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Hillary Clinton is a phony?


Many posters on TPMCafe call Hillary Clinton a phony. Nobody bothers to respond to that insult, we just all know it.

Well yes she IS a politician. But is she really more phony than George Bush or McCain or Al Gore or, for that matter, Barak Obama or Bill Clinton? I think not. Numerous figures say that the more they know her, the more they like her. Just ask us in upstate New York.

So how did she get that "reputation" ? Bob Somerby has the answer, just check out his blog today http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh012407.shtml and the past few days as well. Please read this, it's not really about Clinton, it's about why McCain (or other GOP) will win the next election.


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I've never really thought of Hillary as a phony. I've been an admirer since she stood up to the bullying of congressional Republicans when she testified as First Lady on the subject of universal health care. She was a strong, intelligent, well informed woman. No wonder the right wing hates her. In the Senate, from what I can see, she has take positions that were sensible and worked to build consensus. Possibly, another reason they hate her.

Frankly, if we're looking for phonies, we need look no further than Sen. John McCain. He still gets traction in the media as a maverick and independent Republican. But, he's kissing up to the same people, lining up the same donors that Bush used in '04. Apparently McCain hasn't noticed that the American people said they were fed up Bush and Bush clones. They want someone who is going to work for them and not work against their interest. Maybe McCain might do so as president, but I'm not going to take that chance. America can't afford it.

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Some media folks are not afraid of conservatives anymore, but the legacy of a decade of merciless pounding at their hands makes many reporters and editors reflexively faint of heart and ready to keep up this crap.

The lesson might be that a similar campaign could swing them the other way. Keep up the vigilance.

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This has a straw man smell to it. Can you point to some posters who have actually called her a phony?

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Although I do have to say that her new ad that's popped in the blogosphere promoting a blog of filtered content--you can be first!!--looks like astroturf. I'm looking forward to seeing whether the "blog" allows comments or not.

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Sorry I don't know how to link, but here are some collected comments (one each max) from familiar posters. They all claim that what Hillary says and does is not related to what Hillary believes -- that's my definition of "phony." Dan K's quote goes a little further, so you can drop that from the list if you wish.

On December 25, 2006 - 8:49am K J Liberal said: She is a poll-driven chameleon.

On January 3, 2007 - 4:51pm beachmom said: merely reading the polls and playing it safe

On January 17, 2006 - 11:24am cscs said: Pandering is apparently Hillary's strategy. She's trying to be all things to all people.

On February 10, 2006 - 6:46pm KingElvis said: Hill's opportunism and pandering seem particularly grating to me.

On February 10, 2006 - 9:28pm hoppycalif2 said: she chose to give up her own beliefs and pretend to be a centrist or even a Republican Lite

On January 21, 2007 - 7:13pm Good 4 A Merica said: don't send us anymore insincere candidates.

On January 21, 2007 - 1:29pm Kache said: I don't have a clue what she REALLY believes. Will the real Hillary Clinton please stand up!

On January 21, 2007 - 3:36pm Dan K said: It's just the ruthless, mindless, frenzied, cynical pursuit of personal power in itself that makes her world go round.

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Heh, let's not forget about this one...

On January 18, 2007 - 1:32pm JayAckroyd said: "People who try to imitate [Bill Clinton] try to find ways of weakening their positions to stay out of trouble. Hillary's one of those, and her health care plan was a perfect example."

All in good fun... all in good fun...

~~~~~~~~~~~

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Come visit PROJECT: Lucidity.

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That's not phoniness. That's triangulation.

She's my senator. She's done a fine job of learning about New York, of traveling around the state. One of the advantages I think she has is that the caricature that the media has promulgated is entirely untrue.

My objection in that post is her unwillingness, along with many of her fellow senators to take firm and clear positions that reflect their constituents' views.

My objection to the DLC approach, which she pursues very clearly and without artifice.

I don't think Clinton supports taxpayer funded universal health care. I think she supports a continued role for insurance companies in any plan going forward. She doesn't pretend to hold any other position. I'm not saying she's phony. I'm saying she's both wrong on this policy and on the politics. I am not saying that she is being phony.

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Here's an example of what I meant:

Hillary Clinton was grilled by Iowa voters this morning, and to its credit, The Washington Post has already posted an interesting report on what went down -- one that's chock full of interesting quotes and moments. Key quotes from Clinton after the jump.

On how she hopes to accomplish on health care what she couldn't get done in the early nineties:

At one point, she asked for a show of hands from the audience, asking them to declare whether they preferred an employer-based system of insurance, a system that mandates all individuals to purchase insurance, with help from the government if necessary, or one modeled on the Medicare system.

Overwhelmingly the audience favored moving toward a Medicare-like system for all Americans. But Clinton, summoning up memories of the famous "Harry and Louise" ads run by opponents of the Clinton health-care plan, warned that until there is greater political consensus, the same kind of attacks could sink any new efforts to provide universal coverage.

"I've been through this so I know how hard it's going to be," she said. "But I know how important it is, so this time we're going to build a consensus first so when Harry and Louise show up, people are going to say, ''Oh, turn that off, that is not true.' And that will give us the political basis to be able to make the changes that we need."

I don't think it's easy to make the case that she is being insincere here. She has come to the conclusion that a federal single-payer plan is a non-starter. Someone like me would argue that she's wrong--that the last 20-odd years of the combination of HMO/Insurance Company/Big Pharma under an employer-based system for most, federal coverage for the poor and elderly, and fee for service for the rest has failed so completely that there be would widespread support among all the affected participants--patients, doctors and employers--for single payer plans.

However, such a program would be fought tooth and nail by the middleman triumvirate. So she seeks "compromise" that retains the role of the triumvirate. But there is no compromise that will fix this. That's where the problem lies. Not only does the US spend more than twice as much per capita as any other OECD government, the US government spends more money per capita than other OECD governments. The French government's single payer plan that applies to everyone costs the taxpayer less than the US system, where the government pays less than half of health care costs.

How she has come to this conclusion, and whether it is a new-found conclusion or not, it really doesn't seem to be the case that she is misrepresenting her views, or what she would do in office.

Those of us who think this is a mistake might characterize her views as timid, or even gutless. Others may think that she has decided that the only way to be president is through the Washington money machine, which means not messing with the triumvirate. Still others may think that she is just being realistic--that the influence these groups have is so great as to be insurmountable.

I don't think phoniness is a fair characterization, and I think the people who characterize her in that way are not writing as clearly as they could.

You could contrast her position on women's reproductive rights. Her approach is to focus not on abortion, but on unwanted pregnancy. I think this is a good idea. It's a wedge issue--most people who find abortion icky don't find contraception icky. It's a popular position. It points out the hypocrisy of the "pro-life" people. It's not a compromise. It's a shifting of the narrative.

She could do the same thing on health care. She could say we'll have embarked on this experiment of replacing fee for service (which didn't work because it created incentives for expensive, unnecessary treatments) with HMOs for a generation, and the result has been the worst health care system in the OECD. She could speak out boldly--and it's easier to speak out boldly when you're advocating real change instead of nip here and a tuck there. Is that phoniness? No. Is it admirable? Not to my mind. Will following her course make the country better off? I don't think so.

But it's not phoniness. Phoniness would be advocating a single payer plan, in order to garner votes, and then sell out to the insurance companies.

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"She has come to the conclusion that a federal single-payer plan is a non-starter."

JayAckroyd can you back this up? Because that is not at all how I read her remark. I read: She was asked what she wuld do differently from 1993. She answered that she would make sure that voters were educated first, before advancing a detailed bill.

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Fascinating. If you think this answer means she's for a single payer plan I'm surprised. But that's why it's so important to post original source material. It seems to me that what she is saying to these people who understand perfectly well--don't need to be educated--is that she is not going to support a single payer plan. If she is saying that she is going to campaign for a single payer plan, but in such a way that the ads in the early 90s can be refuted, you have to remember that she wasn't proposing a single payer plan. She tried to compromise with the insurance companies, and they savaged her. Her response, as far as I can tell, is that more compromise is necessary. You say not.

Can you find any evidence, anywhere, that she is a proponent of a single payer plan? Ironically enough, are you proposing that she is a phony--that she is pretending to consider compromise when that is not her real plan?

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No I don't think this answer means she's pushing for a single payer plan. Nor does she think that a federal single-payer plan is a non-starter. I don't think she has any specific plan in mind right now. She doesn't know yet.

The question she has to answer is, why anybody should listen to her on health care since she was a failure. What will she do differently? Her answer is that "we're going to build a consensus first ... that will give us the political basis to be able to make the changes that we need." What changes are those? She doesn't say. But the message is that she will get behind the best health care plan that is politically possible.

That is her strength. And yes like all political accomplishments it does require compromise.

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No, this one doesn't require compromise. Universal health care is a no-brainer politically.

"What will she do differently?"

She's not proposing to anything differently. She's not building a consensus. She's talking about building a consensus. That's what she did the last time. She put together what she thought was a compromise and got torpedoed.

Any proposal that actually costs the insurance companies money is going to be attacked by them. They're not interested in compromise. The no-brainer, very easy to explain to taxpayers, is to say "everyone gets health care. It gets paid for with taxes, a premium you pay and a co-pay. No more company insurance. No more PCPs. No more people trying to prevent you from getting care. And it'll be cheaper."

Nothing at all hard about that.

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If "universal health care is a no-brainer politically" then why didn't Kerry or Gore embrace it when they ran for president? If you remember, in 2000 it was Bradley who pushed it, and it didn't work out well for him.

In fact universal health care has not been POLITICALLY practical in the US until recently. There have been too many well-funded opposition groups. It is more popular lately, partly thanks to Arnold, and I'll bet that Hillary Clinton will go that way too.

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It's a no-brainer politically if you ask people, not donors. Gore and Kerry didn't embrace because it would have made it harder to fund their campaigns. It's always been a popular issue, and is especially popular now.

The idea that it is not politically practical is the central point. Sure it is, if you care about voters. No, it's not, if you care about donors.

Saying that we can't implement good public policy because the system is too corrupt is an admission of defeat. Of course we can implement good public policy. We should do so. And we should vote for people who intend to do so.

What you're reiterating here is the story of Clinton and Feingold in a committee meeting on campaign finance reform, recounted in CtG. "Get real, Russ," she says. In my view, she needs to get real, and support popular measures. Kowtowing to the donors is not a sustainable political strategy.

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It's a popular issue with voters, but only until you tell them what it's going to cost, and the other ramifications. Let's do a little math here. The US spent $2.2 T for health care in 2006. The IRS collected money from 90 M personal tax forms. Divide the two and you get $25,000 for each taxpayer. That is scary.

Most people do not like tax increases. They'll accept it only if they understand it. That is what it means building consensus.

I didn't say the system was corrupt. I said there are well-funded opposition groups. Doctors and insurance companies for instance can publicise their anti views over and over to influence public opinion. Like it or not, it is the American way, it is not corruption.

Here is an excellent description of the 1993-4 Health Care Debate. www.upenn.edu/pnc/ptbok.html It is not really a question of good people and bad people fighting over what to do. It's much more complicated and real than that.

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Reply at the bottom of the thread.

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Thanks. I disagree with most of these characterizations, and hadn't seen them myself.

And to link, click on the red "link" link at the bottom of a comment.

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Others agree! Here's an extensive column on it. www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson-and-james-boyce/hillarys-primary-challen_b_39270.html They focus on righty attacks, but I agree with Somerby that the continual drum-roll of "liberal" put-downs of Democratic candidates hurts much more.

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marcf--

You say that people don't like tax increases. That's not right. What they don't like is to see their take home pay go down. Sure, a taxpayer funded system would require increased taxes. But it would also mean the elimination of the deduction for insurance on his or her paycheck. It would also mean a reduction in the employer's part of the cost, which either turns into higher profits and more tax revenue, or into an increase in take home pay.

Moreover, a taxpayer funded system won't cost as much as the current system because it would reduce the costs of everybody in the health care industry, except for the triumvirate in the middle. If we take the OECD as an example, you're talking about cutting health care costs per capita at least in half while improving morbidity and mortality statistics. Primary care at the ER would be substantially reduced, and preventative care would be extended to the currently uninsured, treating conditions before they became acute.

Doctors would reduce their staffs. The two doc PCP practice I go to has a full time employee dedicated to chasing down insurance payments. My brother the pediatrician faces painful cash flow problems, and not infrequently is reimbursed less than his cost for some treatments. Both of them would greatly prefer a single payer plan.

Company benefits departments would get out of the business of providing health care coverage. The disastrous retirement health bills that the auto and other now rust belt businesses would go away.

Right now, the US government (not the private sector, the US government) spends more per capita than the OECD on medical care. And the other 55% (compared to France) comes out of patients' pockets.

This is a no-brainer.

You originally agreed with Clinton that voters need to be educated in order that new Harry and Louise ads wouldn't torpedo reform. Well, this is the easiest education job on the planet. No more insurance deduction. No more insurance company refusing your claims. No more annual cuts in take home pay as premiums rise. No more skyrocketing copays for drugs--which is done in stealth fashion by not just raising copays, but also by cutting permissible prescription amounts. I know a guy who skips sumatripin doses sometimes because he's only allowed 9 pills a month, and sometimes has more than 9 migraines a month.

The system is a disaster. Everyone agrees on this, but the insurance companies, the drug companies and the senators they have in their pockets.

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Keep advocating, JayAckroyd, I agree with every little detail in this post. Except for your last paragraph implication that it is corruption that has forestalled better health care in the past. Rather it is an unfortunate consequence of the US system, much like the California Proposition 13 savaging of public education. Again, read this description of the 1993-4 Health Care Debate. www.upenn.edu/pnc/ptbok.html to see the problems.

I am 100% in favor of universal health care. What plan? I don't know, and the devil is in the details. ANY dramatic change like this will have many winners and losers too.

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marcf

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