Some Thoughts on torture and Law Enforcement
I expect that every country that ever existed has sponsored or engaged in torture on some level. Every since the U S has engaged with Central America it as done so with torture as one of its tactics and methods. Most often, in the case of the U S, torture has been carried out one step removed by agents we have trained and otherwise supported. Every single President starting with Carter, and most before, are guilty of sponsoring and/or supporting interventions which used torture as one of its methods to control other populations. The School of the Americas trained soldiers who went back to their own countries and used torture to dominate their own countrymen.
There are those who consider themselves reasonably well informed about the state and nature of our country who are extremely upset that the Bush administration used, and justified, and continues to justify, torture. I would ask them for a little introspection as to why it is just now a problem to them that they see in such absolutist terms, terms that threaten to make the perfect the enemy of the possible good. I see, of coarse, that part of the reason is that the Bush administration has tried to make torture legal policy that is accepted by the American people as right and necessary. They have many who agreed all along and many converts. As the subject is addressed these people will talk more about it and mostly to people who agree with them. Their feelings will be solidified and they will bring others into their fold. I think the balance in the numbers game will go the way of defending the torturers if the whole thing is not handled with intelligence and finesse.
I believe that when a person has a vested interest in defending or selling an idea, and that person expends mental energy to argue for that idea, that they are very likely to convince themselves that their arguments are correct even if they did not initially believe so or if they initially had no strong opinion one way or the other, and even if their arguments are not good ones. Psychological tests have indicated that this is true.
Even as it is easier to get the citizens of a country to accept the demonetization of peoples of other countries so as to get them to sponsor and approve of the killing of those people than it is to get those same citizens to look those people in the eye and pull the trigger, the acceptance and utility of torture of people that even "might" be terrorists can be sold to many of our friends and neighbors who would never be inclined to commit torture themselves. It obviously has been. Many have become willing to let their brave public servants and heroic soldiers do that dirty work for them, just please don't show us the pictures. This is the most important thing to correct.
I believe completely that it is correct that torture is not an effective tactic to gain reliable information. Speaking strictly from a pragmatic point of view and not even considering the lawlessness and immorality of torture, I believe it hurts our country's cause to carry out torture much more than it could ever help. That said, I also believe it is very poor strategy in the fight to outlaw, and stop, and prevent, future torture and to bring torturers to justice, to insist that it "never" gains valuable information. It probably has done so at some point or other.
As well as I know that I would lie or do most anything else to stop myself from being tortured, I also know that I would give up the truth that would hurt my country to make it stop. Consider that we, even most of us who thought that the invasion was both wrong and stupid when it was being promoted, probably believed that Saddam had "some" WMD program. Now consider how much our case for the criminality of starting that war would be damaged if there had been found, for instance, even one small active program or one small cache of nerve gas,. We shouldn't set the stage for anyone to claim that because they were slightly and occasionally right in one claim of utility in the execution of what they claimed to be a just cause that they were then justified in using any means to achieve their ends regardless of the legality or morality of their methods.
We also should not condemn an argument as completely invalid just because it is wrongly used as a rationalization and the described situation is extremely rare. The ticking time bomb argument, though used wrongly as a common case, could conceivably be correct at some point. Such a situation could come about. Could we not then expect that there would be people knowledgeable enough and brave enough to do what would be necessary even if illegal. If they were right in their assessment, or had damned good reason to believe they were, that the situation was that grave, could they not expect to be pardoned for doing what was necessary. As a policy this could probably not be formalized but it could certainly be known as the unspoken law. Make it the law, if it is not already, that every pardon must be publicly acknowledged along with the crime that was pardoned.
I believe that the proper sequence and hierarchy of action in persuit of results that are both valuable and possible is extremely important. If the pursuit of one desired goal, like the imprisonment of those who are responsible for justifying torture ,makes the successful realization of another more important goal less likely or even impossible then we must choose which is more important.
I have commented here before that I believe it would be better to let G. Bush walk the streets as an unconvicted criminal who was known and believed by most Americans to have been a criminal in his actions as POTUS than to make him a martyr to half the country who would conjure reasons to defend him and thus his actions and then come to believe, if they didn't already, that his actions were necessary and right because those actions protected the lives of our soldiers and "saved" the country from attack. Those people may come to power with a vengeance someday, maybe soon. If we are perceived to have our first goal convicting Bush rather than finding the truth and then doing whatever the revealed facts indicate, then I think we will lose the war even if we win a few battles along the way.
The first and most important thing is to stop the bleeding. Obama says torture has been halted. I believe that the next most important thing is to make it clear to as broad a scope of the American public as possible that what was done was shameful and despicable and that those at the top who caused these things to be done are despicable people so misguided that they seem unable to feel shame for what they have done or to understand how much damage they have done to our country. While I feel an urge towards revenge and punishment for those who are guilty, I also feel that it is much more important that our country learn a lesson than that we teach Bush and Chaney a lesson.
I believe that if Obama is seen to be leading an attack with the purpose of sending Bush and Chaney to prison for war crimes it will cause a tremendous and very damaging divide within our country. I expect that he believes this too. Just look at the nature and tactics of the opposition to what he has done in regards to this subject and the number of people who agree.
To believe that "right" always conquers evil is to be extremely naive. Like in chess, to attack the queen before establishing a strong strategic position is to invite defeat. The strategic position we should strive for is the strong weight of public opinion.
Precedent of actions by former POTUS are given very strong weight when the Constitutionality and/or criminality of a current POTUS actions are considered. For that reason I am in complete agreement with everybody who thinks that we should look back and establish that what was done was wrong and illegal and in violation of the Constitution, but for a newly elected President to take office with the majority of his own party controlling both houses of congress and to be perceived to be leading the attack to criminalize the immediate predecessor's actions would set a very bad and dangerous precedent. This would be especially true when so many of the Presidents party in Congress supported at least some of the wrongs that the former President did. Also, in this case, so many former Presidents presided over governments that conducted or facilitated or condoned, or otherwise supported torture.
Obama will not be able to serve effectively as President without breaking, at least technically, some, laws, be they domestic or international, or defined by treaty. In fact, I believe it can be shown that he already has. We have seen the lengths to which the Republicans in power will go to demonize and remove from office a President whom they despise and fear.
My vote is for investigations that will get out the most information and inform the public of both the nature and actions of the torturers and those who are responsible for the torture becoming policy.
Obama has said that those following orders will not be convicted. Does that stop Congress from investigating and causing those deemed guilty to stand trial? Would Obama preemptively pardon them? If he were to do so after conviction it would be, in the broad scope of things, OK by me. Even if he preemptively pardoned Bush and Chaney could he prevent Congress from taking sworn testimony from any and all involved parties? If it came to a trial of Chaney, for instance, how long would the investigation leading up to charges take? How long before a trial would be set? How many decisions going to the SCOTUS about executive privilege and National security? How many legal arguments about the definition of torture?
Torture is a lot like pornography, hard to define in absolute and objective terms but easier to identify when seen and no doubt obvious as hell when experienced, though the line still falls in different places for different people. Can anyone define torture in a legal way which would not leave a thousand other ways to make a person suffer beyond their capacity to resist.
I am not sure just how this fits but I want to include a short anecdote. A friend, when in his early twenties, once had the door to his rural house kicked in by plain clothed cops. They jerked him and his younger girlfriend out of bed and made them both stand nude in the middle of the room while they ransacked his house and ogled his girlfriend and made crude remarks. After finding nothing but a gun that they stole, no killer weed, they told my friend that they were going to ask him questions and that they knew some of the answers. They then put a phone book on his head and every so often after an answer they hit it hard with their billy clubs. Never left a mark one, but he puked for a couple of days after. The last thing before leaving, one of the cops reached out and pinched one of the crying girl's nipples and while holding it he asked her how she would like for her mother and dad to find out that she was "slutting around with a dope head".
Sorry that this is so disjointed and rambles so much. My computer was recently murdered and I am posing from the library for the time being. It is only opened two hours in the morning and three in the afternoon. If this blog prompts replies I will not likely be able to join the conversation until tomorrow and then only for a short while.