Continuation of "alternate points of view" discussion from Brad DeLong's post
So as not to hijack further Brad DeLong's post, I've started this post for additional comment, though it remains to be seen if anyone cares to make one or not! See the beginning of the discussion here:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/bookclub/2007/oct/30/i_think_paul_krugman_is_wrong
My last comment:
Again, keep in mind that I only post about things where I think groupthink needs a breath of air from outside. (Some call it trolling, I won't deny it bears some resemblances to it, but I'm not JUST stirring the pot.)For instance, I've never posted about gay marriage. I'm for it, I think it's historically inevitable and it's humanely right, I'm clearly left of the Democratic party on that-- and the only interesting point I have to make would be about how ineptly it's been handled from a political point of view. So why post about that so ten other people here can agree with me? Nobody's learning anything from that. I should go post it at Free Republic or something and be the resident pinko there, instead of the resident wingnut here.
Now back to Prof. DeLong, who must be wondering what the hell happened to his subject here. Sorry, sometimes things that have been brewing for a while hop to the latest thread, regardless of subject.
I'm for it, I think it's historically inevitable and it's humanely right, I'm clearly left of the Democratic party on that-- and the only interesting point I have to make would be about how ineptly it's been handled from a political point of view. So why post about that so ten other people here can agree with me? Nobody's learning anything from that.....
Actually, people do learn from that. They learn that you're not a bat-shit crazy Republican. Or a troll.
You're sort of making an assumption that people should simply take your word when you say you're a liberal. If this were a weekly, face-to-face get together, that might work. We could see how you dress, see the "Obama 08" pin you're wearing, see how you react to other people's comments. Etc.
But in the medium of blogs, we don't have any of those non-verbal cues. All we have is what you say here in the blog to go by.
And, all you seem to have to say is negative things about Democrats and liberals.
And then you wonder why people don't trust you to be a liberal?
Just because you declare yourself to be a "Kennedy liberal," and, quite frankly, I have no idea what that even means..., that doesn't mean you automatically gain the trust of everyone else.
(Note -- and I see someone has "not recommended" this post already -- kind of proves my point...I don't see any reason to "not rec" this post.)
October 31, 2007 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're sort of making an assumption that people should simply take your word when you say you're a liberal. If this were a weekly, face-to-face get together, that might work. We could see how you dress, see the "Obama 08" pin you're wearing, see how you react to other people's comments. Etc.
You're sort of making an assumption that I have to prove myself to the right crowd before I'm allowed to speak here, aren't you? What does that say about what TPM Cafe has devolved into?
I'll ask Ax for a button the next time I see him, and maybe an autographed picture, too.
a "Kennedy liberal," and, quite frankly, I have no idea what that even means...
If you really don't know what liberalism was prior to about 1968, perhaps you should remedy that.
that doesn't mean you automatically gain the trust of everyone else.
I'm not looking to be trusted.
I'm looking to not be silenced by a thuggish misuse of the rating system which the management of the site apparently chooses to do nothing to prevent.
October 31, 2007 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are liberators, but folks who downrate you are thugs. I get it.
And stop splitting your infinitives.
October 31, 2007 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right on both counts, I'm rather surprised to say.
When all the other mistakes and stupidities are forgotten, the joy of watching Saddam dangle, the myth of the Arab strongman, the risen Saladin, brought to a tawdry end and recorded on a cell phone camera, will ring throughout history.
War's like that; no one remembers how Lincoln went through McClellan, Halleck and all the others who couldn't fight, they just remember that he ended with Grant, and Grant ended slavery.
October 31, 2007 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that second paragraph tells me everything I need to know about your values.
November 1, 2007 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed, and not ashamed to favor the decisive act over the piously correct posture.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
November 1, 2007 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
JeffC said it so well, I can only add this: You amuse me, accusing an atheist of piety, but using Mr. Jefferson's statement about American rebellion to defend a ginned-up war for profit comes pretty close to sacrilege.
November 2, 2007 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're sort of making an assumption that I have to prove myself to the right crowd before I'm allowed to speak here, aren't you? What does that say about what TPM Cafe has devolved into?
Max, you're showing your ignorance about what online communities and online interactions are about.
It hasn't "devolved" into anything -- what I am describing is something that's inherent to online interaction. It's different than face-to-face, and you cannot expect the same social behvoirs, norms, and other factors to carry over directly.
You should do some reading on this topic. I can make suggestions, if you're interested.
If you really don't know what liberalism was prior to about 1968, perhaps you should remedy that.
It's 2007.
I'm not looking to be trusted.
And then you won't be. Which is perfect for you, because apparently you're obviously not interested in making honest contributions to this site.
But thank you for making your intentions crystal clear to us, finally.
November 1, 2007 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have been entirely honest in what I've said here.
I just haven't agreed with you.
How Orwellian that you conflate the two. That is what TPMCafe has devolved into-- from its stated goals of an openminded progressive forum to a place where dissent from orthodoxy is rooted out and branded as "dishonesty."
As I've said many times in regards to this sort of thing, good luck winning in a general election with that attitude, smacking of the worst old school leftist splintering and purging.
November 1, 2007 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Except you're the only one Enlightened enough to see this, right? We're all wrong, and you, the lone pillar of honest progressive values, striving to open up all our eyes to the hidden regime of orthodoxy, with which we're all fooling ourselves.
You truly have our best interests at heart.
Please, stop with the righteousness.
It's laughable.
November 2, 2007 8:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don;t claim to be right about anything. I just claim to have my opinions, and that they have a right to be treated according to the rules, which are:
(Emphasis added.)
You can disagree with my opinion, mock it, as much as you like. But when you try to silence it you are not a member of the community whose trust I have to earn, but a violator of the rules of the community who has abused that trust.
So no, I'm not the only one Enlightened enough to see this. It is quite simply stated in the rules, however unwilling the management of this site (if any) may be in enforcing them. And the more you fight what is plainly stated, the more it reveals about you and your attitudes toward free speech and other points of view.
November 2, 2007 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink