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The Juxtaposition of Electrodes and Genitals Is Not the Best Way to Make Friends
So, the Pentagon is reporting that 61 ex-Guantanamo detainees have engaged in terrorism after being released from our Southern Gulag.
Remember, this is under the auspices of the regime established by Bush and His Evil Minions™ that worked from guilty before innocent, accepted torture derived information, and used torture routinely on these folks.
So, the ones that they let go? They were not playahs in terrorism, if they were, they would still be locked up.
On the other hand, when you torture people, if they get out, they tend to take it personally:
We also know that Guantanamo is only a part of the problem. Bagram probably has 10 times as many people that we are mistreating, and a non zero percentage of them, and their friends and family, and their countrymen and coreligionists, will be outraged and moved to action by this.
Cross posted from 40 Years in the Desert.
Remember, this is under the auspices of the regime established by Bush and His Evil Minions™ that worked from guilty before innocent, accepted torture derived information, and used torture routinely on these folks.
So, the ones that they let go? They were not playahs in terrorism, if they were, they would still be locked up.
On the other hand, when you torture people, if they get out, they tend to take it personally:
The Pentagon said on Tuesday that 61 former detainees from its military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, appear to have returned to terrorism since their release from custody.We will be seeing blowback from what we did to these people for years.
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said 18 former detainees are confirmed and 43 suspected of "returning to the fight."
We also know that Guantanamo is only a part of the problem. Bagram probably has 10 times as many people that we are mistreating, and a non zero percentage of them, and their friends and family, and their countrymen and coreligionists, will be outraged and moved to action by this.
Cross posted from 40 Years in the Desert.
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BTW, on occasion, I have read of legal arguments to keep people detained because authorities believe that their torture might incline them to revenge if they are releases....
Gee, ya think?
January 13, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is exactly why we must have a thorough reviewing of wrongdoing done by gwb43 regarding war crimes ie torture , Those guilty must be punished -it is in our national security interest -we must minimize the blowback from this illegal regieme aka bushcheney- I say send OLC Johnsen after Fredo first - break him with a perjury charge -then use the 'general " to work up the neocon food chain - Addington would be next on my list ,
And its not only Bagram that needs attending to -its also any number of black sites in countries like the Phillipines & the "prison ships' said to hold other detainees out on the open seas .
We,as a country , must be seen denouncing & repudiating clearly our recent walk on the Darkside.
January 14, 2009 5:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Juxtaposition--I rec'd this just for the title.
Ya think they may take it personally? I am sick and tired of this crap that only one or now its 3 people ever got tortured by w. Oh well. I';m too mad to write anymore.
January 13, 2009 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
"returned to terrorism"
If they've returned, that assumes they were terrorists from the start. But if they were let go, that assumes they had no reason to believe they were guilty.
Somehow... it sounds as if they are making an erroneous assumption. But it wouldn't be the first time!
January 13, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
People subjected to violence are perpetrating violence. Who saw that coming? Whether they were ever violent before is unknown, thanks to the complete lack of any judicial process.
These perpetrators really have no shame. It's all justified if you mumble 9/11 while you torture them.
January 13, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are problems with the numbers being thrown out by the Pentagon here. They claim that the 61 represents an 11 percent recidivism rate. 61 is 11% of 555. Estimating just from the Pentagon's public reports on the number of detainees held at Guantanmo Bay easily comes up with a number near 700 in the low range. Where are the other 100+ detainees?
It is logical to assume that many of the persons who were detained in Guantanamo were probably actually persons who had engaged in combat against the US or its allies. 11 percent recidivism rate seems to be a very low number.
Also consider that if these persons had truly been "unlawful combatants", and they had not been subjected to interrogation techniques that violate America's due process of law, they could have been rightfully convicted a criminal actors and imprisoned instead of being released.
January 14, 2009 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can really relate to the idea of being shocked in the nuts might make you start looking up some of your old cellmate's friends. Especially if he was a terrorist and you a innocent...
Getting hurt by someone tends to shape your views of that person and those who told him to increase the voltage...So I can totally relate to that.
Perhaps some officials should undergo some "interrogation" to better understand this development? Names anyone?
January 14, 2009 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, crap. I've been doing it all wrong!!
It's funny that people are apparently shocked that innocent people who are unjustly locked up for years with potentially dangerous/crazy/fanatic people potentially seek revenge using the tools of the trade they picked up while incarcerated. Or, for that matter, that even the captured real-life 100% "enemy combatants" might have their resolves hardened and learn new techniques while in a similar situation.
It's not like this doesn't happen in our domestic jails with civilian populations.
January 14, 2009 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, there are web sites about people who use electrodes in intimate consensual settings, but I was referring to non-voluntary infliction of electricity, and in no way do I wish to imply that what two adults do in the privacy of their own home/electricty plant is somehow deserving of disapproval.
Or, as they say in Seinfeld, "Not like there's anything wrong with that."
January 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, you have to wonder about anyone who would willingly undergo that. I've known two victims of that in childhood... so I can imagine that such persons might seek out situations which replicated the trauma. I had no idea people did that consensually. But again.. I'd really wonder how "consensual" it would be if it replicated trauma and the person felt psychologically driven to abase themselves that way.
I'm not gonna get into any arguments over how this might be viewed. Or anyone here condones it. But that's just my personal view. And it's personally upsetting to me that people would seek to do that to anyone or that anyone would tolerate such behavior by someone. Maybe there are waterboarding websites too... horrible to think about.
Mind you, it does not upset me that you wrote that. Just the thought of what it means that people would do that.
This is where torture leads....
January 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Electrodes and Genitals. What a cool name for a rockband! Maybe we can get Larry Craig and the boys to pick up the tambourin again!
January 14, 2009 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
cool name for a rockband
I'm holding out for *The Tasered Assholes.
We are probably only a OLC opinion or two away from the proposition that these men have obviously been driven mad (by our torture...) and so have become obsessed with revenge (for our torture...) and cannot be released (or tried) until they have been hospitalized, psychotropically medicated, and thus, cured (from our torture...)
*I had a buddy, George Tabb, who had a band called "Iron Prostate", which I will submit is the best name ever.
January 14, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I always liked, Surreal Killer for a band name.
January 15, 2009 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
....and the Japanese invented electric toilet seats
January 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink