of society. It is not to enter into lucrative commercial alliances with the pharmaceutical industry. As reprehensible as many industry practices are, I believe the behavior of much of the medical profession is even more culpable. Drug companies are not charities; they expect something in return for the money they spend, and they evidently get it or they wouldn't keep paying."
The majority of big pharmaceutical manufacturers have settled charges of fraud and other offenses. While the penalties are sometimes enormous, they are still dwarfed by the profits realized and as such do not act as a effective deterrent.
The necessary reforms to restore integrity to clinical research are myriad. New legislation regarding conflict of interest and changes in FDA regulations are the most apparent. There is an obvious need for the medical profession to forgo drug industry money entirely. Industry-academic collaboration can make important scientific contributions, notably in carrying out basic research rather than clinical trials. The probability of COI in clinical trials is too great for the current model of the drug industry/medical profession to continue. Financial support of medical research should have no strings attached, especially control by drug manufacturers over the design, interpretation, and publication of results.
Angell concludes:
After much unfavorable publicity, medical schools and professional organizations are beginning to talk about controlling conflicts of interest, but so far the response has been tepid. They consistently refer to "potential" conflicts of interest, as though that were different from the real thing, and about disclosing and "managing" them, not about prohibiting them. In short, there seems to be a desire to eliminate the smell of corruption, while keeping the money. Breaking the dependence of the medical profession on the pharmaceutical industry will take more than appointing committees and other gestures. It will take a sharp break from an extremely lucrative pattern of behavior. But if the medical profession does not put an end to this corruption voluntarily, it will lose the confidence of the public, and the government will step in and impose regulation. No one in medicine wants that.
So here we are, with the monied interests buying control over our health care yet again. The drug companies continue to pitch their snake oil curatives to us, but with the financial embedding of the manufacturers in the research community we as health care consumers can come up with snake eyes in our drug treatments all too often. While we're busy pursuing our livelihood, trying to make ends meet, making sure the bottom doesn't drop out of our own little world, the big drug companies are quietly going about business as usual, spending huge amounts of money designing new ways to extract cash from the public. Through the manipulation of research, and its selective publication, we are sitting ducks,
waiting for the big drug companies to draw a bead on us, so they can sell us a drug for a condition that may not exist, and we may not have; A drug that may not be effective in treating the disease anyway. They're working on one that's tailor made for each and every one of us. When we go to the hardware store, we notice if an item costs more, or doesn't do what it was designed to do, and we can take it back for a refund or shop for a better product. Medications are inherently different. We depend on our physicians to relay accurate information regarding our drugs to us. If that trust is compromised, we have no real way of evaluating decisions regarding our medications.
Greed is beginning to appear to be a hallmark of unbridled capitalism. If we allow it to happen, you can bet that it will. Between the 'tens of billions' of dollars spent manipulating the pharmaceutical market by the big drug companies, and the equally astounding amount they spend on marketing their products on television, radio, print, and the web, there is an incredible inefficiency and cost built into our current health care system. Estimates of the drug industry's advertising expenditures alone reached $57 Billion in 2002. Some of these expenditures can be trimmed from health care costs in the US. Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" is not a given in the US. It is a participation sport so to speak. Will we insist our government protect our financial and health care interests by legislating conflict of interest controls regarding pharmaceuticals and reforming FDA licensing procedures, or will we lapse into a societal coma while the special interests rifle our pockets?
Contact your congressperson and senators and let them know how you feel.
Note: Unattributed quotes are from Marcia Angell's article in the New York Review of Books
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And don't forget Medicare Part D - the nefarious pact between drug companies, insurance companies, and the repubs in power. Part D is separate from regular Medicare, costs an arm and a leg, prevents negotiating prices for drugs and places outpatient medicines in the hands of people who want to profit by denying the drug to the patient.
As for gifts to docs from drug companies that has been brought to a screeching halt by recent legislation. Lots of perks like that for docs are now forbidden. Even professional meetings of all types must now report whether the speaker has any ties with drug companies (or whatnot).
And let us not forget that if you are an animal in need of a drug that people also use, you can get it cheaper, way cheaper, than a person can. How about that perk for animals?
Kudos on this review, miguelitoh2o!
January 11, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't even need a prescription for animals.
January 11, 2009 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most drugs in vet medicine do require a prescription. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it because the drug is dispensed by the vet office. Veterinarians mainly purchase their drugs from the animal division of the human pharmaceutical companies, through distributors. These are often cheaper then the human equivalent and a veterinarian mark up is often less than a pharmacy. But if we are trying to use a newly developed drug or one that is still hot on the human market it becomes cost prohibitive to treat an animal with it. Once the patent ends it is a different story. We will also keep costs down by sticking with an older drug if it works as well as the newly developed one. Also in human medicine, many prescriptions are limited to a 30 day supply allowing pharmacies to charge a monthly dispensing fee .
January 11, 2009 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this input bella. It brings up the issue of all those free samples that every doctor's office dispenses. Those of course are the 'new' drugs, whose patents haven't yet expired. Then of course we continue by filling the script written for us, (for said new drug at higher prices perhaps than existing drugs that may be in a statistical dead heat with the newer, 'improved' version.
January 12, 2009 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for that info on Medicare Part D Thera. That is an area of our overall healthcare system I know little of. I know of the difference between our pet prescriptions vs human. I have several veterinarian friends who've told me what my own scripts would cost for a dog. Suffice it to say, the price was significantly less than my copay was on my prescription plan. Which in turn begs the question of what the value of a prescription plan is under our current health care system.
January 11, 2009 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent, Miguel. Well researched, well written.
I hope you have a part three dealing with the actual costs to the consumers who purchase the drugs from their local pharmacies either outright or through insurance. I have my own outrage with that situation but I doubt if I could express it as clearly as you seem to be able to do.
Migwetch (thanks)
January 11, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Migwetch back at you FC. I was tempted to stray into the subject of actual cost vs cost through our health care 'system', but decided to keep focused on the morass of the research community/pharmaceutical industry. One of the things I became aware of after I was dropped from my group health insurance plan was that I can basically acquire all of my prescription meds from a Canadian pharmacy for very little more than I was paying through my copays. Which as I stated above to TheraP, begs the question of the worth of a prescription plan. It seems to be not unlike a catastrophic plan with a big pile of bells and whistles adorning it to make it appear as something more than it in fact is.
January 11, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have a look at Costco for mail order and see what you think about it as compared to Canada. Not, that Canada isn't good, but at one time the US prohibited buying prescription meds over the border...probably because some drug company here whined about revenue loss. Didn't last too long...but, it could happen again. (Unlikely, though)
You do not need to be a member of the Costco buying club thing to purchase prescription drugs because they are a federally regulated commodity.
http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?cat=678&eCat=BC|678
Sorry to put this out here in the blogoshpere but I do not know how else to get this information to you.
January 11, 2009 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanx for the tip!
January 11, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, in my case it's about $825.00 for 3 months vs. about $200.00. I will say they offer a significant discount over the $700.00 or so per month my local Pharmacy wanted.
=(
January 11, 2009 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I currently have a prescription plan that I don't even bother using. I can get my prescription at Costco for less than the amount of my copay, so that is how I go. Also I don't want the insurance company meddling in which drug I actually end up getting with their various "rules" about preferred drugs etc.
Further, my Dr. is aware that I refuse to take any prescription drug that advertises on TV. I am just very suspicious of a company spending millions of dollars to try to convince me to ask for their magic pill.
January 12, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
How in god's name could someone diagnose a 2 year old's bi-polar problem. Is that when your two year old laughs and then spits out his food? What in the hell is going on here. You know Dennis Leary got a lot of flack for his book when he took on doctors who loosely diagnose autism. But his book also notes that he knows real autism. He has friends who have had to deal with this devil and I have witnessed true autism also, decades ago.
"In 2004, after the National Cholesterol Education Program called for sharply lowering the desired levels of "bad" cholesterol, it was revealed that eight of nine members of the panel writing the recommendations had financial ties to the makers of cholesterol-lowering drugs".
This is republicanism at its best. Lawyers, doctors and pols are supposed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. But hell, when a vice president gives no bid ks to his own company, I guess anything goes.
And I do not care if Dems get caught in some deep investigation. They should be punished too.
Everybody seems to be sucking everybody else's dick. (excuse the expression)
Generals are paid by pension, by the pentagon to spew propaganda, by cable news to pretend they are experts and by corporations that use them to get billion dollar contracts.
The SEC actually brings in felons to 'advise'. Then they just scan financial statements under direct order from the guy that runs the SEC.
Is this issue irrelevant here? I think not, the drug companies have some of the biggest values in the Stock Market.
And like defense, the drug companies (or should I say dealers) get most of their monies right from the government.
I am so enraged by the felonies disclosed in your post that I am speechless, which is not a usual state for me.
January 11, 2009 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess it depends on how much they get paid to.
January 11, 2009 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah Bwak and you and I had to deal with real life threatening issues with regard to our baby and to throw taxpayers dollars or even ins dollars at this kind of tripe takes away from everybody who needs help. and that is enough, i have had it.
You know I think Daschel has set up some blog on this. We should all petition or write some communal thing. Miguel could always send his stuff in with our signatures or something.
At least we could pretend we were being heard and who knows, maybe we would be.
January 11, 2009 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sign me up to sign on to that. I haven't got a clue how to set it up but who ever does, let me know and I'll put my X on it.
January 11, 2009 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was also stunned by the glee in manufacturing new illnesses that could be cured by the drugs meant to cure something else entirely. That is just demented.
January 11, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is pretty incredible indeed Dick. These things happen because we allow them to. Mostly we allow these conflicts of interest to continue, because we don't know they exist in the first place. We don't know because the media we have traditionally depended upon to tell us these things depends on revenues generated from advertising contracts with the vested interests. 'Round and round, and round, we spin, with feet of lead and wings of tin' - K. Vonnegut. If enough of us become aware, and keep on our elected officials perhaps we can accomplish some protections for ourselves and our money. Your profanity above pretty well sums up the incestuous relations that exist as a direct result of the colloquialism that 'that government that governs best, governs least'. After 26 years of living under a government that trusts the vested interests to protect us better than our government ever could, we've begun to see the harvest of that sowing.
January 11, 2009 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh and I hate to impose on you but you have two great posts that could somehow be turned into a joint communique from many of us. You can read here that people would sign on.
January 11, 2009 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the suggestion Dick. I Contacted BHO, and my senators/representative with a copy of my last post as well as the comments, and a letter explaining the context. I encourage anyone reading this to feel free to copy any or all of these posts and forward with a letter of your concern to your elected representatives. One thing that dawns on me is to contact Moveon.org and/or AARP with a similar letter of endorsement for mounting campaigns on this front. I'm not sure they would take on such issues, but it would be useful to have a consolidator for these issues.
January 11, 2009 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I shall mount my trusty steed in the morrow and see what I can find out on this.
January 11, 2009 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent, as usual, Miguel. I am still outraged that drug companies have made it pretty much illegal to have prescriptions filled in other countries, like Canada and Mexico. I know that a lot of people still manage to do it, but there is a risk involved.
Unlike what the drug companies tell you, the risk is NOT from inferior drugs, but of getting caught by border guards. I wonder if Quinn can comment on the number of people walking around Canada that drop dead on a daily basis from their tainted medications -- must be lots of them if we are to believe our government. Probably dangerous to drive up there because of all the people taking those Canadian drugs and falling out -- maybe a preview of the Rapture!
January 11, 2009 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hah! That's the myth they propogate Cville. The only thing I would recommend staying away from is Chinese manufactured meds. There have been studies done on these, and due to lax controls, the potency of China manufactured meds can vary wildly.
January 11, 2009 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in an area with a huge concentration of firms which export drugs to the US, and I can tell you that the pressure the US authorities can exert in this field is pretty bloody amazing. (Scary.) All in all though, we view the drug export business as - to be blunt - a really dumb arrangement. Like, the US isn't going to sooner or later figure this out, and just do the right thing and supply its own citizens?? That said, everybody here has American relatives & friends, and they all know it performs a valuable public service.
As for quality, well... these comments about "lower standards" from Big Pharma get under the skin a bit. Because if there's one thing that Canadians are, it's cautious. Risk-averse. You know, if you can't trust the "most boring nation in the world" on these things, who can you trust? (Which is perhaps why I'm considered downright UnAmerican when I work here!)
But that caution & safety-emphasis tends to mean that standards - and public pressures - for almost everything are quite high here. (See: The Canadian banking industry, which got blocked from going too far into sub-prime, and which as a result is now the most solid in the OECD.)
This doesn't mean there aren't con-men & crooked outfits (see: Conrad Black), there are. But on the whole? People aren't keeling over in the streets. They're living LONGER.
January 12, 2009 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good piece M2O. I took some time go scan that big 2007 report done by McKinsey on why US health costs are higher than in other OCED nations. You may have read it, but it only took a sign-in to get the report.
Interesting results, even if McKinsey has their own tilt. To start, they estimate overall excess costs in the US are $477-$700 billion each year. (They get down to the $477 B. largely by adjusting for higher GDP in the US than the OCED avg.)
McKinsey says excess ADMIN is the largest extra cost - 85% of this for private insurance, who also took in a tall glass worth of profits, and marketing costs.
Drugs they found at ~$66 billion in excess costs even after adjustments, or roughly 70% above prices in other nations. The Report had many ways to slice/dice these numbers, but worth a look at the detail.
Doctor's salaries were interesting, going beyond that NYT article being quoted today (which turned out to be based on "recruitment" postings, using 2000 data, etc.) While nurses earned slightly more than nurses elsewhere (1.37 times GDP vs 1.33 elsewhere), Doctors' salaries were much higher, even with similar training lengths etc. (And apparently this is AFTER taking out liability insurance & paperwork costs etc.)
For generalists, even after adjustment, McKinsey found Specialists made 6.63 times GDP vs 4.04 elsewhere; while Generalists made 4.18 times GDP vs 3.17. Once you stripped out the GDP, and just looked at absolute salaries, US Specialists averaged $274k (after liability costs etc.) vs. $177k in Canada, $134k in France, and $75k in Sweden. Similarly for Generalists.
As for the time & cost of training argument, McKinsey found it "not convincing" & noted "other US professionals undergo the same length of training & investment but are not as well compensated."
I suspect a number of people here might find the study interesting if they haven't already seen it, but I should warn you. "McKinsey" is showing signs of becoming a Class Warrior outfit.
Oh yes. There's also been a multi-part NYT series running under their "Economix" heading, entitled, "Why Does US Health Care Cost So Much," which has some useful stuff pulling the variables apart- Here.
Undoubtedly this is a complex system, with private insurance, doctors, and many other links involved. But kudos for (at last!) releasing this post on Pharma (it appeared earlier, then WHOOSH! Gone!) A good friend of mine spent a lot of time breaking stories around corrupt links between the Pharma industry & Health Dept drug approvals staff up here, whereby scientists were threatened by their managers to speed up approvals etc.
So I don't want you thinking things are too peachy are here. Cheers dude! ;-)
January 11, 2009 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
College Professors (Mr. TheraP was a Prof) College profs earn very little for all their education. Too many are employed part-time so colleges can save money.
Psychologists (I have 8 years of postgraduate education counting 2 grad degrees and credits equaling another year when I was teaching young children)
Yes, no reason for docs to make a million. Life is pretty good if you live frugally. At a certain point, people really don't need so much. They may want it. But they don't "need" it.
Our nation has become too obsessed with money and what you can buy. We need to change our values. And this current economic downturn may force us to do that.
Sorry, M2O, to have strayed beyond your thread - but quinn's commen got me going! We may need another thread on this one some time.
January 11, 2009 11:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thera, it all ties together by translating to increased health care costs here in the US. I think we should feel free to venture far and wide from posts on tangents. That's part of what I wanted to convey here as opposed to my last post: That the lack of a single payer system is just the tip of the iceberg of our health care dysfunction. There may well be some apologists who will decry the devastating effects of reform on the pharmaceutical industry, and that we need their money in order to develop new, more effective drugs. The industry could save billions by eliminating a large chunk of their corporate largess, and therein fund a lot of research/jobs. Regarding the developement of new drugs, what I want people to take away this, is perhaps something I should have stated more definitively. That is, that we pay for all this overhead, besides getting bad, or marginally effective drugs. So why not pay for it up front, by funding research through federal grants, with provisions for partnerships on the international market for any breakthroughs on the federal dime. Cut out the inefficiency, eliminate massive marketing costs, and get better drugs, at a reduced taxpayer cost ultimately.
January 12, 2009 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You absolutely don't want to do this, despite it's being a trend at universities. It puts the universities in a for-profit mode and prevents the research from being distributed to the community. In addition, research at universities is guided by faculty but carried out by people who are just learning. There is a reason for that salary jump upon graduation.
Many industries have gutted their research labs since WWII (AT&T Bell Labs is perhaps the most well-known). The idea is that research could always be carried out at the universities. But that puts the faculty in a financial stake with the research and tends to lower the quality of the overall work. (You can keep better ideas, for example in your head, until you are ready to spin out.) Moreover, people tend not to publish as much which seriously impedes progress in a field.
A better option is National Labs -- but things go back to pay and bureaucracy again. The best option is the old-school industrial labs. The problem is that nowadays, the people that run corporations do it off of a Harvard Business School model. In other words, any smart MBA can run any business in the same way. This was not the case in the few decades post WWII, but the amount of MBAs flooding industry in the 80s really changed a lot of culture.
January 12, 2009 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
So what do you suggest? I don't follow your statement that 'It puts the universities in a for-profit mode and prevents the research from being distributed to the community". National labs and bureaucracy/pay are surmountable problems. I understand the limitations of 'old school' corporate labs, (they worked better when ATT/ITT had a monopoly). It's true that some will wait the usual 2 year period before relinquishing their non-compete clause in their employment contracts, but how many researchers work in that much of a vacuum? Where there isn't someone else in the organization who can duplicate/all ready understands the work that researcher was working on? ie. Two years is too long. Their brainstorm will all ready be developed by the company.
January 12, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nearly all your assumptions are wrong.
Write down your ideas and send them immediately to your Congressmen because bigger minds have worked on this and there still is brain drain. In fact, the country can no longer support the national lab system like it once did. People are already deciding that if they have to compete for funds, they might as well do it elsewhere -- because the pay at national labs isn't particularly great (in comparison). Moreover, many national labs are mere contract monitoring houses these days.
Places like Ford, IBM, GE, Raytheon, and a host of other places had industrial labs -- and they didn't have a monopoly. So you conflated two issues that don't belong together.
There is no "two-year noncompete clause". Nothing is standard. And you have already signed away all the IP rights on any technology you invent associated with your job function to the company -- forever. Noncompete clauses, if they exist for you, is going to a competitor with lists of clients and the like. Of course, it's damned difficult to prove any of this so in a practical sense the non-compete issues are typically ignored. But recall that the noncompete clause has nothing to do with the technology which never was yours to begin with. (It's what you are paid to do.) However, if the company decides not to go after it, they might license the technology to you.
I told you what I'd do: try to bolster the industrial labs (which were always considered the creme de la creme positions because (a) you had a significant amount of autonomy and (b) you didn't have to chase funding). The industrial labs also had far better ideas than government or academia about how to actually take something to market.
Today the model is typically have a starving small company and have a big company buy it up if there is anything interesting. That's a bad model because the starving small company has to raise capital which is increasingly difficult to near impossible right now. In other words the risk is tremendously high. Most people can't stomach this risk. Most people want security. As a result, research progress slows. The filtering is high, and it implies you not only have to be really brilliant in a sci/engineering sense, but also brilliant in terms of a marketing sense.
Lastly, the government loses all kinds of new technology that is breakthrough and fielded -- and government agencies say they want. This happens all the time. It's a total waste of taxpayer money because the wheel continues to get reinvented over and over again. There are specifics I won't get into here, but it's a bad enough problem that you get shrugs from elected officials when this happens -- they see it all the time.
As I said previously, the problems with these current models are creating the notion that all research should be done in Universities. However, now you've added profit motive in a non-profit environment and already we are seeing the type of decay in the system that I described above.
January 12, 2009 3:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Nearly all your assumptions are wrong."
Thank goodness I didn't get all of them wrong. Grasshopper will abandon faulty logic and still his mind now...
January 12, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought yor spelling was predy gud.
Ok. Test-time, grasshopper.
*snatch*
*whiff*
*quinn looks at pebble still in his hand*
*smiles*
*miguelito smacks him upside with 2 by 4*
*quinn hands pebble to miguelito*
I think it is time for you to go.
January 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude! Huge belly laugh! ;)
January 12, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
This totally depends on discipline and tier of institution.
January 12, 2009 2:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
My friend, I know a lot of PhD's, (academic and non), who are earning a relatively small salary for their 4+ years of graduate education. There are no doubt some big guns who pull in the real money, but I suspect if taken as a cross section, they are paid a relatively modest amount for the years spent training. No doubt choice of 'discipline' is a factor in pay. But by the very nature of academia, we can't all be material scientists. Need a few lit guys, (leaving this abbrev. stand for you jokers), ethnobotonists, musicians, etc. Jest sayin'.
January 12, 2009 3:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and those "lit guys" actually get paid very well -- because where else are they going to use their lit degree?
PhD's in the arts as a lifestyle are the very height of luxury. Anyone who goes into those art fields to get a PhD -- which isn't required by anyone except to teach -- knows the score. Or they should if they are smart enough to graduate. If you are good enough to teach at a 1st tier school, your salary improves -- even if you teach lit or history.
I have known many people who did *not* go into those areas precisely because of the life they would have to lead. It's all about personal choice. (For what it's worth, I often find the people who claim the world is "obsessed" with money are typically older and have forgotten how the world has changed from when they entered the job market. Average home prices in metropolitan regions -- average -- can be mid to high 6 figures. Most homes require 2 incomes if you have kids, etc.)
Here we were talking about drugs. I'm hoping that people with PhDs in lit are not doing drug research -- except maybe as subjects.
January 12, 2009 4:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for that breakdown Q. You might consider cross posting this comment to CVille dem's blog of yesterday, in relation to critiquing the defense of uber-salaries for our MDs. Interesting tidbit on Canadien pharma/MD COI.
Anyone who has spent 6+ years acquiring a PhD could personally attest to the training vs recompense argument. I know, I know... tell it to the elite scientists. Sheesh! Give us a few more years... We'll all be class warriors. It was one of the Republican talking points during the general election when they criticized BHO for being in favor of wealth distribution. What has been going on for the last 25 years in this country if not wealth distribution from the many to the few? Cheers back at you!
January 12, 2009 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just reread while (repeatedly) listening to The Pusher link (Business As Usual.) Sorry dude, you shoulda just had every 2nd link hitting that one. Perfect.
For me, the PATTERN is the thing. The pattern of how, industry by industry, department by department, institution by institution, home by home, person by person, the disease has crept in. The way we allowed self-interest to chew holes in all these things. The myriad fancy terms we came up with to explain away, to justify short-term decisions, cutting corners, smudging out lines that should've been kept intact, enabling, expanding selfishness. "Synergy" this, "joint venture" that, "pay-for-performance" something else. An endless stream of....
Lies.
And now, we're left with the rot. As far as I can see. We all got hooked, Miguelito. Over these past decades, I've had my share of chances to look into the eyes of the Pusher. And most of the time, been able to turn him down. Not always. I was always surprised by who he was - educated, fast, authoritative. But deep down, each time I knew both what he was offering, and also... what he was buying. Me.
We all know. It's even in our comedies. Tropic Thunder. That great scene where Tom Cruise offers to buy the agent's complicity in his friend's death - for a G5 plane and lots of money. A comedy? Yeah. But we knew what Cruise was saying. We recognized the face of the Pusher.
If I state it too general (like this), that we all somehow "bought in," it sounds unfair to those who've fought it. Which is why I usually now just say, "Name me a sector that didn't get foully corrupted." There aren't many. Finance? Real estate? Pharma? Insurance? Energy? Justice? The Universities? Forestry? Mining? Farming? Advertizing? Marketing? Retail?
And somehow, I think we all know it, and know that it's ending. The problem is... where can you go, that's safe from all this? This is glum, I know. Late-night rumination. And yes, it's worth tackling, fighting. Which is part of this whole Obama thing. And perhaps worth especially tackling in health. The moment's here for that, the door is open a crack, so we need to kick it. Kick it hard, kick it together. And maybe if it opens, it'll also inspire change in other sectors, other parts of our lives as well.
You know, I've seen a lot of people walking around with tombstones in their eyes. But the Pusher don't care if you live, or if you die.
Goddamn... the Pusher.
January 12, 2009 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment reminds me of this post by the inestimable barth. with the caveat that unlike in the days of FDR and Herbert Hoover, the current state of affairs lacks some of the former's clarity. As you say most of us are not innocent this time around. Greed or the hope of making the big score corrupted too many in the past 30 years. First it was the me generation, then the ME, generation, then the ME, ME , ME, MEEEEE! generation. What next? The brutha can you spare a dime generation. We'll see.
Some of my favorite quotes from FDR via barth:
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
Ronald Reagan began the reversal of that kind of claptrap.
"...we have made the exercise of all power more democratic; for we have begun to bring private autocratic powers into their proper subordination to the public's government. The legend that they were invincible--above and beyond the processes of a democracy--has been shattered. They have been challenged and beaten."
Amended version: They were challenged and beaten.
"Nine mad years of mirage and three long years of despair! Powerful influences strive today to restore that kind of government with its doctrine that that Government is best which is most indifferent."
Amended version: 8 years of mirage, and ? years of despair?
"They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob."
Amended: We knew then...
And so it goes.
Whaddya think we should do
?
January 12, 2009 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Went looking for longer version of The Pusher. Needed it.
Funny, they'd added on a clip of dialogue from Easy Rider at the end of the song. 1968, right? Where Nicholson says.... "You know. This used to be a hell of a good country." He & Hopper chat for a while, and then Jack concludes:
"Freedom, that's what it's all about, alright. But talkin' about it, and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free, when you are bought & sold in the marketplace."
Real hard.
How long this lasts, I donno. I always date this shit from 9/11. Thus 7 Fat Cows.
So 7 thin years to come? Who knows. That's just a fear. But as to what to do... well, I think we've started now. Obama was a start. So we've already begun. But our response to this thing as it breaks, on finance, on health, on war, all of it - that's the game of a lifetime. Everything else feels to me like prelude. Need to get this right. Maybe it's time to start posting on what we might do, and less on what I've been posting on - where we are.
"It's real hard to be free, when you are bought & sold in the marketplace."
Real hard.
And where's Lux? Miss him.
January 12, 2009 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Been tinkin' that too. That I need to start posting on what we need to do next. We all know there's lots o' broken stuff, whut needs fixin'. I miss the ol' shadow of G__ as well. If you're out there Lux... be for real, then phone home. We miss you. Serendipity on the conversation at the end of the 'pusher' vid.
January 12, 2009 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Awesome post M20. I have a little vid that emphasizes your post. Let me know if you've heard this one. (It made the rounds a couple years back)
The Drugs I Need
January 12, 2009 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny mage. Had not seen it before. thanx for the link.
January 12, 2009 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh by the way, homeschooling is not just for fundie Christians. My son's school insisted that I put my son on ADD medication. I told them forget it. He is brilliant and artistic and there is absolutely no way I was going to make him catatonic so to make it easier on the teachers in their overcrowded classrooms.
Speaking of drugged out kids for Big Pharma profit, another fun vid I thought you'd enjoy.
Dysfunction Junction
January 12, 2009 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
No sound, and it is hilarious. SOMA...SOMA.....SOMA......
Do not we have laws against drug dealers?
January 12, 2009 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
We need to get you some speakers DD. :)
January 12, 2009 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, profoundly sad, and all to real mage.
January 12, 2009 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know first hand my friend. Gotta laugh or else you cry.
January 12, 2009 3:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your post is a public service announcement of the finest kind. Thank you, Miguel, for the investment of time and effort it surely cost you to research and write such a comprehensive (and comprehensible) post.
I couldn't begin to count all the students at my school who are on mood-altering medications of one sort or another. But I see a great number of them lined up at the infirmary every morning, where they must go to get their daily doses.
It's certainly not hard to tell when their dosages are being adjusted -- usually upward. Suddenly students become very hyper and sometimes aggressive, or conversely, they sit and stare into space, as if they are completely unaware of what is happening around them. I wonder: do they actually have conditions that require medication? Or, do they have conditions that are caused by medication?
January 12, 2009 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Or, do they have conditions that are caused by medication?"
There's the rub WW. As DickDay pointed out above, "How in god's name could someone diagnose a 2 year old's bi-polar problem. Is that when your two year old laughs and then spits out his food?". Couldn't have said it better myself. The kind of insidious marketing these companies use to hawk their wares is reprehensible, and when it's your child, "What parents dare say "No" when a physician says their difficult child is sick and recommends drug treatment?"
January 12, 2009 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno ww. My kids pediatrician never suggested that I put my kid on Ritalin. Her school did. They sent home this multipage packet that had a part for parent, a part for the kid (she was 8) and a part for their teacher to fill out. Pretty little form, 3 colors, I think. (We had to fill it out before the teacher, so we couldn't see what she wrote)
Looking back, I think it is quite possible those forms were provided by the drug company. They certainly were nicer and slicker than anything coming from the school district or the state.
I might have to look into this, I wonder if schools get kickbacks for referrals.
And, no, we declined to put her on any meds. Her doctor thought it was strange, and given her health complications a few short years later could have been quite harmful.
January 12, 2009 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
What schools do get is extra money from the state for every "disabled" child they have. This was a while ago, but the last time I checked, IL had it up to $1200 per disabled student.
Pushing the ADD/Bi-polar dx was a win situation for schools for another reason - children who would rather look out at the lovely day instead of paying attention in class now no longer have to conform to the NCLB regulations easing the pressure on teachers who were overwhelmed with all of those "hard to teach" kids.
I'd say that is some incentive.
(For the record, I think NCLB is horrid legislation)
January 12, 2009 2:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, once they're in, good luck getting them out.
It appears this might be a real issue.
http://www.adhdtesting.org/
Once again, heartless private industry feeding off the welfare of children. It boggles the heart and mind.
January 12, 2009 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Awesome link bwak! I definitely bookmarked that one.
January 12, 2009 2:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice post, Miguelito.
The larger issues are that
a) the public wants accessibility to drugs, but wants to know they are totally safe. I remember when I was a kid, Laetrile, was all the rage... and inaccessible in the US. Later tests found out it was, indeed, not valuable. At the time, however, cancer patients were pissed off it wasn't available.
b) people in this country fall for homeopathic medications all the time. Again, no proof, except the disclaimer that "well, it's natural, so how can it hurt you"? Not a shred of evidence for all these supplements, but the public buys them anyway. Do you want to regulate these out of business until they can show something more than a placebo effect? I say "yes"... but I'm sure people here would disagree.
All drugs should definitely go back to being regulated and not being advertised as "go talk to your doctor" (these include the homeopathic ones). The bigger picture, however, is how much responsibility does the general public want to take on? These days if a school doesn't notify you about any possible options, you can go back to them and sue. That's where all these crazy patterns of behavior (in society) come from: people fearful of being sued for making a wrong judgment.
That's the real loop hole exploited by the drug companies.
January 12, 2009 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for your endorsement CT. The public's thirst for the 'latest treatment' is something that will have to be addressed in whatever health care legislation we come up with in the next year. This is a prime area to be covered by the private insurers in such a system. If you want the cutting edge, not validated, or too expensive treatments, buy a supplemental health policy. One of the points I hoped to make in the post was that the cutting edge, (new), drugs are often statistically indistinguishable from existing drugs. That's something people are going to have to come to terms with in their expectations, and pay extra for or accept a more statistically based model for our health care.
I agree with your point on 'homeopathic' cures, however these are optional expenditures by consumers. They are not covered under any health plan I know of, and are not prescribed as a required medical treatment by any MD I know of, so I don't see the point here. Ie. health benefits are not validated, but risks are not indicated either.
My own experience is that there are a whole lot of other sources of crazy behaviour in society than fear of being sued. I think the real 'loophole' the drug cos. exploit is our fear for our health and our loved ones health. When faced with that we all want the 'best care available' and if we can, we'll pay for it. The reality is: Who determines what the best care is. The current model has the drug cos. playing financial footsie with the research/AMA community. Are we better off leaving the special interests of the drug cos. to define that, or should we have a greater governing body, such as, (dare I say it?), a single payer system defining treatment protocols? I vote for the latter.
January 12, 2009 3:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
The real rub is that you don't get the "best" health care (nor should you) from a single pay system. What you will get is "average" health care. The wealthy will always be able to afford more -- one of the perks of being wealthy.
The real question then is who decides what "average" is. I would assume that at some point average becomes defined in terms of what money is available in the system. The biggest issue is if the average health care for those who have it now (e.g. the middle class) drops when you start including the many of those people who don't have health care currently (e.g. average down). Either way, monitoring costs is the real issue to ensure there is the most money in the system. That is independent of the type of pay structure you have. As you point out, by reducing the price of drugs, you can have any system and have it cost less.
The best care will always be reserved (as it is now) who can pay super-premium rates or out of pocket.
January 12, 2009 4:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Adding those 47 Mil uninsured to a single payer system at an average existing per capita cost of approx. $6500 leads to an extra cost of about $306 Billion. Quin above gracefully extracted from
this article the estimated excess cost of US health care, at $477 to $700 Billion, 85% of which is due to private insurance. The same report lists the drug cos. excess at $66Billion. Do the math. Single payer will insure the entire population and cost less. Regarding the wealthy, I don't begrudge them their perks under such a system, nor do I fear receiving 'average' care. Monitoring costs in a multi payer system is far more complicated and redundant than doing so in a single payer system. And... if you're going to establish a governing federal commission to oversee multiple payers, you just added more overhead into a system. Single payer. Say it LOUD, and say it proud!
January 12, 2009 5:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
p.s. Can't argue with your assertion that "The best care will always be reserved (as it is now) who can pay super-premium rates or out of pocket."
January 12, 2009 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Strange thing is, however, that it's well known that sometimes the very rich and very famous, while having money for superior care, don't really get it. Because their very fame and wealth may lead the medical team to disregard what might be done for your average person.
I know of a wealthy individual, very suicidal, head of a huge local corporation, who was treated at home. A therapist went to his home... on a daily basis. Even over the weekend. After a few days, on a Monday, I believe, the patient was not there for the early am appointment. The patient was floating in the little lake in front of his home.
Your average patient would have been admitted to a psych hospital. Not the rich guy! See, he got personal care. Didn't even have to go to it. It came to him.
This is the kind of tragedy that the most expensive care can lead to.
Ooops!
January 12, 2009 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds like a misdiagnosis on the doctor apparently. Wealthy people get checked into rehab/wards all the time -- and as you know, those facilities are much nicer than where the rest of us would have to go.
Your conclusion (wealth doesn't 100% guarantee perfect diagnoses) is correct. So what? Nothing in life is a guarantee. Wealth really shifts the odds in your favor of better treatment, thank you very much.
January 12, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, many of the top specialists have simply chosen to not take insurance. I would imagine this is more prevalent in places like Manhattan as opposed to less-populated/less-affluent areas, but I don't really know.
And not just physicians top in their field, but many health related professions as well. My son's OT works three hours in the office where we see her a week (the only time she takes insurance) and the rest of the time works privately with clients who pay her in full. She's been amazed that she hasn't lost any patients due to the economy. But it's not cheap to hire her, and she works something like 50-60 hour weeks. The reason? Insurance companies often take, 3, 4, 5 months to pay out one claim to her.
Many of the top specialists charge fees for service that are prohibitively high to those who don't have extra thousands to toss around, another way better health care favors the wealthy.
January 13, 2009 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Health care outcomes depend on more than the average amount of money invested in care. For instance, there's the unevenness of care over one's lifetime. In a system where your coverage changes, there's a real risk that in the middle of a period where you're uncovered or poorly covered, a big health hit happens.
If you get hit in that window - changing jobs, moving cities, family breakdown, difficult childbirth, etc. - then, while the overall average level of spending on your care might look good, your outcome might be lousy.
So lifelong continuity, guaranteed minimum levels of care, comprehensive geographic coverage - these things are important. Which means, it is entirely possible that middle-class citizens could end up with fewer dollars being invested in their care - which might look like an averaging "down" - and yet get better outcomes.
January 12, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I so remember, quinn, giving birth to my son in Toronto. Once I was home, a visiting nurse came by, to check on me and the baby, to make sure all was well. Had we not had a pediatrician, we could have gone to the well-baby clinic in a nearby church hall (or something) for his shots and check-ups.
One payer health care allows for a seamless system that doesn't let people fall through the cracks.
We love Canada! Our son has 3 nationalities.
January 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Thera; My only advice to your son... Just make sure he knows to line up on the Northern side of the border when it comes to our periodic violent conflicts. i.e. Canada-USA hockey games.
My 2 American sibs both work in health (neither drawn South by that, but by spouses.) Cranial-facial & pharmaceutical "research." They love the land, the people, and a great deal about their work. But they (repeatedly) come home and just say about the system... "it's nuts." They see the enormously skilled & caring people on the front-lines, but also... corporate-driven management that drives decisions around dumping less-well-off people... and which looks to make $$$ by cannibalizing other parts of the system, through means both fair & foul.
In short, neither of them believe their jobs would be in any way necessary in a differently-designed system; but, as it is, both of them are "essential."
January 12, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The most expensive care is NOT necessarily the best care. Just sayin...
January 12, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is true, but in my experience I would certainly bet in that direction. Just as private lawfirm attorneys aren't all better than public reps... but I would rather a private lawfirm than a public rep on average.
January 12, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
While not specifcally related to medications, I highly recommend this post just up on Medicare for All:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/the_facilitatrix/2009/01/a-healthy-country-needs-health.php
January 12, 2009 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok overall a nice and accurate read. Except for one glaring inaccuracy that you seem to eat whole after Christopher Lanning.
Social Anxiety is actually a real disease and there is nothing at all made up about it. And it's not an extreme version of shyness but an anxiety disorder that has shyness as a symptom. So it's a specific form of anxiety and not a new disease. Although it was used as such in the marketing of drugs. Which brings me to another point that you seem to have missed and that's the fact that the drugs marketed for SA (the SRRI & SNRI) are only about 20% more effective than placebo! Which isn't all that impressive for a drug. A drug that helped people with a heart disease 20% of the time more than placebo wouldn't be accepted.
Meanwhile older drugs like Benzodiazepine & MAO-inhibitors are marketed as possibly being addictive and dangerous while they show a marked superiority over the other drugs.
This is of course because the patents for the Benzos & MAOIs have expired. While the drug companies are still "improving" the SRRIs and thus able to extend their patents.
Just wanted to point this out because there are a lot of social anxiety sufferers out there who actually wouldn't argue this point because well, they're afraid of people, literary. The disease is being used to make patents not made up to create patents. Patents that are for drugs that work for a minority of the patients.
January 13, 2009 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the info Skaz. I think what the linked article/book regarding social anxiety was getting at was more the marketing of a new disease and the financial windfall that extends to the manufacturers. My apologies if I misrepresented that. Good point about the expired patents and the positioning of new/more expensive/patent protected drugs to garner more market share. Sorry you weren't here for more discussion when this post was more active.
January 14, 2009 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
If anybody comes by here again, here is a link to an article dated 1-11-09 in the NYT regarding lax FDA oversight during clinical trials.
January 14, 2009 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just like you have been demonstrating for a week Miguel. They are all in bed together giving each other massages.
But that is so Republican. Get government off of the backs of the capitalists so they can make more money to the detriment of everybody else.
January 14, 2009 1:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Vib...I mean massagers... yeah... You've got that covered.
January 14, 2009 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink