Imagine a sitting President being KIDNAPPED from the Oval Office. Actually happened in USSR in 1991. (And so what?)
Same as the President of France or Queen of England. This is a little-remembered event in a
highly chaotic period, but on August 19, 1991, Gorbachev's cronies,
terrified of him beginning to allow the Soviet empire to break up, dragged him a whole time-zone away put him under unlawful house arrest (i.e., falsely "imprisoned" him) while upon vacationing on {factual error caught by Desidero at bottom
below; Yeltstin was already vacationing in Crimea from August 4 when
put under house arrest; he was not taken to his dacha but imprisoned in
his dacha -- thanks to Desidero} the peninsula of Crimea to
stage an overthrow. This is remembered as a failed coup, but even
though Soviet troops wouldn't support it, the plotters partly got
their way for the moment: when he returned to Moscow three days
later, his rival Boris Yeltsin continually mocked Gorbachev to his face on television -- that his own guys had done this so why should anybody else trust his
leadership? Yeltsin rubbed it in for days and days, and
basically took over.
At the time, USSR had consisted of what are now 15 countries, although scrappy Georgia had announced sessession in April, and as to the Baltic republics who had always hated USSR, 2 of the 3 of those had nominally seceded in 1990 - Moscow wanted to at worst hold the line there - those four annoying "countries" and they hadn't even yet lost Estonia, and maybe could get it all back anyway. That's sure what those kidnappers wanted!
After all, they had a pretty big army, and the bedrock core of USSR had always been the 3 Slavic republics of gigantic Russia, plus Ukraine (historically, "Little Russia") plus Belarus ("White Russia") - those were the most cherished places they could never lose. But can you imagine being in Moscow itself or out in any of those regions listening to news that your President was kidnapped?! Not a confidence builder!
Even in Soviet Ukraine, for example, they wondered what the hell to do.
President kidnapped while empire crumbling - hmmmmmmmnnn.
In the Ukrainian capital Kiev, there stood a gigantic arch
representing the eternal friendship between the Russian and Ukrainian
peoples. You don't need metallic symbols like that, if the friendship
is truly so unshakeable, of course. And Ukraine's leadership looked
up at that imposing arch and got themselves an idea, just as
Gorbachev was struggling to somehow regain his footing. They
declared indepedence from USSR four days after the kidnapping, on
August 24, 1991, and Gorbachev had to resign as Party leader the next
day, quite a blow in USSR culture. The sly Ukrainians got away with
it in all the commotion, too, and that makes tomorrow Independence
Day in Ukraine. (This is all on Wiki and lotsa other places, of course.)
So Ukraine was the first Slavic "country" to declare independence, inflicting an unbearable loss, and a whole parade of new ex-Soviet
countries followed suit over 3 months. Russia itself threw in the
towel by late December. Bye-bye, big empire! Of course, the Russian
Federation itself is still a huge empire with innumerable minorities across 11 time zones,
so even though it lost 14 whole countries, it's not a total break
with the past by any means. But it is a huge one, and right now Ukraine
is celebrating its role with a three-day weekend! Still, many Russians,
Urkainians, and Belarussians still regard themselves as one people by the
way (and many Ukrainians don't know what the three-day weekend is exactly for), so it is not a settled issue culturally (though Ukrainian
nationalists don't want any part whatsoever of togetherness). Anyhow, Happy Independence Day, Ukrainians!
And Gorbachev? He was regarded as a rock star in USA at the time one might
recall, but as a bumbling buffoon across ex-USSR, then as now. Tensions persist, of course, such as it almost coming to blows when cocksure, imbecilic Bush tried to bloviate how NATO was a good move for Ukraine a year and half ago before an infuriated Putin, who spat, "Well, you understand, George,
Ukraine isn't even a state!" Don't believe the cheery East European B.S. about that account being "debunked" either (in a story completely missed by airheaded U.S. MSM who narcoleptically published WH talking points); it's audible on video and you can see Putin's fury.
Seems to me it's worse here. We voted for Obama and woke up to be governed by Max and Chuck.
August 23, 2009 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Max was a thing I didn't see coming, I'll happily grant you that.
August 23, 2009 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Worse here? You really are a moron. Are there tanks firing at the White House? Are there? People being killed in the streets for sticking with one party or another?
Do you even know what I'm referring to?
Do you have any idea how good we have it by comparison?
Fucking moron...
August 23, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is all very interesting, OT, and something we here in the States don't have insight into as you do. Thanks for posting!
August 23, 2009 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for visiting and commenting, Flower.
The world is so bizarre.
People in ex-USSR by and large only have a very vague if any recollection of the above; so much else was on their minds during those troubled times like finding some way to live. It's still hard for me to believe it even happened, but whatever...
August 23, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for visiting and commenting, Flower.
The world is so bizarre.
People in ex-USSR by and large only have a very vague if any recollection of the above; so much else was on their minds during those troubled times like finding some way to live. It's still hard for me to believe it even happened, but whatever...
August 23, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, OT. I honestly did not know anything about this.
August 23, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, LisB.
I honestly don't remember speaking to any American anywhere not closely connected to this jazz who understood it. I didn't at first to the degree I do now. And like I say, most of them themselves have only a vague if any recollection of it. They say things like, "Oh yeah, I think I remember there was something like that!" And here the guy got dragged out of the Kremlin and sent like 800 miles away! Holy smokes! Imagine if that had happened in USA? We wouldn't shut up about it! But they really did have so much on their minds, the uncertainty and fear of day-to-day living in really hard times and all kinds of crazy headlines, that I think it's all a blur.
Thanks for visiting, etc. Cheers, O.T.
August 23, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
As far as pure news drama is concerned, of Shakespearean quality, too, and world-changing implications, in my lifetime, I personally don't think anything that has happened since can top Yelstin on top of the tank on the world's televisions.
There's a side story that always interested me afterwards on Yelstin: which came first, the chicken and the egg: the alcoholism or the chutzpah? The laughing jags that Bill Clinton and Boris Yelstin seemed to get when together were also so intriguing.
Yelstin was quite simply, an incredibly memorable character. The friendly dictator that didn't do bullshit--no demagoguery, no ideology, no patience with fools even though he himself could be one himself.
That said, I think Gorbachev often gets an undeserved bad rap, and most historians will conclude that. He is considered "weak." What he was was someone who was purposefully "weak," his vision that of someone who could see that the imperialism born of revolutionary fervor was a big mistake. Looked down upon because he came to the conclusion, as George Washington did, that empire is not the way to convince people that your system is best. If he didn't set in motion the fall of the Berlin wall, none of it would have happened, and Reagan had absolutely nothing to do with it except for playing a alight enabling role. It is most certainly true that the USSR was decaying from within for decades, but there are many different ways that could have turned out. Gorbachev was the one that set it all in motion. He too, was a Shakespearean figure, but a really tragic one.
But it was Yelstin getting on top of that tank to confront the USSR old guard that really was the signal that the USSR would not be an empire any longer. The old guard could have tried to hold it together with military force, which would have taken things in a whole 'nother direction involving the whole world.
August 23, 2009 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some fun trivia I just ran across: a bizarre overlap of Russian history and American indie rock...
There are a lot of good videos available, both the serious and the more pop culture type, if you search Google videos for "Yeltsin."
August 23, 2009 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha-hah, now what's good!!
August 23, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Looked down upon because he came to the conclusion, as George Washington did, that empire is not the way to convince people that your system is best. "
- I have to disagree with this.
When Gorbachev came to power in the 1980s, everyone looked forward to the era of openness, democracy and fairness that he promised.
Gorbachev is reviled in Russia because of what he did to the economy. People's life savings were wiped out and they were left with nothing to buy bread with. The price that the country paid for his reforms was catastrophic. In USSR, it was quite normal for people to live in one of the republics while their parents lived in another. When the USSR collapsed, there were no communications, no trains, no airflights, no money transfers, nothing.
I know of cases were students in Kiev were starving because their parents lived in Russia or in some other republic and simply couldn't send money to supplement student grant.
Most Russians I know would have preferred the Chinese model - start with carefully managed economic capitalism, then gradually introduce political reforms.
Oh, and Yeltsin was an alcoholic before 1991. Every Soviet party leader was required to drink vodka at any of the endless official functions.
August 23, 2009 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
All good and thoughtful comments, thanks. And yeah, nothing like that tank!
I think a difference between Yeltsin and Gorbachev was that the latter really didn't know what he wanted and acted that way. He kept talking about going forward on a consensus path, which is the absence of leadership at a time when the place needed leadership more than anything. Yeltsin was probably pretty confused as well, but he knew not to act that way and to demonstrate leadership. That's one reason he got ahead.
Also, seriously, I encourage you to not underestimate the derision with which these people regarded Gorbachev. Could not *bear* the guy and it's only different now to the extent that a younger generation doesn't totally know who he was and some older people are beginning to not recall the period very well. Those that do recall, laugh at him and shake their heads. And there is nothing of me in this, that is just the situation as I have observed over many years.
Your article mentions "President of Russia;" yeah, that shows how things were already coming apart. Yeltsin held that post. Gorbachev was President of the USSR of which Russia was the main part, but USSR ceased to exist a few months later, a bit like musical chairs.
August 23, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more thing about galloping "Presidents." Wiki misleadingly chirps that Gorbachev was the only President of USSR ever. Technically true I guess, but grumpy old prune Andrei Gromyko was President also through his presidency of Praesidium of Supreme Soviet in the day, and not just he. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/246506/Andrey-Andreyevich-Gromyko
President of Russia was created as an office only in April 1991 where the above events took place in August. Sure knew how to confuse a guy, didn't they (Wiki's having trouble keeping up!)?
August 23, 2009 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Found this absolutely amazing when you discussed this the other night. Hard to believe so many people did not know this occurred. Interesting to read the entire account now.
August 23, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Mag. Yeah, I thought I'd share it more broadly, it's so nuts as you say. It would make a good movie, but you'd have to think about what you wanted to include in the script, where to begin and to end, and how to bring the largely uncomprehending audience along...
Again, thanks for your support and always your friendship,
O.T.
August 23, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great stuff, OT. I feel educated.
Thanks.
August 23, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great to see you, Bwak, and as it's obviously specialized stuff, I'm real glad you could drop by and glance over it! Happy Ukrainian Independence Day as of midnight your time I suppose!
Your allegiant servitor,
O.T.
August 23, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent. I'm copying to keep in file for reference.
Great job. Perhaps I shall start addressing you as Professor OverReach THIS!!
Aprreciate. Rec'd.
August 23, 2009 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, thanks a whole bunch, Aunt Sam! I really appreciate your support and involvement. No lie. And you're TRULY no slacker your damn self! Ha-hah!
Best, O.T.
August 23, 2009 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is so much here OT and of the utmost importance historically and today. So I just thought I would hone in on something.
Lenin saw a problem. The Eastern Orthodox Church and its relationship to the Tsar. But he also saw other Christian Sects, Muslims and as I understand it, other religions also.
How do you get rid of all this strife? I mean Muslims hate Muslims, just look at Iraq.
We will just abolish all religions.
And in America, where everyone hated Catholics and Jews and Muslim or Hindu or Confucious or Buddha were out of the question, well we just turned our noses up.
NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN RUSSIA. DIRTY COMMIES.
Shit, we never had religious freedom here. hahahahaha
We still dont
hhahhahah
I do understand how Lenin came to this conclusion however.
THE END
August 23, 2009 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this perspective, Dickday. It's really weird to me BTW how the church continued to exist through the communist 70 years and almost everybody was baptized, often in secret.
The whole thing is such a strange story...
August 23, 2009 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
YES IT IS. An amazing story that leads one to Jung and Jaynes and Levi Straus.........
We just cannot let go of it as a race.
August 23, 2009 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you take quite a few liberties with your narrative. "Dragged Gorbachev away"? He was at his summer dacha in the Crimea for the month of August, pretty standard fare, though of course good time & place to put him under house arrest. The reason Ukraine was ready to declare independence was because Gorbachev had already been negotiating devolution to the Republics under the Union of Sovereign States, and Ukraine had already tried declared itself "sovereign" the year before with its Declaration of State Sovereignty on July 16, 1990, while their Parliament had been moving to a democratic one from a year before that, thanks to the openings of Perestroika and the fall of the Wall.
Regarding "Yeltsin took over", Yeltsin went from being President of Russia to President of Russia. Something similar happened when Czechoslovakia broke up peacefully and Vaclav Havel found himself out of a job, or when Yugoslavia broke up several times with Milosevic head of steadily smaller pieces. Yeltsin had been feuding with Gorbachev and his wife for years, so it's not unusual he took advantage of the failed coup to make fun of Gorbachev. Yeltsin was also a well-known drunk, but on the tank he became a hero. (He should also be remembered for giving us Putin). The coup vailed in Venezuela too - does Chavez look bad or the US?
August 24, 2009 2:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is the third time I have entered this (server down, etc.)...
Okay, factual error, a huge one, thanks and I've corrected. Liberties no, and you are welcome to your additional facts, commentary, and I thank you for your contribution AND IMPORTANT CORRECTION!
It might amuse you, desidero, to see that Ruslan Khazbulatov was quoted in an article published yesterday saying that Yeltsin totally panicked and was sure he'd be shot and was beside himself for two days. Was gonna drive to U.S. Emb. to seek sanctuary when Khazubulatov said you go and save yourself, I have to stay here with my fellow Deputies, that Yeltsin finally shook himself out of it and was soon stopping tanks. Of course, Yeltsin's not around to give his account, so Khazbulatov has a pretty free hand! http://www.segodnya.ua/news/14073876.html
August 27, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink