Okay Let Me Get This Straight...
Obama and his administration are against pissing off the Republicans with a public option, so he's holding tight onto Olympia Snowe.
He feels that holding her tightly will win him a bipartisan victory on healthcare.
He feels that he needs her because otherwise six or seven of those asshat Blue Dogs will turn coat, and we won't get the vote.
The public option is this close to being an opt out, as in, Obama will opt out of doing anything spectacular.
Have I got it right so far?
And, if so....how is this any different than the Right, so far?
He feels that holding her tightly will win him a bipartisan victory on healthcare.
He feels that he needs her because otherwise six or seven of those asshat Blue Dogs will turn coat, and we won't get the vote.
The public option is this close to being an opt out, as in, Obama will opt out of doing anything spectacular.
Have I got it right so far?
And, if so....how is this any different than the Right, so far?
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I'll just add to this by saying, I have no regrets about any money, hope, or other efforts I gave to Obama during his campaign, and I still hope I got this wrong.
Call me naive. Hell, I'm a kid in pigtails, it's not like I don't know it already.
But...shit. We need so much more than bipartisanship right now.
And it ain't like we're gonna get it no way no how, anyhow.
So...wtf?
October 25, 2009 7:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to realize that he'll never get bipartisanship from the Republicans. It's simply not in their best interest.
The GOP doing everything that they can to make America suffer for the next four years, so they can mount a campaign saying it was Obama's fault.
Obama needs to recognize that he's dealing with insurrectionists. What is good for America, is bad for the GOP.
Hey, that sounds like an article!
October 25, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liz, would you prefer the bad ole daz of Bu$h, Cheney and the republicans run the country for the last 8 years? I think not.
I think we've made significant progress so far, but we haven't finished walking across the bridge yet. We have to get across to the other side before we can claim any victories. Obama and Biden just got us on the bridge...we have to walk across it - can't let others do it for us.
Bipartisanship is the big stickler, alright. And I understand Obama prefers, as a community organizer, not to leave anyone behind so the victory is for everyone, not just a selected few (as Bu$h and the republicans always did).
Unfortunately, Obama has to come to grips there are some people not willing to walk across the bridge - they fear what they do not know or understand, and conflicts with their perception of right and wrong.
I understand the need to bring everyone together, but there will come a time when Obama must press forward and leave people behind - those who prefer to sit it out and refuse to accept the world as they know it does change in ways they may not appreciate.
The faster Obama comes to grips with the opposition he faces from the republicans, the sooner we can expect the ball to start rolling faster. It's this Come-to-Jesus meeting between Obama and the republicans we are waiting for.
October 25, 2009 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
What Obama prefers is to have the illusion of consensus and to please his corporate buddies. Did you know one of his best friends (who spent the week with him on Martha's Vineyard) is the head of USB Bank in North America? Starts to make the giveaway to the banks make more sense doesn't it?
October 25, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just out of morbid curiosity, who are Obama's corporate buddies?
October 25, 2009 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Wall Street interests that dumped bucket loads of money into his campaign, the insurance insterests who did the same, big pharma. It's a pretty long list but Wall Street leads the way. It's pretty self evident when you look at the campaign finance reports or you can go to any number of sites that breakdown where the contributions are coming form by industry, etc..
October 25, 2009 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It already IS bipartisan! Berny Sanders is for it, and he's not a dem! I can hardly believe that he is pushing back on this. There are some who say it is strategic, but I'm not sure. Elsewhere, Josh wrote this (sorry, I couldn't permalink for some reason):
October 25, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
We're not getting a lot of what we want. I try to remind myself that there is, nonetheless, one big difference between our time and their time: healthcare is on the table now. It's the topic of discussion. If the Republicans were in power they'd just ignore it.
October 25, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now, there you have hit upon the difference between Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans have a ruthless right wing agenda and they sell it every second 24/7/365 and take no prisoners enacting every bullet point every chance they get.
Democrats talk about being progressive someday maybe if it doesn't hurt the feelings of "moderates" and Republicans and to enact this maybe someday but conservative now agenda, they put triggers in bills to at some unspecified time in the future trigger the Wizard of Oz to do something progressive maybe.
October 25, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
So get the left wing fired up like the right wing is, and we too can be a party on the verge of disintegrating. Yippee! A four party system...just what we need!
October 25, 2009 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
If we replaced the two we have both sides and the American people would be better off. Fine with me to add two more parties. Just give me a choice other than more war, more billionaire bailouts for the financial industry (which of course includes health insurance companies). We are being bipartisanly looted. We aren't citizens anymore. We are Neo-Serfs.
October 25, 2009 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Was it not Whitman who said: "We do not ride on the railroads. The railroads ride on us!"
The more things change...
October 25, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo!
October 25, 2009 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know if the Prez forgot how to count, or if Rahm's spiked his cigarettes.
Let's suppose that 50 Ds and 1 R vote for the final package in the Senate.
Is that what our constitutional scholar president thinks the country will call "bipartisan?" Does he think getting Oly Snowe's vote is the same thing as "not pissing off Republicans?"
Whoosh. Maybe, as Josh intimates in CVille Dem's quote, there's some super-secret back room deal going on. Or maybe not.
Let's be clear. If a good, strong health care package passes, somebody's going to be pissed. The question for the administration is, do you want a bunch of pissed-off Republicans, or a bunch of pissed-off Democrats.
Cause you can't have it both ways.
October 25, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Red Planet -- Voice of sanity, clear thinking/speaking. For some reason, I think you're new. But maybe I've just missed your insights. In any case, thanks.
October 25, 2009 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is fast running out of time to show he has a clue to how the fundamentals of our democracy have been shredded.
Just for starters he could acknowledge that for fifty plus years we had a financial regulatory scheme that worked fine. And then ask the why what and who questions for which we changed it? And then put it back in an actual operational state. He can probaly do the first two in a one hour address to the country. The another hour for congress to strike all the screw up prior to 1999.
October 25, 2009 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am done extending the president a very positive benefit of the doubt and making up hypothesis to protect my desire to have a positive view of him.
It's not all that hard to be better than Bush and Cheney. In fact just about any president is going to look good compared to that destructive duo.
I feel much more reserved and ready to take on even the president if he continues to demonstrate that he is going to work against the best interest of the people and that he is not going to stand for all that I came to believe he would stand for.
I will reserve my judgement until I know what is going on but right now he and his staff are in the dog house as far as I'm concerned.
I will keep focusing on congress regarding health care reform. My reps are all on board for a public option. Reid has a lot of pressure in his state to pass a public option and he is facing re-election. He has gained a reputation of being 'weak'. If Reid makes the public option happen... he will gain some ground.
I am going to be writing my reps about restructuring the makeup of the finance committee and replacing Baucus as Chairman. I would love it if he were not running the show there on every bill.
October 25, 2009 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I guess I get a little tired, too, of this meme that says "Obama is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers," only to see him continuously take a soccer ball square in the face.
We started out with a health care reform act. We watched it get twisted into a "Health Insurance Profit Enhancement & Protection Act." This didn't happen by mistake. And Obama's subtle undermining of the public option - which has occurred from the very beginning of this process - certainly raises questions about whose interests he is serving.
Call me skeptical. Corporate & Wall Street ownership of our government is as strong as it has ever been. Obama didn't invent corruption in Washington, but it sure looks like he's been taught how to play the game.
Unfortunately, one look at our economy (jobless "recovery;" Champagne Celebrations on Wall Street) and this Health Insurance giveaway and the continuing wars tells us that we simply cannot afford these bastards anymore.
October 25, 2009 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
October 25, 2009 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aye mate!
What we need is a great uprising.
October 25, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
We live in a different world now than we did back in the days when Presidents could strong arm people into doing what he wants. If he did that now, it would be on the front page, the airwaves and the blogospere so fast it would make your head spin.
I think a determination has been made by this administration, that a healthcare bill needs to be passed, even if it isn't a great one, in order to get anything else done, and that in order to have any credibility he needs at least 1 repub on board.
I despise that the repubs, as the minority party, have this much power, and I especially hate that 1 person, ONE PERSON, has the ability to decide whether this country gets healthcare reform at all.
But, politics is what it is. And Obama is who he is. We knew it when we elected him. But we like to think somehow, that he would be someone different when he got in office. If we wanted a ram rod, we should have elected Hilary. We wanted someone who would lead us into a better way of governing. I don't think we realized how resistant the repubs would be to changing the way we do business in this country. I know I didn't. I had no idea they would be so brazen.
Sometimes it pays to remember that the things that make us care so much about a person, are the very things that drive us the craziest. As pissed off as I want to be that he isn't coming out guns blazing, he isn't a blazing guns kinda guy. And in reality, I DO want to see if he can usher in a new way of governing.
I go back and forth on this. Some days I want to throw in the towel and forget about politics all together...just admit we're screwed (which is probably closer to the truth.) But other days, I feel strong, and willing to accept that sometimes good things happen in increments. Today I feel strong.
This is closer than we have ever been. Destor is right. If the repubs were in office, we wouldn't be talking about this.
October 25, 2009 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pass a bad bill so he can get anything else done? Like what sending tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan and funneling more billions to Larry Summer's "unintended beneficiaries" (fat cats) on Wall Street?
I don't want to get anything else done because there is nothing else he's doing that I support anyway.
October 25, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
So have you picked out who you plan on supporting in 2012 yet? I suggest you start working on it now.
October 25, 2009 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe I'll write in Paul:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/25/796925/-Remembering-Paul-Wellstone-On-This-Day
October 25, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ron Paul has some strange beliefs. What about the Greens?
October 25, 2009 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I recommend Rep. Weiner for Prez in 2012.
October 26, 2009 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm actually pretty optimistic these days. We're far closer to a serious public option passing than I'd expected.
If the 'opt-out' version passes, I'll be opening the champagne. Whether Obama is helping or hurting the effort, I don't know or care. But we're soooo close! Keep the faith.
October 25, 2009 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this point, there are extensive negotiations underway to get 60 Senate votes (all Democrats) for an opt-out public option. A few additional concessions may be necessary, but the prospects are good.
Obama is wisely refraining from public dogmatizing, which would be counterproductive, but it would be surprising if the White House is not participating in the negotiations.
With or without a public option, the proposed bills make a good start toward robust healthcare reform, but only a start, because the extensive restructuring of the healthcare system needed to alter the current trajectory of increasing unaffordability is only addressed in small measure. Much more will be needed if we truly hope to make high quality healthcare affordable for all in the coming years.
October 25, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
All very wise. But we'll get a public option, Doc. Just watch and you'll see.
October 25, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know you're optimistic, OR, and I hope you're right. But is the public option you think will pass one that is available to everyone? Or will it only be available to a limited risk pool of those unable to get coverage any other way?
October 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmmm!
Well, I do not think it will be exactly either. But more like the first one, for "all" although states will have some say. To me, this is becoming more and more popular, although people were horrified by the tea partying mobs, and heard them out. And the more you listen and reflect and gather information and give them chances to clarify, the clearer it is: they are industry stooges acting against the common good. There's no other conclusion. So I think the option will lean to the inclusive side, and extreme states like Wyoming can probably opt out. We'll see pretty soon, I suppose!
Thanks for convo, Red Planet!
October 26, 2009 4:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, Fred. Of all the things that Obama has said about health care, the only one that actually made me laugh out loud was when he expressed his desire to be the "last" president to deal with health care.
Our society has barely begun to address the profound ethical challenges involved in how we provide and allocate health care.
October 25, 2009 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The answer to your question is that it isn't a whole lot different from the right. We have one party in this country, as Gore Vidal once said, the party of property. In short, we the people are, once again, getting screwed.
October 25, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The answer is that the whole story is sensational anon-sourced drivel. The media tells us to jump, and we ask "to which conclusion"?
The blogosphere has become prisoners of access. Without resources to investigate, and without the courage to name sources, we are being led by our noses to conclusions that appeal to our pre-conceived notions.
If you read between the lines, Josh, Digby, Ben Smith and others are admitting that they don't know the truth. But they insist on framing the discussion around their ill-informed assumptions. "I don't know if this is true, but if it is" has become the mantra of partisan journalism. Then the audience laps it up and assumes the worst and then demands that Obama assuage their fears. If Obama had to answer every damned rumor that has been whispered by the Politicos and HuffPosts of the world, he would have no other job. His admin's main responsibility would be whack-a-mole.
This kind of anon-sourced hokum is for revenue. It is a cheap and easy way to keep us reading. It is no better than Fox.
The health care negotiations are ongoing, and only named sources should be trusted. Everyone is keeping their cards against their chest because this not only about reform, it is a power struggle. If anything, this yellow chum is serving to separate the committed from the apathetic.
October 25, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, well, if it's a power struggle, I can certainly understand why none of us are in the room.
October 25, 2009 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo.
So why is the left-leaning media settling for scraps of access, and why are progressives content with anonymous speculation?
Plato had an allegory about this predicament.
The collapse of journalism has been filled by entertainment and controversy mamagement. It is as if firefighters started fires in order to be praised for putting them out.
In my opinion, Josh Marshall has lately squandered what reputation he established. I am only here now for the conversation. It is only a matter of time where this site will slide downward as the drive for ad revenue displaces audience, and more cutesy features and nontroversy specialists are brought in... And it will be little different from the corporate media.
October 25, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Progressives got content when they stopped having the fortitude to call themselves liberals.
October 25, 2009 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it were only a matter of belief, I would believe myself taller. If it were only a matter of semantics, I would change my name to Brad Pitt.
October 25, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Way off topic, but:
Medicare: we know it works. Give it to everyone. Pay for it with a progressively designed value added tax. The electorate will reward you.
Nah…way too easy. See if we can make this as complicated and prone to failure as possible, allowing untold death, sickness and ruin for thousands with disastrous results at the polls. Yeah!
I'm all for a public option, but it's not going to have much of an effect.
October 25, 2009 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
But in the form they propose it, it will serve as the excuse for doing nothing to assist the common people for years to come. "Well let's give the public option some time..."
October 25, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
... but of course Obama took that off the table before negotiations even started. Thanks so much, Barack!
October 25, 2009 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I never thought Obama anything but a centrist, nothing has surprised me, although, some things are better than I expected.
I voted for the President because no matter what, he is miles above and beyond what the alternative was.
He sold the population on hope, and he can't take that away. I look for the little things, and they are improving, the big issues too mired in politics to be anything but that.
Yet, little by little the President is undoing the damage done. When I look at where we were a year ago, I am amazed at the progress. International relations, internet freedom, our environment, all are getting better in small but important steps. The momentum has shifted, and we have a ways to go, but at least we are headed in the right direction, finally.
Perhaps, in our impatience over large matters, we do not give enough credit to how much better things are, and are getting.
That is not to say we should drop the pressure, we should not. One thing the President has said over and over and over--even last week--is that he can not do it without us. So be impatient, be disappointed, but don't forget to take a step back every now and then and take a deep breath.
Yes. We. Can.
October 25, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, my point precisely.
October 25, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think too many people miss the days of the campaign where Obama had the time to answer every rumor, criticism or attack. He was able to assure us on a daily basis. He can't do that anymore and people are frustrated that they don't know what's going on and at this point will take any insider information they can get.
I know the Left despises this word, but you need to be patient - which is not to be confused with passiveness. Congress is slow to begin with and this is a major major piece of legislation. It doesn't make any sense to think that he isn't working hard to achieve his top campaign promise. It doesn't make political sense for any candidate to talk about health care reform almost every day of their campaign and then go ho-hum on the project once in office.
October 25, 2009 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's hard to remember sometimes that the White House is situated within the Beltway, too, and its occupants are subject to the same idiocies that the rest of the city believes. One of these foolish sayings is that it is "wrong" for fundamental changes of the sort envisioned here to become law by the vehicle of only one party.
I might accept this view is there were two actual functioning political parties. If, for instance, we were in an era where a Democratic Party controlled Congress was considering the proposals of a president from the same party and, say Senators Javits, Percy and Case expressed difficulty in voting for it; if Governors Rockefeller, Scranton, Romney (the father) thought the bill was unwise as drafted and made suggestions about how to change it, even if Senator Dirksen expressed a concern or too, I would question whether it was such a good idea to force the bill to passage.
We are not in that era, though, even if we wish we were or long for those days where political divisions were sometimes more North and South than Democratic/Republican. Today, North and South IS Democratic/Republican for the most part and there is only one party interested in the whether proposed legislation is a good idea or not. The other party has decided that if the New Deal ushered in 50 years of almost blanket control of Congress, any new New Deal must be resisted at all costs.
Obviously, President Roosevelt worked with a Congress more heavily Democratic than this one, although many of those Democrats were southerners who did not favor social programs, much as they do not do so today, but as part of the Republican Party. When conservative Democrats opposed aspects of the New Deal, President Roosevelt supported others to run against them but, since most of those efforts were unsuccessful, the Official Wisdom of the Beltway Class (even before there actually was a "beltway") was that he ought not to have done that.
I would bet anything that if he could be brought back to life (I have stared hard at his headstone several times, but it has not worked) he would advise anyone who asked to do the same thing. The point is not necessarily to beat faux Democrats such as Ben Nelson (though if Chuck Hagel decided to go back to the Senate by running against him, it would be hard to support Nelson) but to scare them into some level of progressivism.
October 25, 2009 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink