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Where Keith Olbermann Gets it Wrong


I watched Keith Olbermann's special comment from last night on Youtube, as I was too busy wrapping Passover to watch the show.

While I generally agree with him, I find him powerful even when I disagree with him, or find his conclusions lacking, as was the case last night, and I'm not referring to the Kaiser thing.*


In this case, I believe that KO did not go far enough.

While he is correct that letting people off for "just following orders", as is implied by the statements that those , "carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice," will not be subject to prosecution.

This is wrong, and there is a bigger point, made ably by Glenn Greenwald, that there is a real and legalally binding obligation obligation under the Convention Against Torture, which was signed in 1988 and ratified in 1994, to actively pursue and prosecute torturers ( roll Article 7 para 7):
The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
This is not to say that refraining from after the little fish to target the big fish is a violation of this.

That is a legitimate prosecution strategy.

However, it increasingly appears that President Obama and Attorney General Holder do not intend to go after anyone, and in so doing, they are, but not going after anyone, witht he explanation that this is, "moving forward".

This is a obstruction of the prosecution of these actsis a war crime, and if this means no prosecution, it is an affirmative act to obstruct the course of justice.

Certainly, there are alternate venues, such as some sort of "Truth and Reconciliation Commission," but all indications are that the White House are fighting even this weak tea.

I bwelieve that, in the absence for support for some sort of fact official fact finding process, it makes Eric Holder and Barack Obama accessories after the fact to a crime against humanity.

In the short form, people who actively work to subvert any process of judicial or semi-judicial fact finding inquiry, outside of the context of legitimate activities of defense counsel, are war criminals, including the current President and Attorney General of the United States of America if they choose to continue this course.

That being, said, I am an engineer, not a lawyer, dammit, and I would be interested in hearing opinions from people with a deeper knowledge of both US and international law.

*The Kaiser commited no war crimes by the standards of the day, notwithstanding the accusations of amputation Belgian babies hands made in the early days of the war. The rules had not yet caught up with the technology of war, and if the Kaiser were guilty, than every participant in the war would have been guilty.
Ironically, the Belgians, during the genocide phase of their rule over what was then the Belgian Congo DID require their native levees to return a human hand for each bullet fired, in order to prevent them from "wasting" bullets hunting game for food, along with holding families hostage, etc.
I LOVE IT when I get to go all Doctor McCoy!!!

Cross posted from 40 Years in the Desert.

15 Comments

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Again, I am not a lawyer, but I think that shirking their duty on this is literally criminal.

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Dunno about "shirking" but if you don't overstate a case it sometimes gets a better reception.

Obama's position on change -- best done from the bottom up. So keep up the grass roots pressure, and keep moving it up the political "food chain"! Obama might be the last one to change but I don't believe he's shirking.

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Let me recommend Spell Check.
I also recommend prosecuting the war criminals, all of them.

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You know, I'm beginning to think this whole idea of indicting and prosecuting the former administration on this issue is just fucking ridiculous. Every time something comes out regarding this issue people start running around going AAAAAHHHHH, LA La La ALA ALA ALA ALA!!!! Have you at once thought that this issue might need to be addressed by methodical process? Have you thought of the scope of undertaking this task (indicting a former POTUS, dragging him into court, bringing charges against him)? Hell, that alone would suck the oxygen out of any other agenda Obama may want to pursue. And now you're suggesting that Obama is a criminal? You sound like a GOP troll. Was this issue the only reason you voted for Obama? If not, maybe you should work for/or be an activist for positions you and him share and give the bigger fish a little more time to cook.

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One very clear and easy way to allow prosecutions to go forward is to have an international tribunal, such as the one that prosecuted the Serbian war crimes, indict Bush, et al and then have them extradited to stand trial. Frnakly, I would much prefer that to having it be a purely American affair. The most egregious crimes of the Bush years were clear, unambiguous war crimes and crimes againt humanity all of which were ordered explicitly from the top. The most appropriate venue for Bushco to go on trial would be in the Hague.

The very idea that because it is difficult we are excused from our legal and moral duty to prosecute these criminals is abhorrent. Perhaps, we need to learn a lesson from the English who tried and executed a King for his tyranny and abuse of power to assert the power of the people through the Parliament. It was not an easy thing to accomplish and it took courage and resolve to carry out. Nonetheless, they have been much better off ever since.

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I'm not saying that we are excused from holding people accountable but, that Obama's method for dealing with this may be slower and more methodical than some would prefer. Also, that if his administration were to pursue this full steam at this point it would be all consuming and distract from other issues like Healthcare reform which I find more pressing.
Lastly, (and I commented on another post regarding this) is there any chance he's keeping these memos, and the threat of criminal investigations, as an ace in the hole to manipulate Senate Republicans?

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I understand your point. It's just that the more obvious and realisitc explanation is that Obama's position is what it appears to be: a dodge of his responsiblity and a political move to avoid upsetting a pack of criminals.

I doubt very much that all the speculation about how Obama may have an unseen and/or unspoken strategy is to do the right thing. In fact, I think that whole line of thinking is pretty weird to be perfectly frank. I don't understand why people think that when Obama does something that is wrong, that it really is all part of a very clever strategy of doing the opposite. There's just nothing by way of evidence to support such far fetched conclusions. I wish that there were, but there isn't.

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I'm not seeing how your conclusion is more "realistic" and "obvious". In fact, both of us are speculating as to his motives and how he ultimately plans to handle this situation. I'm not following your reasoning on why he would rather disappoint his constituency rather than upset criminals. This makes no sense as he'll ultimately be held accountable by the voters. OTH, he may have fucked up but, I'm willing to let it play out a little bit more and give him the benefit of the doubt....for now. He hasn't been in office long enough, and this particular issue lingered long enough under his tenure for me to have developed the hardened cynicism to give up on him yet. I'd say 6 mos. If the torture issue hasn't been dealt with to my satisfaction by then, then he has some splainin' to do.

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I'm basing my conjecture on what he has actually said and what has been said by his people in the administration as opposed to a wish or desire that he might actually be intending something other than what they have made clear is his position on all this. That is the difference. There is absolutely no reason to suspect Obama intends differently than the statements that have been made by him and on his behalf. Those statements go something like this: there will be no prosecutions of anyone at CIA. We will not be conducting any investigations about torture and instead we will "look forward". Based on what he has said and what his people have said, the President has no intention at all of even calling for an investigation into any of the crimes perpetrated under Bush.

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I acknowledge the evidence behind your conjecture but I don't believe this is over.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/claim-obama-didnt-really-rule-out-prosecution-of-torture-officials/

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Yes, I know. But the truth is that is nothing but a hope. Again, no evidence at all that there's a plan to do anything other than refuse to pursue any of these matters. When there is an affirmative indication from the White House of something different then there would be reason to put some stock in this hope. But right now, grasping at the fact that they haven't explicitly ruled out a possibility for action doesn't mean much. Time will tell and from this point in time it doesn't look as though there's much hope for any change in course.

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"if this means no prosecution, it is an affirmative act to obstruct the course of justice."

I think you are absolutely correct on this. Too bad our Harvard Law School educated President fails to acknowledge this obvious fact and considers the war crimes committed more of a political problem than anything else. He should have listened much closer to Jeremiah Wright who, I am quite sure, would advocate bringing the criminals to justice as required by the law.

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Obama is putting the good of the nation before seeking justice. If he publicly went out and called for Bush and all his flunkies to be arrested and put on trail then he would get nothing done. There isnt a time limit on these crimes you know. Its not like Bush gets a free pass if he passes a certain deadline.

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So you think if this President doesn't do anything then some other President will do so down the road? That seems pretty preposterous and unrealistic.

He isn't doing it for the good of the country at all. He is doing it for his political good. He would not need to call for Bush and his flunkies to be arrested (though that would be nice). He could quite easily and quietly let the professional process of justice go on in the Department of Justice, but instead he is precluding that.

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I just hope they get a better prosecutor than Ken Starr. He couldn't even get Clinton bounced out despite the smoking guns (or dripping guns). Instead the Clintons are still running wild after all the criminality just like Bush and Rove.

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Matthew Saroff

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