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40,000 more for Karzai... Recreating Vietnam?
* As recalled by a fly on the White House wall -- 5 weeks ago*
McCHRYSTAL: "You want me to do this, Mr. President?," is what I am saying. "What I need is 40,000 more troops and here's why." If this is the mission, that is what I really need to succeed at it, and I am with great respect giving you the benefit of my sober judgement on the matter.
OBAMA: Yeah, I've got that perspective. Thanks, General. ...So, Gates! You telling me I give 40,000 troops and I get a stable democracy?
GATES: Sorry Mr. President, but that one's mostly for Hillary I believe. All we can do, at most,is provide the military conditions that will allow a properly crafted civilian settlement to take hold, democracy or whatever it may be.
OBAMA: You're not off the hook, Bob, but alright for the moment. ..So what about it Hillary, we get a stable democracy in Afghanistan for 40,000 more troops?
HILLARY: Gosh! Isn't this Bush's war?! {Scattered, nervous laughter} ...Look, it depends on Karzai more than anyone.
BIDEN: General McChrystal, why don't you wait outside. Is that okay with you, Bob, and you, Mr. President?
GATES: Stan, maybe you can go ahead back on over the bridge, and you can stop up in my office later, okay?
OBAMA: {nods}
* Door shuts*
OBAMA: Alright then, what about Karzai, Hillary?
HILLARY: He's actually a schmuck to be honest with you, Mr. President.
OBAMA: {turns and quickly raises his eyebrows to RAHM}
BIDEN {shaking his head}: Total Schmuck!!
OBAMA: And remind us how he got himself in there, Panetta?
PANETTA: Well, it was my Agency, as you know, Mr. President, but Cheney really ran the show.
BIDEN: With Libby, one needn't bother to add.
PANETTA: Kind of like American Idol actually. Talent search kicked up this Karzai guy.
HILLARY: Did he have to denounce Roe v. Wade in order to be named President? Or the Dixie Chicks?
BIDEN: {Chuckles, wanly} We understand, Leon, water under the bridge. Are you saying you support Karzai now?
PANETTA: Uh...no, I can't say that!
OBAMA {to no one}: Can't say that.
BIDEN: So you agree with the schmuck assessment, then Leon? I mean, don't let us put words in your mouth.
PANETTA: Well... creep, maybe. ...Creep, crook. Conman.
HILLARY: All the C words except "Competent."
PANETTA: Conflicted?
RAHM: Corrupt.
OBAMA: Confounding.
BIDEN: Secretary Gates, where does this leave us? If you are saying that the 40,000 troops will succeed only if a guy with those credentials comes through for us, it seems obvious that we've got more work and the 40,000 is not even the real issue here. I mean, does anyone disagree?
OBAMA: Turn up that volume, Joe.
McCAIN, on TV: The President will make the right decision, I know. The point is that *delaying* that decision can put our men and women in further danger. General McChrystal has said what's needed and it's time to act now without delay!
HILLARY {shaking head}: And he's the brainy one, right? Not Palin, but him?
RAHM (cracking a knuckle): What a FUCKWIT!
BIDEN: See, this the thing. This is what I meant about becoming Lyndon Johnson, Mr. President.
OBAMA: I wonder if President Johnson got to read the letters that I do.
GATES: {Eyes rise, meet with Biden's, and lock...}
==========================================================
McCHRYSTAL: "You want me to do this, Mr. President?," is what I am saying. "What I need is 40,000 more troops and here's why." If this is the mission, that is what I really need to succeed at it, and I am with great respect giving you the benefit of my sober judgement on the matter.
OBAMA: Yeah, I've got that perspective. Thanks, General. ...So, Gates! You telling me I give 40,000 troops and I get a stable democracy?
GATES: Sorry Mr. President, but that one's mostly for Hillary I believe. All we can do, at most,is provide the military conditions that will allow a properly crafted civilian settlement to take hold, democracy or whatever it may be.
OBAMA: You're not off the hook, Bob, but alright for the moment. ..So what about it Hillary, we get a stable democracy in Afghanistan for 40,000 more troops?
HILLARY: Gosh! Isn't this Bush's war?! {Scattered, nervous laughter} ...Look, it depends on Karzai more than anyone.
BIDEN: General McChrystal, why don't you wait outside. Is that okay with you, Bob, and you, Mr. President?
GATES: Stan, maybe you can go ahead back on over the bridge, and you can stop up in my office later, okay?
OBAMA: {nods}
* Door shuts*
OBAMA: Alright then, what about Karzai, Hillary?
HILLARY: He's actually a schmuck to be honest with you, Mr. President.
OBAMA: {turns and quickly raises his eyebrows to RAHM}
BIDEN {shaking his head}: Total Schmuck!!
OBAMA: And remind us how he got himself in there, Panetta?
PANETTA: Well, it was my Agency, as you know, Mr. President, but Cheney really ran the show.
BIDEN: With Libby, one needn't bother to add.
PANETTA: Kind of like American Idol actually. Talent search kicked up this Karzai guy.
HILLARY: Did he have to denounce Roe v. Wade in order to be named President? Or the Dixie Chicks?
BIDEN: {Chuckles, wanly} We understand, Leon, water under the bridge. Are you saying you support Karzai now?
PANETTA: Uh...no, I can't say that!
OBAMA {to no one}: Can't say that.
BIDEN: So you agree with the schmuck assessment, then Leon? I mean, don't let us put words in your mouth.
PANETTA: Well... creep, maybe. ...Creep, crook. Conman.
HILLARY: All the C words except "Competent."
PANETTA: Conflicted?
RAHM: Corrupt.
OBAMA: Confounding.
BIDEN: Secretary Gates, where does this leave us? If you are saying that the 40,000 troops will succeed only if a guy with those credentials comes through for us, it seems obvious that we've got more work and the 40,000 is not even the real issue here. I mean, does anyone disagree?
OBAMA: Turn up that volume, Joe.
McCAIN, on TV: The President will make the right decision, I know. The point is that *delaying* that decision can put our men and women in further danger. General McChrystal has said what's needed and it's time to act now without delay!
HILLARY {shaking head}: And he's the brainy one, right? Not Palin, but him?
RAHM (cracking a knuckle): What a FUCKWIT!
BIDEN: See, this the thing. This is what I meant about becoming Lyndon Johnson, Mr. President.
OBAMA: I wonder if President Johnson got to read the letters that I do.
GATES: {Eyes rise, meet with Biden's, and lock...}
==========================================================
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How did Bill Gates manage to get invited to the discussion? Won't that be interpreted as a sign of favoritism towards the place where he used to work - Microsoft?
November 13, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
OOOooh, touché, Dr. Fred!
A little search/replace clears us of this deed!
November 13, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to bring them all home and have some national and international forums on dealing with terrorism.
Bush/Cheney have done more damage to our country than the terrorists of 9/11 themselves.
Those who despise America must be delighted at our current state of disarray.
Time to regroup, rethink, come up with more intelligent ways to prevent and respond to terrorism and heal and strengthen our population at home as well as do what is appropriate to make amends to the Iraqi and Afghan people that did us no harm and committed no acts against us.
November 13, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was so simple, you know, Synch? Ask Mullah Omar to hand over Bin Laden. If he won't do it, get Bin Laden yourselves. Or else just get him in secret and leave the good Mullah out of it.
That's all they needed to do. The whole mega-enterprise of it all is just astonishing.
November 13, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hare to be wet blanket, but the major ingredient that never gets into these discussions any longer it the Oil Pipeline across Afghanistan. I keep imagining the day Obama started turning grey was the one where he was told by the Powers Who Really Run America: 'Our 30-year policy is to secure every drop of Our oil that God so mistakenly placed in the Wrong Places. You can have a little leeway in tinkering around with policy, but We Will Get That Oil. Or else.'
http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/sherman-debrosse-pipeline-politics-and.html
November 13, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right, okay, but the one on your map appears to consist precisely of a dotted line.
It is "proposed" and it will not be built in our lifeimes.
November 13, 2009 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/13-6
November 13, 2009 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fine, Wendy.
It would kind of be better to talk on the phone or something about this. It's hard for me to believe that someone is going to build a pipeline through Afghanistan (interminable war), Pakistan (horrific war), and India (hates Pakistan).
But this doesn't mean that this was not on Bush's mind when he attacked instead of grabbing Bin Laden.
There are, of course, numerous less perilous routes out of Turkmenistan.
November 14, 2009 4:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't trying to harsh your mellow or anything. I just keep running into bits and pieces of the interminable plans. One pipeling goes online next week, one from Russia to Iran; the TIPA one is to compete with it. I will hush now.
November 14, 2009 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's hard to know when to hush; even those of us who have lived in the general area don't know the geography or the regional political issues cold and it's complicated. The obvious route out of Turkmenistan is across the Caspian to Baku (an old haunt of mine), and then you've got a clean shot through Georgia to Turkey and Europe (how many readers can even follow this?). Who gets to approve what goes through the Caspian, though, is not a settled issue internationally, and Iran will go along this since they're benefiting from that pipeline opening now as you say. Russia might not like it but whether they really get a veto in Southern Caspian is debatable.
The even more obvious way to get gas out is through Russia, but nobody trusts the conniving Russians especially after they got antagonized by Bush/Cheney endlessly smacking their faces no matter what they did (jonesing as Cheney was for a new Cold War).
November 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Not trying to be a know-it-all, and I did learn something important from this discussion, completely owing to you. Afganistan is thought of as the necessary war, but this is idiotic. They just needed to get Bin Laden, not a whole country.
The Iraq was cooked up obviously (what a *SHAMEFUL* chapter!!), and the implication of what you are saying is that maybe Afghanistan was too, for this kooky pipeline idea. Makes sense. If they were blowing smoke up our asses as to Iraq, why wouldn't they do that as to Afghanistan?
SO THANKS!!
November 14, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The principal parallel with Vietnam is this: We are propping up a corrupt and incompetent government with no chance of surviving absent our assistance. That alone creates the conditions for a quagmire.
As a writer I quoted in a couple earlier threads said, Afghanistan wins all its home games.
There is no "victory" to be had.
November 13, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
If we all listened to *you*, Grouch, we *never* would have even caught Bin Laden! He'd still be at large today!
November 13, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
November 13, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What we have here is failure to communicate....socio-politically.
Afghanistan - Karzai - Not Islamist.
Vietnam - Nguyễn Văn Thiệu - Not Communist
Chile - Salvador Allende - Not Communist
C
November 13, 2009 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well-said, C!
November 13, 2009 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very good, how you put this, Overreach THIS!
There is one other thing that is seldom mentioned and that is the fact that we do not have 40,000 troops available to send. The troops that are there now are on their third and fourth rotations. Even though they should have a minimum of 18 full months at home before being re-deployed, they are getting 15 months and then it's back to the sand pit. There's where your meltdowns are coming from. For gods sake, OT...why must we use our sons and daughters in such a way?
As conditions stand now, by the first part of next year, we might have 15,000 troops ready to be returned to duty overseas. 40,000 is out of the question.
The only troop movement I wish to see is in the direction of home.
November 13, 2009 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yez. Or send an all Repub neo-con force.
Draft 'em.
November 13, 2009 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
College Republicans are a population subgroup that is woefully under-represented in the US Military.
November 13, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too true...too true pca.
C
November 13, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Flower, BTW this was originally a comment to your very good blog today and it just got too long. But you were my inspiration for this, seriously. Thanks again!
November 13, 2009 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
:o)
Natgootch.
November 14, 2009 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink