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Why Obama Voted Against Roberts


With all the discussion recently around "empathy" and Obama, I thought people would be interested to read an excerpt from Sen. Obama's floor statement in 2005 explaining why he would not vote for Roberts.

"The problem I face - a problem that has been voiced by some of my other colleagues, both those who are voting for Mr. Roberts and those who are voting against Mr. Roberts--is that while adherence to legal precedent and rules of statutory or constitutional construction will dispose of 95% of the cases that come before a court, so that both a Scalia and a Ginsburg will arrive at the same place most of the time on those 95% of the cases--what matters on the Supreme Court is those 5% of cases that are truly difficult.

In those cases, adherence to precedent and rules of construction and interpretation will only get you through the 25th mile of the marathon.  The last mile can only be determined on the basis of one's deepest values, one's core concerns, one's broader perspective on how the world works, and the depth and breadth of one's empathy.

In those 5% of hard cases, the constitutional text will not be directly on point.  The language of the statute will not be perfectly clear.  Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of decision.  In those circumstances, your decisions about whether affirmative action is an appropriate response to the history of discrimination in this country, or whether a general right of privacy encompasses a more specific right of women to control their reproductive decisions, or whether the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to speak on those issues of broad national concern that may be only tangentially related to what is easily defined as interstate commerce, whether a person who is disabled has the right to be accomodated so they can work alongside those who are nondisabled--in those difficult cases, the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge's heart."

Obama goes on to say "the problem I had is that when I examined Judge Roberts' record and history of public service, it is my personal estimation that he has far more often used his formidable skills on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak.  In his work in the White House and the Solicitor General's Office, he seemed to have consistently sided with those who were dismissive of efforts to eradicate the remnants of racial discrimination in our political process.  In these same positions, he seemed dismissive of the concerns that it is harder to make it in this world and in this economy when you are a woman rather than a man."



38 Comments

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Thanks for printing this! Yeah Obama! What a great mind!

Too bad he lost on Alito and Robertson, but his judgement was truly sound.

Appreciate your bringing this up, MCB!

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Quite hypocritical to call me a phony and then appreciate something that I shared.

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Great quote. It gives support to Obama's desire to bring some gender balance to the court (if you can consider 2 women and 7 mena s some kind of balance).

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I'm all for having a more balanced bench. But does a female justice necessarily have to rule in favor of women? Can't we have judges who aren't looking out for one particular class, whether that's men, women, blacks, latinos, catholics, etc? Obama's statement above sounds alot like Sotomayor's comment about "reaching a better conclusion than a white male..."

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So are you suggesting being "dismissive" of these considerations is the better course? I believe it is important to consider these factors, but how much weight it should carry will depend on the circumstance. I sincerely doubt Sotomayor has achieved as much as she has by handing a latino friendly verdict every time there are cross racial cases involving Latinos. It sounds hysterical to me to assume she did or she will.

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Did I suggest being dismissive? No. But it shouldn't be the basis for Obama's decision that Roberts hasn't done enough to help overturn the injustice in the world.

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Then we will disagree. I do value fairness. I do not believe someone with advantage should lose merely because they are brought to court. However, I believe that all things being equal, it is better to favor the underdog then the one who has the greater advantage. That is why there is need for courts. Otherwise, we may as well ignore circumstances where the advantaged exploit those less so. What's the point? It's a free market and the advantaged have the advantage so they are entitled to step on whomever they choose. They earned it, right?

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No, they haven't earned the right to break the law. Hopefully impartial lawyers will see that and be fair to both sides.

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Impartial lawyers or judges? Lawyers are partial once hired. The could lawyers can be objective, however, and know when to take a case and when to recommend something else.

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that was a typo. I meant judges, not lawyers

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Yeah, I knew that, but it's fun to tease you sometimes. :-{)>

I would hope all judges could be impartial, although I doubt anyone can be completely removed from themselves to judge anything perfectly. I do, however, see some are better at it then others.

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"on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak"

Yes, an important criterion. I wonder is Sotomayor truly ranks high on this (in opposition to the strong being favored over the weak), in her actual judicial record. I've read that she doesn't seem to favor the weak.

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...in her actual judicial record. I've read that she doesn't seem to favor the weak.
Does this mean that you've not actually read any of Sotomayor's judicial decisions, and are only restating the analysis of others, or was this written poorly?

Over the last week or so, I've read several of Sotomayor's opinions, and have quickly scanned through several more. I've looked at the controversies and outcomes of a few others. Sotomayor has been remarkably conservative (in the classic sense) in her appellate decisions, carefully adhering to existing court precedence, and deference to legislative acts. She has not shown any strong ideological tilt. Even her cases that the right points out as being wrongfully decided are not clear.

Ricci dealt with great conflicts within Title VII jurisprudence and legislation. Sotomayor simply sided with the New Haven city council who decided that the test probably had structural flaws in it, which were unfair to racial minorities because the outcome of the testing was heavily skewed racially. New Haven had to deal with the unenviable decision of certifying the test and faing a racial disparity lawsuit, or not certifying the test, and facing a racial disparity lawsuit. Since the New Haven city council's certification was a part of the promotion process, it's hard to see where any valid claim of actual harm can be proven as fact by the plaintiffs, since they never had their promotions officially verified.

In aout 400 appellate decisions, Sotomayor has ben overturned 3 times by SCOTUS. She is really a blank book as to how she'll decide as a SCOTUS Justice, as well as being vocal and strong-willed, so won't be easily swayed by others.

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"I've read that she doesn't seem to favor the weak."

I don't know what you cannot understand about that simple phrasing, PCA.

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Here's the complete transcript of Obama's statement on the nomination of John Roberts, given on the Senate floor, September 22, 2005, including a link to the document on the Government Printing Office's servers, and with paragraph breaks properly formatted.

Congressional Daily Record: September 22, 2005 (Senate)
Pages S10365-S10366, DOCID:cr22se05-143


Nomination Of John Roberts

Mr. Obama: Mr. President, thank you very much.

First of all, let me congratulate Senator Specter and Senator Leahy for moving the process of confirming the nomination of Judge Roberts along with such civility, a civility that I believe speaks well of the Senate.

Let me also say that I remain distressed that the White House during this confirmation process, which overall went smoothly, failed to provide critical documents as part of the record that could have provided us with a better basis to make our judgment with respect to the nomination. This White House continues to stymie efforts on the part of the Senate to do its job. I hope with the next nominee who comes up for the Supreme Court that the White House recognizes that in fact it is its duty not just to the Senate but to the American people to make sure we can thoroughly and adequately evaluate the record of every single nominee who comes before us.

Having said that, the decision with respect to Judge Roberts' nomination has not been an easy one for me to make. As some of you know, I have not only argued cases before appellate courts but for 10 years was a member of the University of Chicago Law School faculty and taught courses in constitutional law. Part of the culture of the University of Chicago Law School faculty is to maintain a sense of collegiality between those people who hold different views. What engenders respect is not the particular outcome that a legal scholar arrives at but, rather, the intellectual rigor and honesty with which he or she arrives at a decision.

Given that background, I am sorely tempted to vote for Judge Roberts based on my study of his resume, his conduct during the hearings, and a conversation I had with him yesterday afternoon.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind Judge Roberts is qualified to sit on the highest court in the land. Moreover, he seems to have the comportment and the temperament that makes for a good judge. He is humble, he is personally decent, and he appears to be respectful of different points of view. It is absolutely clear to me that Judge Roberts truly loves the law. He couldn't have achieved his excellent record as an advocate before the Supreme Court without that passion for the law, and it became apparent to me in our conversation that he does, in fact, deeply respect the basic precepts that go into deciding 95 percent of the cases that come before the Federal court--adherence to precedence, a certain modesty in reading statutes and constitutional text, a respect for procedural regularity, and an impartiality in presiding over the adversarial system. All of these characteristics make me want to vote for Judge Roberts.

The problem I face--a problem that has been voiced by some of my other colleagues, both those who are voting for Mr. Roberts and those who are voting against Mr. Roberts--is that while adherence to legal precedent and rules of statutory or constitutional construction will dispose of 95 percent of the cases that come before a court, so that both a Scalia and a Ginsburg will arrive at the same place most of the time on those 95 percent of the cases--what matters on the Supreme Court is those 5 percent of cases that are truly difficult. In those cases, adherence to precedent and rules of construction and interpretation will only get you through the 25th mile of the marathon. That last mile can only be determined on the basis of one's deepest values, one's core concerns, one's broader perspectives on how the world works, and the depth and breadth of one's empathy.

In those 5 percent of hard cases, the constitutional text will not be directly on point. The language of the statute will not be perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of decision. In those circumstances, your decisions about whether affirmative action is an appropriate response to the history of discrimination in this country or whether a general right of privacy encompasses a more specific right of women to control their reproductive decisions or whether the commerce clause empowers Congress to speak on those issues of broad national concern that may be only tangentially related to what is easily defined as interstate commerce, whether a person who is disabled has the right to be accommodated so they can work alongside those who are nondisabled--in those difficult cases, the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge's heart.

I talked to Judge Roberts about this. Judge Roberts confessed that, unlike maybe professional politicians, it is not easy for him to talk about his values and his deeper feelings. That is not how he is trained. He did say he doesn't like bullies and has always viewed the law as a way of evening out the playing field between the strong and the weak.

I was impressed with that statement because I view the law in much the same way. The problem I had is that when I examined Judge Roberts' record and history of public service, it is my personal estimation that he has far more often used his formidable skills on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak. In his work in the White House and the Solicitor General's Office, he seemed to have consistently sided with those who were dismissive of efforts to eradicate the remnants of racial discrimination in our political process. In these same positions, he seemed dismissive of the concerns that it is harder to make it in this world and in this economy when you are a woman rather than a man.

I want to take Judge Roberts at his word that he doesn't like bullies and he sees the law and the Court as a means of evening the playing field between the strong and the weak. But given the gravity of the position to which he will undoubtedly ascend and the gravity of the decisions in which he will undoubtedly participate during his tenure on the Court, I ultimately have to give more weight to his deeds and the overarching political philosophy that he appears to have shared with those in power than to the assuring words that he provided me in our meeting.

The bottom line is this: I will be voting against John Roberts' nomination. I do so with considerable reticence. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that this reticence on my part proves unjustified and that Judge Roberts will show himself to not only be an outstanding legal thinker but also someone who upholds the Court's historic role as a check on the majoritarian impulses of the executive branch and the legislative branch. I hope that he will recognize who the weak are and who the strong are in our society. I hope that his jurisprudence is one that stands up to the bullies of all ideological stripes.

Let me conclude with just one more comment about this confirmation process.

I was deeply disturbed by some statements that were made by largely Democratic advocacy groups when ranking member Senator Leahy announced that he would support Judge Roberts. Although the scales have tipped in a different direction for me, I am deeply admiring of the work and the thought that Senator Leahy has put into making his decision. The knee- jerk unbending and what I consider to be unfair attacks on Senator Leahy's motives were unjustified. Unfortunately, both parties have fallen victim to this kind of pressure.

I believe every Senator on the other side of the aisle, if they were honest, would acknowledge that the same unyielding, unbending, dogmatic approach to judicial confirmation has in large part been responsible for the kind of poisonous atmosphere that exists in this Chamber regarding judicial nominations. It is tempting, then, for us on this side of the aisle to go tit for tat.

But what I would like to see is for all of us to recognize as we move forward to the next nominee that in fact the issues that are confronted by the Supreme Court are difficult issues. That is why they get up to the Supreme Court. The issues facing the Court are rarely black and white, and all advocacy groups who have a legitimate and profound interest in the decisions that are made by the Court should try to make certain that their advocacy reflects that complexity. These groups on the right and left should not resort to the sort of broad-brush dogmatic attacks that have hampered the process in the past and constrained each and every Senator in this Chamber from making sure that they are voting on the basis of their conscience.

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Not a big secret at all. I took it from the article in the paper yesterday.

Are you implying that my "misformatting" was misleading? I believe I included all the relevant parts. The entire transcript was too long to include the entire thing. If it was too long I didn't think people would bother to read it

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Thanks, P.

Mr. Bill, is there a point to telling us what we already knew?

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What did you already know? Not until I read this did I appreciate that Obama is more concerned with someone's ability to relate with the downtrodden than their ability to be fair and impartial.

I learned something from reading it. That's why I decided to share it with the group. If you didn't, that's fine.

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Care to share with us, where you actually acquired the misformatted excerpt, or is that a big secret?

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Actually, what the excerpt you highlighted said is that in 5% of the instances where a judge must make a determination, there will be no defined legal answer - that the judge must rule based on their core instincts and beliefs. That's what judges are for - that's what they do.

In the case of Roberts, apparently in every instance where it came down to core beliefs - Roberts invariably made determinations that benefited the powerful at the expense of the weak. Either there was an amazing coincidence where the impartial decision favored rich, powerful, white litigants in every case - or Roberts' record is clearly showing bias. That seems a fair assessment.

Obama was simply being diplomatic in pointing out Roberts' record showed prejudice. Hell! The guy swore an oath to the Federalist Society promising to implement their political objectives from the bench - how much more biased can you get?

Sotomayor's record simply doesn't indicate a bias toward any specific demographic. PCA has presented a pretty good review of her record from his point of view. What in her record shows the questionable criticism over Ricci can be construed as part of a pattern? I can see a valid case for Robert's decisions having bias - what's the case against Sototmayor in this regard?

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I think you summarize it quite well, kgb

Thanks for taking the time to post this Bill.

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Silly you, don't you know it's only bias if it happens to negatively impact a white male in some fashion?


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The obvious coyness annoyed me---when you have an argument, make it.

When the law can't provide an obvious technical answer, judges use judgment. Justice Breyer wrote a book on the subject.

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Coy? I simply cited the speech. You judge his words for yourself. Judgement is one thing. Looking out for certain causes is another. Judgement doesn't always have to favor people you perceive to have been treated unjustly.

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Nice Post Bill. Thanks for sharing.

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It's simple - Obama voted against Roberts by claiming that Roberts displayed the WRONG KIND OF EMPATHY.

According to Obama, 95% of cases are decided in agreement, but 5% are decided on empathy because they are too unclear or uncertain otherwise.

But these 5% also happen to be, by definition, the most complex and likely important, given the lack of clarity and agreement.

So instead of collective effort to understand what the law actually means (hello, is this Supereme Court or a ultra-partisan TPM chat room?), Obama is essentially encouraging, endorsing and promoting the class ideology interpretation - poor vs rich (or, rather, "weak" vs "strong" in his bizarre word choice)...

Which leads to picking on basis of "empathy" rather than record. Which leads to the class struggle at every public institution, including those that are supposed to be the most impartial and independent.

I have no beef to grind with Sotomayor but it's clear that Obama's views on SCOTUS have nothing to do with the actual law.

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There are members of SCOTUS who have wondered if Robert's version of impartiality really amounts to the universal applicability of law. There is an overview of Roberts in the New Yorker by Jeffrey Toobin that nicely addresses the matter:

In the most famous passage so far of his tenure as Chief Justice, Roberts wrote, “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
Roberts’s opinion drew an incredulous dissent from Stevens, who said that the Chief Justice’s words reminded him of “Anatole France’s observation” that the “majestic equality” of the law forbade “rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” For dozens of years, the Court had drawn a clear distinction between laws that kept black students out of white schools (which were forbidden) and laws that directed black and white students to study together (which were allowed); Roberts’s decision sought to eliminate that distinction and, more generally, called into question whether any race-conscious actions by government were still constitutional. “It is my firm conviction that no Member of the Court that I joined in 1975 would have agreed with today’s decision,” Stevens concluded.

So maybe the issue is not about whether the law can address some percentage of cases or not but whether the demand for "majestic equality" is really as unbiased as the blindfolded lady is supposed to represent.

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“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”

Wow. And the Courts and Congress should have no role to play in ending discrimination by individuals and institutions who won't do it voluntarily?? Let's just throw out the Bill of Rights, who needs it anyway since we're all so enlightened, Mr. Justice.

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Word.

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I don't see what you are getting at. This is the whole relevant passage:

In those cases, adherence to precedent and rules of construction and interpretation will only get you through the 25th mile of the marathon. The last mile can only be determined on the basis of one's deepest values, one's core concerns, one's broader perspective on how the world works, and the depth and breadth of one's empathy.

It sounds like he's advocating taking "adherence to precedent and rules of construction and interpretation" as far as they will possibly go. Are you saying that you don't believe there will ever be a circumstance where these tools alone would be insufficient?

If those tools prove insufficient, isn't Obama really just making an observation of truth? The construction explicitly states that all common tools to determine "what the law means" have already been exhausted. What, other than one's own beliefs and world view, empathy if you will, would exist at that point to guide a decision?

I also think it's unfair to take a construction presented as a basis for analysis and rejection of Roberts and construe the corollary (inverse) as the criterion that would be the basis for approval. Based on Obama's statements, an ideologue that was dismissive of the rights of the powerful could also very well disqualify themselves.

One other critique of your critique .... what do the following circumstances have in common:

Oil Tycoon vs. Oil Field Worker
City Council President Vs. Citizen
General vs. Private

The only common denominator is that one side of the equation has power and one does not. Someone who is unable to detect and correctly categorize classes should not be selecting a supreme court justice. If you can look at list of cases and predict what a Judge's selections would be based on the nature of the litigants, that is a problem. Obama indicated that this was the case with Roberts, and he was likely correct.

Lord knows, I'm no fan of Obama at this stage; but one should be fair. Sotomayor sure does seem to decide in favor of both the weak and the powerful. If Obama's criteria was really as you make it out to be, that wouldn't be the case.

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Interesting. Of course this statement was made way back when Obama was interested in appearing liberal as opposed to his current centrist/postpartisan self. I'm glad he voted against Roberts, a man who has no business whatsoever on the Supreme Court because he is and always has been a supreme partisan hack. But I'm not sure that Obama's statement has a whole lot of relevance today.

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So, you're saying there's no difference between Sotomayor and John Roberts, or between Sotomayor and a McCain nominee?

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Nope. I'm saying nothing of the kind. I think what I wrote was pretty straighforward and clear. How you concluded that I don't know.

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MCB, I just want to say, "Good for you" for making a blog-post. I have criticized you in the past for just posting comments, and I am glad to see that you are taking the risk/time to put a blog together. I know it isn't easy to do that at a place where 90% of us disagree with you.

In fact, my comment (#1 here) was pure snark. I knew you posted this to criticize Obama, and I heartily praised the very statements you put in to show how terrible he is. -- Just wanted to get that straight.

I disagree with 99.99% (added that last 9 right before submitting) of everything you say, but I will defend to ....oh, well, I just want to say that it's good to have an alternate view from time to time; keeps us aware of the talking points, etc. I also know that it takes a certain level of courage to do it. So bravo, MCB!

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If you hadn't been so consistently rude over the past several months, I would accept your kind words. But you just like to insult me. I don't think I've treated you that way. It's fine to disagree with others' views but try doing it in a constructive way.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/mageduley/2009/06/finally-olbermann-calls-for-qu.php#comment-3486710

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OK, I take it back

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Feel free to continue your insulting ways. Sticks and stones...

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Great quote. It gives support to Obama's desire to bring some gender balance to the court (if you can consider 2 women and 7 mena s some kind of balance).

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