Finally! Olbermann Calls For Quarantine of Assasination Promoting Fox News
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So what to do? Your boycotts mean little. Since you are already here you are not watching Fox News Channel. Advertiser boycotts are also of limited value, most make barely a dent in the company. Besides which, an advertiser in this economy which found its sales boosted by an association with malaria, would start breeding mosquitoes.If there is a solution, it is perhaps an indirect boycott. It has probably been your experience (as it has been mine) that stores, bars, restaurants, waiting rooms - often show Fox News on their televisions. Don't write a letter. Don't make a threat - just get up and explain: If they will not change the channel, leave the place, and say (calmly) why it is you are taking your business elsewhere. If you know a viewer of that channel, show them this tape. Or just the tape with the attacks on Dr. Tiller, which set the stage for his assassination.
Fox News Channel will never restrain itself from incitement to murder and terrorism, not until its profits decline, when its growth stops. So not so much as a boycott here, but as a quarantine - because this has got to stop!
Keith's segment tonight moved me to post this clip to help his quarantine along. Please feel free to email this clip to any and all business that, in your experience, regularly show Fox News. Please also send to anyone of your acquaintance that regularly watch that domestic terrorist network.
Media Matters and Brave New Films have been working diligently for years, trying to expose Fox for what it is.
I do not want to be an advocate that squashes free speech. But there is a fine line between free speech and hate speech. Fox has gone very much past that line so many times. I agree with Keith - this has to stop!
O'Reilly will always be able to fall back on advertisers of vibrators shaped like a c**k with a little battery in it, because he can honestly state that he is a satisfied customer who uses one personally, while sexually harassing his employees.
June 2, 2009 3:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't believe you actually watch Olbermann.
June 2, 2009 6:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I CAN believe you watch FOX. If you don't watch Olberman, how can you have an opinion about him? He speaks the truth and calls people on their hypocrisy.
PS. I watch Olberman; can you believe that? I thought you could.
June 2, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I used to watch once in a while but stopped because I couldn't stand it anymore. I don't watch FOX either because they're all just entertainers who make a lot of money. I try to stick to just reading the newspapers for my "news". I stopped watching KO after he had Howard Dean on back in March. Dean said that no President deserved to be called a fascist. Olbermann just sat there and nodded and made some lame comment backpedaling - "If you have a case to call somebody a ‘fascist,’ lay it out. Define your terms and say where you, I mean, you may be crazy and you may be wrong, but at least put some meat on the bones." KO seemed to forget his own fascist rants not that long ago.
June 2, 2009 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
MCB, you are such a phony!
"I don't watch FOX"
"I used to watch Olberman"
June 2, 2009 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you say that? What makes you think I watch Fox? I watch both MSNBC and Fox during the day but I don't watch any of the night-time shows. Sometimes when people post clips from youtube on here I will look at them. But I think the night-time "news" shows have just turned into one-sided rants, both right and left. So rather than watch them I read the newspapers that I couldn't read while I was at work.
June 2, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I'm sure you're wondering - I try to read the NYTimes and the WSJ cover to cover. Keeps me balanced.
June 2, 2009 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
MCB, for some reason you keep trying to make me believe that you are an objective, balanced person. Forget it. Just get over that dream. I don't know why it matters to you that I think you are a "talking points" robot, but that is what I think. I think it because of your many very words.
So just claiming that you don't watch FOX doesn't cut it for me, but I can't really get over the fact that you have some bizarre need to make me think you have original thoughts. You don't.
There are lots of people like you. It is a very ordinary way of being. I know that. It is sad, but I know it.
Get over trying to impress me, unless you want to come up with something original and intelligent. OH! did I give you another task? Forget it. Unless you want to really be objective and intelligent -- not gonna happen, I know.
June 2, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't trying to impress you. Just anticipating your next insulting comment - which was going to be around what papers I read. If you don't like my perspective it's fine to disagree. But you call me a liar? It's unfortunate that you resort to that defense mechanism.
If you think I am so ordinary - then why not just ignore my comments?
And please don't flatter yourself that I have any desire to make you think anything. I couldn't care less what you think after the disrespect you've shown here. My comment here wasn't even addressed to you.
I was merely saying that KO is a blowhard who doesn't care about the facts or logic. It is ridiculous to blame BO/Fox for the death of the abortionist. The same way it would be ridiculous to blame KO/MSNBC if anyone had assassinated Bush/Cheney.
I'm not sure why right-wing TV hosts are blamed for things while left-wing TV hosts are not.
June 2, 2009 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except, of course, no one assassinated Bush or Cheney and someone did murder Dr. Tiller. You are are being intellectually dishonest when you compare KO's mostly sensible comments and BO's over-the-top ghoulishness.
June 4, 2009 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
When you read the links that I posted, I respectfully disagree that KO's comments are sensible. Saying that Bush allowed 9/11 to happen? I could see a wacko trying to assassinate Bush for that if somebody believed that KO rant. Or how about "terrorism inside Iraq is your creation, Mr. Bush". Or "cold-blooded killers who will kill people to achieve their political objectives"?
C'mon - these are things that a private citizen might say at home and get away with. But public figures (to use your words) like KO and BO need to be held to a higher standard.
PS - "Intellectually dishonest"? You really love to throw that one around. Reminds me of my "intellectual dishonesty" about our deficits growing larger than we've had under Reagan. Hee hee hee. They're getting bigger by the day...
June 4, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, what he said was they didn't take warning seriously and 9-11 was a consequence of that inaction. That is hardly a incendiary statement and is hardly new. He has been saying much the same thing since 9-11.
If someone wacko was going to take someone out as a result, something would have already happened. Nothing has.
What grew under Reagan was the distance between the Haves and the Have Nots. Deficits are immaterial in a world that simply prints more money or agrees to new delusions in order to maintain a status quo that is hardly equal in nature. I never disputed higher deficits. What I disputed was somehow that the end result would be the same when the goals of the two administrations are so drastically different.
Again, historically inaccurate comparisons that lack context is intellectually dishonest. Sorry if the moniker feels undeserved, but all I have to go on is your arguments.
June 4, 2009 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope that's not a real picture of you. Roosevelt is much better looking...
June 4, 2009 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word.
June 4, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word? Now you're speaking jive
June 4, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jive?
June 4, 2009 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You never saw Airplane?
June 4, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Years ago. Now the reference makes more sense.
June 4, 2009 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't think that homeslices like you used language like "word". I think that was started on Living Color back in the late 80's.
I did watch the special comment. It was incendiary but not to you because you agree with him. If you would take your blinders on you'd see that KO and BO are both equally spiteful. I'm not trying to defend O'Reilly - but I don't think he should be blamed for the doctor's death. Same way that KO shouldn't be blamed for a hypothetical Bush assassination. But people like you only like to have it one way.
Just like the deficit discussion, we will never see eye to eye. So I will just stop responding to your posts since it's just a waste of my time and yours.
June 4, 2009 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
My last comment on the issue.
June 5, 2009 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Deficits are immaterial? I guess you've never taken out a loan and know what it feels like to pay interest on your debts. We are going to increase our national debt by approximately $10 trillion over the next 10 years. The CBO is estimating that the deficit will average close to $1 trillion every year for the next 10 years. You call that immaterial? Now that I've seen your picture it makes sense, because you look like you're 12 years old. Once you grow up some you'll learn that sustained deficits over a long period of time definitely do matter
June 4, 2009 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pulling out age (or lack thereof) as a factor? The last refuge of a lazy mind. Thanks for the compliment, though. I am glad that as I march boldly into middle age, I still look like an adolescent. I get the benefits of both worlds that way - experience and youth. Sweet.
To you main point, have you ever taken out student loans and doubled or tripled your income as a result of that schooling? That debt was necessary to get from one rung on the ladder to one higher up. How about taking out a house loan in an up-and-coming neighborhood that will require sweat equity and patience to pay off, but will certainly contribute to your long-term bottom-line as a family? Deficits only matter if the end result (or stated goals) don't drastically increase our GDP. The things Obama wants to invest in are common sense measures that will make us more competitive on a global stage and will increase the relative value of America as a civic organization on the world stage.
While your boys were spending everything they could find on no-bid contracts and military hardware that rarely works the first time out of the gate, the deficits we ran were harmful because they didn't create a sustainable system of growth. It is a system of growth that is cannibalistic and ultimately self-defeating, benefiting only the very narrow slice of rich motherfuckers at the very top. How can you possibly defend that system with "middle class" in your user name?
The only way we will stay viable as a nation is to concentrate on evolving society to meet 21st century demands.
That means a national health care plan of some sort that insures all 320 million of us. That means an energy grid that is adaptive and scalable. It means promoting alternative ways of feeding that grid - from green roofs and solar panels on every "big box" store in the country to subsidized solar, wind and geothermal for every home because energy not used at all is better than energy created sustainably for the national grid. It means education for every kid as high as he or she wants to go. No, not at Harvard or Yale, unless they can pay the difference or get a scholarship, but at a good state school.
Shared prosperity will lead to a stronger and safer country. We wasted forty years of opportunity when these investments would have been much cheaper. This country fucked up. We missed huge chances all along the path from there to here. Even if I was 12, I would be able to read a history book or do Google searches for this information. It isn't tin-foil hat theories or based on any sort of liberal framework that you try to hang on everything.
Obama may not get anything done. He still needs to work with a Congress that is broken and an Executive Branch that is bloated beyond belief by presidents before him. He still needs to implement his programs through contracting vehicles that broken beyond repair with state and local agencies riddled with inefficiencies, lethargy and rot.
You don't seem to appreciate the magnitude of the task which implies a lack of political maturity, no matter what your actual age may be.
June 5, 2009 8:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
To answer your question, yes I have taken out student loans and house loans. But I also know lots of people who a couple years ago borrowed way too much against their house thinking prices only went one way and eventually their incomes would rise faster than they did. Now they're in way too deep on their mortgage and either selling their home or restructuring with the bank.
The next crisis will be a much more severe one that will be driven by government borrowing instead of consumer borrowing. Averaging trillion dollar deficits for the next 10 years isn't sustainable. Just like with the housing debacle, pretty soon this country will be spending way too much of its income on interest expense.
Deficits aren't a bad thing but sooner or later the bond markets will call a halt to $1 trillion annual deficits. The game doesn't end if there are reasonable deficits. It ends with deficits that cannot be financed except by monetization.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/middleclassbill/2009/05/deficits-average-close-to-1-tr.php
June 5, 2009 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: For what it is worth, I did read the links and listened again to the SC that was referenced. I came to much different conclusions than the bloggers did based on the same information.
June 4, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think I've ever seen anyone blog in orange crayon before. Congrats, NoClasshole. You managed it somehow.
June 2, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe you could try to manage a competent argument, rather than just throwing stones. I've never seen you add any substance to any of the discussions.
June 2, 2009 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You find something wrong with what he has reported here? Illogical prejudice is no more attractive on the right than it is on the left.
June 2, 2009 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't even bother to listen to KO's arguments any longer. His one-sided shows (and rants) are more comedy and entertainment than they are news. He has no interest in presenting anything but his side of a story. I also can't remember the last time I saw him bring on a guest who didn't agree with Olbermann's point of view
I would have thought Olbermann would have been booted to Comedy Central or HBO by now. But somehow the brass at GE seem to really like him.
June 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe he's said plenty of things worth taking exception to, but this is hardly the post under which you should be mocking Keith Olbermann. He's just plain right about Bill O'Reilly.
"Tu quoque" may be right on some level, but it does nothing to diminish the validity mageduley's point.
June 2, 2009 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
C'mon - I don't see how Fox can be blamed for it. Please tell me this - if Bush had been assassinated during his term, would you blame KO/MSNBC? KO claims that on "28 occasions, that is what was said on FNC..."Tiller the Baby Killer"...again and again and again." Well I think KO blasted Bush a lot more than 28 times. He called Bush a fascist. Called him a murderer. Called our troops in Iraq murderers. Said Bush allowed 9/11 to happen.
Would you blame KO/MSNBC if something similar had happened to Bush or Cheney?
June 2, 2009 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Post a single link to KO using the same sort of language about Bush. A single one. I have watched a view of his Special Comments on Bush and the worst I heard him call the guy was a liar. Maybe you need more sources of information than Faux News.
June 3, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You never saw Keith call him a fascist? Just use google or youtube.
And please stop insulting me about my sources. Just go to olbermannwatch.com and see for yourself
June 3, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bush was a fascist. Corporate-dominated government is the definition of fascism. Bill Clinton was a fascist, too. We have been living in a worsening police state with fascist tendencies since at least the end of World War II.
To your original comment, you still didn't provide a link of KO using the same sort of incendiary language as BO. There simply isn't a comparison, which is why I questioned your sources of information. You decry Fox news and Limbaugh and then use all of their talking points to make your comments.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
June 4, 2009 6:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.infowars.com/olbermann-bush-administration-%E2%80%9Callowed-911-attacks-to-occur%E2%80%9D/
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/05/15/olbermann-accuses-bush-murderous-deceit-should-shut-hell
June 4, 2009 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you actually watch the Special Comment that you posted? KO was articulate and pretty constrained as far as the liberals I have seen that fit your description of unhinged hate-mongering.
Likewise, the other blog goes to great lengths to condemn the language without actually refuting the charges. Accusing someone of murderous deceit isn't the same thing as calling them a murderer. That some in George Junior's employ might yet be charged with war crimes is unlikely, I agree, but not beyond the bounds of common sense.
That is the problem, Bill. You refuse to accept that George Junior (and his neocon predecessors going back to Nixon) were not really conservative. They were ideological. They believed in big government paying for bid business and the rest of us getting screwed in the bargain. There is soul searching to be done, I agree, but it is mostly on the right that it needs to occur.
At some point, despite whatever problem you have with the language or the messenger, the republican party will need to get the message or it will become extinct. Evolve to suit the times or die. That is the GOP's only choice. I prefer the former to the latter. The debate is too one-sided otherwise.
June 4, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
MCB, sometimes I think you're gonna show up as one of the Worst Person's in the Wo-o-o-o-orld.
What show is there that does not express it's side?
I hope you are picturing a many-sided object and thinking three-dimensionally when you refer to a side, rather then some bipolar fantasy world that has only two sides, Us vs. Them.
June 2, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh please. There's partisan and then there's the nightly cable news hosts on MSBNC and Fox. They're all way over the top. But none of them should be blamed for a killing such as what just happened or what happened in Pittsburgh recently. Olbermann is just the left-wing version of Rush. And those are two men that I equally can't stand. I just pray that Keith wakes up one day and decides to go back to his roots at ESPN. He's much better doing sports than politics.
June 2, 2009 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
KO and RL are hardly BFFs. They aren't even in the same league of incendiary. It's like comparing Peewee Herman to Howard Stern.
June 3, 2009 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps the most powerful Olbermann visual essay I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot of them. Thanks for put this up.
June 2, 2009 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Olbermann is and has been one of the most honest voices on cable news for the past few years. This was a great segment last night.
Fox News = Hate Speech
June 2, 2009 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
MSNBC is just as much about hate speech (to use your words) as Fox. Olbermann calling Bush a murderer, crook, fascist, malfeasant, criminal, etc.
Both sides are equally guilty of similar rants. But neither side can be blamed for horrendous acts such as the Kansas murder or the Pittsburgh incident.
June 2, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, they can. It is happening as we speak and Frank Schaeffer is the only one man enough and Christian enough to accept his share of responsibility.
June 3, 2009 3:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you would have blamed MSNBC/KO if either Bush or Cheney were assassinated during their time in office?
June 3, 2009 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Straw man argument because KO never called for anything but the upholding of standards when it came to those two.
BO literally called the guy a "Baby Killer" and said there is a special place in hell for him and that someone "should do something" to stop his reign of terror against the innocent unborn. Their broadcasts aren't even in the same league of incendiary. But, to answer your question, yes, if KO/MSNBC used the same language as BO/Fox about Tiller, over and over again, they would bear some responsibility. Bush and Cheney are also public figures and are open to greater criticism than private citizens. The president and vice president also have secret service protection.
Dr. Tiller most certainly did not. You are comparing apples and oranges and concluding that they must be just like pears. Ridiculous argument that indeed sounds like more Limbot crap that has no bearing on reality.
June 4, 2009 6:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I heard this too last night. Thanks for the post. Why not publish this message?
And I am with astral and Amike on this; Olbermann can deliver one hell of an essay at times.
June 2, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is true, and you can even put aside the issue if you want of whether he's more an entertainer.
He is if nothing else, a powerful essayist.
June 2, 2009 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe he took my idea to the next level?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/gregorzap/2009/06/rash-limbaugh-let-the-framing.php
June 2, 2009 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
"trying to expose Fox for what it is."
Given that they are not being all that effective, why is that? Are their methods about as effective as waterboarding?!
But seriously, I suppose "expose" is not simple because Fox isn't a simple evil as some would have it. The factual distortions can be explained/defended as humor or entertainment, and the bad jokes explained as informative. Thus the problem of exposing infotainment in a nutshell.
June 2, 2009 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I beg to differ eds. Check out Robert Greenwald's documentary
Outfoxed.
June 3, 2009 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bad link, but I believe I saw a video by that name some years ago. So what? With what part of my comment are you claiming to differ?
June 3, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what I differ with:
"The factual distortions can be explained/defended as humor or entertainment"
Here is the corrected link:
Outfoxed: Rupert Murdock's War On Journalism
There is no explanation or defense for the obvious malfeasance Fox was/is perpetrating on the American public. You may think that most people know that Fox is a right wing nutjob channel, but that is simply not true. As seen from the ratings (that are dropping thank god) many people believe this bullshit is indeed fact.
June 3, 2009 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're misreading my remark in bad faith.
"have been working diligently for years, trying to expose Fox for what it is"
That says they aren't all that successful. Most people who watch Outfoxed are already skeptics if not outright antagonists to Fox.
June 4, 2009 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tiller's death isn't hypothetical. It happened and the man responsible worshiped at the twisted alter of Rush O'Hannity and Faux news. You are claiming KO should be held responsible for something that never happened. If such a thing occurred and the perpetrator cited KO or had a history of writing or calling his show, then KO would bear responsibility for his words inciting violence.
These events never happened, so is really a moot point. What is known as a strawman in debate circles.
I am not wearing blinders. I am willing to ignore any "rough language" KO might use to describe factual events. I am not such a wilting flower that the way a message is delivered negates the underlying truth of said message. It's called objectivity. I never had a crush on the modern GOP or DLC, though, so perhaps it is easier for me to maintain a bit of distance between my emotional response to KO emotional appeal. My republican idols go back a lot further than Reagan and Nixon and the Bush Twins.
I think perhaps you should consider that the only blinders in place are your own.
June 5, 2009 8:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you trying to imply that Roeder had a history of calling or writing into O'Reilly's show?
Of course I am not claiming he should be held responsible for something that didn't happen. But IF Bush got assassinated tomorrow, Olbermann would be just as responsible for that killing as O'Reilly was for Tiller's death. (i.e. neither of them would be responsible)
June 5, 2009 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, responsible as in he should go to jail and culpable as in he played a part in creating the environment are two different arguments. Billo is responsible for the incendiary rhetoric he employs to create controversy. You are creating false equivalencies. BO and KO are hardly in the same league of insanity.
June 5, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just saying that BO is not responsible for Tiller's death.
June 5, 2009 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's actually not what you are just saying, but I agree with that statement. Being responsible for the death and bearing some measure of responsiblity are two different things.
June 6, 2009 6:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now you're just mincing words. Responsible can mean having something to do with it or causing it, even if you didn't pull the trigger. Said another way, Scott Roeder would have done what he did even if Bill O'Reilly didn't have a TV show
June 6, 2009 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know that we can say that with any certainty. Perhaps the man would have kept his demons under firmer control. Perhaps he would have never had a specific target brought to his attention. The infortainers on the right hammer on this shit day in and day out. Ad nauseum. Seemingly without thought for the potential consequences of their words. It's all about ratings.
I did not mince words. O'Reilly, if he was a man, would admit that his words had horrific and unintended consequence and show an ounce of remorse at even the vaguest change that his words might have been involved in any way, shape or form with a murdered doctor that he chronicled on his show with very charged language.
I would think even a casual look at the available historical record of this story would show a reckless indifference to the consequences at the very least. Crazy people doing shit because of the TV is hardly new.
June 6, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The infortainers on the right hammer on this shit day in and day out. Ad nauseum. Seemingly without thought for the potential consequences of their words. It's all about ratings."
If you replace "right" with "left" and fix your typo with "infortainers", then you are describing Olbermann perfectly. Thanks for that perfect description of Keith. Couldn't have said it better myself.
June 6, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except, of course, Olbermann hasn't actually had someone offed because of something he said. Again, weaving false equivalencies are not honest debate.
Otherwise, I agree that the left commentators can be as hidebound and immovable as their right-leaning counterparts. It is the degree to which any semblance of common sense is removed from the equation that remains higher on the right-hand side as of right now. Perhaps that will change if the right can actually find something to believe in rather than hating the left.
Again, a distinction you seem consistently reluctant to acknowledge. Or any distinction at all for that matter.
June 7, 2009 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What proof do you have that the killer was influenced by Fox or O'Reilly? Did he say that he did it because of what he watched on that channel or what O'Reilly said?
June 7, 2009 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You'd have to go back through all the reporting to find exact dates and times for examples. I saw a couple reports inflammatory remarks posted on right-leaning blogs as well as the Faux News blogs about his agreement with Billo's rants. All things being equal, perhaps this clown doesn't snap without goading by right-wing bloviators.
June 7, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did he say that he did it because of what Bill O'Reilly said on his show? I don't think you can blame O'Reilly unless the killer says that O'Reilly or Fox somehow influenced him. You can't assume just because Bill spoke out against Tiller that that caused the killer to go after Tiller. Same way I can't assume that Olbermann's rants would cause someone to go after Bush or Cheney
June 7, 2009 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you just excuse any behavior then without the smoking gun of the crazy fucker saying: "Bill O'Reilly made me do it."
Billo didn't just "speak out" against Tiller. He condemned the man, compared him to Nazis and said someone should "do something" about his rampage of death and destruction. His "murder for hire" needed to be stopped. You are giving the man much more credit for equanimity than he has ever shown.
I guess it is OK when its "your side" saying crazy shit that leads to someone's death. By postulating hypothetically equivalent violent acts, the whole thing becomes a wash. I see that today's "conservatives" can have zero standards of conduct and the same situational ethics they accuse democrats of using to "destroy" the country.
Hypocrisy on the right is no more attractive than it is on the left.
June 7, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not being hypocritical - I am treating O'Reilly and Olbermann equally. I wouldn't accuse Olbermann of causing Bush's death if somebody tomorrow decided to assassinate Bush. Even though Olbermann has condemned Bush, called for his prosecution and threw out analogies to Hitler and the Nazis (among other things). Sounds familiar to your description of O'Reilly's statements. They both afterall need to boost their ratings and say very unfortunate and inflammatory things.
I don't have any reasonable basis to think that O'Reilly is either responsible for Tiller's death or had any influence on Roeder. Even without a "smoking gun" there's no reasonable set of facts that would lead someone to conclude that Roeder must have learned about Tiller and made his final decision to kill the man because of what he saw on O'Reilly's TV show. I don't even know if Roeder watched Fox or if he told anyone that he was influenced by O'Reilly.
What we DO know is Roeder has been nuts for a lot longer than O'Reilly decided to start speaking out against Tiller on national TV. Over 10 years ago he was arrested with bomb materials and went to jail. We know that he reached out to Operation Rescue back in 2007 (and possibly earlier) to inquire about Tiller. We also know that Operation Rescue, which is based in Kansas, has been actively focusing on Tiller since 2002.
June 7, 2009 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have heard more than one story describe the guy as an avid Fox viewer, who loved Billo and couldn't get enough of Rush. Someone who was an active commenter on both of their websites and called into both of their radio shows. Without the corrosive influence of nationally-recognized figures of authority, there is a chance Roeder might not have tipped over the edge. Or maybe he was a ticking time-bomb and was simply waiting to go off.
This is a ridiculous conversation, though, because your level of proof is ridiculous in order to start knocking heads. There is a clear trend from Bill (and others on the right-wing talk circuit) making huge waves over a period of a few years to this Tiller's death. It was a custom-made chance to feed one of the right's most sacred cows. We will never know exactly what caused the guy to snap, but that doesn't O'Reilly isn't responsible for the content of his broadcasts. He should pay some sort of penalty, if only being made to stop using the over-the-top language he uses on Fox.
Comparing O'Reilly's language and Olbermann is not reasonable no matter how many time you make the claim. No credible, third-party observer would compare the two broadcasts and come to that conclusion. At worst, KO gets a little too High & Mighty Liberal Warrior for me at times, but he is hardly in the same category of disgusting as Billo and Rush. Not a single one of his broadcasts has ever risen to even the most mild of demagoguery on the right side of the dial.
Those two (and Hannity and Ssvage and the rest) are in a league of their own when it comes to vicious slander that has yet to be really help accountable. They are also the worst ambassadors the right could have ever chosen to carry the banner. Just more moral ambiguity and flexible standards when it comes to holding "leaders" accountable in the GOP. The right is too busy getting the FCC to fine CBS $500K for a half-second glimpse of Janet Jackson's tit. Imus gets booted for calling some young women a derogatory name a single time.
Hypocritical doesn't begin to explain it. Pretending that this is a black and white issue continues to ensure we never address all the various shades of gray as we determine causality for our immense problems and design solutions to address them.
June 8, 2009 6:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree on this one and move on.
June 8, 2009 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep.
June 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if you actually find some evidence that shows how Roeder was influenced by O'Reilly or Fox, please pass it on. I'm interested to see it.
June 8, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK.
June 9, 2009 6:15 AM | Reply | Permalink